1. 05-19-12 10:56 PM #36
    MoneyLineDawg
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyBear View Post
    Is this a serious question? One is the premier SS of the past 15+ years playing the most difficult position on the baseball diamond and is going to finish in the top 5 in hits all time while the other player is a relief pitcher. There is no comparison. Any person who studies baseball knows that there is no comparison and knows that the most overrated statistic in all of baseball is the "save" and the pitchers who earn "saves." In fact, Rivera may not even be a Hall of Famer and if he is, it will be borderline.
    Your last sentence is the dumbest thing I've read on SBR in a while.......Best closer ever, best relief pitcher ever, and one of the best pitchers ever, period.

    I think most diehard Yankee fans would go with Mariano Rivera over Jeter, but more baseball fans that aren't Yankee fans go Jeter

    Rivera much more dominant for what he does than Jeter, but cases can be made for both guys
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  2. 05-19-12 10:59 PM #37
    BuddyBear
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    Not necessarily. Trevor Hoffman is no guarantee for the Hall of Fame. Lot of voters won't vote for Rivera because he is a relief pitcher and so what if he is the greatest at his position...at the end of the day, he is still a relief pitcher. If he was really good, he would be a starter. But that's besides the point. Anyone who thinks Rivera is better than Jeter is clinically brain dead.
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  3. 05-19-12 11:01 PM #38
    InTheDrink
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyBear View Post
    Not necessarily. Trevor Hoffman is no guarantee for the Hall of Fame. Lot of voters won't vote for Rivera because he is a relief pitcher and so what if he is the greatest at his position...at the end of the day, he is still a relief pitcher. If he was really good, he would be a starter. But that's besides the point. Anyone who thinks Rivera is better than Jeter is clinically brain dead.
    Just stop posting now

    And yes Hoffman is a lock but that's immaterial...did you know mo is the greatest postseason pitcher ever?
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  4. 05-19-12 11:01 PM #39
    BuddyBear
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    If you take a look here, you see that Rivera is no guarantee for the HOF by objective standards (i.e. not emotionally invested fans' standards).

    http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...iverma01.shtml
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  5. 05-19-12 11:03 PM #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyBear View Post
    Not necessarily. Trevor Hoffman is no guarantee for the Hall of Fame. Lot of voters won't vote for Rivera because he is a relief pitcher and so what if he is the greatest at his position...at the end of the day, he is still a relief pitcher. If he was really good, he would be a starter. But that's besides the point. Anyone who thinks Rivera is better than Jeter is clinically brain dead.
    Sorry anyone who doesn't think Rivera is a 100% lock first ballot hall of famer is clinically brain dead pal.....

    The question is who is the greater Yankee......and actually Rivera was a better pitcher than Jeter was a shortstop if you wanna argue that
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  6. 05-19-12 11:05 PM #41
    Br0nxer
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheDrink View Post
    Just stop posting now

    And yes Hoffman is a lock but that's immaterial...did you know mo is the greatest postseason pitcher ever?

    don't even waste your time drinker

    this kids brain flatlined a long time ago
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  7. 05-19-12 11:07 PM #42
    InTheDrink
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    Quote Originally Posted by Br0nxer View Post
    don't even waste your time drinker

    this kids brain flatlined a long time ago


    Sbr founder banner and I never fukkin heard of him
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  8. 05-19-12 11:08 PM #43
    BuddyBear
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    I am not going to argue because Rivera will get into the HOF. I know that. My point is he is a relief pitcher. Anyone who is a relief pitcher is a relief pitcher because they are not good enough to be a starter. If you are good enough to be a starter you will be (i.e. Neftali Feliz) The fact that he is the best relief pitcher is irrelevant. The fact remains he is a relief pitcher who accumulated saves which is an overrated statistic accroding to the baseball research community. Sorry,but he is not even the best pitcher on his team.
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  9. 05-19-12 11:11 PM #44
    BuddyBear
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheDrink View Post


    Sbr founder banner and I never fukkin heard of him

    Was here posting day 1.
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  10. 05-19-12 11:13 PM #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyBear View Post
    I am not going to argue because Rivera will get into the HOF. I know that. My point is he is a relief pitcher. Anyone who is a relief pitcher is a relief pitcher because they are not good enough to be a starter. If you are good enough to be a starter you will be (i.e. Neftali Feliz) The fact that he is the best relief pitcher is irrelevant. The fact remains he is a relief pitcher who accumulated saves which is an overrated statistic in the baseball community. Sorry,but he is not even the best pitcher on his team.
    Not about save statistics......It's about locking down the fukkin game every ninth inning for over a decade, and locking down the 8th and 9th inning in the playoffs.......How many bullpen blowups do you see every day in the MLB late in the game?

    Rivera was unreal man.....ridiculous you are even arguing this
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  11. 05-19-12 11:18 PM #46
    BuddyBear
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    Nobody said Rivera is not good. He is definitely elite. I said he is a relief pitcher and that should count for something. Not all positions are created equally. And to compare him to one of the top SS in the history of the game is idiotic. Compare him with Hoffman or Wagner or Franco is fine but to compare him with Jeter...well, there is really no comparison to be made. Jeter's WAR is nearly double to Rivera (75.8 vs. 39.4, see Fangraphs). If you are not even the best pitcher on your own team, you have no business being compared with one of the best players in history.

    Someone asked the question, and I gave a legit response. Sorry if the answer is not to your liking.
    Last edited by BuddyBear; 05-19-12 at 11:33 PM.
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  12. 05-19-12 11:42 PM #47
    jjgold
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    Mariana wins in a landslide

    They never would win one world series without him

    Pitching wins period
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  13. 05-19-12 11:52 PM #48
    BuddyBear
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjgold View Post
    Mariana wins in a landslide

    They never would win one world series without him

    Pitching wins period
    Please, enough nonsense. Nobody knows how things would have played out since we don't have a crystal ball, but more than likely, they would have won the same number of World Series with or without him.
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  14. 05-20-12 08:27 AM #49
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    Rivera edges Jeter. For a loooong time the Yankees had 27 outs to score runs and their opponents only had 24. Jeter couldn't make that type of difference.
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  15. 05-20-12 08:55 AM #50
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    Rivera no question about it
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  16. 05-20-12 10:55 AM #51
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    I know you guys generally dislike numbers and statistics and prefer your emotions and feelings, but almost every year Jeter has been more valuable to the Yankees than Rivera:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...26&position=SS

    vs.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...844&position=P


    I believe anyone who says that Rivera is more valuable to the Yankees needs to rethink how they understand baseball.
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  17. 05-20-12 05:01 PM #52
    InTheDrink
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuddyBear View Post
    I know you guys generally dislike numbers and statistics and prefer your emotions and feelings, but almost every year Jeter has been more valuable to the Yankees than Rivera:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...26&position=SS

    vs.

    http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx...844&position=P


    I believe anyone who says that Rivera is more valuable to the Yankees needs to rethink how they understand baseball.
    id posted before that im on jeters side but if you're going to numbers that were contrived by people with biases then let's make sure that we're clear that a closer and a position player comparison is always apples to oranges and cant be done objectively

    people have tinkered with how these stats are calculated and validate them based on, gasp, how they fit their emotions and feelings
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