1. #5111
    sando
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    Quote Originally Posted by brumbies View Post
    why don't you trust paddy? I remember them paying out on obama backers before the actual election.

    are you saying they limit fast?
    Yes mate that's exactly what I'm saying, it's poor form. If your lines are sharp then who gives a fukc if you have winning punters on your books. First of all they make up less than 8% (at most) of your total customer base. Secondly if you get the lines spot on then you should have close to a 50/50 split in the $$ wagered, and then who gives a shit who wins or loses because at -110 (average) juice a book wins regardless of the result.

    Example - A medium to large sized sports book takes 1M on an NBA playoff game at -110/$1.90 odds - let's say NY +4 @ Indiana for example. Their opening line and pre match line adjustments are super sharp all the way through from opening to closing lines and they end up in a scenario where 51.2% of the money is on the Pacers (-4) ATS and 48.8% of the money is on the Knicks (+4) ATS. This means they are holding $512,000 on the Pacers and $488,000 on the Knicks, so yeah if you isolated this one game from the bigger scheme of things then the books would prefer the Pacers cover ATS, however in the bigger picture they don't give a shit because they make money no matter who wins and that is the goal. Get your lines right and make sure you end with something roughly resembling a 50/50 split and you can't lose (the exact % of money required as a minimum on any 1 team to ensure a guaranteed profit directly correlates to the juice or vigorish that is being charged to the customer). As long as they are in a position where they make money no matter which team wins or covers (which isn't always the case) then they don't care because in a 2 horse race everything evens out over time. For instance if you flip a coin 10 times you could easily flip 10 heads or 10 tails in a row - no big deal, however if you flip a coin a million times then the laws of mathematics say it is virtually impossible to end up with anything worse than 50.1% to 49.9% and even that scenario is extremely unlikely. Flip a coin 10 million times and the most outrageous scenario you would come up with is 50.01% to 49.99% - get the idea? It's mathematics and the books won't waste their time worrying about these things, all they need to do is ensure a guaranteed profit no matter who wins/covers and therefore if you are doing this correctly then why the fukc do you care if you have winning gamblers on your books. Winners/Sharp gamblers help you sharpen your lines to begin with and every decent sized book with a decent reputation that has been operating for 3+ years or so accepts that some of their punters will be winners. You cannot maintain a customer base of 100% losers - it is just not possible, however Paddy owned books (of which there are many) seem to strive towards this unattainable goal harder than most.

    **The concept I have been talking about is the goal every sports book strives to achieve on every single ATS line that they release but of course there are many times when no matter what they do they end up with a lopsided scenario with anything up to 65-70% wagered on one team and 30-35% wagered on the other team and in this scenario the books will of course be rooting for the 30-35% team to cover and when they don't you end up in the sort of scenario will people will say things like "Vegas just got buried on that game". It does happen. If it didn't then the bookmakers would just be absolutely overflowing with pure profits and there would be far less of us gambling on sports...

  2. #5112
    davopnz
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    gsw is a gift tomorrow

  3. #5113
    fitguy67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sando View Post
    Yes mate that's exactly what I'm saying, it's poor form. If your lines are sharp then who gives a fukc if you have winning punters on your books. First of all they make up less than 8% (at most) of your total customer base. Secondly if you get the lines spot on then you should have close to a 50/50 split in the $$ wagered, and then who gives a shit who wins or loses because at -110 (average) juice a book wins regardless of the result.

    Example - A medium to large sized sports book takes 1M on an NBA playoff game at -110/$1.90 odds - let's say NY +4 @ Indiana for example. Their opening line and pre match line adjustments are super sharp all the way through from opening to closing lines and they end up in a scenario where 51.2% of the money is on the Pacers (-4) ATS and 48.8% of the money is on the Knicks (+4) ATS. This means they are holding $512,000 on the Pacers and $488,000 on the Knicks, so yeah if you isolated this one game from the bigger scheme of things then the books would prefer the Pacers cover ATS, however in the bigger picture they don't give a shit because they make money no matter who wins and that is the goal. Get your lines right and make sure you end with something roughly resembling a 50/50 split and you can't lose (the exact % of money required as a minimum on any 1 team to ensure a guaranteed profit directly correlates to the juice or vigorish that is being charged to the customer). As long as they are in a position where they make money no matter which team wins or covers (which isn't always the case) then they don't care because in a 2 horse race everything evens out over time. For instance if you flip a coin 10 times you could easily flip 10 heads or 10 tails in a row - no big deal, however if you flip a coin a million times then the laws of mathematics say it is virtually impossible to end up with anything worse than 50.1% to 49.9% and even that scenario is extremely unlikely. Flip a coin 10 million times and the most outrageous scenario you would come up with is 50.01% to 49.99% - get the idea? It's mathematics and the books won't waste their time worrying about these things, all they need to do is ensure a guaranteed profit no matter who wins/covers and therefore if you are doing this correctly then why the fukc do you care if you have winning gamblers on your books. Winners/Sharp gamblers help you sharpen your lines to begin with and every decent sized book with a decent reputation that has been operating for 3+ years or so accepts that some of their punters will be winners. You cannot maintain a customer base of 100% losers - it is just not possible, however Paddy owned books (of which there are many) seem to strive towards this unattainable goal harder than most.

    **The concept I have been talking about is the goal every sports book strives to achieve on every single ATS line that they release but of course there are many times when no matter what they do they end up with a lopsided scenario with anything up to 65-70% wagered on one team and 30-35% wagered on the other team and in this scenario the books will of course be rooting for the 30-35% team to cover and when they don't you end up in the sort of scenario will people will say things like "Vegas just got buried on that game". It does happen. If it didn't then the bookmakers would just be absolutely overflowing with pure profits and there would be far less of us gambling on sports...
    unfortunately, among sportsbooks...only pinny has this educated "sharp bettors keep our lines sharp (thus balanced, thus profitable)" attitude...

    exchanges also don't give a fook if u win or lose, cuz it's player v. player...but i just can't "get the hang" of laying...and the gymnastics involved in taking into account beforehand commissions you may pay later...Betfair's starter-rate of 5% commission on winnings sucks most of the "player v player" value out of the line...Betdaq has a flat 3% commission so is better value generally on the same play IF you can get it...they have a great business model vs. Betfair but haven't really seemed to catch on, so they lack volume and variety vs BF...all Betfair enthusiasts should at least have Daq and use it to the extent that they can before "topping up" with BF to reduce commissions (Daq has free commissions for the first month BTW)

    let me make a big shoutout here for, by far my favorite exchange...Matchbook...the exchange that plays like a book (ie. you want to offset a play...just bak the other side...no diddling around with the ultimately-unnecessary confusions related to laying)...Matchy is the only thing i've found that consistently beats (after-the commissions are accounted for--easily in this case) Pinny and Dimey...takes only a short while to get used to...BUT for plain vanilla plays only (no multis, props of any kind...everything has "two simple sides" thus no need for laying) but prices are absolutely bargain basement (must be what other punters actually want)...only problem is not enough use it yet so you are "limited" by lack of volume...but there's no technical limit on any position u may want as long as there's enough money willing to take the other side...if you don't have Matchy, you don't know what you're missing in line-shopping bargains

    i too am a multi-book skrill-backstopped line shopper...and tho i have many books...80% of my plays get done at Matchy, Pinny, Dimey, and Harry (heritage)...but EVERY book you have ready gets used at least once a week and "comes thru" for you when u least expect it...ideal is to have a whole stable of books viewable at the same time on the same odds-hub (i find SBR's free one works just fine for the 99% of plain-vanilla plays i'm shopping for)...and have them all Skrill-able...
    Last edited by fitguy67; 05-10-13 at 09:28 AM.

  4. #5114
    sando
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    NBA

    1.5* Spurs m/l (+115 Pinnacle)
    1* Heat @ Bulls Under 186.5 (-109 Sportingbet)


  5. #5115
    pipita17
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    sando, since you wrote down your experiences with bookies can you write down few tips about money management, it would be really helpful. without proper mm i think that nobody has a chance in long battle against books. cheers mate and best of luck.

  6. #5116
    JM92
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    Quote Originally Posted by sando View Post
    NBA

    1.5* Spurs m/l (+115 Pinnacle)
    1* Heat @ Bulls Under 186.5 (-109 Sportingbet)

    Same page tonight. Wanted to play the Heat, but the line is more than gone by now. GL

  7. #5117
    davopnz
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    what answers do the spurs have for gsw?

  8. #5118
    the tross
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    Hey Rabbitbrew or Sando, any netball plays?. The Heat/bulls total really put a spanner in the works today dam it!

  9. #5119
    sando
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    AFL

    1.5* Port Adelaide -10 ($1.92 Luxbet)

  10. #5120
    sando
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    AFL

    2* West Coast -21.5 ($1.89 Sportsbet)

    1.5* Sydney +15.5 ($1.93 Bet365)

    1.5* Collingwood 1-39 ($2.30 Sportsbet)



    NRL

    3* Bulldogs -4.5 ($1.92 Sportsbet)

    Brisbane @ Parramatta
    1.5* Over 36.5 ($1.90 Sportsbet)
    1* Eels +6.5 ($1.91 Sportingbet)

  11. #5121
    sando
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    Quote Originally Posted by the tross View Post
    Hey Rabbitbrew or Sando, any netball plays?. The Heat/bulls total really put a spanner in the works today dam it!
    Hopefully Mr. Rabbitbrew will post his plays at some stage, but I do have 1 myself.

    Adelaide @ West Coast
    1.5* West Coast Fever +10.5 ($1.90 Sportingbet)
    *No time for a write up sorry, very busy.

  12. #5122
    Rabbitbrew
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    Game about to start.
    Firebirds two best player late withdrawal.
    Take Tactix (+14.5) if you can get on. Not to much though.

  13. #5123
    16johnnymac
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    I took west coast -22 1/2 can they win or should I say will I win my bet

  14. #5124
    the tross
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    I missed the jump, but thanks all the same bol.

  15. #5125
    Rabbitbrew
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    Quote Originally Posted by the tross View Post
    I missed the jump, but thanks all the same bol.
    Good. Getting smashed!

  16. #5126
    therealdealau
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    Eagles need to come out with more energy this half, they really are a shadow of themselves early this season.

  17. #5127
    16johnnymac
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    Winner winner !! 108 - 82

  18. #5128
    therealdealau
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    50 metre free at the end, CASH IT

  19. #5129
    sando
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    Epic win/cover by the Doggies. Been a rough start to the NRL season, it's about time some luck rolled my way. Decent day so far, up a little bit in NBA and AFL and a lazy 3 units on the NRL. Got plays pending in NBA, AFL, NRL & Netball. Good luck to any who are tailing...

  20. #5130
    Jago2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by sando View Post
    Epic win/cover by the Doggies. Been a rough start to the NRL season, it's about time some luck rolled my way. Decent day so far, up a little bit in NBA and AFL and a lazy 3 units on the NRL. Got plays pending in NBA, AFL, NRL & Netball. Good luck to any who are tailing...
    How bout' Sydney being down 33-10 at the half, lets see if they can man up grow some balls and play.

  21. #5131
    Aussiefalconfan
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    Woo tailed para +6 and live bet broncos +1.5.

  22. #5132
    Jago2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jago2008 View Post
    How bout' Sydney being down 33-10 at the half, lets see if they can man up grow some balls and play.
    wow I think I demonstrated absolutely no knowledge abt this sport w/ this post, but to be honest this is the first time I've bet AFL, it is entertaining. My expertise is in American sports obv.

  23. #5133
    sando
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    Quote Originally Posted by sando View Post
    NBA

    Haven't posted any NBA plays last few days, but have been doing quite well in NBA over the last few weeks.

    Getting in early as this line won't last.

    NY @ Indiana
    2.5* Pacers -3.5 (-108 Sportsbet)

    The line will be -4 to -5 or by game time.

    Adding...

    NBA

    1.5* Grizzlies -5 (-108 Sportsbet)
    Playoffs + Memphis @ home + no Westbrook = money

  24. #5134
    brumbies
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    Quote Originally Posted by sando View Post
    Yes mate that's exactly what I'm saying, it's poor form. If your lines are sharp then who gives a fukc if you have winning punters on your books. First of all they make up less than 8% (at most) of your total customer base. Secondly if you get the lines spot on then you should have close to a 50/50 split in the $$ wagered, and then who gives a shit who wins or loses because at -110 (average) juice a book wins regardless of the result.

    Example - A medium to large sized sports book takes 1M on an NBA playoff game at -110/$1.90 odds - let's say NY +4 @ Indiana for example. Their opening line and pre match line adjustments are super sharp all the way through from opening to closing lines and they end up in a scenario where 51.2% of the money is on the Pacers (-4) ATS and 48.8% of the money is on the Knicks (+4) ATS. This means they are holding $512,000 on the Pacers and $488,000 on the Knicks, so yeah if you isolated this one game from the bigger scheme of things then the books would prefer the Pacers cover ATS, however in the bigger picture they don't give a shit because they make money no matter who wins and that is the goal. Get your lines right and make sure you end with something roughly resembling a 50/50 split and you can't lose (the exact % of money required as a minimum on any 1 team to ensure a guaranteed profit directly correlates to the juice or vigorish that is being charged to the customer). As long as they are in a position where they make money no matter which team wins or covers (which isn't always the case) then they don't care because in a 2 horse race everything evens out over time. For instance if you flip a coin 10 times you could easily flip 10 heads or 10 tails in a row - no big deal, however if you flip a coin a million times then the laws of mathematics say it is virtually impossible to end up with anything worse than 50.1% to 49.9% and even that scenario is extremely unlikely. Flip a coin 10 million times and the most outrageous scenario you would come up with is 50.01% to 49.99% - get the idea? It's mathematics and the books won't waste their time worrying about these things, all they need to do is ensure a guaranteed profit no matter who wins/covers and therefore if you are doing this correctly then why the fukc do you care if you have winning gamblers on your books. Winners/Sharp gamblers help you sharpen your lines to begin with and every decent sized book with a decent reputation that has been operating for 3+ years or so accepts that some of their punters will be winners. You cannot maintain a customer base of 100% losers - it is just not possible, however Paddy owned books (of which there are many) seem to strive towards this unattainable goal harder than most.

    **The concept I have been talking about is the goal every sports book strives to achieve on every single ATS line that they release but of course there are many times when no matter what they do they end up with a lopsided scenario with anything up to 65-70% wagered on one team and 30-35% wagered on the other team and in this scenario the books will of course be rooting for the 30-35% team to cover and when they don't you end up in the sort of scenario will people will say things like "Vegas just got buried on that game". It does happen. If it didn't then the bookmakers would just be absolutely overflowing with pure profits and there would be far less of us gambling on sports...
    thanks for taking the time to explain. I appreciate it very much.

  25. #5135
    sando
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    NRL

    St George @ Gold Coast
    2.5* Titans -5.5 ($1.92 Sportsbet)
    The Titans with some big return's in Gordon and Meade and the Dragons with a massive out in Brett Morris. Watched last weeks game against the Warriors and the Titans were very impressive in the 2nd half. Big Jamal Idris was completely unstoppable and just carved up the meters down the right hand edge (making Jerome Ropati his bitch along the way) as was big Dave Taylor to a lesser extent. Titans with the better forward pack and the more dynamic backs playing at home should cover a 1 try margin.

  26. #5136
    Rabbitbrew
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    My netball tips for this week:

    NSW Swifts/Melbourne Vixens UNDER 103.5 goals. (bet365)

    Last week for the first time in ANZ history a team had more shots than their opposition and lost. This was the NSW Swifts. I think they will be competitive in this match so I am staying away from the line but like the under 103.5 goals. Swifts will look to slow down the game and move the ball around the top of the circle to ensure they get better penetration and therefore higher percentage shots.

    More games to follow...

    Points Awarded:

    sando gave Rabbitbrew 5 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  27. #5137
    davopnz
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    probably the most brutal night i've ever had! had kenya +12.5 in the 7s up 17-0 at ht lose 31-17. had highlanders -3.5 halftime in the rugby, up 17-14 concede a try after 40 minutes. had dirty frickin berdych in the tennis up 4-2 and 40-15 on wawrinkas serve, chokes and loses 6-4

  28. #5138
    sando
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    Quote Originally Posted by davopnz View Post
    probably the most brutal night i've ever had! had kenya +12.5 in the 7s up 17-0 at ht lose 31-17. had highlanders -3.5 halftime in the rugby, up 17-14 concede a try after 40 minutes. had dirty frickin berdych in the tennis up 4-2 and 40-15 on wawrinkas serve, chokes and loses 6-4
    Thats a sick beat on Kenya but you'll bounce back mate. The Berdych pick is interesting, had you watched much of the tourney? Stan has been outstanding on clay this season and the most in-form player at Madrid. Berdych's game doesn't really suit clay IMO, it's definitely his worst surface. I had a very large bet on Stan overnight and woke up to find out he had won, I never realised it was so close (Berdych choking).

  29. #5139
    davopnz
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    Yeah Berdych had been far more convincing than Wawrinka in his win over Murray, the court was playing perfectly for Berdych's game being at altitude. Wawrinka had no business winning that match, I can only imagine what he was paying to be win at that point.
    Points Awarded:

    sando gave davopnz 2 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  30. #5140
    sando
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    NBA

    2-0

    Great day, up a lazy 4 units or so on the two plays and probably back to around 50+ units on the season now (will work out my record soon when I have time). Lining up another big play for tomorrow - stay tuned.

  31. #5141
    Rabbitbrew
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    I think you might be on the money with the Fever Sando, but as a West Aussie I tend not to bet much on WA teams.

    I am going to have a VERY small wager on the HT-FT double in the Fever game though.
    Fever-Thunderbirds @ $9

    No plays on the rest of today's games. I do have two leans for tomorrows game and will post later.
    Last edited by Rabbitbrew; 05-11-13 at 10:31 PM. Reason: No more plays today
    Points Awarded:

    Johndrama gave Rabbitbrew 2 SBR Point(s) for this post.

    aussieH gave Rabbitbrew 2 SBR Point(s) for this post.


  32. #5142
    davopnz
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    playing the 7s or the tennis at all tonight sando?

  33. #5143
    the tross
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    Thanks sando , i got the fever the baby im burning up. These netball plays gold.

  34. #5144
    the tross
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    Dam Rabs, i missed your play again .Bloody mothers day messing with my bad habits and didn't check in time. I appreciate the effort in sharing yours and Sando's plays. Cheers.

  35. #5145
    BetaB
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    meh missed those AFL except titan

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