[str]

Have any time to speak on how to teach a horse to rate?

lots of these maiden horses are just faster than their competition and while it looks like they are sprinters , their talent was just better

but some are just meant for 1 turn and want/need the lead

id imagine it’s difficult to decide ( how much does breeding factor in?)

if you fail trying to rate a horse, couldn’t it affect the short term future (profit)

It’s a set back if the horse can’t rate , or fails doing so

then ask to go back to sprinting

they will find it again , but costly as

I see this a lot with the horses on derby trail

Connections so hungry for triple crown

they force it

thanks in advance

Q. lots of these maiden horses are just faster than their competition and while it looks like they are sprinters , their talent was just better

but some are just meant for 1 turn and want/need the lead

id imagine it’s difficult to decide ( how much does breeding factor in?)

A. Breeding is not the deciding factor except with pure sprinter mentality but it drives the bus in most cases.


Q. if you fail trying to rate a horse, couldn’t it affect the short term future (profit)

A. Absolutely. But any horse can do (and make) much more if they can relax and do more than just burn on the lead. Don't get me wrong though. There are horses that have natural speed that make the lead or don't and there are those that can only run one way. It's all about relax, no matter their position. And it's easier said than done quite often.

Q. It’s a set back if the horse can’t rate , or fails doing so

then ask to go back to sprinting

they will find it again , but costly as

I see this a lot with the horses on derby trail

I see this a lot with the horses on derby trail

Connections so hungry for triple crown

they force it

A. Yes we do see this alot. And it will always happen. The Derby is such a fever for everyone involved with a young horse I have trouble describing what it feels like or even is. It is overwhelming and has led to countless ruination of many a horse over the years. But just look any buyer at a sale in the eye that is paying real money for a prospect and ask them what the are hopeful of getting. It will take a humble and grounded buyer ( not that many, believe me), to say they hope the horse can win the Bay Shore and go on to make a bunch of money being a very useful horse. Maybe some will say that the day after the 1st Saturday in May of the horses 3 year old year, but up until then, nobody is thinking of the Bay Shore in NY, the Lexington in Ky, the Tesio in Md, or any ( with normal thinking), really cool race to win. They want the Derby and I'm not talking Ohio Derby.

Honestly, I have never seen anything like it, and have to admit that it crossed my mind a time or two when I was training. It's actually terrible overall because so many poor decisions are made along the way every year. Earning money, that everybody wants to do, is not a blip on the radar in the months leading up to early May. That post I wrote a few weeks ago about that owner of mine turning down a bunch of money, money that would have set a path to the sales ring for potentially very nice horses for the next decade says all you need to hear. It happens everywhere. Very good business people leaving all their business sense at home and coming to the track and acting as reckless with a horse as they can be. It's not just that guy, its darn near everybody.

Trainers styles really come into play as well. What I mean is, and no disrespect to anyone I use as an example in here,(I'm not judging, I'm just pointing out styles and there is more than one way to skin a cat), but I doubt you will see Wesley Ward running too many horses a mile and a quarter on the grass nor will you see Chad Brown going 4 1/2 F. with a baby. And while those are extreme examples, almost every trainer has some sort of style and almost every trainer has strengths and weaknesses. Just like jocks styles which are also very real, they hate it when you say it, but it's the truth.

So I guess the question is, is it all worth it to try and shoot for the moon? Probably not, but if you have a horse that looks like there is a chance, it takes an almost impossible dose of realism, logic and focus on the long run to try and overcome the temptation to try for the Derby.



I needed a two hundred words to try and explain what it feels like and probably fell short.

You said it in three.

"They force it". And when that happens, things usually get messed up.

[str]

I’ll go ahead guess the plan and teaching operation starts early , before their first race

It starts the first day they go to the track at the farm to gallop for the 1st time. By the time they are running their 1st race, they have galloped well over 100 miles, worked in company multiple times and have been ridden for a selected purpose in most if not all of those works. They have won workouts and most have lost workouts as well. The mold has been formed. Being sent every step of the way or being reserved and asked through the lane. Or all of those things.

This is all about what the trainer is doing with the horse and speaks to those styles I talked about in the last post.

[Louisvillekid1]

Thanks str

[JBEX]

hey str

saw a horse in R9 (6:15) @ will rogers that I thought had a lot of interesting things going on and wanted your opinion..if you don't see it in time would still like your feedback

#1 sugoi (8-1) doubt he'll be that

here's what I see..

first the negatives

his win was on synthetic..

running for a lot less purse money but turfway meet ended 2 weeks ago..


positives..


decent race in debut from the 11 post..

broke his maiden 2nd out with a nice figure..

like that it was at 6.5f vs 6 for the stretch out* today to 1 mile..


able to stay mid pack in the sprint so should be up close today..

gets to try the stretch out at a lesser track vs easier competition ..


inside posts at this track good in routes..

been taking his regular turn about a month apart..

only 3yo in the race..

top trainer who has excellent stats in applicable categories..

[str]

hey str

saw a horse in R9 (6:15) @ will rogers that I thought had a lot of interesting things going on and wanted your opinion..if you don't see it in time would still like your feedback

#1 sugoi (8-1) doubt he'll be that

here's what I see..

first the negatives

his win was on synthetic..

running for a lot less purse money but turfway meet ended 2 weeks ago..


positives..


decent race in debut from the 11 post..

broke his maiden 2nd out with a nice figure..

like that it was at 6.5f vs 6 for the stretch out* today to 1 mile..


able to stay mid pack in the sprint so should be up close today..

gets to try the stretch out at a lesser track vs easier competition ..


inside posts at this track good in routes..

been taking his regular turn about a month apart..

only 3yo in the race..

top trainer who has excellent stats in applicable categories..

Why is the 1 post 22%? Is it a bullring?

Looks like the horse is a decent 3 year old. Not sure about running against 7-8-9 year olds that have won many races.

It does look like those old pros were winning for 5k or a little more and doubled in value when they came there.

I guess my biggest challenge would be understanding the true value of that place in conjunction to the other tracks.

I agree that you cannot trust synthetic racing when shifting to dirt. You just never know.

It looks like the horse could be favored I think?

The old rule of thumb was that this time of year, 3 year old maidens running in MSW races are typically superior to the 4 and 5 year old maidens in the same race. But... when they run against olders that are winners ( not NW2 but multiple old war horse winners) they are not superior.

I think if I knew the track better, I could take a stand one way or the other. Not even knowing if it is a mile track or a bullring, I would be tempted to take one of the old war horses at an inflated price and play against a 3 year old in April trying the old tough guys. Not so much the non winners of two but the ones that have made quite a bit.

I see Lane Luzzi riding the five horse. Isn't that Mikes daughter?

I owe you a response from an earlier question about the gate. Will get that to you soon.

[JBEX]

Why is the 1 post 22%? Is it a bullring?

Looks like the horse is a decent 3 year old. Not sure about running against 7-8-9 year olds that have won many races.

It does look like those old pros were winning for 5k or a little more and doubled in value when they came there.

I guess my biggest challenge would be understanding the true value of that place in conjunction to the other tracks.

I agree that you cannot trust synthetic racing when shifting to dirt. You just never know.

It looks like the horse could be favored I think?

The old rule of thumb was that this time of year, 3 year old maidens running in MSW races are typically superior to the 4 and 5 year old maidens in the same race. But... when they run against olders that are winners ( not NW2 but multiple old war horse winners) they are not superior.

I think if I knew the track better, I could take a stand one way or the other. Not even knowing if it is a mile track or a bullring, I would be tempted to take one of the old war horses at an inflated price and play against a 3 year old in April trying the old tough guys. Not so much the non winners of two but the ones that have made quite a bit.

I see Lane Luzzi riding the five horse. Isn't that Mikes daughter?

I owe you a response from an earlier question about the gate. Will get that to you soon.

no it's not a bull ring even though I'd been calling it one for the past few weeks.. I fessed up to it yesterday and careless beyond words.. the other track fonner is a bullring

mike luzzi's son and he's a decent jockey down there.. I just figure all these older horses still eligible for n1x not a good thing but on the other hand a n1x on this circuit not the same as bigger circuits.. still I'd say off the top the purse in this race more than double the average claimers there.. I just saw the board and he opened up 7-5 lol..probably drift up to 5-2 /3-1.. tough to play at those low odds

[JBEX]

4 lbs overweight also..that's a lot and i'm not a weight person

[Louisvillekid1]

Front wraps?

can you speak on them

angle in ny going way back

Gary sciacca without front wraps is like a 20% clip

he uses them like crazy

thanks

question 2:

war of Will is going to turf to start next campaign

Normally a sensitive foot issue , no?

[str]

just saw something at fonner park that is very confusing.. all 10 horses in the gate ready for the start.. #8 violently acts up and looks like from a distance he's on his hind quarters.. of course jockey jumped off and they did upright the horse fairly quickly.. everybody backed out of the gate.. they scratch the 8 and the 7 but they also scratch the 5 ?? can understand the 7 as he was right next to him but the 5..what's your guess why he had to be scratched?

In all probability, the 5 got all worked up from the comotion. My best guess is the horse lunged forward and could very well have hit its mouth or face on the front stall doors. That happens most frequently when another horse goes crazy in the gate.
If it was its mouth, or teeth area, they bleed like crazy . That not only looks real bad, but there is no way of knowing if the horse had its bell rung mentally. If that was the case, the horse would have run terribly and could have hurt itself or the rider badly. So if they saw that, they really had no choice but to error on the side of caution. Thats my best guess.

[str]

no it's not a bull ring even though I'd been calling it one for the past few weeks.. I fessed up to it yesterday and careless beyond words.. the other track fonner is a bullring

mike luzzi's son and he's a decent jockey down there.. I just figure all these older horses still eligible for n1x not a good thing but on the other hand a n1x on this circuit not the same as bigger circuits.. still I'd say off the top the purse in this race more than double the average claimers there.. I just saw the board and he opened up 7-5 lol..probably drift up to 5-2 /3-1.. tough to play at those low odds

I recorded the race and watched it last night. Indeed, that track IS a bullring. It is a 6 furlong oval. And while a lot of bullrings are 5/8ths ovals, a bullring as I was taught and by definition is any track that is less than one mile in circumference. That certainly explains the 22% win rate for the one post.

Mike's son, yeah I messed up that on. But, I do remember his child starting to ride somewhere. Mike was always a real nice guy. He came up under his granddad, Virgil Buddy Raines. Big name in the business way back in the day. A classic gentleman trainer from the 50's and 60's as well as after that. By the time I met him, he was in his 70's and I ALWAYS referred to him as sir when saying hello. A VERY nice soft spoken man. He won some very big name races over his years including the Preakness and everyone had great respect for him. Pretty sure Mike grew up very near Delaware Park but I always remembered him at Bowie where he got very close with Eddie Gaudet in Maryland when he had the bug and thereafter.

Anyway, the 3 year old ran his eyeballs out. Really cool horse. Think about what he had to overcome. The 1 post into a very sharp turn he had never run in to before, dirt hitting him instead of synthetic and wearing a shadow roll( the red fuzzy band around his nose) which is worn to help lower the head while running, which dirt spray typically makes them raise back up, thus slowing them down, ( that is why in all probability the rider shifted out well wide early down the backside, so as to avoid all that spray from the leader), shipping I assume from another track,( maybe not the same day, don't know), and I'm sure more. That horse has all my respect. A 3 year old handling olders is impressive enough without all that other stuff.

Funny thing is, if they all were to sell at auction today, and let's say they all came out of the race fine, the 3 year old would sell for darn near as much as all the others combined. And yet at 2-1, I would still try and beat him because the task was huge. But he handled it like a champ. They could have gone around again and nobody was going to beat him. What a cool horse to have in your barn. Gotta love that guy.

On a side note, if somebody told me a few months ago I would be taping a race at Will Rogers Downs to watch a horse run in the 9th I would have said they were crazy. My have times changed.

Very nice find JBEX.

Thanks for the heads up. Really enjoyed watching that horse perform.

[str]

4 lbs overweight also..that's a lot and i'm not a weight person

That is because of the big weight difference in April for 3 year olds running against olders. The weight scale alone tells you how hard it is for 3's to beat olders this time of year.

[harthebar]

[harthebar]

HI str. I found this old picture of my aunts horse in dome old boxes. She was from Maryland . That's where her farm is....I know that's her winning at laurel park
I remember she brought her up to Atlantic city race track ...she told me it was going to win. It did paid like 35.00 give or take. I know she ended up breeding her with cryptoclearence. ..I never knew how the foal did. The horse raced in some descent races. Ever hear of her. Just an old story
My aunts in the middle. 1987

[JBEX]

In all probability, the 5 got all worked up from the comotion. My best guess is the horse lunged forward and could very well have hit its mouth or face on the front stall doors. That happens most frequently when another horse goes crazy in the gate.
If it was its mouth, or teeth area, they bleed like crazy . That not only looks real bad, but there is no way of knowing if the horse had its bell rung mentally. If that was the case, the horse would have run terribly and could have hurt itself or the rider badly. So if they saw that, they really had no choice but to error on the side of caution. Thats my best guess.

ok good to know that.. thanks

[JBEX]

That is because of the big weight difference in April for 3 year olds running against olders. The weight scale alone tells you how hard it is for 3's to beat olders this time of year.

that makes plenty of sense

[JBEX]

I recorded the race and watched it last night. Indeed, that track IS a bullring. It is a 6 furlong oval. And while a lot of bullrings are 5/8ths ovals, a bullring as I was taught and by definition is any track that is less than one mile in circumference. That certainly explains the 22% win rate for the one post.

Mike's son, yeah I messed up that on. But, I do remember his child starting to ride somewhere. Mike was always a real nice guy. He came up under his granddad, Virgil Buddy Raines. Big name in the business way back in the day. A classic gentleman trainer from the 50's and 60's as well as after that. By the time I met him, he was in his 70's and I ALWAYS referred to him as sir when saying hello. A VERY nice soft spoken man. He won some very big name races over his years including the Preakness and everyone had great respect for him. Pretty sure Mike grew up very near Delaware Park but I always remembered him at Bowie where he got very close with Eddie Gaudet in Maryland when he had the bug and thereafter.

Anyway, the 3 year old ran his eyeballs out. Really cool horse. Think about what he had to overcome. The 1 post into a very sharp turn he had never run in to before, dirt hitting him instead of synthetic and wearing a shadow roll( the red fuzzy band around his nose) which is worn to help lower the head while running, which dirt spray typically makes them raise back up, thus slowing them down, ( that is why in all probability the rider shifted out well wide early down the backside, so as to avoid all that spray from the leader), shipping I assume from another track,( maybe not the same day, don't know), and I'm sure more. That horse has all my respect. A 3 year old handling olders is impressive enough without all that other stuff.

Funny thing is, if they all were to sell at auction today, and let's say they all came out of the race fine, the 3 year old would sell for darn near as much as all the others combined. And yet at 2-1, I would still try and beat him because the task was huge. But he handled it like a champ. They could have gone around again and nobody was going to beat him. What a cool horse to have in your barn. Gotta love that guy.

On a side note, if somebody told me a few months ago I would be taping a race at Will Rogers Downs to watch a horse run in the 9th I would have said they were crazy. My have times changed.

Very nice find JBEX.

Thanks for the heads up. Really enjoyed watching that horse perform.

yeah I think what threw me though (unless I'm crazy) is that 6f is run around 1 turn which would obviously have to be a chute.. tell you my mind is so foggy overall I wouldn't bet my life on it right now lol


buddy raines is a name I've definitely heard of but obviously way before my time.. also that mike was related to him was something I've heard in the past..


yeah he did run a big race.. interesting all the detail you gave that I wouldn't have thought of but is good to know..shadow roll to keep head down and spray that you don't get on synthetic.he was training at ttc in lexington which is about 700 miles from will rogers so not sure how that works out logistically.. not where the trainer usually runs as that was only his third starter at the meet.. probably has to due with what's going on now as there's fewer places to run.. interesting if he'll try a n2x there if it comes up and the timing is right


yeah that's funny about taping a will rogers race.. but I tell you both those small tracks (fonner park also) have had nice cards with good betting races.. fonner is a true bullring @ 5/8 of a mile


anymore interesting situations there I'll keep you posted lol.. thanks again

[JBEX]

harthebar had a post about 4 above.. don't want you to miss it with my flurry

[str]

HI str. I found this old picture of my aunts horse in dome old boxes. She was from Maryland . That's where her farm is....I know that's her winning at laurel park
I remember she brought her up to Atlantic city race track ...she told me it was going to win. It did paid like 35.00 give or take. I know she ended up breeding her with cryptoclearence. ..I never knew how the foal did. The horse raced in some descent races. Ever hear of her. Just an old story
My aunts in the middle. 1987

Yes, I remember her well.

The 3rd person left to right looks familiar.

And the blinkers have the same initials as my handle here.


Thanks for posting that Har !

[harthebar]

Yes, I remember her well.

The 3rd person left to right looks familiar.

And the blinkers have the same initials as my handle here.


Thanks for posting that Har !

Ha ha small world. Glad you enjoyed it

[harthebar]

You k ow the jockey

[harthebar]

harthebar had a post about 4 above.. don't want you to miss it with my flurry

Good one. J. See my message my /ours thread

[str]

Front wraps?

can you speak on them

angle in ny going way back

Gary sciacca without front wraps is like a 20% clip

he uses them like crazy

thanks

question 2:

war of Will is going to turf to start next campaign

Normally a sensitive foot issue , no?

Q. Front wraps?

can you speak on them

angle in ny going way back

Gary sciacca without front wraps is like a 20% clip

he uses them like crazy



A. Fronts on first time is generally a real negative just as fronts off is a real positive. But... some trainers , not a lot but some run every horse in them. Never understood that . It goes against all common logic but they do it and plenty are decent % outfits.
There are two solid reasons why fronts need to be worn. First, if a horse runs down, which is when they get friction burns from running on dirt due to their individual angle in which the foot hits the ground and the heal lands. You find those types either with a flaw in their conformation which is not as common as the other reason which is that they have an ongoing problem they are trying to run through that causes them to shift weight off of one area and onto another creating an imbalance in the distribution of weight. Long story short, they start to run down up front and need the bandages to protect against that.

The second and more common reason is that they need added support to the tendon which runs down the back of the leg from just below the knee , down to the ankle or the suspensory on one leg or both have been weakened and they are in need of protective support there. Those suspensories are the thin lines you see, one on each side of a front leg that run parallel to the tendon but on the sides instead of the back of the area from below the knee down to the ankle. All of those tendons and suspensories support the configuration of the front leg from the knee to the hoof.
Horses that run with fronts are typically the ones you see scratched on muddy/ sloppy tracks. Running down will worsen on off tracks and the suction will be too severe to risk running a horse with and old bowed tendon or a suspensory problem. If they do run on those tracks, the chances of straining the area become far greater.

Not sure why he runs most in them but not some but those types of % angles are priceless as you well know.


Q. question 2:

war of Will is going to turf to start next campaign

Normally a sensitive foot issue , no?

A. Not necessarily a foot issue but in this case, War of Will has four white socks as markings and he has four white feet. You show me a horse with four white feet and I will show you a horse with a very high probability of having foot issues of some sort. Any horse with four white feet, so long as they mentally TRUST the SURFACE of grass will very much appreciate the softness of the surface as compared to dirt.
If they don't trust it, no horse will run well. They feel like you do when you walk across ice. You know how you carefully navigate the footing on ice. Mainly, you slow down and never extend your feet out very far. Well, so do they on a surface they do not trust. And nature has horses are more protective of their legs than any other part of their body. If that is ever the case, the result is always a subpar performance.

With the bloodlines of War Front out of a Sadlers Wells mare, the turf breeding is solidly there. While there is always a slight chance that the most regally bred horse for turf surface will not trust it, the overwhelming majority will and more often than not, those that do trust it and love it.
So my guess is the horse will have a great chance to actually be better on turf and he was on dirt.

Oh, and if they interview the trainer and ask about the hoses feet, he will probably say they are fine but thats all lip service for the breeding shed. Don't listen to that. Lol. Let the horses performance do the talking. There is a good chance it will.

Keep up the good work Kid !
Proud of you man.

[str]

You k ow the jockey

Donnie Miller. He was the leading rider in Md. for a decent amount of time.

He is now in real estate in the Baltimore metro area.

Great guy.

[harthebar]

Donnie Miller. He was the leading rider in Md. for a decent amount of time.

He is now in real estate in the Baltimore metro area.

Great guy.

Ok thanks

[JBEX]

hey str

I saw after baffert's american pharoah colt won the last at oaklawn by the length of the stretch that he is now a private fee..he started at $200k last year and does seem ,off the top, to be producing phenomenal horses who probably just get better with age..makes me think they might be looking to get more than the most expensive north american stallion war front @ $250k..

fascinating what they might belooking to get for for him..maybe raise the fee and get a piece of the progeny?? it's mind boggling what that could be worth to them when you tally it all together..And if the owners of the mare are willing to go that much imagine the quality of mares he is going to get..i mean you'd have to think at some point some are going to say ,"no that's too much"..nothing against them doing it..capitalism charge what the market will bear ..but if between fees and rights (if that's what it is)they're compensation might be between $350-400k/per mating and they breed to 80-100 mares a year (guess)..that's a pretty nice enterprise they got going there ..the rich just get richer !!

[str]

hey str

I saw after baffert's american pharoah colt won the last at oaklawn by the length of the stretch that he is now a private fee..he started at $200k last year and does seem ,off the top, to be producing phenomenal horses who probably just get better with age..makes me think they might be looking to get more than the most expensive north american stallion war front @ $250k..

fascinating what they might belooking to get for for him..maybe raise the fee and get a piece of the progeny?? it's mind boggling what that could be worth to them when you tally it all together..And if the owners of the mare are willing to go that much imagine the quality of mares he is going to get..i mean you'd have to think at some point some are going to say ,"no that's too much"..nothing against them doing it..capitalism charge what the market will bear ..but if between fees and rights (if that's what it is)they're compensation might be between $350-400k/per mating and they breed to 80-100 mares a year (guess)..that's a pretty nice enterprise they got going there ..the rich just get richer !!

You see it perfectly. It IS incredible, the money that they can reap from it.

His foals have been really solid so far. Capitalism , as you said, at it's best.

And sure, they can try and work any deals they want to. If the buyer is willing , it's all free game.

[JBEX]

One of the most amazing things in breeding is what northern dancer did..believe he was a private fee either middle or late in his stallion career..And he was getting amounts back then in line or more than what top stallions are getting now without adjusting for inflation..with all the sons and grandsons and great grandsons who became big time or above avg stallions (and probably goes another generation or two beyond that) the European line through sadlers well one of the most amazing..sadlers well ,his son galileo and his two sons monteju and most recently frankel were all private fees or ultra expensive to breed to (I really think private fees but not 100% sure..frankel only one still active)..the sports equivalent of mickey mantle having a son who has a son who has two sons and all are hall of famers..amazing feat..thanks a lot
str

[Louisvillekid1]

Where you close with Sally Richardson ?

Been reading about her life after she passed

intriguing

figured you’d know for sure

[JBEX]

hey str

know you've probably been aching to take another look at will roger's lol..saw something interesting in R2 (2:45)
..#8 proud moments (7-2)..his last 3 races where he lost by double digits he followed up with an improved effort..one of them was a 5th place finish but by <2 lengths and he earned his 2nd highest figure of the last 10 races..another he finished 2nd by 9+ lengths but he earned his highest figure of the races showing and the winner came back and repeated next race..other time he won on 7/21..the non winning efforts both happened at big prices but he won't be a big price today..3rd race off abut a 3 month layoff and coming back in a week

[JBEX]

hey str

know you've probably been aching to take another look at will roger's lol..saw something interesting in R2 (2:45)
..#8 proud moments (7-2)..his last 3 races where he lost by double digits he followed up with an improved effort..one of them was a 5th place finish but by <2 lengths and he earned his 2nd highest figure of the last 10 races..another he finished 2nd by 9+ lengths but he earned his highest figure of the races showing and the winner came back and repeated next race..other time he won on 7/21..the non winning efforts both happened at big prices but he won't be a big price today..3rd race off abut a 3 month layoff and coming back in a week

oh wow one thing I didn't notice is outside posts are awful (understatement) at will rogers going a mile.. that neutralizes things quite a bit..had that going for us last week with the stretchout

[str]

Where you close with Sally Richardson ?

Been reading about her life after she passed

intriguing

figured you’d know for sure

I knew Sally and most of her family fairly well. Not all of them but the ones that worked at the track . I knew her husband, Jamie and the twins, Sandy and Lisa as well as her. Her husband James trained horses but passed away suddenly at Pimlico if I recall correctly. Jamie worked with the maintenance crew at Pimlico and he became the track Super there I'm pretty sure. I know he was in charge of Pimlico , not sure of his title though. I knew Sandy and Lisa who ponied horses but I lost track of Sandy, I think she left the track but Lisa actually ponied my horses for a while. She was very sweet. They were a hard working racetrack family that worked mainly at Pimlico.

Once Sally got into the racing office, I got to know her much better. She was a very kind lady but never took any stuff from anyone. I was really sad to hear of her passing. Seems like everytime I turn around I'm getting a text or a call about another old racetracker. Having started training at 21 , almost everyone else was seemingly at least in their mid to late 30's or in their 40's or older except for a lot of the jocks.

It's funny what you learn as you get older, in hindsight, about people when you are younger and can't quite see the whole picture yet. When I think of her nowadays, she was a proud lady who took great pride in her family. She and all the Richardsons worked as hard or harder than anyone. I always respected that. Ugg. The kids have to be a mess. They were a close family.

It seems a shame that racing fans never hear about all the incredible people that they see when they are there but have no idea who they are or of the stories they bring to the game. I suppose it is some of that, that kelps allow a person to fall in love with the game. All the backstories, all the personalities, all the people you see every single day. After years of it, you know everybody and everybody knows you.

I guess maybe it's the same way everywhere. But there is no place I have ever been that is like the racetrack. The people and their families that you compete against everyday. You like some, are just ok with some, and you dislike some. But if something happens to one of them, all that seems to vanish, everybody comes running to try and help. I guess you could call it the most close knit dysfunctional group of people you could imagine.

Thanks for the heads up and the inquiry Kid. In this case I knew about it but sometimes I don't.
Rest in peace Sally. Mission acomplished.

[str]

hey str

know you've probably been aching to take another look at will roger's lol..saw something interesting in R2 (2:45)
..#8 proud moments (7-2)..his last 3 races where he lost by double digits he followed up with an improved effort..one of them was a 5th place finish but by <2 lengths and he earned his 2nd highest figure of the last 10 races..another he finished 2nd by 9+ lengths but he earned his highest figure of the races showing and the winner came back and repeated next race..other time he won on 7/21..the non winning efforts both happened at big prices but he won't be a big price today..3rd race off abut a 3 month layoff and coming back in a week

"oh wow one thing I didn't notice is outside posts are awful (understatement) at will rogers going a mile.. that neutralizes things quite a bit..had that going for us last week with the stretchout"

A. Last time the 1,6,8, ran together, they were the 2,4,8 posts. Looks like the 1 horse was 2 wide, the 6 horse was 5 wide, then saved some ground, then looped wide and the 8 horse was 4 wide. Really have to watch the trips at bullrings though to know for sure.

This time, the 4 will be all over the 1 early it seems, so it should have a set up for a horse that can finish. With the 8, it's all about the trip. I it can work one out, there is a decent chance.
But the 6 has two pure speeds and three horses coming off of 5/8ths races and stretching out inside of it. With some luck, the 6 could sit on the rail for two of the three turns and have a nice chance to run them down. With some luck there is a dual up front and a dual behind them and the 6 sits all alone. That would be optimal.
Also, I'm pretty sure that race breaks just before the far turn so I think it is a very short run to the turn.
Like I said, in my mind, the trip will have the most to do with the winner in all probability. Seems like the more likely "good" trip will be the 6, but there is no way of knowing beforehand. It's just a guess.
Need to look under the inside rail to see if there is debris and small dirt clods or if it is smooth and clean also. The grader blade gets under that and will alert you to a freshly graded rail, or not. Always good to know that to look for tendencies and biases.

That's my take. I will record it if I can't watch it.

Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

"oh wow one thing I didn't notice is outside posts are awful (understatement) at will rogers going a mile.. that neutralizes things quite a bit..had that going for us last week with the stretchout"

A. Last time the 1,6,8, ran together, they were the 2,4,8 posts. Looks like the 1 horse was 2 wide, the 6 horse was 5 wide, then saved some ground, then looped wide and the 8 horse was 4 wide. Really have to watch the trips at bullrings though to know for sure.

This time, the 4 will be all over the 1 early it seems, so it should have a set up for a horse that can finish. With the 8, it's all about the trip. I it can work one out, there is a decent chance.
But the 6 has two pure speeds and three horses coming off of 5/8ths races and stretching out inside of it. With some luck, the 6 could sit on the rail for two of the three turns and have a nice chance to run them down. With some luck there is a dual up front and a dual behind them and the 6 sits all alone. That would be optimal.
Also, I'm pretty sure that race breaks just before the far turn so I think it is a very short run to the turn.
Like I said, in my mind, the trip will have the most to do with the winner in all probability. Seems like the more likely "good" trip will be the 6, but there is no way of knowing beforehand. It's just a guess.
Need to look under the wide safety rail to see if there is debris and small dirt clods or if it is smooth and clean also. The grader blade gets under that and will alert you to a freshly graded rail, or not. Always good to know that to look for tendencies and biases.

That's my take. I will record it if I can't watch it.

Thanks JBEX.

yes I see what you're saying that you think the 6 might sit a nice trip off the 1 and 4 going at it..I was looking at it (besides the post) more with how the 8 responds after a sub par effort..it's interesting that he had the 8 post again in his last start when they bumped him up to 15k..as you said a lot depends on the trip for him..the 4 seems to have superior pace figures and think it's likely he might be out there on his own.we'll see what happens..thanks for your opinion

[str]

yes I see what you're saying that you think the 6 might sit a nice trip off the 1 and 4 going at it..I was looking at it (besides the post) more with how the 8 responds after a sub par effort..it's interesting that he had the 8 post again in his last start when they bumped him up to 15k..as you said a lot depends on the trip for him..the 4 seems to have superior pace figures and think it's likely he might be out there on his own.we'll see what happens..thanks for your opinion

If the 8 had the 2 post, I would be all over it and I know you would be as well. And I agree that the 4 is a faster horse than the 1 but with a short run into the 1st turn, he will have to be almost 2 lengths faster than the 1 to cross over and unless be beats the gate or the 1 breaks a step slow, he will be having to outrun the inside horse while losing ground as well. That is why it seems like a great pace set up for the 6 or 8 IMO.
Question. Could the 2 horse save ground and sit off and inherit a lead at probably 20-1? It's a stretch but crazy things happen when a pace collapses and this one has a chance to do that.

[JBEX]

If the 8 had the 2 post, I would be all over it and I know you would be as well. And I agree that the 4 is a faster horse than the 1 but with a short run into the 1st turn, he will have to be almost 2 lengths faster than the 1 to cross over and unless be beats the gate or the 1 breaks a step slow, he will be having to outrun the inside horse while losing ground as well. That is why it seems like a great pace set up for the 6 or 8 IMO.
Question. Could the 2 horse save ground and sit off and inherit a lead at probably 20-1? It's a stretch but crazy things happen when a pace collapses and this one has a chance to do that.

hey he came to life in his 3rd career start and got a win at 35-1and was triple digits before that just like his last race..anything possible at these tracks