[StackinGreen]

They act like he's a great QB and we should buy it when he's not even top 5 in the league. Is he a good QB? Sure, but this is a dream season with a dream defense. The story was the same when video numbers went up in his rookie season, everyone said all the same stuff, and then he went and hid for a few years ...

Why haven't we learned that you can look great for a while, but we should be very careful about crowning players, especially QBs (Kaep, Griffin, Cam 1st year) before they show us undeniable long term production?

Check this out, before this year:

http://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com...panthers-money

[MarcusPaige]

He's in his 5th year. He's made the playoffs the last 3 after taking over a 2-14 team. They average 31.3 points a game. The dude can take over a game BY HIMSELF like no other QB I have ever seen. Haters gonna hate. The guy not only top 5 but probably the best QB in the NFL right now.

[StackinGreen]

So you agree he's not top 5, then. Good. Don't you think the media coverage is all of a sudden suggesting that he is, easily?

I'm not hating on anything. I'm living in the real world. If he does well, great for Cam. I'm just saying, look at those stats before this year, from 2011-2014. Notice that Brady and Rodgers teams are 1-2? Cam is dead last.

Just like his first year, let's not crown them until they PROVE that they are great.

[POOLSIDE]

Best qb in the league? Lolololol.

[StackinGreen]

Best qb in the league? Lolololol.

Wow, notice how I read fast and thought he agreed not top 5 ... omg, just realized with your post that he said BEST?

No wonder there is all sorts of twitter gathering for the sports media, some people are just clueless.

[MarcusPaige]

Wow, notice how I read fast and thought he agreed not top 5 ... omg, just realized with your post that he said BEST?

No wonder there is all sorts of twitter gathering for the sports media, some people are just clueless.

So who are you saying is better?

[StackinGreen]

I'll stay serious in this thread until you take it to ridiculous, but I'll keep an open mind and listen to your response.

First question, and this is the question par-excellence for determining the best QB:

You know nothing about your team. You need to win a game next Sunday. The only position you get to choose is QB. In order to win that game tomorrow, who do you choose?

1. Rodgers
2. Brady
3. Roethlisberger
4. Romo
5. Brees

(As an aside, I believe 1-2-3 there are in a class of their own that Romo doesn't quite make, and Brees is just a bit too old for)

THEN

6. Wilson
7. Newton
8. Palmer

[POOLSIDE]

So who are you saying is better?

Is this a joke? Off the top of my head.

Brady
Rodgers
Wilson
Big Ben
Luck (when he's healthy, obviously)


Plus there are a whole bunch of guys that are right in Cam's range, and are totally debatable but would ultimately come down to personal opinion.

[StackinGreen]

haha, I forgot about Luck ... shows you what injuries do ... I'd still keep him lower than I think he'd ultimately be for the same reason I keep Cam low = they haven't been around doing it for long enough

(but I think you're crazy if you would choose Cam over Luck based on anything, to this day, apart from injuries)

[POOLSIDE]

I also think you'd be crazy to take Romo or Brees (at this age) over Wilson, but at least these things are debatable. Cam is just silly. I really hope he doesn't make the argument that those other guys aren't in the Super Bowl blah blah. I guess that one year, Trent Dilfer was obviously the best qb in the league. Brad Johnson too.

[MarcusPaige]

Seems like you guys don't really care too much about durability since half of your great quarterbacks spent half the season in a hospital bed while Cam has missed two games his entire career.

[MarcusPaige]

Wilson sure looked great last two seasons in playoffs huh. Put up 10 whole points against the Vikings and down 31-0 at half to Panthers. And lets not forget the idiotic interception to blow the Super Bowl. He sure deserves to be ranked above Cam.

[MarcusPaige]

Wait, wait, I get it. You guys are saying that anyone with a receiving core like Ted Ginn, Corey Brown, Jericho Cotchery and Devin Funchess could throw for 4000 yards and 35 touchdowns with only 10 interceptions. Right?

[POOLSIDE]

Okay, this is fast approaching too stupid to continue discussing. I'll give it one last shot.

No one is saying that Cam didn't have a great season or that he's not the mvp. Stackin and I are simply saying he isn't the best quarterback. That's all. And he's not. At all. Not even close. To try and make an argument that Cam is better than Brady or Rodgers is insane. I don't care what the numbers were this year. Those guys are better quarterbacks. Cam's only advantage over either of them is his ability to run. They're both better, smarter, more accurate passers. They have a better sense of the pocket. They can read defenses much better.

I personally think Russell is better than Cam as well. If you're going to try and discredit him because of a weird play in the Super Bowl, you're an idiot. He almost won back to back super bowls. You can't say shit to that except that he made a questionable throw on a questionable play call at the one yard line. Okay dude, yeah he sucks. Then you want to reference the third coldest game in the history of the nfl as a reliable metric? Those guys played that game in literally life threatening conditions and Russell still managed to have one of the top ten plays of the nfl season. As for the Carolina game, they got whooped. It happens. The 10am start time three time zones away didn't help, but Carolina won that game fair and square. I guess you also had Alex Smith above Tom Brady after the Pats got their shit pushed in by KC last season?

I can can play this game too. Remind me how many times a Cam team has missed the playoffs? Okay, and how many times has a Wilson team missed the playoffs or even lost in the first round? Oh so Cam has one good year in his career? Cool story.

Stackin's scenario rings truest to me. You've got one game. The remainder of your roster will be picked at random. You won't know who's on your team until after you draft a qb. The other team will be hand picked. Your life and the life of everyone you love is on the line, you'll all die if your team loses the football game. Who are you drafting? If you can say Cam, I don't see how I can believe you.

[StackinGreen]

Seems like you guys don't really care too much about durability since half of your great quarterbacks spent half the season in a hospital bed while Cam has missed two games his entire career.

He's 26. Look at the stats I put up 2011-14. Please respond.

[StackinGreen]

Wait, wait, I get it. You guys are saying that anyone with a receiving core like Ted Ginn, Corey Brown, Jericho Cotchery and Devin Funchess could throw for 4000 yards and 35 touchdowns with only 10 interceptions. Right?

No, it's a fair point and I take it into consideration, BUT

I am saying a QB who starts with 3rd best average starting field position is at a HUGE advantage, even if he's an average QB.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/panthers/st...led-by-defense

Look at my list. The reason why Kaep fizzled and I don't rank Wilson THAT high is because of the same reason (SF had a monster D and running game that Wilson also fell into from draft day --- but Wilson has sustained high play without that totality over and over).

ps - my overall point is still that you have to have sustained, long term success. This has been a great season, but remember ALSO that his division is garbage (ATL, NO, and TB) currently and that the other teams they played totaled 27th, right?

[MarcusPaige]

Okay, this is fast approaching too stupid to continue discussing. I'll give it one last shot.

No one is saying that Cam didn't have a great season or that he's not the mvp. Stackin and I are simply saying he isn't the best quarterback. That's all. And he's not. At all. Not even close. To try and make an argument that Cam is better than Brady or Rodgers is insane. I don't care what the numbers were this year. Those guys are better quarterbacks. Cam's only advantage over either of them is his ability to run. They're both better, smarter, more accurate passers. They have a better sense of the pocket. They can read defenses much better.

I personally think Russell is better than Cam as well. If you're going to try and discredit him because of a weird play in the Super Bowl, you're an idiot. He almost won back to back super bowls. You can't say shit to that except that he made a questionable throw on a questionable play call at the one yard line. Okay dude, yeah he sucks. Then you want to reference the third coldest game in the history of the nfl as a reliable metric? Those guys played that game in literally life threatening conditions and Russell still managed to have one of the top ten plays of the nfl season. As for the Carolina game, they got whooped. It happens. The 10am start time three time zones away didn't help, but Carolina won that game fair and square. I guess you also had Alex Smith above Tom Brady after the Pats got their shit pushed in by KC last season?

I can can play this game too. Remind me how many times a Cam team has missed the playoffs? Okay, and how many times has a Wilson team missed the playoffs or even lost in the first round? Oh so Cam has one good year in his career? Cool story.

Stackin's scenario rings truest to me. You've got one game. The remainder of your roster will be picked at random. You won't know who's on your team until after you draft a qb. The other team will be hand picked. Your life and the life of everyone you love is on the line, you'll all die if your team loses the football game. Who are you drafting? If you can say Cam, I don't see how I can believe you.

They've missed the playoffs twice, in his first two seasons, after he took over a 2-14 team. They've made the playoffs the last three years. And they'll win the super bowl in his fifth year, which is faster than Manning and Rodgers got one.

[POOLSIDE]

They've missed the playoffs twice, in his first two seasons, after he took over a 2-14 team. They've made the playoffs the last three years. And they'll win the super bowl in his fifth year, which is faster than Manning and Rodgers got one.

Well Wilson inherited a team that hadn't had a winning record in four seasons and he's not only taken the to the playoffs every year, but he's also won a Super Bowl, made it that far twice, and has never not made the second round of the playoffs. If we're only talking about bs like this, Cam is comparatively trash. It took him five years to make a Super Bowl? What took him so long lolololol.

Seriously though, Cam hasn't won a Super Bowl yet so let's cut that shit off right now.

[MarcusPaige]

Sure, if I had to have a QB for ONE game, right now, at this very moment in time, I'd take Brady or Rodgers before Cam, but I'd take Cam 3rd. But if I had to pick one QB to build a franchise around right now, I'd pick Cam.

Also, I really don't care how bad the rest of the teams in the South are. Playing Carolina twice doesn't help their record and Carolina's regular season record the last 3 years is 34-13-1.

Their playoff record last three years as of right now is 3-2, soon to be 4-2 with a Super Bowl victory.

I'll have to get back with you on the sustained success thing in a few years, but given that the Panthers went 2-14 the year before he took over, I'm pretty pleased with what has happened his first five years, especially when his best receivers have been a decrepit Steve Smith, a rookie Kelvin Benjamin and TE Greg Olsen.

[MarcusPaige]

Well Wilson inherited a team that hadn't had a winning record in four seasons and he's not only taken the to the playoffs every year, but he's also won a Super Bowl, made it that far twice, and has never not made the scoundrel round of the playoffs. If we're only talking about bs like this, Cam is comparatively trash. It took him five years to make a Super Bowl? What took him so long lolololol.

Seriously though, Cam hasn't won a Super Bowl yet so let's cut that shit off right now.

Wilson is a damn good player. And if you'd rather have him than Cam Newton, myself and every G.M. in the NFL will certainly let you have him and take Cam.