[The Kraken]

The sight test?

That sounds real scientific and stuff. Nobody's gut reaction has ever been wrong after all.

[darkhat]

I think last night could help Lebron. Kobe is motivating him.. Skip thought it was good Lebron took it hard.

RealSkipBayless LeBron so shook up by late turnover chose to throw in ball so wouldn't have to take one last heave for tie. Like how hard took it. Good sign

[dlunc3]

I think ill take what I saw from LeBron over the years in Cleveland and what I watched him do in the Finals last June with my OWN DAMN EYES, especially in the 4th quarters...over what some fukkn stats would "say" about him

what did your eyes tell you when jordan had 0 rings when he was lebrons age?

what did your eyes tell you when kobe has missed 18 out of 25 shots with the game on the line and the ball in his hands on the last possession of a post season game?

what did your eyes tell you while kobes game has gotten worse under post season pressure over the course of his career?

noone is saying lebron is perfect or the best ever... but stop acting like kobe has been so much better... esp after kobe was the reason the west sucked in the 4th yest and lebron was the reason the east came back (yet everyone hates on lebron )... kobe played like garbage and missed a crucial ft yet noone says a word about that

[zsr]

Kobes playoff numbers are watered down because of the shaq years. You know as well as I do he doesn't get "worse". I posted in that other thread if you take his playoff numbers without the shaq years it's something like 30 5 and 5 I think.

Your always so quick to defend Lebron, for people to take you serious you need to admit that he played terrible in the finals against Dallas and terrible in the series against the spurs.

[poochiecollins]

It takes a team effort to get a ring. 1 man can not score all of the point. Jordan and Kobe got rings because they had decent teammates around them.

Possibly the smartest post in this thread. Less-than-intelligent people ('LITs') believe that players can win championships by themselves in team sports where no one is overwhelmingly better than everyone else.

Please feel free to enlighten me which seasons he was the best player in basketball??

You're on my side here, but Kobe might never have been the true most valuable player in the league. The year he scored 36 (?) points per game on a bad team might've been the exception. The Hollinger ratings, which have the flaw of benefiting players who shoot a lot, didn't even always have him in the top 10.

Those Cleveland teams were statistically unreal good, too. Best defense in the league, top 3 offensive rebounding, 66 wins. But of course, some people only use stats when they help there argument. Also fukin LOL at that kid saying that bron has accomplished more at 27 than jordan or Kobe. Unfuking real

"some people only use stats when they help there [sic] argument." -- as you're using stats only when it helps your argument. Oh, it doesn't really do that, because almost the same Cleveland team minus LeBron went on to be the worst team in the league his first year away. FAIL.

I must of missed the memo where choking away 2 NBA finals where your team would of otherwise won is accomplishing something

What are you talking about? None of those teams would have gotten to the Finals without LeBron.

Lebron before age 27 Regular Season: 28 7 7 Playoffs: 28 8 7

Thanks for showing us that LBJ is the same monster in the playoffs that he is in the regular season.

I wouldn't so far call LBJ better than Jordan because of the latter's playoff performance (based on NUMERICAL EVIDENCE), but comparisons of LBJ to Kobe are silly. LBJ is at or near the top every year in individual player performance according to advanced metrics, while you could argue that Kobe wasn't even a top 5 player in his prime nor the best player on his own team most of his career.

[teaserpleaser]

Yeah, not that advanced metrics show LeBron to be the best player since his second year in the league or anything.

Lol. I don't like to insult directly, so I'll say that we're not nearly on the same level, intellectually. I'm highly certain you're a teenager, or an adult who didn't graduate college. "Geekus dorkus" is a lame comeback, as well as pointing out repeated quotes. On page one, you said stats don't matter and that you can just tell what player's the best. Yeah, because you're just smarter than everyone else? Only an idiot -- sorry, less than intelligent person -- would say numbers don't matter on performance where most metrics can be numerically measured.

Cut your losses and stop here.

lol cut my loses because some guy on sbr I dont know thinks its lame I made fun of his lame post. Ok guy do you worst bury me we'll have fun.oh and at the graduating college remark was that suposed to cut deep? Any asshole can go to college and graduate these days but not everyone can do my job. A little sensitive are we

[InTheDrink]

what a bunch of dumbass arguments

27 is an arbitrary age that just so happens to be the point when jordan last hadn't won a title and i'll venture to say that no matter what happens lebron will never win six titles....if you're looking for arbitrary numbers why not use the number of years in the league as a more fair comparison

also the yahoo guy that wrote the article has a fukkin hard on for lebron and stops at no end to talk shit about him....also all the heat guys can lick my balls...theyre all fukkin assholes

[zsr]

Is poochie collins serious? Whos troll account is this?

First comparing the Cleveland of last year to lebrons years, than saying Miami wouldn't of made the finals without Lebron. I love the Lebron fans who are so quick to point out his great stats in the regular season, then ignore his TERRIBLE finals numbers.

Just saw his post to teaser too, wow. What a clown. There always so many experts, geniuses, etc on an anonymous Internet forum.

Cut your losses and stop here unreal

[big0mar]

Dwyane better hope the Lakers don't reload before the deadline or he might have to answer for that foul come June.

No team is winning a title with Mike Brown as head coach

[teaserpleaser]

Is poochie collins serious? Whos troll account is this?

First comparing the Cleveland of last year to lebrons years, than saying Miami wouldn't of made the finals without Lebron. I love the Lebron fans who are so quick to point out his great stats in the regular season, then ignore his TERRIBLE finals numbers.

Cut your losses and stop here unreal

I know right I actually laughed loud enough to awake my dog at that ”cut your losses” comment what am I going to lose rep on a forum I rarely post at these days... Whats he going to do shame me on an internet chit chat board was worth a good laugh

[ThaTopMoron]

what did your eyes tell you when jordan had 0 rings when he was lebrons age?

what did your eyes tell you when kobe has missed 18 out of 25 shots with the game on the line and the ball in his hands on the last possession of a post season game?

what did your eyes tell you while kobes game has gotten worse under post season pressure over the course of his career?

noone is saying lebron is perfect or the best ever... but stop acting like kobe has been so much better... esp after kobe was the reason the west sucked in the 4th yest and lebron was the reason the east came back (yet everyone hates on lebron )... kobe played like garbage and missed a crucial ft yet noone says a word about that

so you are saying, LeBron came into the NBA at a younger age than MJ...didn't miss one of his early season to injury... and yet, he is closing in on 10 years and still no ring, and 0-2 in the Finals.

i didn't know MJ lost his first two Finals, or Kobe. MJ and Kobe = 11/13 Finals

LeBron likes to have fun and dance, and play with his friends on the court... he doesn't have the determination that Kobe has or the will to win that MJ had, to prove everyone wrong about him again and again.

[dlunc3]

Lebron was bad in last yrs finals.. there is no denying that... But he was amazing vs Boston and Chicago in the series prior... Not gonna judge a guy off of 6 bad games considering his brilliance over the 700 games he has played in his career. lets not act like he is a terrible postseason player just bc of two subpar series... For the most part he has been great in the postseason.

[big0mar]

LeBron likes to have fun and dance, and play with his friends on the court... he doesn't have the greatest coach of all time, Robert Horry to hit big shots, or hall of fame teammates (until he came to Miami).

Fixed it for you pal.

[big0mar]

And for everyone that likes to bring up how James played against Dallas last year...


How did Kobe Bryant do against Dallas in last year's playoffs?????

[SBR Lou]

LBJ is at or near the top every year in individual player performance according to advanced metrics, while you could argue that Kobe wasn't even a top 5 player in his prime nor the best player on his own team most of his career.

Advanced metrics, lol. It's the game of basketball, really. How complicated is it to simply say, one player has shown throughout his impressive career that he chokes with the game on the line. One player folds like a lawnchair on the biggest stages that he's reached. And one excels under pressure. If you need advanced metrics to answer that Q, then I digress.

And please don't produce some mathematical chart trying to argue that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are mislabeled as clutch... whereas your ringless King is actually (unbeknownst to all folks not privy to the super duper advanced metrics) somehow clutch.

[dlunc3]

so you are saying, LeBron came into the NBA at a younger age than MJ...didn't miss one of his early season to injury... and yet, he is closing in on 10 years and still no ring, and 0-2 in the Finals.

i didn't know MJ lost his first two Finals, or Kobe. MJ and Kobe = 11/13 Finals

LeBron likes to have fun and dance, and play with his friends on the court... he doesn't have the determination that Kobe has or the will to win that MJ had, to prove everyone wrong about him again and again.

Yea since lebron had a shaq/pippen/pau sidekick and a Phil Jackson as a coach... Yea playing on those Cleveland teams in comparison to those bulls/Lakers teams is a fair argument. Eli is better then Marino too right? Weird, I thought this was a team sport.

[big0mar]

Advanced metrics, lol. It's the game of basketball, really. How complicated is it to simply say, one player has shown throughout his impressive career that he chokes with the game on the line. One player folds like a lawnchair on the biggest stages that he's reached. And one excels under pressure. If you need advanced metrics to answer that Q, then I digress.

And please don't produce some mathematical chart trying to argue that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are mislabeled as clutch... whereas your ringless King is actually (unbeknownst to all folks not privy to the super duper advanced metrics) somehow clutch.

How would you describe's LeBron's performance against Boston and Chicago? I would say it was very clutch.

The guy will be clutch 4/5 times, and you'll just focus on the 1 time he didn't come through. Congrats.

[SBR Lou]

How would you describe's LeBron's performance against Boston and Chicago? I would say it was very clutch. The guy will be clutch 4/5 times, and you'll just focus on the 1 time he didn't come through. Congrats.

There are 48M in an NBA game. Lebron is typically dominant for 46 of them.

Forget comparing him to Kobe, that's always going to bring out the ridiculous. Just compare him to Wade in terms of his late-game demeanor, use the advanced metrics to figure out which of them closes out with a killer instinct.

[Soxsfan9]

I can not believe all this talk about how great LeBron is, it comes down to one thing championships!
All sports come down to being number 1 at the end of the year!!

Lebron does not have the killer mentality to lead, the only way he gets a ring is on the back of D-wade!

[dlunc3]

There are 48M in an NBA game. Lebron is typically dominant for 46 of them.

Forget comparing him to Kobe, that's always going to bring out the ridiculous. Just compare him to Wade in terms of his late-game demeanor, use the advanced metrics to figure out which of them closes out with a killer instinct.

by typical you mean typically being a great closer ? for the majority of his career, lebron has been a great closer.... way to just focus on recent history though. Yea, lets judge a guy off 5-10 games out of the 700+ he has played in his career

[Tree Rollins]

No team is winning a title with Mike Brown as head coach

I'm not even gonna argue with you on that one. That guy is a moron.

[dlunc3]

I can not believe all this talk about how great LeBron is, it comes down to one thing championships!
All sports come down to being number 1 at the end of the year!!

Lebron does not have the killer mentality to lead, the only way he gets a ring is on the back of D-wade!

He didnt lead average teams to 60 wins? or lead miami past boston or chic last yr?

so again... eli, dilfer, johnson.... all better then marino right? this isnt golf or tennis... lebron was stuck in cleveland while jordan and kobe had phill and shaq and pippen....comparing team achievements is nonsense up till now

[big0mar]

There are 48M in an NBA game. Lebron is typically dominant for 46 of them.

Forget comparing him to Kobe, that's always going to bring out the ridiculous. Just compare him to Wade in terms of his late-game demeanor, use the advanced metrics to figure out which of them closes out with a killer instinct.

The metrics show that LeBron is better:

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

If you're going to rely on how you perceive their "demeanor", then you'll be hard pressed to convince me of anything. I could care less about the expression on their faces, or whether they scowl when the camera is on them. I do recall LeBron showing a killer instinct when he carried the team in the Boston and Chicago series (ironically you never hear anyone say Derrick Rose got embarrassed by LeBron in the 4th quarter of that series?).

[darkhat]

Advanced metrics, lol. It's the game of basketball, really. How complicated is it to simply say, one player has shown throughout his impressive career that he chokes with the game on the line. One player folds like a lawnchair on the biggest stages that he's reached. And one excels under pressure. If you need advanced metrics to answer that Q, then I digress.

And please don't produce some mathematical chart trying to argue that Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant are mislabeled as clutch... whereas your ringless King is actually (unbeknownst to all folks not privy to the super duper advanced metrics) somehow clutch.

Lou lays it down. Those fukin charts don't show so much involved in being clutch. Key Games, clutch moments at key times, Finals, Rivals, against teams with winning records... Must win situations, etc etc etc..

[poochiecollins]

And then if we get into lebron in the finals Against the spurs he shot 30% (but you insist he played good, another opinion, huh?) And against the mavs we all know he was just pathetic in the 4th quarter. No need to even search for the stats.

Dallas last year kept LeBron down pretty well in the regular season. The Mavs matched up well against him for whatever reason. Against San Antonio, it's pretty hard to have good stat lines when you're surrounded with a garbage team who was pretty lucky to even get to the Finals. Oh wait, then you said...

Thats not getting into failing to win a title with a cleveland team that was unbelievable year in and year out.

I totally agree. And he's not the best actor in doing it.

Anyone who believes that a person probably worth well over nine figures would risk their golden goose of a profession and legacy to gamble on their own team to make a few extra bucks should be locked in a padded room.

[poochiecollins]

kobe was the best player of the 2000-2010 decade.

False. His Hollinger ranking, which has the flaw of overrating players who shoot a lot, was between 3 and 15 going back to 2003.

who cares how many points you avg and all that.

Yeah, it's not that games are won by the team with the most points or anything.

if you cant hit 2 FTs with the game on the line, you will always be viewed as a choker

Because it's well known that free-throws can just be WILLED into the basket. Never mind skill! Don't base your perception of life off of Disney movies, bro.

[zsr]

Wait a minute there, collins, I thought you loved stats?

How about how they had a top 5 defense, top 3 offensive rebounding, and dominated the regular season every year?

Boy, what a garbage team.

Better cut your losses and stop now

[SBR Lou]

The metrics show that LeBron is better: http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

When you need to point to random numbers to argue a point, because of what you're saying being regarded as preposterous, that just might be the clue that you're wrong.

[big0mar]

Wait a minute there, collins, I thought you loved stats?

How about how they had a top 5 defense, top 3 offensive rebounding, and dominated the regular season every year?

Boy, what a garbage team.

Better cut your losses and stop now

Who on that Cavs team would have started on any of the Lakers' or Celtics' championship teams, other than LeBron???

When your second best player is Anderson Varejao, your team isn't very talented. Not to mention that Mike Brown was the head coach.

[Tree Rollins]

No matter what Lebron ever accomplishes, i think i'll always remember him as one of the biggest cowards in sports history. And he worked really hard to earn that. That could change, but a LOT would have to happen.

[big0mar]

When you need to point to random numbers to argue a point, because of what you're saying being regarded as preposterous, that just might be the clue that you're wrong.

The numbers aren't random at all. They're the numbers that disprove your theory. The only thing you have to support your theory regarding individual players are team accomplishments and your interpretation of their facial expressions

[ngates815]

Who on that Cavs team would have started on any of the Lakers' or Celtics' championship teams, other than LeBron???

When your second best player is Anderson Varejao, your team isn't very talented. Not to mention that Mike Brown was the head coach.

Big Z was the 2nd best player...

[poochiecollins]

lol cut my loses because some guy on sbr I dont know thinks its lame I made fun of his lame post. Ok guy do you worst bury me we'll have fun.oh and at the graduating college remark was that suposed to cut deep? Any asshole can go to college and graduate these days but not everyone can do my job. A little sensitive are we

Translation: "I just got crushed in argument and I'm clearly intellectually outclassed, so I'm going to resort to ad hominem to annoy him if I'm lucky."

[zsr]

Who on that Cavs team would have started on any of the Lakers' or Celtics' championship teams, other than LeBron???

When your second best player is Anderson Varejao, your team isn't very talented. Not to mention that Mike Brown was the head coach.

Mike brown is a great defensive coach.

I'm just saying, you guys love stats, so going by stats, those cavs teams were the best in the east for about 4 years in a row.

[zsr]

Translation: "I just got crushed in argument and I'm clearly intellectually outclassed, so I'm going to resort to ad hominem to annoy him if I'm lucky."

This guy keeps getting better and better

Someone as smart as you think you are, arguing on an anonymous gambling forum

Almost unreal