Sad day today but about time
Miracle trainers
On a positive note , my buddies horse untitled has a shot at the derby
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03-09-20 01:35 PM #4026
Last edited by Louisvillekid1; 03-09-20 at 01:41 PM.
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03-09-20 01:36 PM #4027
just realized over 4000 comments in this thread! wow
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03-09-20 01:38 PM #4028
It’s coming , diodoro is def dirty as well
Originally Posted by littlekona
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03-09-20 01:46 PM #4029
Wow i just read indictment and the harness guys are in on it too...surick (Millers must be too then), oaks and the weasel rick dane...lol
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03-09-20 04:58 PM #4030
With the dust still settling from Maximum Security’s historic disqualification from the 2019 Kentucky Derby last June, trainer Jason Servis nearly had another controversy on his hands.
According to an indictment handed down Monday by the U.S. District Attorney’s Office of the Southern District of New York, which includes extensive allegations of Servis doping his horses with an illegal substance, Maximum Security had received a shot of SGF-1000 in the days leading up to his return race. But New Jersey regulators wanted a drug test.
The colt, already a winner of the Florida Derby (G1) and first across the wire in the Kentucky Derby, was to make his comeback in the June 16 Pegasus Stakes. In his system was a substance that, per the indictment, “is a customized (performance-enhancing drug) purportedly containing ‘growth factors.’”
Veterinarian Kristian Rhein, named as a defendant, reassured Servis, saying, “There’s no test for it in America.”
Here is another segment I found on Horse racing Nation.
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03-09-20 05:03 PM #4031
16K MDN claimer to superstar Horse. Maximum Security. Now we know why? SGF-1000
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03-09-20 05:37 PM #4032
ha this is the best https://twitter.com/ShamIAmNot/statu...003075/photo/1
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03-09-20 06:26 PM #4033
As most of you know, there are two areas that this thread represents as far as I am concerned.
First, how much I appreciate all of you for allowing me, trusting me, and believing in me to answer your questions with honesty, integrity and as much fact and as little opinion without identifying it as such, as possible.
Second is that I will often times, and sometimes to the demise of the answer, speak from the heart about a sport that I truly loved, and still do, about my experiences during the years I worked there and about what I see and how I interpret it from those years of experience.
Today was an incredible day. My phone has rang more than once. I want to spend all evening talking about it.
But I am going to ask for a favor. Please allow me to let this day sink in and I will come back tomorrow morning
and address every question or comment that has been left.
I am fearful that if I answered them now, tonight, I might say the wrong things or regret what I say because of a caught in the moment response. Because we both deserve better than that, let me get to these in the morning. Once I do, follow ups are more than welcome.
Thanks everyone for your understanding.
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03-10-20 07:00 AM #4034
They are high profile because they cheat. That is what got them there. Originally Posted by Easy-Rider 66
Yes, this will deter others. You will see some other trainers drop off in win % because of this. I don't mean for one meet but for the foreseeable future. Draw your own conclusion but where there is smoke, there is fire IMO.
Trainers can get hot or cold, have a barn ready to explode or whatever for a meet or several months. But if they are legit, and as I have said a thousand times, the vast majority are, they will tail off and slump because their horses will run out of conditions , get claimed away or that sort of thing. The only way you keep it up long term is a small track trainer that is constantly fed new horses with conditions that can rattle off 2-3 wins . But after that, they move out for another horse that also needs the drop and class relief to be able to win a few. That is an easy game but you won't see that at major racing venues.
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03-10-20 07:12 AM #4035
This had to happen. These trainers hitting 35-40% long term need to be stopped. This will go along way. Originally Posted by trytrytry
I sincerely hope that racing turns this into their finest hour. They have a chance. But they have had plenty before and screwed them up with individual greed. From the horsemen to the jockey's, to the fans and up to the track owners, they are rarely if ever on the same page.
Racing needs a commissioner. Probably never happen because of the individual track ownership that only wants what is best for them today, not long term.
Horsemen need to stick together and come up with solutions that benefit everyone. But... because of stuff just like this, you will get push back from those that have an edge to possibly have to give up.
The game needs to be grabbed by the throat and made to conform. The owners have the power to make that happen. But they won't. The trainers have the power. But they won't. The fans have the power. But they won't. Why? Individual greed.
Nobody is willing to sacrifice today for a better tomorrow. None of them. So, the beat goes on.
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03-10-20 07:13 AM #4036
Good ! Originally Posted by trytrytry
I hope they get everyone of them.
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03-10-20 07:22 AM #4037
My best guess is something will come out soon. They had to be in some sort of coordination. But infiltrating barns with people that can monitor and understand what they are seeing takes time. Couple of years IMO. I would have to assume that they have their eyes on So. Cal as well. If they don't, they should. Originally Posted by mrginandtonic
I can't just shoot off my mouth irresponsibly ( but I'm dying to), but there is no doubt in my mind that some bad stuff is going on in So. Cal just like it has been at Monmouth and other places back east. Again, lets watch the % of some high profile trainers now. Sudden drops are not necessarily a sign of guilt as I have explained. But it's not rocket science to figure out if there are clear reasons or not so clear reasons. If they are not so clear, well, you tell me.
Always a pleasure Mr. GandT.
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03-10-20 07:38 AM #4038
Yeah STR Servis and Navarro looking at up to 10 years in the Joint. Should be a wake up call to all cheaters. also too one of Navarro's prime horse's XY Jet dies of a heart attack at age 8. Supposedly the horse was on the juice quite a lot. what a shame not only cheating humans but affecting the horses in a negative fashion as well. THx for the take. Originally Posted by str
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03-10-20 07:57 AM #4039
Maximum Security, recent winner of the $20-million Saudi Cup, will be transferred to the barn of Hall of Fame trainer Bob Baffert.
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03-10-20 08:04 AM #4040
Agreed. Originally Posted by cutchemist42
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03-10-20 08:05 AM #4041
Sad but probably true. Originally Posted by littlekona
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03-10-20 08:07 AM #4042
I look at it as a great day Kid. Originally Posted by Louisvillekid1
Thats awesome about your friend having a shot at the Derby.
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03-10-20 08:11 AM #4043
Let's keep an eye on the win % going forward. Originally Posted by Louisvillekid1
Nobody is so superior to others that they hit that high a % all the time.
Unless it is what I explained earlier. No trick to that. Just make them 3-5 , run through their conditions, try once in open company and if they can't hack it, out they go and in with another maiden that is dropping way down.
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03-10-20 08:12 AM #4044
Don't follow trotters but good. Screw cheaters. Originally Posted by littlekona
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03-10-20 08:18 AM #4045
Easy, that stuff is a big edge but not that big. That horse is a really nice horse. My guess is his really slow workouts fooled everybody up to his 1st race. Some horses do that. Not often but I've seen that more than once. Pretty sure I have written about that in here. Originally Posted by Easy-Rider 66
He is a great horse. The drugs can't make that big a difference. But they can allow for what some call a restart where the horse looks tired, the fractions say it should be tired and then they re kick through the lane. I saw plenty of that in the 90's and nobody is that friggin good a trainer to have it happen over and over again. Won't name names but the results and video don't lie.
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03-10-20 08:25 AM #4046
Because most only serve a fraction of the time given, this should be 20 years IMO. Look at the trickle down effect of what they did. Those owners and trainers and all involved that did not win . That did not gain new owners , that did not get the press needed to help a career flourish. Originally Posted by Easy-Rider 66
And if all this is true, that heartfelt press release about XY Jet shows you who that guy really is.
This makes me sick.
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03-10-20 08:26 AM #4047
That IS the best ! Originally Posted by littlekona
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03-10-20 08:47 AM #4048
OK STR thx for your opinion. But in my mind Let's see what Baffert does with Max Security. If the horse fails to fire then imo it was the juice. Time will tell. Originally Posted by str
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03-10-20 09:37 AM #4049
I know that there are some trainers out there who were hopeful that when they came to the barn this morning, there wasn't FBI all over the place.
They know who they are. And right now, they are uneasy.
It's been 30 years coming. Yesterday it finally arrived.
I feel like I should somehow apologize for the actions of the game to all you folks that read this thread. What the indictments speak to makes me feel dirty, ashamed, angry, sad, and yet, in a weird way relieved.
This isn't what racing is. It's what a few bad people within the racing population have portrayed it to be.
I want to reassure anyone that cares to believe me, that the % of cheaters on the backside are very very small. There are a ton of people you would so enjoy if you could meet them. And if you spent any time with them, you would realize that what they do is care for their horses, care for the game as well as it's integrity. They love what they do and cheating never crosses their minds. But like anything else, you will always have a few bad actors that only care to help themselves and do not care who gets hurt doing so.
I do understand that when you see a trainer get a positive test, the conclusion is usually that they were taking an edge. And while that conclusion is usually incorrect, the skepticism is understandable. Especially because of the uncertainty of what the drug is used for and why it was given.
If the positive is for a legal substance, it is almost always a mistake. And these mistakes are made because of the many moving parts of how a barn functions. Especially a large barn. If it is an illegal drug, there are no excuses.
A positive is a positive, no two ways about it. Even if the drug is legal but was in the blood stream when it should not have been. And they should all be treated the same way. But they aren't. High profile trainers will always get an edge over lesser known trainers. I don't need to name names for you folks. And I know that double standard first hand.
The perception in the bettors minds eye is a trainer with syringes going from stall to stall. I get that. I would probably feel the same way if I did not experience it. But that could not be further from the truth. But... in what I just read in the indictment, it states that that mental picture was indeed correct, at least in one barn. That breaks a multitude of rules that most live by daily.
I am truly sickened by what I read in those indictments. Not surprised though. Racing has allowed this crap to go on for far too long. Instead of really doing something about it, they pull a stunt like what they did to Ricky D.
Yeah, racing really got cleaned up when they did that ! Disgraceful !
I know that I have said this before but do remember that a horse can only get a positive if the state chemist tests for that particular drug. It just doesn't come back positive. That is what was apparently going on here. There was no test for it. One thing can fix that. MONEY. Federal money. Take it out of all the taxes that are paid to the government from racing.
If the federal government wants to help fix this , put money towards the states chemists so they can have the tools in which to go after these people. And shore up the security of the labs where the urine and blood are tested. I was always told that no horses were identified in tests. All were assigned numbers and letters with each jar or vile and all that worked there could not identify any horses from the samples.
But back in the day, the Laurel Park lab , which is underneath the grandstand was wide open for anyone to see. I walked in looking for the head chemist one day and nobody was there. This was mid morning. So I look around from the door and what do I see? A program with the order of finish written on it. Well, we all know that this was someone who worked there that was betting a few bucks on the races. But for Christ's Sake! You can't have that. Maybe pay these people enough and make them get a security clearance to work there. Hell, it's only 5 miles from NSA, at Fort Meade Md., get a tip or two from them on how to tighten up security.
Now don't get me wrong. Whoever was working there was just betting the races. It was obvious. But... the look is as bad and amateurish as it possibly could be. THAT, deserved a C'mon Man !
When will the track decide to clean itself up? I hope I live to see the day. I won't hold my breath but I can hope.
And I am real sorry that racing has let you people down. It did that to me as well. But, if you are like me, and most of you are, you really do care for the game and enjoy it.
There is no doubt that some good will come from this. But how much? I don't know. But here's hoping.
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03-10-20 09:40 AM #4050
I'm not saying it didn't help him to an extent. It had to of, at least some. But with it or without it, he's a darn nice horse. Originally Posted by Easy-Rider 66
As for who trains him now? I have no comment on that.
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03-10-20 09:41 AM #4051
good write up STR. again can tell how much you love the game. Let's hope some good comes out of this mess.
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03-10-20 12:30 PM #4052
Yeah, you are right. Just read that it’s still an ongoing investigation.... I’m sure there will be more to come.... including California. Thanks again as always. Originally Posted by str
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03-10-20 01:16 PM #4053
gosh when rick was found to be setup recently I thought maybe I was being to harsh with guys like navarro and servis (jason).. guess I wasn't.. not that I was the only one to think that they were crooked.. I remember about 15-20 years ago (sounds about right.. if anything further back) bruce levine (nyra) was popping at a way too high rate.. don't remember if they found him to be doing anything but he eventually settled back to being an average trainer again.. you remember that str?
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03-10-20 01:32 PM #4054
Ha, you think it's a coincidence that Santa Anita finally releases its report on those 23 deaths today ...
https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...ad_in_full_123
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03-10-20 01:54 PM #4055
Yep. I remember. Don't know the particulars though. Originally Posted by JBEX
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03-10-20 02:00 PM #4056
I don't believe in coincidences Kid. Originally Posted by Louisvillekid1
Did they cancel the already drawn card for Friday at Santa Anita before or after the announcement yesterday of the indictments ?
Just wondering.
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03-10-20 02:06 PM #4057
Did they say which drugs they tested for? Originally Posted by Louisvillekid1
That might help.
How about retest them for this new crap.
If we are going for transparency, let's get friggin transparent Santa Anita.
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03-10-20 07:39 PM #4058
This list IMO @ least 9 use PED's
Thoughts?
https://s.amsu.ng/7SvzKOsMScTNLast edited by littlekona; 03-10-20 at 07:48 PM.
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03-10-20 07:56 PM #4059
Didodoro , Claudio , ness , Miller I think dirty Originally Posted by littlekona
Like to think ward / Cox clean
But who honestly knows
Follow the % going forward , prob speak for themselves
Servis and Navarro could just be the examples to be made out of. Sorta like pitino in NCAAb when feds got involved...
But reading about them is sickening , especially Navarro , even worse than I thought
Asmussen is another big one I had my questions about , but maybe he cleaned up
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03-11-20 06:43 AM #4060
Brad cox declined to even take the horses, saying doesn’t fell comfortable , that’s gonna say something
I think because maybe rockingham stables knew what was going on as well
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