[YouMama]

Kobe yes, Labron no

[Tree Rollins]

Also, anyone that puts Shaq ahead of Kobe needs to get their head examined. I love Shaq but lets be real, there was a reason he WASN'T in the game in the final seconds or minute. He wasn't the goto guy. Kobe was. You couldn't count on Shaq because he couldn't make free throws or create a shot. Kobe has more rings, mvps, ect. and you people are really going to put a guy ahead of him that wouldn't even touch the ball on the final possession for a game winning shot? LMAO. It's one thing to dislike Kobe. It's another just to be ridiculous about his achievements.

Anyone that puts Shaq ahead of Kobe either doesn't know what they're talking about, or is just a Kobe hater. There are people who belong ahead of Kobe, Shaq is not one of them.

[81_84]

Lebron top ten all time , Sharp post. Give us a write up D , right after you tell us why the Eagles will win the SB.

[rsnnh12]

Bird never won a title without at least 3 other hall of famers on his team, and even had 4 other hall of famers for 1 title.Shaq never won a title without the the 2nd best player in the league on his team. Jordan never won a title without the best wing defender of all-time on his team, or without one of the top 5 players in the league on his team. Kareem never won a title without a top-10 player of all time on his team.
If people are going to use the 'Shaq' argument against Kobe, then use it against everyone else.

Where did I use that argument?

I'm basing that on who I would start a team with. Kobe just isn't better than any of them at this point

[rsnnh12]

Anyone that puts Shaq ahead of Kobe either doesn't know what they're talking about, or is just a Kobe hater. There are people who belong ahead of Kobe, Shaq is not one of them.

Why not? Was Shaq not the best player on those Lakers teams?

[HendoNation]

I'd like to see Lebron play the old style of basketball, before players would simply lower their shoulder and barrel through the defense, drawing a foul (which I believe should be offensive). That's why I respect the brilliance that Kobe shows on the court

[dlunc3]

Lebron top ten all time , Sharp post. Give us a write up D , right after you tell us why the Eagles will win the SB.

first, read my post... it said after lebrons career is over... for now, here is your write up smart guy..

PPG: lebron- 27.7
kobe- 25.3

Assist PG: lebron- 7
kobe- 4.7

Rebounds PG: lebron- 7.1
kobe- 4.3

FG %: lebron- 48%
kobe- 45.5%

Only thing kobe has him on is the titles... which everyone knows is a matter of time before lebron has a few, as he is only 27 (jordan did not win one until he was 28).

took kobe 5 years before winning his first ring with shaq.. pretty sure it wont take that long now that lebron has a star to play along side of... kobe didnt get held down all by himself in cleveland for years.. we saw what kobe could do on a team by himself once shaq left and it didnt compare to what lebron did in cleveland

[zsr]

Bird never won a title without at least 3 other hall of famers on his team, and even had 4 other hall of famers for 1 title.Shaq never won a title without the the 2nd best player in the league on his team. Jordan never won a title without the best wing defender of all-time on his team, or without one of the top 5 players in the league on his team. Kareem never won a title without a top-10 player of all time on his team.
If people are going to use the 'Shaq' argument against Kobe, then use it against everyone else.

Huh?

The argument is, Shaq was the best player on those teams, Scottie was never close to being the best player on those bulls team. That's the difference.

[Tree Rollins]

Huh? The argument is, Shaq was the best player on those teams, Scottie was never close to being the best player on those bulls team. That's the difference.

Huh? The argument is you could diminish every great players value if you use the talents of their teammates against them. No one wins without a ton of help. Nothing changes how well Kobe on all those championship teams. If all you can say to knock Kobe is "he won his 1st 3 titles with Shaq" then you have nothing. Shaq wouldn't have any titles without Kobe or Wade. Kareem wouldn't have won his titles without Oscar or Magic. It goes on. If you watched every one of those playoff games in each of those Laker titles runs, you would understand how well Kobe played. It would be one thing if they made those runs with Kobe playing subpar ball, and Shaq carrying the weight or making up for Kobes play. It was nothing like that. Kobe was dominant in every one of those runs. There were a number of games where he outplayed Shaq.

[zsr]

Shaq was the best player on those teams. Thats the obvious difference between all the other greats and there "side kick" so to speak. Don't start spewing bs.

Good discussion in this thread besides the few trolls, surprised

I think we can all agree he's somewhere 6-12 range..

[riffraff24]

Kobe is top 5 all time. the end

[Speedy88]

are we seriously having this discussion for the 100X time. Yes he is. End of story.
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[YouHave2outs]

did not read anything but title. this thread is a fkng joke. answer is yes

edit, and i hate him

[Goat Milk]

LOL stupid thread

compare jordan's 16 season to kobe's. and your dumb enough to ask if kobe is even top 3 all time. imbecile.

[B1AZE]

no doubt....pushing into that top 5.

and you cant use the kobe had shaq thing w/o realizing shaq had kobe as well.

and Lebron? and then quoting scoring? Lebron hasnt shown anything that resembles a top 5 all time player except maybe his hype. He isn't even the greatest player on his team. Wade is easily ahead of him right now as far as credentials and what it takes to make a list of this magnitude. LeBron has a long ways to go before he's even talked about as one of the greatest. I've seen nothing and he doesnt have any rings, doesnt want to take the important shots and when he does they brick. Jordan with Wade and Bosh would kill. . . no way close.

[B1AZE]

and i dont think Kobe was Shaq's sidekick.
Each were equally dominant.

1A. Shaq
1B. Kobe

Pippen = sidekick
Kobe = no sidekick

[Goat Milk]

first, read my post... it said after lebrons career is over... for now, here is your write up smart guy.. PPG: lebron- 27.7 kobe- 25.3 Assist PG: lebron- 7 kobe- 4.7 Rebounds PG: lebron- 7.1 kobe- 4.3 FG %: lebron- 48% kobe- 45.5% Only thing kobe has him on is the titles... which everyone knows is a matter of time before lebron has a few, as he is only 27 (jordan did not win one until he was 28). took kobe 5 years before winning his first ring with shaq.. pretty sure it wont take that long now that lebron has a star to play along side of... kobe didnt get held down all by himself in cleveland for years.. we saw what kobe could do on a team by himself once shaq left and it didnt compare to what lebron did in cleveland

My man Lebron played in the east which was when the pistons were coming to an end and the celtics hadn't formed and the bulls sucked. the east was garbage. when you play in the west you play contending teams every night. obviously its not that way anymore.

also, kobe's first three years in the league were much differen.t if you take out those first three years where he was still learnign the game and had phill jackson as his coach basiclaly his second father then he would have better ppg than lebron. lebron is no where near kobe all time as of now.

kobe is a straight killer. hes 50 pounds lighter than lebron and has been hitting that post of fadeaway since he was 23. Lebron is jsut starting to learn the post now.

[Koldazzice]

tim duncan for 1 is in the top 10 of all time - check the resume if you Need to.
4 rings , 3 time finals mvp, 2 time nba mvp, 13yrs all nba, 13 yrs all DEF nba and 13 time all star!

Kobe for sure
The big O!
Wilt
larry legend
kareem
bill russell
magic man
Jordan

fill in the 10th spot with shaq, or lebron on (maybe later)

[Goat Milk]

and i dont think Kobe was Shaq's sidekick. Each were equally dominant. 1A. Shaq 1B. Kobe Pippen = sidekick Kobe = no sidekick

Kobe is better than Shaq on every ESPN analysts and star-players (i.e. Magic, Jerry West, Jordan) list. its not even debatable as far as all-time. Kobe is the arguably the best player in the world in his 16th season in the nba. that's all people need to know.

[SBR Lou]

Kobe has more rings, mvps, ect. and you people are really going to put a guy ahead of him that wouldn't even touch the ball on the final possession for a game winning shot? LMAO.

It's one thing to dislike Kobe. It's another just to be ridiculous about his achievements.

It's definitely ridiculous. If you had a magic wand and gave Lebron Kobe's resume, the haters would be anointing him the new Jordan. They were already trying to do that his first couple years until he became more exposed in the clutch.

It hurts my eyes reading all of the silly "he had another great player on his team!" arguments, it's just so unequivocally stupid.

[Speedy88]

Tim Duncan = Greatest PF In The History Of The NBA
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[jstblaze]

Kobe should be on top ten.

But it is all personal choice. Basketball changed styles so much you cant even compare the old greats.

As long as you dont put Lebron ahead of Kobe Im ok wherever he goes. You cant even put the Kobe and Lebron in the same league at this point.

[zsr]

LOL stupid thread

compare jordan's 16 season to kobe's. and your dumb enough to ask if kobe is even top 3 all time. imbecile.

get your shit out of here. He's not top 3, not even close, it's not an argument. Jordan is significantly better in every single category and significantly better in playoff games

Lol at everybody not realizing the Shaq argument.

Of course every great player had another great player when they won championships, but SHAQ WAS THE BEST PLAYER ON THOSE TEAMS. PERIOD. THATS NOT EVEN A DEBATE. Kobe had the better career but Shaq was the best player those 3 years.

[zsr]

Kobe is better than Shaq on every ESPN analysts and star-players (i.e. Magic, Jerry West, Jordan) list. its not even debatable as far as all-time. Kobe is the arguably the best player in the world in his 16th season in the nba. that's all people need to know.

Kobe had a better career then Shaq, yes. He's a better all time player. But Shaq was the best player on those teams.

The highest I'd put Kobe is 6 I think. If he wins another championship probably up to 5..

[NYSportsGuy210]

magic, russell, kareem, shaq, jordan, wilt, bird, big O, and yes ill say it lebron (when said and done), all better... so that puts him at #10

Dude you usually post intelligent credible stuff in this forum which is why I can't believe you wrote this.....

Lebron is not even better than Karl Malone right now....

[BigBurk]

Ofcourse Kobe is top 10.. Look, I hate the Lakers also and I don't really like Kobe as well but anyone who is completely honest has to admit the guy is top 10 easily.

[darkhat]

Kobe is top 5 of all time. No question.

[SBR Lou]

In the NBA, it seems it's common for fans to compare a point guard to a center, or any other position when determining the all time "best". Why? It seems unfair to compare radically different skill positions to determine an overall best.

In the NFL, you compare the greatest QB's, WR's etc, you don't see people list Jerry Rice ahead of Peyton Manning.

[upscope]

I would say he is borderline top 10 right now. Somewhere between 8-12. But remember he still has 3-5 yrs left & when it's all said & done should be the leagues all-time scoring leader. If he adds another ring or two to go along w/ it & stays @ least close to an elite performer into his age 35,36,37 yrs then there's a chance that he will be considered the 2nd best of all-time behind Jordan.

[zsr]

Good point upscope. If he wins 2 more rings as the elite player he is now I'd put him 2 or 3 in a heartbeat. Hard to invision but he is Kobe so it's possible

[upscope]

first, read my post... it said after lebrons career is over... for now, here is your write up smart guy..

PPG: lebron- 27.7
kobe- 25.3

Assist PG: lebron- 7
kobe- 4.7

Rebounds PG: lebron- 7.1
kobe- 4.3

FG %: lebron- 48%
kobe- 45.5%

Only thing kobe has him on is the titles... which everyone knows is a matter of time before lebron has a few, as he is only 27 (jordan did not win one until he was 28).

took kobe 5 years before winning his first ring with shaq.. pretty sure it wont take that long now that lebron has a star to play along side of... kobe didnt get held down all by himself in cleveland for years.. we saw what kobe could do on a team by himself once shaq left and it didnt compare to what lebron did in cleveland

Do you realize that there is more to the game than points/rebounds/assist?? Don't even get me started on LeBron's deficiencies because they FAR out # Kobes.

As far as points go Kobe only played sparingly his first 2 seasons & had another elite scorer to play with. LeBron came in scoring 20+ from day one & never had another elite scorer taking away from his scoring numbers.

As far as rebounds go LeBron is a 6-8 forward Kobe is a 6-6 guard I would hope LeBron averages more rebounds. But believe it or not Kobe is regularly the top rebounding guard in the league & one of the top rebounding guards in the history of the game.

And people that compare their fg% & favor LeBron are clueless to understand that LeBron regularly leads the league in lay-UP's & dunks while Kobe shoots mostly heavily contested jumpshots. Anybody even remotely suggesting that LeBron is a better shooter than Kobe should just stick to football.....

I will give LeBron mad props for his superior assist #'s but Kobe has routinely been #1 or #2 in assist from all shooting guards for 10 yrs running...

[oiler]

jordan will always be the best

[dlunc3]

Do you realize that there is more to the game than points/rebounds/assist?? Don't even get me started on LeBron's deficiencies because they FAR out # Kobes.

As far as points go Kobe only played sparingly his first 2 seasons & had another elite scorer to play with. LeBron came in scoring 20+ from day one & never had another elite scorer taking away from his scoring numbers.

As far as rebounds go LeBron is a 6-8 forward Kobe is a 6-6 guard I would hope LeBron averages more rebounds. But believe it or not Kobe is regularly the top rebounding guard in the league & one of the top rebounding guards in the history of the game.

And people that compare their fg% & favor LeBron are clueless to understand that LeBron regularly leads the league in lay-UP's & dunks while Kobe shoots mostly heavily contested jumpshots. Anybody even remotely suggesting that LeBron is a better shooter than Kobe should just stick to football.....

I will give LeBron mad props for his superior assist #'s but Kobe has routinely been #1 or #2 in assist from all shooting guards for 10 yrs running...

Again.. kobe has had a better career thusfar, no doubt... but lebron is only 27, and has already done more then jordan did before he won his first title at age 28. To think he is not going to win a few championships is ridiculous.. my statement that lebron wil be ahead of kobe when said and done is just a projection.. and it really is a tough projection to argue with at this point.

[dlunc3]

Dude you usually post intelligent credible stuff in this forum which is why I can't believe you wrote this.....

Lebron is not even better than Karl Malone right now....

read where i said "all said and done"... it is tough to argue against that, as even jordan didnt win his first title until he was 28.. lebron has done way more then even jordan did when he was 27... the guy is still young... Obviously he will never be jordan.. but having a better career then kobe is very likely

[Bill Dozer]

Kobe and Lebron have had top 10 season, IMO at least from most of our lifetimes. But in terms of being competitors with pride, Ive never seen MJ not do his best to lock someone down on D. Even Pippen. Lebron and Kobe miss assignments all the time and won't get back. More so for Lebron. Sure they can block 12 foot shots but actual team defense?

If Im starting a team with recent players that Ive seen play best in their prime it's Pippen and Jordan over Kobe and Lebron. If it's best NBA athletes Kobe and Lebron at the top.