[Swinging Johnson]

First off, I think the offensive line is a huge wild card when comparing one running back to another. I'll take a decent running back with a great offensive line over a great running back with a poor offensive line.

Secondly, I believe most NFL running backs are within a fraction of each other. There are 10% that make a difference and 10% that don't belong. But 80% will all produce about the same given an equally adept offensive line.

Just my opinion boys.

[onlooker]

I agree. O-Line plays a big part, unless your named Barry Sanders.

[Richkas]

some backs have the ability to make something out of nothing....but for the most part...what you said...a average running back with a great offensive line will get you more production than a great RB with a shitty offensive line

[Holtgetsback]

U only left out the most important job, picking up the blitz !

[ttwarrior1]

yep all about the o line

[Swinging Johnson]

I agree. O-Line plays a big part, unless your named Barry Sanders.

[iifold]

Written 363 days ago by your King...

It never goes as planned, I promise you.. So put down the Fantasy football magazine's and close the nfl.com window. The worst thing you can do is "study" for the upcoming football season. You fukks are bored of baseball and now you look to football to revive your "inner gambler". The problem with over analysing football this early is you might make up your mind ("Titans cant stop the pass" or "Texans are over-rated") and not be able to adjust your thinking quick enough during the season. The only chance you have against the books is to adjust quicker than they do. They have the benefit of square action on the other side so they can afford to be a little late to adjust at times, you dont. If you have a clear mind coming in, you can watch the games for what they are the first couple weeks and make up your own mind, with no outside distractions you'll be suprised just how simple football really is at the end of the day.

Simplifying Football

Do yourself a favor, next time you watch a football game, try your hardest to ignore the skill guys. Focus as much as you can (depending on camera angles) on the trenches. Look for the cohesivness and strength of the offensive and defensive lines of each team. Take notes on how each team rushes/protects the passer, stops the run, keeps containment..Look for pure athletic dominance, but also look to see if the line is working as a unit. This will seem weird at first but you will actually get a feel for it and see a dramatic difference when you compare good lines to bad ones.

You have to pay attention to scheme as well, some teams will get continuous pressure on the QB and not take full advantage of it. (Cowboys last year, Youd think with their great defensive line they would get up in receivers faces and create turnovers and havoc on defense, sometimes their D-line and secondary seemed to be on different pages.) You will notice alot of teams playing a "bend but dont break" style of pass defense. This usually happens when they cant get pressure up front. The Raiders had to do this alot a couple years back (Even though they had a top 3 cornerback) and it would baffle me. You either have the guys in the trenches or you dont, it took me a while to realize this.

When you start to break down football from the trenches outward, you will start to understand the game more. You will be so suprised how fast you will be able to spot a good pass defense from a bad one, a team that "cant" run the ball from a team that can at will. Once you start to realize what teams can and cant do, you will be able to predict the outcome of certain matchups. (barring stupid ass fukkin fumbles ) A bad team that relys on running the ball and play action pass will sometimes keep the game suprising close against a good team known for having a great pass rush on defense. Teams with little to no pass rush sometimes do suprisingly well against good running teams by default. These are rather vague examples but Im just trying to make you think more about the trenches and schemes instead of stats and superstars.

So trust the King when I promise you that there isnt much difference between Chad Ochocinco and Jerry Rice.. There isnt much difference between Tom Brady and Matt Schaub.. There isnt much difference between Emmitt Smith and Frank Gore.. What was and is different about these guys was there offensive lines and schemes.. It makes that much of a difference.. dont believe me? just watch.


KING

[Swinging Johnson]

Written 363 days ago by your King... It never goes as planned, I promise you.. So put down the Fantasy football magazine's and close the nfl.com window. The worst thing you can do is "study" for the upcoming football season. You fukks are bored of baseball and now you look to football to revive your "inner gambler". The problem with over analysing football this early is you might make up your mind ("Titans cant stop the pass" or "Texans are over-rated") and not be able to adjust your thinking quick enough during the season. The only chance you have against the books is to adjust quicker than they do. They have the benefit of square action on the other side so they can afford to be a little late to adjust at times, you dont. If you have a clear mind coming in, you can watch the games for what they are the first couple weeks and make up your own mind, with no outside distractions you'll be suprised just how simple football really is at the end of the day. Simplifying Football Do yourself a favor, next time you watch a football game, try your hardest to ignore the skill guys. Focus as much as you can (depending on camera angles) on the trenches. Look for the cohesivness and strength of the offensive and defensive lines of each team. Take notes on how each team rushes/protects the passer, stops the run, keeps containment..Look for pure athletic dominance, but also look to see if the line is working as a unit. This will seem weird at first but you will actually get a feel for it and see a dramatic difference when you compare good lines to bad ones. You have to pay attention to scheme as well, some teams will get continuous pressure on the QB and not take full advantage of it. (Cowboys last year, Youd think with their great defensive line they would get up in receivers faces and create turnovers and havoc on defense, sometimes their D-line and secondary seemed to be on different pages.) You will notice alot of teams playing a "bend but dont break" style of pass defense. This usually happens when they cant get pressure up front. The Raiders had to do this alot a couple years back (Even though they had a top 3 cornerback) and it would baffle me. You either have the guys in the trenches or you dont, it took me a while to realize this. When you start to break down football from the trenches outward, you will start to understand the game more. You will be so suprised how fast you will be able to spot a good pass defense from a bad one, a team that "cant" run the ball from a team that can at will. Once you start to realize what teams can and cant do, you will be able to predict the outcome of certain matchups. (barring stupid ass fukkin fumbles ) A bad team that relys on running the ball and play action pass will sometimes keep the game suprising close against a good team known for having a great pass rush on defense. Teams with little to no pass rush sometimes do suprisingly well against good running teams by default. These are rather vague examples but Im just trying to make you think more about the trenches and schemes instead of stats and superstars. So trust the King when I promise you that there isnt much difference between Chad Ochocinco and Jerry Rice.. There isnt much difference between Tom Brady and Matt Schaub.. There isnt much difference between Emmitt Smith and Frank Gore.. What was and is different about these guys was there offensive lines and schemes.. It makes that much of a difference.. dont believe me? just watch. KING

My Liege, I had no idea you were capable of such pedestrian thoughts. You honor the Great Unwashed Masses with your rapier wit and superior intellect.

[4TH AND STUPID]

in the end if your quarterback is shit or if your running back is shit it doesnt matter, unless your defense is top 3 in the league.

the problem with what you said is that there arent a lot of offensive lines that are SO BAD or SO GOOD that it will offset the playmaking ability of a really good or bad running back.

however, there ARE a lot of qbs that are terrible and impact the game so negatively that it puts all the pressure on the RB and thus takes them out of the equation (carolina panthers 2010)

the following (in order) has the greatest impact on the ability of the running back to perform:

1) running backs ability (determined by skill)

2) quarterbacks ability (seriously influences how teams use schemes to stop the run or focus on other things)

3) closely followed by offensive line (ability to block)

4) defense ability to control time of possession (if the defense can keep the other teams offense off the field, the other team's defensive line gets tired as shit in the 3rd and 4th quarter where most big runs happen)







an example of a crappy running back holding a team back would be marion barber in dallas over the last 2 years. the second they put in felix jones or tashard choice it looks like a totally different offense. an example of a crappy qb ruining a running game is kerry collins, who seriously hampered chris johnson's ability to gain yards until vince young came in for the titans at 0-6.



i think its more than 10% of RB's that matter.

chris johnson, tashard choice, jamaal charles, peyton hillis, arian foster, adrian peterson, ray rice, deangelo/jonathon combo, and maurice jones-drew have serious ability and it can only be offset by either 1) TERRIBLE offensive line, which is pretty rare or 2) a terrible QB. which in the case of deangelo/stewart it did.


furthermore, guys like marshaun lynch, fred jackson, marion barber, and a good 4 or 5 running backs who have to step in with no experience or due to injury, seriously impact the teams running game, even if the offensive line is amazing.

with 32 teams i'd say its morre accurate to say 6/32 or 18% of GOOD running backs matter and 6/32 or 18% of BAD running backs matter , regardless of the talent of the offensive line.

next i'd say great qb play, poor qb play or injuries affect another 5/32 running backs per week (16%) and that leaves really good or really bad offensive lines to SIGNIFICANTLY impact another 4 or 5 (16%) of running backs.



the point im making in the end, is that NFL handicapping all comes back to analyzing how a qb impacts the game first, before taking other things (which are very important nonetheless!) into account, and this includes the running back position!

[aznjeff07]

i see a big difference between adrian peterson and the rest. He does have a good line, but he's almost impossible to stop with just one or two people.

[biggamer3]

Totally agree with your premise

[Glitch]

i see a big difference between adrian peterson and the rest. He does have a good line, but he's almost impossible to stop with just one or two people.

he said take out the top 10 percent (which includes ad/ap because hes in the top 1 percent) and take out the bottom 10 percent. and the rest are the same.

[Br0nxer]

Its cyclical. Right now for the most part yes. Other than one or two guys for the most part the next 15 rb's are equal.

[play2winit]

Yep maybe some people need to reevaluate quarterbacks too

[jjgold]

Put any good rookie in and NFL game with a good line and he does well

There is basically zero difference in speed, power, quickness with most black guys that play football from 22-30