[Monte]

Tony is stupid, 14k must be small peanuts for this book.
All this bad press for nothing, all the 5D fanboys might jump off the train.
And realize that this is nothing but a sucker book, i wish them all the worst. Don't be this dick's money spenders people, pick better books.

[cyberinvestor]

Tony is stupid, 14k must be small peanuts for this book. All this bad press for nothing, all the 5D fanboys might jump off the train. And realize that this is nothing but a sucker book, i wish them all the worst. Don't be this dick's money spenders people, pick better books.

It's not bad press if Tony wins and Tony gets bad press anyways without this situation!

[DRZ]

weird situation hopefully it gets worked out soon

[DEP78]

I think the OP should be paid and Tony probably will if SBR rules in favor of the OP. If there was a +EV game out there at 5Dimes for that long how many other people racked up some good winnings and have had there winnings taken away or are going to be pretty pissed when Tony does take them away? If SBR rules in favor of the OP will Tony agree to make other accounts in the same situation whole?

[BigDaddy]

From where I sit, Tony messed up by offering this game and instead of admitting such he is taking the easy way out and zeroing out this guy's account and changing the game back to where it should have been from the beginning. Kind of like a big "whoops we messed up but you are not getting paid anyway. Thanks for bringing this to our attention, but we are seizing your 14k and closing your account. Because of you we have taken steps to keep this from happening again, but I am sorry that you had to get screwed"

We all know by now what the hand history is going to show. It is going to show an aggressive player going after a hugely +EV game. Bot or no bot if enough players knew about this game it was going to get pounded. If the group I was involved with years ago had seen this game we would have sent in several dozen players and hit this thing all day. I doubt this guy was the only one pounding away at it. He might have been the only one lucky enough to win over 14k on one account. Collectively, I would have taken 5 dimes for 6 figures on this and they would not have been able to prove I used any "illegal device".

To me it all boils down to the mistake in offering the game. It should have been pulled long ago. Because it wasn't I think they need to pay this player and be thankful that a player or group of players that I was involved in didn't really take them to the cleaners.

well said

100% the proof is how fast he changed the payout table.

[HedgeHog]

Looks like Tony is trying to use the "bad line" rule for his casino. Zeroing out the OP's balance is attempted theft plain and simple.

[cyberinvestor]

Looks like Tony is trying to use the "bad line" rule for his casino. Zeroing out the OP's balance is attempted theft plain and simple.

I am sure others played this game and won and Tony must have paid otherwise we would have heard from them. He only voided this guy (or so we know) and it was probably because instead of this guy slowly bleeding Tony on the game (bot or not) he was playing a ridiculous number of hands not just in one day but over the course of a month!

[WVU]

WVU: Everyone was patiently waiting until the OP made the rambling post earlier trying to redefine bot play. That post made him look a lot more suspicious than he originally did.

Sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action.

Agreed and I have advised the player to say nothing else.

[chachi]

5Dimes copied the default DGS Deuces Wild VP game, increased some payouts & renamed the game. 5Dimes management says the game was erroneously boosted up 112%.

...
Tony: yes, i designed the games
Tony: i know the pay tables
...
Tony: we both know the payout is above 100% on this game

Lou -

Does Tony agree to the accuracy of the chat session posted ?

If so then it is obvious he lied to the player, and now is lying to you.

Top-notch A+ behavior there, gotta be worth a downgrade in itself

[SBR Lou]

We are in receipt of all of the hands.

We are reviewing them internally. The player has not given his consent for us to share the hands with the board yet.

[WVU]

We are in receipt of all of the hands.

We are reviewing them internally. The player has not given his consent for us to share the hands with the board yet.

Lou, with all due respect why is it necessary to publicly show the hand history before making a ruling? I say make your ruling and then it should be up to the OP to make the history public. One should have no bearing on the other. I don't think legitimate proof of bot use will be found in the hand history. If that is where you guys are looking then you are not looking in the right place.

[SBR Lou]

Lou, with all due respect why is it necessary to publicly show the hand history before making a ruling? I say make your ruling and then it should be up to the OP to make the history public. One should have no bearing on the other. I don't think legitimate proof of bot use will be found in the hand history. If that is where you guys are looking then you are not looking in the right place.

WVU,

No stones are unturned in a thorough investigation. We needed every single one of his hands at the disputed game as a reference point.

At this point, we are waiting on the player to return our communication. There won't be more updates until he does.

[Boxing Champ]

Do you guys really believe that this guy is non english native from a third world country??
He sounds like an educated American to me, that missed couple of letters here and there to make everyone believe otherwise. My only question to the publick is...Why is the bot use not allowed??
Is it because of the speed of play???

[WVU]

OK, thanks Lou. So whether the plays are posted publicly or not will not have any bearing on the decision, correct?

[WVU]

Do you guys really believe that this guy is non english native from a third world country??
He sounds like an educated American to me, that missed couple of letters here and there to make everyone believe otherwise. My only question to the publick is...Why is the bot use not allowed??
Is it because of the speed of play???

he does not live in North America. English is not his first language

[SBR Lou]

OK, thanks Lou. So whether the plays are posted publicly or not will not have any bearing on the decision, correct?

Right. It simply establishes transparency, but, the player will have to provide his consent for that.

His dispute remains open, he has a message from Bill that he has not yet replied to. At this point, there is nothing more we can add.

[mighty maron]

If this can happen at an A+ book then its just not worth it anymore....I can play the local casino for my fix. It was a big ev game with a strategy that any smart person could divine as being the best. This and the poker shut done makes me very leary to play online over the next year.

Has five dimes confirmed that the chat log is an exact record? If it is, so over the top Tony's statement about making/designing the game......

Hope the man gets paid because he wont get his account back...

[michael_li]

wow another case of using bots.

playing 14-16hs a day thats a lot.... even if you are just sitting down, i mean you have to get up stretch, view news, eat, porn, etc :P

[secretstash]

Lou, with all due respect why is it necessary to publicly show the hand history before making a ruling? I say make your ruling and then it should be up to the OP to make the history public. One should have no bearing on the other. I don't think legitimate proof of bot use will be found in the hand history. If that is where you guys are looking then you are not looking in the right place.

why in the cory111 case with easystreet was everyone demanding to see all the hands?? i myself wanted to see them.. so did u.. why would this case be any different wvu?

im confused here.

-stash

[chachi]

ss - all WVU was confirming/clarifying is that publishing or not publishing the hands publically has zero bearing on any investigation/ruling

[WVU]

why in the cory111 case with easystreet was everyone demanding to see all the hands?? i myself wanted to see them.. so did u.. why would this case be any different wvu?

im confused here.

-stash

You will get to see them. be patient

[WVU]

ss - all WVU was confirming/clarifying is that publishing or not publishing the hands publically has zero bearing on any investigation/ruling

exactly. thanks

[trixtrix]

Do you guys really believe that this guy is non english native from a third world country??

i agree, no third-world citizen can afford a bot in the first place, internet is prolly dial-up

[Boxing Champ]

he does not live in North America. English is not his first language

How do you know that???

[thisisit]

People are saying pay the guy even if he did use a bot, that's just wrong! The rules say no bot use. This is no different then when you have multiple sign ups from the ip address, they say sorry read the rules. Now if they cannot prove that he did use a bot then pay the man, but if they can prove it screw him.

[Santo]

Rules have to be reasonable. The question is whether that bot rule is. I can see arguments being made both ways.

Proving bot use is quite a hard standard to achieve though given any reasonably competent software.

[Ryangene]

Zabula i hope you get your cash that you are owed. I'd like you to respond back here and let the sbr community see your hand history too and give SBR the ok to post what they find out. We all want to know!

[BigFish]

I'm a little surprised at OP's silence since SBR asked him to consent to the release of the hand history. I thought he would've been all over that, in the interest of moving this forward ASAP....which brings me to this thought:

Is it possible that his silence is due to the advice that several posters have given today (including me), imploring him to keep his mouth shut?!?! Remember, this guy isn't all that keen on the English language (we think). Think about it -- ever since we started telling him to keep his mouth shut, he's gone silent. Now SBR is asking him to speak up about something (i.e., give consent), and he remains radio silent.

Is somebody advising him privately, I hope? I think he needs somebody to help him through this by PMing with him. I would do it, but there are many other posters with far greater expertise in this area, I'm just not qualified. Somebody start PMing with this guy and point him in the right direction. (and btw, if the right move is NOT to consent to the release of the hands, that's fine too -- but someone needs to lend this guy a hand. I bet he doesn't know what to do right about now).

Just my .02

[Boxing Champ]

I'm a little surprised at OP's silence since SBR asked him to consent to the release of the hand history. I thought he would've been all over that, in the interest of moving this forward ASAP....which brings me to this thought:

Is it possible that his silence is due to the advice that several posters have given today (including me), imploring him to keep his mouth shut?!?! Remember, this guy isn't all that keen on the English language (we think). Think about it -- ever since we started telling him to keep his mouth shut, he's gone silent. Now SBR is asking him to speak up about something (i.e., give consent), and he remains radio silent.

Is somebody advising him privately, I hope? I think he needs somebody to help him through this by PMing with him. I would do it, but there are many other posters with far greater expertise in this area, I'm just not qualified. Somebody start PMing with this guy and point him in the right direction. (and btw, if the right move is NOT to consent to the release of the hands, that's fine too -- but someone needs to lend this guy a hand. I bet he doesn't know what to do right about now).

Just my .02

Isn't all that keen??? Are you serious??? go back and read his posts. he sounds more like an english teacher rather than a member of a third world country...

[BigFish]

Isn't all that keen??? Are you serious??? go back and read his posts. he sounds more like an english teacher rather than a member of a third world country...

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. He comes off as someone whose first language is something other than English. I do
agree with your earlier post -- that it is possible to fake this, but he's done much more than misplace a few letters. He borders on incomprehensible at times (for me).

[WVU]

One question I would ask the casual observer. Was the problem here the use of a bot or the pay table of this particular game? Evidenced by the fact the payout was immediately taken down and changed I would go with the latter.

[Boxing Champ]

One question I would ask the casual observer. Was the problem here the use of a bot or the pay table of this particular game? Evidenced by the fact the payout was immediately taken down and changed I would go with the latter.

Agreed....

I still don't understand what the big deal is about a bot. it's not like he's making 100,000,000 decisions a second which would be considered illegal. All he's doing is a repetitive action that a 5 year old can do...just a little bit faster and without breaks... WVU..u are absolutely correct, the fact that they took down the game and altered the payout just goes to show that they made a mistake and now refuse to pay for it. The fact that they let him play for a month hoping that he would loose also shows that they had a no loose situation. if he looses....great,if he wins...also not bad...we just throw one of our bot rules in his face and take our money back. That's the only reason i want Tony to pay up...regardless of the fact that "kid used the bot(IMO)".......

[JoeVig]

The rules are the rules, and you agree to them when you play there. All of these questions about "what is wrong with a bot" mean nothing. The rule was posted, and he either did or did not use a bot.

I personally like to see players get paid unless it was just outright fraud. A lot of these books steal enough money through various rules, and have ridiculously high banking fees now.

I think most of these recreational books have a rule that says they can void any "wise guy", "professional" or "syndicate" sports wagers, and the decision of the book is final. That rule is a true license to steal.

[Boxing Champ]

The rules are the rules, and you agree to them when you play there. All of these questions about "what is wrong with a bot" mean nothing. The rule was posted, and he either did or did not use a bot.

I personally like to see players get paid unless it was just outright fraud. A lot of these books steal enough money through various rules, and have ridiculously high banking fees now.

I think most of these recreational books have a rule that says they can void any "wise guy", "professional" or "syndicate" sports wagers, and the decision of the book is final. That rule is a true license to steal.

How do they know you're a wise guy?? If you go on a winning streak of 10 in row and win 50 G's..they will take your money???

[Santo]

If you're making +EV bets (beating the closing line, playing correlated parlays etc). Most don't take the money, just close the account.