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Take Pippen and Rodman off Jordan's teams, Like LBJ is without Love and Kyrie and he doesn't do what he did. His 2nd and 3rd best players are out and he just won a finals game. His 2nd best offensive weapon is penetrating JR Smith. If you don't think you're watching something amazing you are insane.Originally Posted by jtoler
I bet Cavs bro, was basically saying regs. season isn't as important.
Are you on drugs tonight? Bulls were a 55 win team when Jordan quit. Basically the exact same lineup, just no Jordan. They were a bad call away from beating the Knicks and could easily have gone to the finals.
First incarnation, he had Pippen and an all-star PF in Ho Grant. Kukoc came along as a 6-10 guy with PG handle who won a sixth man of the year award. Add one of the all time greatest rebounders in Rodman for the second incarnation. They also stumbled into guys like Brian Williams for a playoff run, a 16/9 guy who fell into their lap. Jordan's championship teams had tons and tons of talent.
Not saying Lebron (or anyone) is better than Jordan, but drunkhorse is exactly right. That's a far sub-.500 team on the floor tonight without Lebron. Put Kyrie out there and take away Lebron and it's not a playoff team (just like the Heat). At least appreciate that the guy carries teams deeper into the playoffs than they have any business being.
Lebron left Cleveland...they went right back into the lottery.
Left Miami...guys couldn't make the playoffs in the east.
Hey when Lebron was out, this Cleveland team was shit, not even average.
The regular season is important if you can't even get to the playoffs.
Lebron left two different teams and they got catastrophically worse.
When Jordan left his team, they dropped off by two games. And won a round in the playoffs without him.
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I remember the mid-80's before Pippen and Grant showed up. All the numbskull "experts" said MJ couldn't touch Bird and Magic because he had no ring even though he was clearly the better player.
You mean without Bron and half the Miami team he took with him to Cleveland? The Miami team with a host of new rookies and a half dead Bosh? That team didnt do so well this year.
Your argument is Mike Miller and James Jones were important pieces from Miami going down, and Cleveland going up?
I can't argue with that logic. You win.
Tough to compare different years. The last year Jordan played baseball they were 34-31 until Jordan joined them for the last 17 and they went 13-4.
34 wins in 65 games, is more than Cleveland would have had the entire season without Lebron.
LeBron was 11-34 and played bad in OT as well as missing the last shot in regulation. Curry was 5-23. GS isn't going to beat many teams when Curry goes 5-23.
I think the way the game has evolved makes it difficult to make this debate work. Lebron's squad certainly awful without him, same in Miami. Jordan played in a different era and the respect he got as a player in arena's across the country was a different type of respect than the respect Lebron gets. Jordan didn't play in a flop first, lean into the defender to get a call type of league like it is today. Not saying they didn't have guys flopping back then or if that timeframe was better or worse than what it is today, just that you cannot really ever change someones opinion on this debate if you ACTUALLY watched/went to see Jordan play.
Jordan was 6-0 in the Finals.
Kobe has five rings.
LBJ is 2-4 and lucky he isn't 1-5 after an epic Spurs collapse.
LBJ is an all-time great but he isn't Jordan.
Kobe and MJ were closers.
When MJ left Bulls still had rest of team intact, when Bron left, rookies were starting. More logic?
Robert Horry has seven rings.
Greatest player ever.
No, you win. Mike Miller and James Jones were the difference makers.
That was the 2nd season after Jordan left. Ho Grant had gone to the Magic as a free agent.
You know what I mean.Robert Horry has seven rings.
Greatest player ever.
How old are you?
Early twenties?
Of course Michael Jordans the best player ever the king in the discussion and top five right now
Would it make you feel any better if your so called "vip " goes 6-18 in Cleveland?
Lol kids these days.
Cle won 53 games this year with Irving (22) and Love (26) The Bulls were 62-20 for the 6th ring and most players were over 30.
Jordan 34, played all 82 games
Rodman 36, played 66 games
Pippen 32, played 44 games
Harper 34
Longley 29
Kukoc 29
Depends on which team I bet.
Kobe was a real closer alright. Go back and look at what he did in the first couple Lakers titles. That was all Shaq completely dominating. Last title he was 6/24 from the field in game 7. Gasol saved his ass by dominating the O glass, including scoring the game-winning putback. After an epic Boston collapse. But if Lebron goes 11/34, or has a teammate hit the winning shot, he's a choker and his teammates are saving him. And his wins are only because the opponent collapsed, even when that opponent is a great Spurs team. I know, I know, Kobe had to deal with the likes of the Orlando Magic, Philly Sixers, etc.
The absolute deranged Lebron hate is crazy. BTW, he isn't 2-4 yet, though nobody could sensibly blame him if the Cavs don't win with this squad.
Bottom line is MJ is 1a and LBJ 1b
Only reason MJ got 1a is due to chronology
Laundry is done.
If they had love and irving they would be up 2-0 n on there way to a sweep. He does get the most out of his team then anybody else.
Jordan is a better clutch scorer..but lebron is a better all around player and much better defender.
Lebron is amazing, but it's also amazing how much shit he'd be getting if you change 1 or 2 plays and the Cavs lose that game. He shot terribly in the 2nd half of the game, and it would have been considered a choke of huge proportions. LBJ is that type of guy who is special even beyond his stats though. Makes guys around him better.
SBR servers overloading with Jordan/Lebron Comparisons.
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MJ was a killer, assassin, the tenacity you see from Westbrook, MJ was the blueprint. Bron is just built differently which is why I don't compare them and also because they play different positions, different styles, body types. But I can't sit back either and let someone say Bron is better, its asinine.
Optimus Prime or Voltron?
BTW, curry stop twirlng your mouth guard like a kid..annotying
Lebron is also playing with shit other players hence why he is taking so many shots, he has to. Curry is the MVP and just had the worst game of any finals series. Lebron also has to play D all game while Curry can be hidden on Cavs players since outside of Lebron, they have no offense.
Cavs are a quarter inch of going back to Cleveland up 2-0 with Lebron and guys who wouldn't start on GSW.
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