[YPS]

At the moment i have 106.000 betfair points and i have to pay a commission of 3,64% ! (instead of 2,3)

Not enough they increased the the base commission rate to 6,5%, they also reduced the discount rate to this scheme:

0 - 999 0%
1,000 - 3,999 1%
4,000 - 6,999 2%
7,000 - 10,999 3%
11,000 - 14,999 4%
15,000 - 18,999 5%
19,000 - 20,999 6%
21,000 - 22,999 8%
23,000 - 25,999 10%
26,000 - 28,999 12%
29,000 - 31,999 14%
32,000 - 35,999 16%
36,000 - 39,999 20%
40,000 - 43,999 22%
44,000 - 48,999 24%
49,000 - 54,999 26%
55,000 - 60,999 30%
61,000 - 66,999 32%
67,000 - 72,999 34%
73,000 - 79,999 36%
80,000 - 87,999 40%
88,000 - 95,999 42%
96,000 - 107,999 44%
108,000 - 125,999 46%
126,000- 50%

That means UK customers needs lousy 23.000 betfair points for a 3,6% commission,
i need a minimum of 96.000 bf points for a 3,64% commission.

That is completely unfair. And greedy

And no, i´m not from Russia, Ukraine or Serbia, i´m from Austria

[tommygun]

You must do alright there hareeba! or very poorly to have 49,000pts, well done, or unlucky?

[allin1]

certainly not an arber or trader

so I s'pose that qualifies me as a handicapper?

not necessarily

do you bet a lot of 3 way money lines on soccer instead of AH lines?

so no hedging? just straight betting?

and no math models either? just... instinct?

you must be making a lot of bets or at least huge ones to have such a discount at betfair and unless you are hedging/arbing your bets at pinny matchbook and sbo then... you must be a constant winner... either that or a rich guy with deep pockets. well done.

[jjgold]

matchbook is underrated

pinny, matchbook and betfair all they leaders of the industry period with zero competiton other than sbobet for asian soccer handicaps

[Hareeba!]

not necessarily

do you bet a lot of 3 way money lines on soccer instead of AH lines?

so no hedging? just straight betting?

and no math models either? just... instinct?

you must be making a lot of bets or at least huge ones to have such a discount at betfair and unless you are hedging/arbing your bets at pinny matchbook and sbo then... you must be a constant winner... either that or a rich guy with deep pockets. well done.

I tend to bet more AH than 1x2 in soccer.

Not a hedger, I leave that to the landscapers

Most of my Betfair volume is on racing. I find and follow good judges. Also make a lot of bets 7 days/week based on ratings for volume with no expectation of net profit or loss but just strategy to boost commission payments to stay out of PC territory and to maintain commission discount.

Certainly not a rich guy with deep pockets!

[allin1]

make a lot of bets 7 days/week based on ratings for volume with no expectation of net profit or loss but just strategy to boost commission payments to stay out of PC territory and to maintain commission discount.

how exactly based on ratings for volume?

[Hareeba!]

how exactly based on ratings for volume?

As the PC is assessed on having relatively low commission paid as compared to profits generated, the idea is to employ a strategy which creates plenty of turnover, generating commission payments but insignificant net gain/loss. Using good ratings it isn't too difficult to find bets which at Betfair's low juice can break-even or show just marginal profits thus keeping commissions paid at a relatively high percentage of overall profits.

[tommygun]

Hareeba! how are your points so high? Do you lose a lot? The highest i've got up to was 20,000pts and thats when I was wagering $5000 minimum per trade on tennis.
Do you lay horses or just back? How much money do you keep in your betfair wallets?
I'm very interested. You don't have to answer all I just want to get more of an understanding.

[kkkkk]

Its not about the signle bet! if you trade even 5000 then when you cover you can have a net profit ot 5 usd, theoretically. dont forget the famous game between Nadal and Federer where 52 milions were traded and betfair announced just 17 000 net profit for them - > 340k for the players(0.6% of the 52M!).so what counts is net result.

[tommygun]

Its not about the signle bet! if you trade even 5000 then when you cover you can have a net profit ot 5 usd, theoretically. dont forget the famous game between Nadal and Federer where 52 milions were traded and betfair announced just 17 000 net profit for them - > 340k for the players(0.6% of the 52M!).so what counts is net result.

so what are u trying to tell me about hareeba!?

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba! how are your points so high? Do you lose a lot? The highest i've got up to was 20,000pts and thats when I was wagering $5000 minimum per trade on tennis.
Do you lay horses or just back? How much money do you keep in your betfair wallets?
I'm very interested. You don't have to answer all I just want to get more of an understanding.

I win but not overly much relative to turnover and commission due to the strategy I outlined.
To maintain 49,000 pts balance for 40% discount requires generating an avg. 7,350 pts per week. Just one $500 loser earns me 103 pts. Winners a whole lot more.
I rarely lay but do when I'm playing a matched bet on a freeplay from another bookie, usually on a golf tournament.
My account balance hovers around the $50k mark.

[corporatecoward]

Is that all?

I have over 100k in each book of sportsbet, iasbet, paddypower, will hill, bet365, unibet, ladbrokes and victor chandler (vicbet).

[tommygun]

I win but not overly much relative to turnover and commission due to the strategy I outlined.
To maintain 49,000 pts balance for 40% discount requires generating an avg. 7,350 pts per week. Just one $500 loser earns me 103 pts. Winners a whole lot more.
I rarely lay but do when I'm playing a matched bet on a freeplay from another bookie, usually on a golf tournament.
My account balance hovers around the $50k mark.

nice work, i pictured you as a layer for some reason, if you're backing winners you are killing it. how much research do u do?

[Hareeba!]

nice work, i pictured you as a layer for some reason, if you're backing winners you are killing it. how much research do u do?

None in the traditional handicapping sense.
Only into profitable angles to use race ratings and finding good people and services to follow.

[Daverrd]

Hareeba, have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Just wanted to ask if you have tried the WBX exchange?

I joined the other day and found an old article that they match commission discounts from other exchanges (http://www.prlog.org/10115420-wbx-to...sion-rate.html). I emailed them to find out if it’s still offered and they said yes.

So I managed to get my discount rate carried over from Betfair which I thought was decent, and managed to get my bets matched (mostly betting on NBA and Premier League). Thought it might be useful for you or anyone else in here with good discount rates at Betfair/Betdaq.

[Hareeba!]

Hareeba, have enjoyed reading your posts in this thread. Just wanted to ask if you have tried the WBX exchange?

I joined the other day and found an old article that they match commission discounts from other exchanges (http://www.prlog.org/10115420-wbx-to...sion-rate.html). I emailed them to find out if it’s still offered and they said yes.

So I managed to get my discount rate carried over from Betfair which I thought was decent, and managed to get my bets matched (mostly betting on NBA and Premier League). Thought it might be useful for you or anyone else in here with good discount rates at Betfair/Betdaq.

No. Never really looked closely into them. Not sure they can really offer me anything more than I can get at Betfair and Matchbook. And they only offer EUR and GBP I think?

How do they compare with Matchbook for NBA and EPL? I'd think with zero comm. Matchbook would be a better option currently?

[Daverrd]

No. Never really looked closely into them. Not sure they can really offer me anything more than I can get at Betfair and Matchbook. And they only offer EUR and GBP I think?

How do they compare with Matchbook for NBA and EPL? I'd think with zero comm. Matchbook would be a better option currently?

Yeah at the moment no AUD, but I read AUD will be added soon (http://www.aussportsbetting.com/bett...r-reviews/wbx/).

So far I've got some decent bets down on both sports at WBX with no issues. The problem with Matchbook is that I read that the commission they charge is on both wins and losses. Still a lot better than Betfair commission model though.

[Hareeba!]

At the moment i have 106.000 betfair points and i have to pay a commission of 3,64% ! (instead of 2,3)

Not enough they increased the the base commission rate to 6,5%, they also reduced the discount rate to this scheme:

0 - 999 0%
1,000 - 3,999 1%
4,000 - 6,999 2%
7,000 - 10,999 3%
11,000 - 14,999 4%
15,000 - 18,999 5%
19,000 - 20,999 6%
21,000 - 22,999 8%
23,000 - 25,999 10%
26,000 - 28,999 12%
29,000 - 31,999 14%
32,000 - 35,999 16%
36,000 - 39,999 20%
40,000 - 43,999 22%
44,000 - 48,999 24%
49,000 - 54,999 26%
55,000 - 60,999 30%
61,000 - 66,999 32%
67,000 - 72,999 34%
73,000 - 79,999 36%
80,000 - 87,999 40%
88,000 - 95,999 42%
96,000 - 107,999 44%
108,000 - 125,999 46%
126,000- 50%

That means UK customers needs lousy 23.000 betfair points for a 3,6% commission,
i need a minimum of 96.000 bf points for a 3,64% commission.

That is completely unfair. And greedy

And no, i´m not from Russia, Ukraine or Serbia, i´m from Austria

That's horrendous and seems on the surface to be totally unfair.

But is there some justification for Betfair's position in other countries?

For example, in Australia, Betfair did increase the base commission rate for racing from 5% to 6.5% when they were slugged with the 1.5% racefields turnover levy. That was their justification for the increase in their commission on racing.

Are there extra taxes they have to pay in the countries where they have increased commission rates which might justify their action?

I don't know. Just asking.

[corporatecoward]

Why wouldn't you just bet with ladbrokes, there odds are good and you will get the bet amount you want on anything. At betfair you may only get partially accepted, in fact you will encounter that often. Plus the tax on your winnings.

[Hareeba!]

Why wouldn't you just bet with ladbrokes, there odds are good and you will get the bet amount you want on anything. At betfair you may only get partially accepted, in fact you will encounter that often. Plus the tax on your winnings.

The end of the world cometh the day I can get more accepted at Ladbrokes than at Betfair.

[superhans]

Why wouldn't you just bet with ladbrokes, there odds are good and you will get the bet amount you want on anything. At betfair you may only get partially accepted, in fact you will encounter that often. Plus the tax on your winnings.

Problem with Ladbrokes is that most UK bettors have either had their sportsbook account closed, or limited. Is their exchange completely separate from their sportsbook?

No one i know is prepared to take the risk and start winning there. I did ask their customer service department and they said it should be ok. Should is not good enough for me

[tommygun]

Problem with Ladbrokes is that most UK bettors have either had their sportsbook account closed, or limited. Is their exchange completely separate from their sportsbook?

No one i know is prepared to take the risk and start winning there. I did ask their customer service department and they said it should be ok. Should is not good enough for me

ladbrokes exchange unavailable to australian residents

[jjgold]

Ladbrokes Exchange is not even on the radar

Betdaq not even on the radar

They are not ready yet to compete

[allin1]

Ladbrokes Exchange is not even on the radar

Betdaq not even on the radar

They are not ready yet to compete

betdaq = ladbrokes exchange

on wikipedia it says "BETDAQ is the second largest betting exchange operator with 7% market share"

probably not true anymore

[allin1]

None in the traditional handicapping sense.
Only into profitable angles to use race ratings and finding good people and services to follow.

so basically all your bets are made by tailing others?

[TFC]

That's horrendous and seems on the surface to be totally unfair.

But is there some justification for Betfair's position in other countries?

For example, in Australia, Betfair did increase the base commission rate for racing from 5% to 6.5% when they were slugged with the 1.5% racefields turnover levy. That was their justification for the increase in their commission on racing.

Are there extra taxes they have to pay in the countries where they have increased commission rates which might justify their action?

I don't know. Just asking.

Well, I'm glad to hear you agree it is horrendous. No, they have offered no justification for the increase. No, nothing, tax wise, etc., has happened in the countries affected (essentially the rest of the world outside, Ireland, UK and Australia). They are doing it because they believe they can. It is that simple. Although you are presently un-affected in Australia, I wouldn't be too confident that that will always be the case. If this move raises Betfair's profits and no meaningful shift in liquidity to the competition ensues, I think it's fairly safe to assume you will be seeing your increase fairly soon.

[Hareeba!]

Well, I'm glad to hear you agree it is horrendous. No, they have offered no justification for the increase. No, nothing, tax wise, etc., has happened in the countries affected (essentially the rest of the world outside, Ireland, UK and Australia). They are doing it because they believe they can. It is that simple. Although you are presently un-affected in Australia, I wouldn't be too confident that that will always be the case. If this move raises Betfair's profits and no meaningful shift in liquidity to the competition ensues, I think it's fairly safe to assume you will be seeing your increase fairly soon.

I see no way it can increase profits. Turnover must fall as players desert them if they can't see a way to make money any more using Betfair.

[Hareeba!]

so basically all your bets are made by tailing others?

Mostly but not entirely.

[allin1]

Mostly but not entirely.

will the PC ever ruin your betting with betfair?

[Hareeba!]

will the PC ever ruin your betting with betfair?

I hope not. I have a strategy in place which I believe will continue to shield me from the PC.

However, as mentioned in another thread recently, I know of one punter who is happy to be subjected to the PC!

I find it near impossible to follow his reasoning and figures but I've known him for 30+ years, he's an actuary and very smart with numbers. He claims being subject to the PC allows him to make more profits out of Betfair than beforehand!

[allin1]

I don't know the ins and outs of the PC but I find it hard to imagine how paying 60% of your winnings can allow you to make even more profits than without the charge.

[Hareeba!]

I don't know the ins and outs of the PC but I find it hard to imagine how paying 60% of your winnings can allow you to make even more profits than without the charge.

Me either. I don't know the math details but I think the nub of it is that he believes it permits him to make larger wagers without increasing his risk.

[Jaug]

Join BETDAQ boys

[italiano]

guys, can someone explain to me why you do not want to use matchbook, I bet some time with them, I have always enjoyed it,

[jjgold]

no idea

matchbook most underrated book in world