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Hello Sir STR; from DRF:
Any worries handicappers may have had regarding White Abarrio after he had a scheduled work postponed here earlier this week due to foot issues were likely laid to rest in the 59.63 seconds it took the Grade 1 Whitney winner to work five furlongs shortly before dawn on a crisp Friday morning at Santa Anita.
any comments?? thank you
Hi Mr. G and T !Originally Posted by mrginandtonic
I have not seen the draw or the form yet . The draw allows me to set up the race in my mind once I have seen the form so I can start to see the race unfold as best I can as to position, speed, stalk close, and all the little things I can spot.
But at this point I am very excited for Ricky, Chip and the family because if he can run anything like he did in his last race , he will be right there. I'll have plenty more to say in the coming days.
Who are you looking at with a week to go sir?
Last edited by str; 10-29-23 at 07:25 AM.
Thank you STR, I am just very about the BC. I guess my question is more about the foot issue that DRF mentioned, any thoughts of concern?
No concerns at all.
White feet are typically more sensitive. It's why some people including me say grey horses are always dangerous on mud, slop or turf. Simply put, the impact is softer and they relish that softness on their feet.
Ricky had glue on shoes which means no nails driven into the hoof. Those nails don't hurt as its like if you had a super long fingernail and drilled a small hole in the end of it. Doesn't hurt a bit. But, over a months time which is how often you trim the hoof and put on new shoes, those nails will slowly move as the hoof grow's. That can start to pinch, ever so slightly, but enough that when asked to run full blast, they can sting a bit which will have the horse thinking about their foot and not the race. All that adds up to a so-so effort.
Glue ons eliminate that but as the hoof grows, the shoes tend to get slightly smaller than the newly grown hoof and that can become an irritation for a sensitive footed horse. They upped the size of the shoe from a 7 to an 8 to avoid that happening on race day. How many trainers do that? Answer, not many.
He had to wait to breeze to get the shoes right and to fly in Ricks personnel blacksmith who had worked on the horse all summer. So they had to delay a few days but him working 8 days before the race, and as well as he did, that puts him right on track to be able to duplicate the prep schedule that he had for the Whitney where he worked 8 days before that race and ran a super race.
It's the little things Mr. GandT that separate good trainers from special ones. Rick is as good as I have ever been around and I've been around more than a couple Hall of Famers. He's right up there with some very special names and careers.
All the best sir. We will talk again soon.
Thank you very much for that info; I will put that aside and handicap it like normal when form comes out. All the best; can’t wait till till coming weekend
Boring afternoon games got me thinking about free pps.Drf is different i know they cant be free Nyra now has free pps so does finger lakes but how come tracks dont give away free pps when i went to Remington the program was 5 bucks.I dont play a lot of money anymore i should not cry i guess over 5 bucks but if i go to a casino i dont have to pay 5 to study a slot machine.Any thoughts my wife said if you need free pps you should not be playing!
I never minded back in the day when they were 50 cents but when they started putting pp's in the program and challenging the racing form market I hated it. There product was terrible . Loaded with bad info and mistakes. The fans really got hosed in my opinion when that started. Because I was a trainer, I got a free program everyday. Of course, I bought the racing form. I actually advocated for free programs when I was on the HBPA board. Fell on deaf ears. Management was not about to give up that gravy train.
Your wife is probably right. They usually are. But you probably don't really NEED free pp's. You just wish and think they should be free. And I agree. And yeah, you can bitch about 5 bucks everyday for a program. I mean, why not make you pay 5 bucks but give you a 5 dollar betting voucher for that day's card. People would love that.
Again from many previous posts, all this revenue should be shared amongst the owners. Then, all programs would be free. That requires leadership. Right now, the inmates run the acylium.
Hang in there. I don't know if we will live to see it, but the day will come when it is a much more fan friendly place to visit.
I sure hope so.
Take care.
Geaux Rocket ride:
Really hate to write this but Geaux Rocket Ride had a terrible break down during his work a couple of days ago.
When I heard about it I knew exactly what the deal was. And without going into detail, he is not doing well after surgery apparently and as hard as everyone involved is working, trying , hell everything it is seemingly worsening.
There is IMO a slim chance he will be able to overcome what happened. It is just a terrible break in the wrong place that affected too many areas. Such a sad thing.
I know the connections have and will continue to do everything possible to save him, but it is a mountain to climb albeit one worth trying to climb.
Sucks just telling you folks the severity of what happened. Can't imagine what the crew is going through. Actually I can, but to a lesser horse ability wise. But got to be honest, they are all athletes that give every ounce of themselves to the sport. I mean, does it matter if you are an all pro or a second stringer? Nope. Because you see the dedication that is put in by the horse as well as the people around them. They run to the best of each ones ability's.
Here is hoping for what is probably damn near a miracle.
Come on pal.
It didn’t sound good for him. Prayers!
Sir STR, with Arcangelo out, 3- White Abarrio and 8- Ushba Tesoro are both second favorite at 4-1, behind the 12- Arabian Knight (ML 3-1). The BC Classic is DRF Race of the Day and available now. When you have a chance, would love hear your thoughts on this race. Thanks in advance.
Can STR gives SBR NATION an unbiased opinion considering his guy (Dutrow) trains the #3 White Abarrio? LOL. Just joking STR. Look forward to your take if you look it over as well. THX.
see skippy is not running (posted harts thread) .. archangelo also out..not going to get fancy here as I think rick's (WA) is a beast and we haven't even seen his best yet..hoping he gets it for you also str as I know it'd mean a lot if rick won it . deserves it after what he's been through and think he's got the goods
Zero chance of that EZ.
I'm all in. Lol.
Good luck to you and the connections of the #3 horse in the Classic. See what happens.
I went through the race and here is what I see early on.
1. Arcangelo -Scratched but allow me a plug please. Last horse that ever beat Arcangelo was... wait for it.... Kingsbarns !
2. Zandon- Very consistent and has always been passing horses from the 3/8ths pole to the 1/8th pole. No reason to think that does not continue.
3. White Abarrio- His last race is what this is all about. He was a different horse. The question is, was that just a perfect day for him somehow or has he taken the next step with the new connections? We won't know until it's too late but we have to take a side and
I take great pleasure in saying I will watch the entire race run but my eyes will never stray far from this horse.
If you look at his form, he is the classic, great effort, flat effort horse. I used to call those every other race horses. It is a tremendous angle to find prices when coming off a bad effort as well as throwing favorites without a second thought.
You see it more in mares than in the boys but you do see it in both. Nothing better than throwing out a horse off a big race. And I have been doing that forever. But because of the trainer change and two solid efforts back to back making it three straight, you find yourself at a crossroad.
He runs great, Or, he runs flat. I won't be shocked if either one happens. But if he ever has a chance to get out of that pattern and start stringing big efforts in a row, this is the time.
Ricky has done absolutely everything you can do to have this horse sitting on ready. And I am sure he is. But will that every other race pattern show up? That is all up to the horse. My money will say no whereas it might normally say yes and I would fish for some big prices. But not this time. My personnel feelings towards that family allows me to see it only one way. Those feelings run about as deep as they can be.
When I left home in D.C. for the track I left everything behind. Sports, my girlfriend who became my wife 7 years later, all my friends, parties,... everything.
The Dutrow family, once they got to know me and I them, basically became my 2nd family. Heck, I lived with them for a short while. Everything I learned about horses until the day I became a trainer , I learned from Dickie, the boys, and those barns. There mom was so darn kind to me. I love her to death.
So I look at this race from an odd spot. But now you folks can see both sides of how I might size this horse up if it was just another race.
4.Missed The Cut- Seems a cut below these but his last race was a nice one, albeit at 3-5 odds.
5. Derma Sotogake- I'm right back to where I was at the Derby. Who knows? Not me. The Derby was a disaster for him at the gate if I'm not mistaken. I have nothing that gives me reason to think that won't happen again. I know he ran big figures and Beyer liked him in the Derby. I assume, maybe they like him this time as well but for me, with nothing to really go on, I don't see any path towards saying I like him. Honestly, I just don't know.
6. Saudi Crown- Nice speed, nice horse. If form holds he will be up front with Arabian Knight. Do they try and slow things down or run too fast early and change the whole race ? No clue, but I can't say that I could use this horse assuming Arabian Knight and he tangle early and middle.
7. Clapton- Don't know about the horse but LOVE the name !Looks like he is a cut below the best ones in here but maybe he has had some Strange Brew, in a White Room, and is looking to Change The World. This one has me at a Crossroads for using on the bottom of the tickets.
8. Ushba Tesoro- I honestly have no idea. Can't imagine I use him especially if he is bet.
9. Senor Buscador- I cannot see him winning and with only 2 thirds and zero 2nds in 14 starts, he will not be on my tickets in all probability.
10.Dreamlike- He is worth a second look. Seems to be getting better . I'll continue to look at this one . Seems eligible to get a share in here on a top effort.
11. Bright future- I will need to look more at this Pletcher horse as well. Both he and the ten I will need to do a little work on before commenting in full.
12. Arabian Knight- Speed, what I see as a favorable post being he has a long run to the clubhouse turn. He will dictate the pace. I do wonder if the same race setup occurs for him as it did at Monmouth where he had to lay just off the lead in second early, and if that will compromise him as it looks like it did back in July. Bob doesn't like laying 2nd so a hot pace could certainly happen. I think that is more up to Saudi Crown though. more later on this one.
13. Proxy- Hard trying horse that should be somewhat of a price. I will learn more about this one as the week goes on and make more of a commitment, or not.
Hope that helps for the early thoughts Mr. GandT.
Just saw didn’t make it, RIP.
DRF had a good article on Rick today. Guess the owners were between him and Chad Brown after WA left Saffie’s barn. He’s got a great shot in this race.
Yeah, I saw that also Jelly. Just terrible. They are so strong and yet so fragile.
I saw the DRF article as well. I cannot speak to other trainers unless I know them well but when it comes to Ricky, what you hear is all truth. He is like his dad. A matter of fact, all business, horse first always. All three of the boys have talked the exact same their whole lives. It always reminds me of way back when. Those boys are a trip. If you knew them, you would all really like them. You can't not, if you get to know them. And always joking around. All business... but having fun being that. Believe it or not, their dad was the same way.
Thanks Jelly !
Thank you so much for your take on this. A lot of pros at DRF like White Abarrio too; also I see a lot of likes on Proxy. I also find that horse interesting. The Japan horse is 6 for 6 on this distance; also very intriguing. Will look at it more later. Have the next 4 days off from work; so I will be spending some time staring at the form…. Lol
One more question about horses that gets better after they switch trainers; I always wondered what does next trainer do differently from the previous. Sometimes I see things like switching distances or surfaces; other times are not as obvious. Thanks in advance
hey str
chad brown has a first time starter shipping in from training at mth..question isn't about it but how he might run his mth base of horses (seen others from there I believe)..possibly 1 asst trainer who looks over it like it was his small stable and then speaks to the boss about how things are going ?
Real quick thought.
Just saw a picture of Arabian Knight galloping quickly. He wears a ring bit. If he wears it in the morning I would be surprised if he does not wear it in the afternoon. That is a severe type bit for horses that pull really hard and don't really want to try and relax.
If that is the case, his form makes perfect sense. On the lead, good to go. Eye to eye or behind a 1/2 length, pulling and not relaxed ( typically).
If that is the case and it is more likely than not that it is, if the inside speed says go, and why wouldn't he, Arabian Knight stands a chance to repeat his Monmouth performance. Wishful thinking but does have merit.
Does that set it up for the horse laying 3rd or 4th to run right by? I hope so.
Again, just a thought. More later.
Hey STR: THX for your takes on the Classic. Good Read.
If you don't mind Mr. GandT, I will get to this early next week.
Great question ! Thanks.
hey str
first off it's a busy time lol..no rush on the mth question
wanted to get your opinion on this aspect of white abarrio ..seems after the two 9f efforts in the pa derby and pegasus world cup he came back to run nice races at elongated 1 turn distances of the g1 cigar mile and a 7f advanced alw condition @ gulfstream..to me (and feel free to be critical lol) it's not only that he cut back but his running lines in both were favorable to a cutback and we've discussed the 9f is a good one for bottom to go 7f next out..winning that 7f race 3 back with a solid figure was a nice setup for the met mile which was a big effort considering the stumble and wide post..was also his 1st start with rick..then 8 weeks off and go another furlong and win the whitney easy ..i just feel that 7f race 3 back was a perfect reset to move forward off..was surely
well meant in the pwc but maybe running how he did was kind of a blessing in disguise to get him to this point..lot's of speculation here but it is the way I'm viewing it
Once I became a trainer, I saw the form differently. Before, I was a handicapper in high school or just out. Was always looking for a winner. That's the handicappers job, right? But once I understood the training portion, I looked at the form every evening and day. But I was no longer putting races together ( unless it was for a horse of mine in a race), I was looking at each horse and trying to see what THEY were experiencing. It became a whole new perceptive for me. That is how I picked horses to claim. Remember, most trainers were never bettors. Most did not handicap races like bettors do. I did. Because that's what I knew from the years prior. I didn't know the first thing about a horse. And I've always told people that asked, that if they raced Zebras, I would have probably been a Zebra trainer. lol.
What you are trying to do is get into the horses head. I love that. What makes this horse tick? What wakes this horse up? What is he thinking about? This goes to Mr. GandT's question about trainer changes that I will talk about next week but I applaud what you are doing and more importantly, what you are seeing in the form JBEX. I see exactly what you see. I think that will serve you well as time goes on .
Back to White Abarrio, After that non effort last January, the horse needed a reset. I think the trainer realized that. He stopped looking at where to run the horse next and just started training the horse and he probably figured, he will let the horse talk to him and tell him when he is ready to start looking for a race. Once you have trained for a while you kind of get a feel for when a horse just needs to have the trainer put the condition book down and allow the horse to just be a horse. Pretty sure that is what happened here.
It was a great move to put him in a race that was a cutback and he was way the best horse. Like, hey, let's start over here and get off on the right foot. And that's exactly what happened. Then he goers to Rick so he can run in NY, as that trainer was unable to run him there at the time with that mess that occurred in Ky.
So Rick gets him and trains him which is something totally new and different from his daily habits. New track, trainer, exercise rider, groom, feed program, you name it. Everything is new. That can really wake a horse up in a really good way, if the horse feels invigorated by the newness of the changes. So... is that what happened??? I can't tell for sure. So, he runs in the Met Mile , runs a Z pattern and finishes 3rd. At 20-1, was that actually a spirited new horse effort? Was this horse really enjoying himself and it showed? Or was that the typical so-so effort after winning easily that he had almost always showed before? Honestly, I'm not sure. Either way, it made him a play ON in the Whitney for sure. And, he ran great. So now what do we do?? Has the horse gone away from his pattern that he had grown accustomed to, that being a great race, dullish race, great race, dullish effort? Or has the new environment made him into a new horse ??
We are going to find out today.
If I am a handicapper, I most likely toss him like he is not even in the race under the theory that he will run a typical "flat", even type of race and will show up next out ready to roll.
As a trainer, I know he has a good chance to have been basically been reborn with Ricky. I say that because IMO, nobody ever turned more horses around mentally that I ever saw without the aid of illegal drugs (let's eliminate the cheaters and talk about real horsemen), Than Ricky's dad. I could probably name 50 horses that went from just a horse to a monster when he took over training them while I was there for 4 years. And it doesn't happen over night. And there is always a reason that if you watch in the mornings, you can see. Not the drug clown show you can also detect.
Something changed that made that horse totally different. And Rick has proven time and again that he, just like his dad, can find that whole card and get the most out of that horse. Anybody but Ricky and I say to myself, if he wins, I lose.
Because of my deep ties to that family, I cannot think that way in this race. I'm blinded by the relationship I suppose. So I will root like hell for a family I owe so much to and hope he wins.
But as a gambler, there is no way I would look at it like that. I would toss him probably hope for a very hot pace up front, and I don't know how that won't happen on paper, and take a small swing at box cars like Zandon, Clapton, Senor Buscador, and Dreamlike. Bet a little with a chance to win a ton. Only problem with that is Santa Anita never saw a speed horse it didn't want to favor. Guess that is why I never cared for it.
I'm off to Laurel today to see my old and dear friends . I'll be sharing tickets with my man Matt and maybe "City" and others, as good a friend and person as you would ever meet. Haven't been in a few years so it should be fun.
GL today JBEX and everyone !
thanks str
glad you agree that the 7f race 3 back might've been a reset for him .. i really consider the met mile effort a forward move considering the level,post and improved figure..the only regressions i see for him in his whole career was the pwc and the haskell .. maybe with the latter he was a little worn out from a busy schedule.. I'm more lenient about the derby as it's a freak race in addition to him having a very tough trip..he paired nice races a couple of times early in his career so I don't think he's a bounce after a good race type ..back to the met mile,if that's considered a move forward then you really have to be impressed with what he did in the whitney @ saratoga
i also think with all the speed entered he might be able to sit a little further back than normal and not get smoked by being to close to a fast pace
understand coming in off his last race he probably won't be a great value bet .. i think he's an exceptionally talented horse who has another forward move in him and distance won't be an issue..as mentioned in a prior post would also like to see him win as a rooting interest also because of your ties to the family
looking forward to the race and have a great time out at laurel with your buddies today
Last edited by JBEX; 11-04-23 at 09:08 AM.
Of course; no hurry. thanks in advance.
Congrats to you and Rick and all the connections of the White Abarrio STR. 5/2 chalk sat the perfect trip. Big win. Good luck moving forward.
Congrats, str. Amazing job by Ricky and his team turning this horse around. Phenomenal.
Congrats to WA and his connections!! Great job!!
Last edited by mrginandtonic; 11-04-23 at 08:42 PM.
ran an amazing race .. congrats to you and the connections of WA !!
After having an underachieving 4-year-old colt transferred to him from a trainer who also was under scrutiny by regulators, Dutrow showed he can still train a racehorse, on Saturday winning the biggest prize in American racing, the $6-million, Grade 1 Longines Breeders' Cup Classic with C2 Racing Stable's White Abarrio.
Ridden by Irad Ortiz Jr., the gray colt by Race Day got a dream trip behind dueling frontrunners Arabian Knight and Saudi Crown, taking command in midstretch and drawing out for the win. Japanese-bred Derma Sotogake finished second, a lengthe bend, with Proxy edging Arabian Knight for third.
"It's incredible," Dutrow said on the NBC telecast after White Abarrio's triumph. "Incredible stuff that I'm going through right now."
Thanks to all of you !
But all I did was somehow connect when I was 17 years old with a great trainer, teacher and mentor that had three boys that were a few years younger than I was. I was very lucky.
And for Rick to say what he says and act the way he does makes me feel really good. He always goes back to all he really ever wanted to do which was be at the barn every morning early and train horses. If his horses are happy, he is happy. That's always the way it has been.
Without a doubt, him saying Hi Mom was the highlight of the day. My man has come full circle in his life and I am proud to know him.
Beyer Figs winners, BC Sat: Cody’s Wish-107 (DM), Inspiral-105 (FMT), Goodnight Olive-98, FMS, Master of the Seas-105 (M), Idiomatic-95 (D), Auguste Rodin-106 (T), White Abarrio-106 (C), Nobals-102 (TS), Elite Power-111 (S).
I guess gaining about 150 lbs. since May and going with the glue on shoes on a tender footed horse worked out.
There most likely both tied to each other somewhat.
Make them happy and they make you look real smart.
Thanks EZ.
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