[shaunovery]

As in many cases we all took loans of ds and as Dngf is his partner everyone should still pay up just because sbr wants to due ds for fraud we should honour the debt

[dngf]

Hey guys:
Downsouth will be back in a few days. He is looking for a new approved sports book to deposit with to make his pro application. And he will be using his existing name going forward. He did lose the 7,300+ points that he had on hand at the time of the incident. Those of you that have loans with him, may pay me, as DS and I are partners on 40K in loans, or hold on to the points and pay DS in a few days when he is back with posting privileges. He appreciates the support he has received and is looking forward to getting back.

[BigDaddy]

i owe the points like i said they either go to DS or SBR charity purchase.

no matter if DS gets banned or not

i have no problem hanging onto the points

i have always paid back lenders every day

i should have A+ credit here if that is such a thing

[BigDaddy]

good news

i was typing my reply and did not see your above post

[sideloaded]

Hey guys:
Downsouth will be back in a few days. He is looking for a new approved sports book to deposit with to make his pro application. And he will be using his existing name going forward. He did lose the 7,300+ points that he had on hand at the time of the incident. Those of you that have loans with him, may pay me, as DS and I are partners on 40K in loans, or hold on to the points and pay DS in a few days when he is back with posting privileges. He appreciates the support he has received and is looking forward to getting back.

lol so he is basically admitting to fraud then?

[BigDaddy]

what could he have done to get points taken away and then be able to comeback again and still get points

i figured if he came back he would have been found not guilty

makes no sense on what is going on

[sideloaded]

I respect you paying your loan bigdaddy, but I really don't see the need since the loaner was committing fraud himself and has to pay 200 dollars just to come back.

[BigDaddy]

maybe they will go straight to charity

no reason if he was a scammer to profit

i'll have to think about it and get some opinions

[RudyRuetigger]

wait and see what DS stance on this matter is

[BigDaddy]

wait and see what DS stance on this matter is

i am

as we really don't know what is going on just yet but it is a little confusing

[senseionline]

i would like to hear why he's point been taking away

[stuck621]

I will also wait til Downsouth comes back (in any form) and will pay off my debt to him. He was the first person to give me big loan so I owe it to him to pay him back everything.

[firehoyt]

This seems fishy. DS is a stand up guy. He hooked me up with a 25 betpoints loan. Doubt he was scamming in any way. Seems to me SBR just arbitrarily confiscated his points bc of the high amount. He had already gotten an iPad and now he was racking up on the points again. No response from SBR on any reasoning bc they're judge, jury and executioner.
No PRO renewal for me in two weeks.

[KGambler]

It sounds like he was offered the same deal chembro was offered... he can come back as a poster, sans his points, as long as he creates another SBR affiliate sportsbook account. It seems he wants to come back as a poster and participate in the forum again. I wouldn't take that as an admission of guilt.

Think about it... he must have many loans still out. He likes to post here. He will get free points again. He probably likes to gamble with the points, give loans, etc. So by swallowing his pride, he is not admitting to any fraud. I don't know why people would jump to that conclusion. Put yourself in his shoes. Some people would tell SBR to **** off, some would swallow their pride.

If there is any fraud going on here, it is probably on SBR's end.

[suman]

Hey guys:
Downsouth will be back in a few days. He is looking for a new approved sports book to deposit with to make his pro application. And he will be using his existing name going forward. He did lose the 7,300+ points that he had on hand at the time of the incident. Those of you that have loans with him, may pay me, as DS and I are partners on 40K in loans, or hold on to the points and pay DS in a few days when he is back with posting privileges. He appreciates the support he has received and is looking forward to getting back.

So I hope that you will still honor my deposit that I had with downsouth for 4k, PM me so we can talk about this.

[ouman101]

So since no one has thrown this theory out there, I'll see what everyone thinks. My guess is that the fraud had something to do with poker, as it obviously would be hard for anyone but SBR to track. As Shari mentioned in her explanation, fraud can be in the form of poker, trivia, etc. Not just multiple accounts funneling to the same account.

I know Downsouth was a big poker tourney player, and now poker tourney winnings are paid in free plays. Is there any possibility that DS and others were chip dumping back and forth to meet their poker rollover?

To me, this would also be an offense that SBR would allow them to come back, but that obviously all of their points have been confiscated.

[BeerDog99]

I seriously doubt Downsouth cheated in Poker or anything else here....

[zsr]

Maybe I'm the only one who saw this, but in the chem thread optional made a post asking who would transfer points with a family member or who would log in from the same ip as another member. Downsouth responded that he had done one of these, I'm guessing sbr saw this and investigated? Seems like the most obvious thing but who knows

[ThaddeusB]

It sounds like he was offered the same deal chembro was offered... he can come back as a poster, sans his points, as long as he creates another SBR affiliate sportsbook account. It seems he wants to come back as a poster and participate in the forum again. I wouldn't take that as an admission of guilt. Think about it... he must have many loans still out. He likes to post here. He will get free points again. He probably likes to gamble with the points, give loans, etc. So by swallowing his pride, he is not admitting to any fraud. I don't know why people would jump to that conclusion. Put yourself in his shoes. Some people would tell SBR to **** off, some would swallow their pride.

If there is any fraud going on here, it is probably on SBR's end.

I agree. It makes no sense for SBr to let him back w/o returning the points. Either he is guilty and shouldn't be allowed back or (more likely) SBR has some pretty sketchy evidence and just doesn't want to admit they made a mistake.

Thaddeus

[ThaddeusB]

So since no one has thrown this theory out there, I'll see what everyone thinks. My guess is that the fraud had something to do with poker, as it obviously would be hard for anyone but SBR to track. As Shari mentioned in her explanation, fraud can be in the form of poker, trivia, etc. Not just multiple accounts funneling to the same account.

I know Downsouth was a big poker tourney player, and now poker tourney winnings are paid in free plays. Is there any possibility that DS and others were chip dumping back and forth to meet their poker rollover?

To me, this would also be an offense that SBR would allow them to come back, but that obviously all of their points have been confiscated.

I do believe the banning stems from poker, as the timing of this+chemicalbrother strongly suggests SBR got a new fraud detection method on poker. I do not believe the perceived fraud was real, however. Instead, I believe the system resulted in a false positive here (not so sure on chemical) and SBR is unwilling to admit that possibility.

[downsouth]

First off, I would like to thank those that supported me or at least withheld judgement until hearing my side of story. It really is appreciated.

Secondly, I would like to take a few moments and address the scenario that I dealt with recently. I had my pro status revoked and approx 10k in points removed from me. This was due to SBR believing I was involved in poker collusion at the poker tables. Over the past 6 months I have played poker a handfull of times(i would guess less than 7 but really not sure) with my father also at the tables. A few times I was aware I was playing with him and a few times I wasnt even paying attention. At no time was any type of collusion committed or even attempted(I requested to see hand histories or anything that showed that but my request was not fulfilled). My father is brand new to the game and I figured SBR would be a good place for him to learn so I showed him the site and helped him sign up. He plays the tourneys and if/when he wins something plays the tables to rollover.

A little background, my father signed up 8 months ago or so, we live in seperate residences, and SBR was fully aware that we were related as it was disclosed when he signed up. So it wasnt like I was trying to hide it or anything of the sort. We were informed no point transfers between the accounts which was understandable. His account is a non-pro account anyway so transferring would not really work. My brother also signed up and lives at his place in college. He did go SBR pro but again SBR was aware and we were told no point transfers.( I do not believe we have ever played poker together at ring games, maybe a few times in same tourney but not sure)

So I guess the other day when I said in the chemical brother thread that I had done one of the things listed that it got my account looked into and fraud alarm went off. I really had no idea and figured what I was doing was fine as nothing fradulent was going on.

I enjoy my time here at SBR and would not have been stupid enough to risk my 10K in points plus approx 35K in outstanding loans trying to scam a few points at poker. I'm not smart enough to pull it off or stupid enough to try as over the year I have seen how often people get caught by the number of times I have loaned someone points only to have them disappear right away for fraud. So I know SBR catches people alot smarter computer wise than me. As far as the poker, Ive played more online poker than probably 95% of this forum and know what collusion is and looks like, if my hand history was reviewed I dont think anything of collusion/chip dumping could be shown.

So in hindsight obviously it was a bad idea to play poker with a family member, hell, probably a bad idea to have them signed up here in the first place. Just thought it would be something fun to do with pops. Oh well, it was a tough lesson, but lesson learned.

As far as me coming back means I admit guilt, that couldnt be farther from the truth. I feel like I got the short end of the stick but for me I enjoy being here, have quite a bit invested and there really is no other option. So I was given the option to go pro through another book than the one I had gone pro with(couldnt even use the one I opened like 2 weeks ago thru SBR) and upon my pro app being approved I would be reinstated with a clean slate. Wasnt really happy about it but needed another outlet for college basketball steam anyway so it was totally for nothing. Put yourself in my position, if the $200 was not a huge deal and you were going to lose something you enjoyed would you not swallow your pride and go thru the process.

[zsr]

Wow, that definitely makes sbr look bad, like many had assumed anyway. Did they give a reason for not disclosing hand histories? It seems that would of solved everything. Instead they make you sign up with a new book so they get more money, without ever proving you did anything..

[downsouth]

Wow, that definitely makes sbr look bad, like many had assumed anyway. Did they give a reason for not disclosing hand histories? It seems that would of solved everything. Instead they make you sign up with a new book so they get more money, without ever proving you did anything..

Honestly at this point I'd just assume let it die. I didnt think it was a big deal but should not have played with family. Lesson learned and will not happen again.

[Carseller4]

Welcome back downsouth!

At least you got to keep your steak badge!!!

Lesson: Never tell anyone about this site....friends or family.

BS move by SBR in the first place.

[mattmc419]

Welcome back downsouth!

At least you got to keep your steak badge!!!

Lesson: Never tell anyone about this site....friends or family.

BS move by SBR in the first place.

Welcome back DS!

I think that this is, unfortunately, the reality. I've considered inviting friends before, but with all the restrictions and possible sanctions, it's not really worth it, especially now that even people who have completely disclosed who they know to SBR have been hit.

[downsouth]

Welcome back downsouth!

At least you got to keep your steak badge!!!

Lesson: Never tell anyone about this site....friends or family.

BS move by SBR in the first place.

STeak Badge, the real reason I re-upped.

[ThaddeusB]

For what its worth, I believe SBR does not have the requested hand histories. They saw the play with your dad and, like everything they do, they assumed guilt and asked questions later (most aren't lucky enough to get the ask later). It is bullshit like this that has convinced me to not tell anyone I know to sign up here. Apparently, they do not want word of mouth referrals. But, at least they let you back under your existing name and let you keep the steak badge.

Welcome back,
Thaddeus

[sideloaded]

I do believe the banning stems from poker, as the timing of this+chemicalbrother strongly suggests SBR got a new fraud detection method on poker. I do not believe the perceived fraud was real, however. Instead, I believe the system resulted in a false positive here (not so sure on chemical) and SBR is unwilling to admit that possibility.

say goodbye to your points thad. You know what you have done.

[ThaddeusB]

say goodbye to your points thad. You know what you have done.

LOL and what is that exactly?

Just because I'm paranoid about SBR's lackadaisical attitude about assuming guilt doesn't mean I've done something wrong. To assume it does makes you even worse than SBR.

[zsr]

say goodbye to your points thad. You know what you have done.

Is it sad that I can imagine sbr giving this as a response to someone when they ban them?

[sideloaded]

LOL and what is that exactly?

Just because I'm paranoid about SBR's lackadaisical attitude about assuming guilt doesn't mean I've done something wrong. To assume it does makes you even worse than SBR.

SBR and others know who you were before you signed up under this name. Lets just say you have a checkered past with points, lending, and stiffing.

[Carseller4]

SBR and others know who you were before you signed up under this name. Lets just say you have a checkered past with points, lending, and stiffing.

at first I thought he was williams22 also but the posting styles are completely different.

williams22 last post was on 7/18/10
thad's join date was 8/10/10

merely a coincidence

[sideloaded]

he's not williams22 his last name also had thad in it

[zsr]

he's not williams22 his last name also had thad in it

[zsr]

You can easily google thads name and it seems he is who he says he is..