[jjgold]

what a jerkoff

I see a good number on SF and take them

[MoneyIsWater]

JJ.

You went against me

[ZIPPER HEAD]

what a jerkoff

I see a good number on SF and take them

Get some sleep cocaine is a helluva drug better than Koufax?? Pull outa me

[jjgold]

Moneyman liked the number man

going against you is a bad thing


He is better than Sandy hate to say it

[STAX]

Not yet JJ... 3 more years of this and Kershaw will pass Sandy for sure, Sandy was unreal for about 6 years

[MoneyIsWater]

Its OK JJ

Let it be a lesson.

[STAX]

Sandy's last 6 years

W-L ERA WHIP
18-13 3.00 1.205
14-7 2.15 1.036
25-5 1.85 .875
19-5 2.08 .928
26-8 1.93 .855
27-9 2.07 .985

avgd over a K an inning all 6 years

[ZIPPER HEAD]

Not yet JJ... 3 more years of this and Kershaw will pass Sandy for sure, Sandy was unreal for about 6 years

This. Kershaw will have tommy John surgery by end of next years season

[packerd_00]

Did you even watch Sandy Koufax pitch.

[King Mayan]

Both Dodger greats!!!

[RollinDo]

I love betting Giants but I even saw this as a "not a chance" kinda game.
Thought Giants would need 3 runs to even hit the +1.5.
Thought they would get 1 or 2, so guess I was wrong too.

[sbrhedge]

yup i messed up to handicapping the Giants .. Kershaw really came back hard today

[minet123]

Sandy's last 6 years

W-L ERA WHIP
18-13 3.00 1.205
14-7 2.15 1.036
25-5 1.85 .875
19-5 2.08 .928
26-8 1.93 .855
27-9 2.07 .985

avgd over a K an inning all 6 years

^^^^^^
AND NONE OF US WHO POSTS HERE SAW HIM PITCH LIVE
and besides Kershaw is not better than
Ryan
Carlton
In there prime

[STAX]

^^^^^^
AND NONE OF US WHO POSTS HERE SAW HIM PITCH LIVE
and besides Kershaw is not better than
Ryan
Carlton
In there prime

he is def better than ryan and Charlton, he is pitching about as good as randy johnson ever did. thats saying alot. you want to see something crazy...

Greg Maddux 7 year run:

W-L ERA WHIP
20-11 2.18 1.011
20-10 2.36 1.049
16-6 1.56 .896
19-2 1.63 .811
15-11 2.72 1.033
19-4 2.20 .946
18-9 2.22 .980

1992-1998, prime steroid era here, and to put up those numbers? Maddux definately on the mount rushmore of all time best pitchers of all time.

[raydog]

you cant compare players from 50+yrs ago to todays players and todays game... all but a very few of the best pitchers and batters (overall players) from then would even be mentioned again if they played a season now...

pitchers, today, face batters who are a TON better... its not even worth the time to debate

[existential]

better than koufax? LMFAO stop being stupid

[TheMetsSuck]

he probably is better than koufax. mb not when you compare outdated numbers to kershaws current career numbers. you cant compare professionals that long ago to guys around today. Like comparing larry bird to lebron james.

[raydog]

he probably is better than koufax. mb not when you compare outdated numbers to kershaws current career numbers. you cant compare professionals that long ago to guys around today. Like comparing larry bird to lebron james.

horrible analogy... bird could score, at will, in the league today. ... no chance in hell any pitcher from 50yrs ago could put up similar era's in todays game...

[Brooklyn Dick]

I have been around a long time, saw Koufax pitch many times. When Koufax pitched there was no money line. Just runs. Usually take 2 or lay 2 1/2. When at his peak no one since has compared to him. No one.

[Boner_18]

Contrary to popular belief you CAN compare any two things, thats what make sports comparisons fun. Also you dont have to see a guy pitch to analyse his ability, thats ridiculous. Kershaw has about 1000 innings left to stay this good or get slightly worse and he'll end up above kofax.

[raydog]

Contrary to popular belief you CAN compare any two things, thats what make sports comparisons fun. Also you dont have to see a guy pitch to analyse his ability, thats ridiculous. Kershaw has about 1000 innings left to stay this good or get slightly worse and he'll end up above kofax.

there would be dozens( if not more) of pitchers from the last few decades that would put up Sandy's #s if they pitched against the players of 50yrs ago... and sandy wouldnt sniff his era#s from his best years if he was in his prime today... common bone, you really cant compare the two

[Chi_archie]

Yeah bone

koufax got to face teams a lot more often ans mostly pitched CG's

so bums got to see him 4-5 times a game.

bums like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Frank Robonson, McCovey, Orlando Cepeda, Billy Willisms, Roberto Clemente, Eddie Matthews, Ernie Banks

[44 Mag]

I have been around a long time, saw Koufax pitch many times. When Koufax pitched there was no money line. Just runs. Usually take 2 or lay 2 1/2. When at his peak no one since has compared to him. No one.

I saw Koufax pitch, but was way too young to wager. The mound was higher, a lot less teams to pitch against, no DH and no interleague play. But, That does not discredit the fact he was probably the most dominant pitcher of his era. If he didn't have to retire early do to severe arthritis and had all the MD support they have today and trainers etc., who's knows how long he could have gone. He was great !!! I hope Kershaw can compare at the end of his career, but he is only 26 years old. But, as well, right now he is the most dominant, no question. Just my thoughts.

[raydog]

Yeah bone

koufax got to face teams a lot more often ans mostly pitched CG's

so bums got to see him 4-5 times a game.

bums like Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, Frank Robonson, McCovey, Orlando Cepeda, Billy Willisms, Roberto Clemente, Eddie Matthews, Ernie Banks

so maybe 1, sometimes 2 hitters per team that could compete in something better than college today... got it.. thanks for clearing that up

[jjgold]

In both of the fines it's very close to compare

[slayer14]

he has to do these good pitching displays in the playoffs and world series to be a all time great

[str]

so maybe 1, sometimes 2 hitters per team that could compete in something better than college today... got it.. thanks for clearing that up

You don't honestly think that Pete Rose, Willie Stargell, Johnny Callison, Lou Brock, Dick Groat, Ken Boyer, Bill White, Vada Pinson, Curt Flood, Roy Sievers, Joe Torre, Tim McCarver, Bill Mazeroski, the Alou's,Felipe, Jesus and Matty, Don Demeter, Rusty Staub, Rico Carty, Richie Allen, couldn't compete today ?

That's 29 from both lists excluding the LA Dodgers. Only 9 teams without the Dodgers back then. That's 3 each team with 4 on 2 of them average. Pretty sure I could find more. And only the N.L.

Koufax faced the Yankees twice in 63 and dominated them in the World Series, both home and away.

Not hating but trying to stick up for my guys .

Your being hard on my heroes Ray.

[raydog]

i dont mean to be hard on the old guys... no, i dont think half those guys would sniff the numbers they put up against the meat throwers of yesteryear, if they could even make teams today... not saying sandy wasnt amazing, IN HIS PRIME, but he also had some shit years and faced many many players who obviously couldnt make teams today...

i dont think many realize the speed difference in todays game.. speed of pitches and speed of players... maybe im wrong.. i know sandy threw it hard for those days

[Chi_archie]

When comparing old time ERAs vs current times. Especially in instances of talks about of one player being better than one another. I think it is more fruitful to talk about how each does against their current competition.

EX: Is Kemba Walker better than Bob Cousey?

kemba might very well may have been able to put up MVP numbers and set records if their bodies magically switched in time via a 88 mph driving Deloren, some plutonium and 1.21 Gigi watts


Cousey might not be able to make a power conference NCAA division 1 team.

but that kind of skews the actual point of discussion.

who was better in their particular time?

[str]

i dont mean to be hard on the old guys... no, i dont think half those guys would sniff the numbers they put up against the meat throwers of yesteryear, if they could even make teams today... not saying sandy wasnt amazing, IN HIS PRIME, but he also had some shit years and faced many many players who obviously couldnt make teams today...

i dont think many realize the speed difference in todays game.. speed of pitches and speed of players... maybe im wrong.. i know sandy threw it hard for those days

Too a large degree, I think it is all relative. The Wright Brothers were no less ballsy then John Glenn was. It was just there era. One flew a plane for the 1st time. The other, went into orbit. So who was better? Neither one. They both just did all they could in their time with what they had. I think it's the same here.

I remember sneaking in to the Georgetown University weight room when Lombardi coached the Skins when I was about 14, waaaaay back in the day. And there it was. A universal gym ! Lol. State of the art back then. It was incredible. I damn near killed my sorry ass self on that thing. Lol.

I so appreciate what today's player does. It is crazy. But back then, it was just as crazy compared to that era's yesteryear.

Yes, the speed of the game has increased but so has the understanding of technique that is taught at an early age.

I look forward to the next Bo Jackson. Dude will probably jump over the backboard or throw a pass to himself for a T.D.

And you aren't being hard on those other old guys, oh, you mean me? Lol. When you hit 60, you will say the same thing. Your only as old as you feel, and I wake up every day wanting to kick some ass in my line of business ( albeit with a slight limp or sore hand now and then). Enjoy it while you have it Ray, and by the way, that's a really cool dog . Looks like a Dane with floppy ears. If so, I had one. They don't last long so enjoy every minute you have with it. I sure did with mine.

[pettifogger]

^^^^^^
AND NONE OF US WHO POSTS HERE SAW HIM PITCH LIVE
and besides Kershaw is not better than
Ryan
Carlton
In there prime

I saw him pitch several times and have never seen better than he was during a 5 year span. I would match him and Gibson against anyone.

[str]

I saw him pitch several times and have never seen better than he was during a 5 year span. I would match him and Gibson against anyone.

Yes Sir !!!


Best righty, lefty combo I ever saw.

[pettifogger]

there would be dozens( if not more) of pitchers from the last few decades that would put up Sandy's #s if they pitched against the players of 50yrs ago... and sandy wouldnt sniff his era#s from his best years if he was in his prime today... common bone, you really cant compare the two

Koufax threw in the high 90's, had a devastating curve (12 to 6) and unmatched control. He would be a $20,000,000.00 man today.

[raydog]

ive read where the more accurate # was low 90s (and nobody can know for sure since there was no speed gun used then, but still harder than anyone else) and he threw against a lot of guys who couldnt make minor league teams now... im seriously not trying to take anything away from him, but its ridiculous to think he could do now, against the much better athletes, what he did then..

[smitch124]

he is def better than ryan and Charlton, he is pitching about as good as randy johnson ever did. thats saying alot. you want to see something crazy...

Greg Maddux 7 year run:

W-L ERA WHIP
20-11 2.18 1.011
20-10 2.36 1.049
16-6 1.56 .896
19-2 1.63 .811
15-11 2.72 1.033
19-4 2.20 .946
18-9 2.22 .980

1992-1998, prime steroid era here, and to put up those numbers? Maddux definately on the mount rushmore of all time best pitchers of all time.

.811 WHIP that's just sick.