[JBEX]

https://www.horseraceinsider.com/ken...k-state-actor/

[Thunderground]

It is the truth coming out. I guess the guilty conscience is catching up to some of the retired guys. This whole thing was set up for the public to think NY was trying to clean up racing and at the same time rid themselves of someone they had no answer for. Sadly, they pulled it off. And in the process they ruined his life.
Those that know him well or were around him at the time have known this since day 1.
What they did to him makes me sick.

Wow...

From article: “This is a reaffirmation of my remarks of several years ago during Rick Dutrow’s violation hearing,” stated Bramlage, widely regarded as one of the world’s leading equine surgeons.
“I still hold his record with us as a consulting and treating veterinary resource for his stable in high regard. To have trained as many horses at a high level for as long as he trained them and not have a single fatal injury on your record is a phenomenal testament to the care he gave his horses.”


Rick Dutrow didn't have a single fatal injury?

[JBEX]

terrible miscarriage of justice.. a shame for anybody but especially someone as talented as him.. considering, as str said, he learned from one of the best in his dad ,richard dutrow sr, it's not so hard to grasp that he produced the great results he did.. listen if you win a high % over time the market eventually adjusts to that so when you beat him you get value.. in the short term though people get pissed and the whispers of "cheater" surface

[Thunderground]

https://pastthewire.com/rick-dutrow/

What a horrible injustice.

He never had a horse breaking down. Confirmed in the above article. Can you put that in perspective str? It seems amazing enough to me, almost magical, but what does that say about him?

Found this:

On Direct from Defense Counsel: “The only capacity I’ve known Rick is our professional relationship…He sends us horses for examination when he suspects there is a problem…

“…I very much like to work on his horses because he recognizes problems prior to their becoming very serious for the horse. He’s one of the top handful of trainers that we work for that’s able to do that…
“Interestingly, not all prominent trainers are able to recognize the problems and respond to them as quickly as he does…
“The health of his horses are impeccable when we get them. One of the reasons I like working for Rick is that his problems are recognized early and, therefore, we have a chance to save the quality and longevity of the horse…”
“He’s never once told me that we want to do this a cheaper way or a less satisfactory way…he says ‘we want to do this in the best way’…
“So it’s a pleasure to work for him because he’s very much willing to do the right thing for the horse. He’s always done what we recommended as the highest quality treatment…”
There was no cross examination from state counsel and no questions for Bramlage from the Hearing Officer, who thanked him for his time.
Added context: During the hearing state counsel made an issue of Fastus Cactus big class drop, the inference being the 5-year-old gelding was somehow infirm. Dutrow was asked why the dropdown: “Because the owner told me to put him in that race.” It was a $14,000 claiming race.
Fastus Cactus won that race November 20 and was claimed by Naipaul Chatterpaul. Fastus Cactus raced five times for his new connections, from date of claim to March 5. During that time he won on the raise to $20,000 less than two weeks later, finished third for $60,000 the following start and four months after that finished second in the Grade 3 Tom Fool.
Chatterpaul obviously had made a good claim. On July 8, Fastus Cactus finished sixth on a sloppy Belmont track and he lost the horse via claim to Bruce Brown for $25,000.
Dutrow had run Fastus Cactus in seven races after claiming him, winning four.
And there is this: According to the best available records and recollections of veteran racing media dating back to Dutrow’s last day as a trainer, January 17, 2013, no horse trained by him suffered a catastrophic breakdown at a NYRA track, either racing or training, for 11 consecutive years.
I wonder how a “juicer” accomplishes that? source: https://pastthewire.com/rick-dutrow-revisited/

[str]

Wow...

From article: “This is a reaffirmation of my remarks of several years ago during Rick Dutrow’s violation hearing,” stated Bramlage, widely regarded as one of the world’s leading equine surgeons.
“I still hold his record with us as a consulting and treating veterinary resource for his stable in high regard. To have trained as many horses at a high level for as long as he trained them and not have a single fatal injury on your record is a phenomenal testament to the care he gave his horses.”


Rick Dutrow didn't have a single fatal injury?

Some statistics can be skewed in whichever direction someone wants to massage them. I cannot say yes or no to that answer. Mainly because I do not know what "they" count as a fatal injury. So let me tell you what I do know.


Every trainer that ever came out of the Richard E. Dutrow racing stable, came out with a complete understanding of how Dickie did things. It wasn't an outfit that just did things whatever way that might be easy or in vogue at the time, or whatever was convenient. There was one way to handle whatever came up. It was Dickie's way. Period. And everyone that aspired to become a trainer and worked there understood it. This is not to say that they all trained the same way, but what I am saying is it was THE way everyone was taught.

Here is a small glimpse inside that barn.

Dickie was on the rail every morning the second the track opened. That was 6 AM nine months a year and 5:30 AM during the summer months. It did not matter if it was -10 degrees or already getting hot out. If he had two strings, which he did in 1975 when he was the leading trainer in the world, he was there every other day. Not hard to do when the races were in Md. but when he had divisions in Md. and Delaware during the summer, there was travel involved daily.

Everyday, he watched every single horse walk out to the track where he double checked with the rider as to what he had posted on the training chart in the tack room at 5:15- 5:30 AM , earlier that morning. He then watched each horse train from start to finish. They would walk right past him when finished and he would check with the exercise rider with any comments either might have had. A few other trainers came and went with their horses and many resided in the track kitchen watching what they could see and talking to whoever. Not Dickie though. If someone wanted to talk to him, they had to go to the track and stand with him.

After he had watched every horse train he went into every stall and checked every horse with his asst. trainer and foreman. He would look at each horse, then get on his knees and slowly check each leg of every horse. He checked for heat in the joints , bones feet, or for filling of any kind. The grooms would joke that he could feel heat in an ice cube. And that was not too far off. He used what he had seen yesterday or two days ago in the summer as the template in his mind in which to compare what he was seeing today. He did this with all 48 horses in his barn. The asst. trainer would carry a clipboard and write down every comment he made about any change in any leg he felt. If he did see any change that he was the least bit concerned with other than a superficial scrape or something like that, he told the asst. trainer to have the vet look at him. (More on the vet in a minute).

Remember, every horse, everyday. Dickie had a memory when it came to horses that was incredible. He could tell you what bit every horse he trained wore. Same with Blinkers, tongue ties, bandages, and if they stood in ice, poultice, had absorbine painted on their legs, alcohol, ball solution, or any mix that he used.
Every bleeder was on shavings and a special feed to cut down on dust. Not that many other trainers did that until they noticed he was doing it. It was more expensive as well, so many chose not to for that reason. They never got hay. He knew exactly how much hay each horse ate and wanted to know right away if the groom noticed a change of any kind. He monitored through each groom how much water each horse drank everyday. If they ate up or left a bit. He monitored the 4:30 AM scoop of oats all horses except bleeders ate ( bleeders had feed all the time whereas others only had grain 3 times a day and hay all the time), as well as how fast they ate it.

Before each horse left the stall each day, they had their temperature taken , written down and compared to previous days results. Any variations were reported to him .
If ANYTHING was not exactly the same from day to day, he wanted to hear from the groom as he checked that grooms horse. He checked every horses feet. Nobody could pack any feet with heat drawing mud until he had seen the horse. Every horse wore bandages after he saw them. And I could go on and on.
It did not matter if you were the best horse in the barn or the cheapest claimer in the barn. Every horse was treated equally.

I knew of no other trainer in Maryland that did all this in the early 70's. Some did most of it, others some of it, and more still very little of it.

So it is not a surprise that those that worked for him and became trainers were all over these things and were immediately upon starting to train, more aware of their horses overall well being than most other trainers were. Now if they chose not to do everything they were shown how to do, that was their decision. More did than didn't and most slowly adopted their own style which might or might not have included all these things I mentioned and many other daily routines I did not.

Ricky, was his father's son. Same with the other two boys as well. They only knew one way . So that's what they did. Trainers that learned from Dickie were so far ahead of where the majority of other trainers were when it came to leg problems that the breakdown rate HAD to be more under control in that environment then it would be in other environment. Simple logic tells you that. So not only am I not surprised by that stat you mentioned, and it would go for at least 8-10 other trainers I could mention. I doubt many could boast "never" having a single fatality, but it would be expected that their numbers would be far less than average for horsemen.
These numbers really come into play if that Dutrow disciple had the opportunity to be a foreman or asst. trainer for any length of time like Ricky did, as that allowed for hundreds of horses to be examined each year and have much more knowledge because of those numbers.

There is no question in my mind that Ricky's breakdown numbers would be way down compared to most other trainers, as would that small group of others that had an opportunity to be part of that barn in the capacity he was in, back in the 70's and 80's. So if he actually had none or if someone wants to refute that and say he had one or whatever might transpire from that, the bottom line was, that Ricky took as good a care of his horse, and was as on top of their overall condition as much or more than 99.99% of all trainers licensed in that time frame. And like his dad, it did not matter how fast or slow the horse was. If they were in his barn, they were all treated the same way.

So let's talk about the vet. Dutrow always used the top vet on the grounds. He didn't want new vets he wanted his group of 2-3 from the top firm in Md. He trusted them and knew he could depend on their advice. They would look at what had been observed and give their input. That input would be told to Dickie the next morning or earlier if necessary and whatever needed to be done to give the horse it's best chance to thrive would then go into motion.

What I see Dr. Bramlage saying in your quote is exactly how Ricky was taught.

As for drugs in the barn: Other than bute in pill form which was 100% legal and probably all barns had it and maybe some types of totally legal and widely used powders, etc. there were never ANY drugs in the barn. This nonsense about syringes is just plain ignorant. It never existed in that barn. Did it exist in other barns? Yes, in a few I am just about positive. But in that barn? No sir. Never.
Any drug administered, was given directly by the vet. They were all legal to use. They were all documented and all that paperwork was submitted to the Stewards on a weekly basis. But you don't hear much about that do you? Guess it might take away from the myth.

Anyone that worked at Dickie's barn never saw a syringe and needle unless it was in the hands of a vet. Nobody gave horses any shots EVER, unless it was the vet. That's the way it was and I have no doubt that's the way it also was in Ricky's barn.

Dickie was the closest thing to a robot when it came to routine with horses that I had ever seen. That too was passed on albeit in various degrees to those that worked there in the upper levels of the barn.

So when I hear someone talk about Ricky as a drug trainer, that tells me immediately that that person has no idea what they are talking about. The same would go for the others that came from the Dick Dutrow barn and went on to train. Off the top of my head I could probably name 7 that have collectively won over 11,000 races. Of those 7, none of them has ever been caught with syringes in their barns and I highly doubt any have ever had a positive test that was not a mistake for a legal medication given too close to race time. I do not recall any. I would guess that their overall breakdown rates were far less than the average over a ten year period or longer.

I could go on and on but I think you see my point.

What happened to Ricky is just not right. When I think about it, it truly makes me sick. I can only hope that the truth will come out sooner rather than later. It seems to be starting to now. Way too late IMO but at least it's a start.

Hope that helps better see what took place and what kind of foundation Ricky had laid for him.

[Thunderground]

Thanks for such a detailed description, str. Hope they catch the criminals who planted the evidence, and that it's not too late for him to get his life back.

[JBEX]

wow ..a great peek into how dutrow sr ran things ..easy to see why so many trainers under his tutelage (including yourself)did so well when they ventured out on their own


would it be fair to say that rick's (jr) tremendous success
was taking what he learned and adding to it his own " horse sense " ,for lack of a better term ?? besides learning under one of the best guessing there still has to be innate ability,to achieve on the level that he did

[Thunderground]

It's beautiful. I've read it several times. Good to know there are trainers like that out there (you must have been one of them, or you couldn't have noticed all that detail).

I have an unusual question. Do you think that there is such a thing as herd awareness and herd behavior, possibly at a subconscious level, in a group of horses going around the track? I suppose the underlying question is about herd behavior and hierarchy in wild horses. It's a strange question, but it has to do with patterns I've observed that determine those strange days when the longshots come in. I slowly learned to recognize those situations, but I don't know why it's happening. Could it be, for instance, that there are scenarios, in wild horses, where there is a sense of danger, and the herd responds to that by rearranging the order of the strong and the weak? In other words, if there was danger the strongest wouldn't race ahead, but would drop back to keep an eye on the weaker ones, and the weaker ones would know to go towards the front. It's just a hypothesis. If it's nonsensical, I have to look in another direction for an explanation.

[str]

wow ..a great peek into how dutrow sr ran things ..easy to see why so many trainers under his tutelage (including yourself)did so well when they ventured out on their own


would it be fair to say that rick's (jr) tremendous success
was taking what he learned and adding to it his own " horse sense " ,for lack of a better term ?? besides learning under one of the best guessing there still has to be innate ability,to achieve on the level that he did

Completely spot on !

As Ricky matured into a full time trainer, it is my opinion that he simply began to see things that most others didn't see. Kind of a gift that very few have. His sometimes off the wall maneuvers in most people's eyes were nothing near that to him. He did some incredible things with horses that, in a world of gambling, deceit and excuses was perceived by others as cheating.

His talent as a horseman IMO is off the charts.

The drug stuff is complete nonsense. The bad press was what was fed to the press or what was wrongfully assumed. And that trickled down to the horse players who rely on the press and gossip, to try and understand who he is. The public could not be more wrong . But with all that was fed to them and left to try and understand a world they have never spent a day in, the easy conclusion is to simply say, he is a cheater. He is a lot of things but that was and is as inaccurate a conclusion as anyone could ever draw.

He made bad decisions when it came to management of all the details that being a trainer comes with. But a bad decision about a horse was very rare. He talked to the press and told the unfiltered truth. What a mistake in the world we live in. Some of those that shine the brightest in this sport rarely tell the truth and are as full of crap as you can get.

If most of you ever had the chance to be around him, you would love him.

[str]

It's beautiful. I've read it several times. Good to know there are trainers like that out there (you must have been one of them, or you couldn't have noticed all that detail).

I have an unusual question. Do you think that there is such a thing as herd awareness and herd behavior, possibly at a subconscious level, in a group of horses going around the track? I suppose the underlying question is about herd behavior and hierarchy in wild horses. It's a strange question, but it has to do with patterns I've observed that determine those strange days when the longshots come in. I slowly learned to recognize those situations, but I don't know why it's happening. Could it be, for instance, that there are scenarios, in wild horses, where there is a sense of danger, and the herd responds to that by rearranging the order of the strong and the weak? In other words, if there was danger the strongest wouldn't race ahead, but would drop back to keep an eye on the weaker ones, and the weaker ones would know to go towards the front. It's just a hypothesis. If it's nonsensical, I have to look in another direction for an explanation.

Q.Do you think that there is such a thing as herd awareness and herd behavior, possibly at a subconscious level, in a group of horses going around the track?

A. I suppose so to some extent.

Q. It's a strange question, but it has to do with patterns I've observed that determine those strange days when the longshots come in.

A. From what I have seen, when a lot of longshots come in, other than the breeders cup days or days like that, the first thing I always look for is a bias. Are all the winners doing the same thing? On the same place on the track? And not just the winners but a longshot that runs second? And where did the favorites race?

I say other than because long shots do occur on BC days. But sometimes a bias does have a hand in that.



The next thing I look for is the pace. Too slow or too fast can allow inferior horses on paper to run much better than anticipated as you know.
If I see this early in the card, for me, it is more important than reading the form. I need to be confident in a bias or no clear bias. If I'm not, I have no edge whatsoever. I'm just another guy in the seats.

Lastly on this, I don't know why the herd angle would last from race to race. Too many different equine personalities to expect most of them to all be on the same page.

Q. I slowly learned to recognize those situations, but I don't know why it's happening.

A. Try and speed that recognition up. I feel this is vitally important.

If I see the 1st race paid 30.00 the first thing I look for is the trip the winner had and the trip the favorites had. If the track pattern repeats itself in the 2nd race, you are most likely on to something. And it does not have to last all day so go race to race with it. More often than not it is a bias, equipment change(including gelded), change of tactics like showed speed or dropped back as compared to its previous race or races, or a trip situation.
The minority of the time, the horse just woke up which can happen a lot with a horse that has only raced once or twice, or something like that. There is always a reason and most are detectable. It might take some digging though.

If you find a card that does this, let me know and we can go over the charts to see if we can see anything. I say charts because we are on the internet. Video replays are always much much better.

Q. Could it be, for instance, that there are scenarios, in wild horses, where there is a sense of danger, and the herd responds to that by rearranging the order of the strong and the weak? In other words, if there was danger the strongest wouldn't race ahead, but would drop back to keep an eye on the weaker ones, and the weaker ones would know to go towards the front.

A. In wild horses sure. That makes sense. But while race horses are trained to stay together when they first start out, it is done because of everything being new to them. Fences, poles, noises, the wind blowing something, a car going by, you name it, they will be afraid of it until they can get used to it. But once they have been around their surroundings for a month or so, they know where everything is and they are ok with it. Never ok with blowing objects though.

(One of my best friends trained a horse that trained everyday at Pimlico for 3 months but was being led over as the odds on favorite in a stake on Preakness day and was spooked by the 60 foot high Pillsbury Doughboy blowing side to side while walking to the paddock to be saddled. He rears up, gets loose, runs home, falls on the cement has to scratch and gets about 40 stitches. Can you imagine that conversation with the owner?

Owner: Hey, what happened?
Trainer: Well, he saw the Pillsbury Doughboy and went crazy and hurt himself and wont race for another 100 days.

True story back in the 80's and I tell it because after many years gone, I noticed the doughboy balloon again at the Preakness last year. Friggin Pillsbury Doughboy. Give me a break! Tough business, but I do like those biscuits.)

So once they are used to it, they are taught to accelerate through the stretch and win when head and head. Their bloodlines have that in them and repetition usually brings that out in them.

Typically, but not always, once a horse has run, they gallop alone. They might walk to the track in a set but break off and train solo usually. Many are too hard to control if put in sets because it gets their competitive juices flowing and they think it's time to compete.
I think the comfort level of racing together is overcome by the competitive drive that is bred into them and accentuated all the time as they race and train.

Personally, I would check hard for a bias albeit speed, rail, outside speed, outside closers or whatever. This goes for both turf and dirt but it is rare to see both have a bias the same day other than a big venue like the triple crown races or something like that. Weather, impending weather, or the pressure to have the track souped up on major days makes for difficult decisions by the track superintendent sometimes and if anyone makes enough decisions, they will be wrong at least sometimes.
If you see a lot of high priced horses winning on a given day, it is your job to seek out why. There won't always be an answer but there will be often enough to put you well ahead for those days that it occured if you can follow the trend and hit a race or two. And if the price is right, that is all you need to make a meet.

Hope that makes sense and feel free to follow up.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Interesting take STR. When a shot or 2 come in you look for any possible bias? I usually look at the form to try and find out why. Will have to pay more attention to possible bias situations. Thx for the take.

[str]

Interesting take STR. When a shot or 2 come in you look for any possible bias? I usually look at the form to try and find out why. Will have to pay more attention to possible bias situations. Thx for the take.

The reason I said bias 1st is because it is time sensitive depending on the post time for the 2nd race. Sure, you look at the pp's of the longshot winner but only for a minute or so. Plenty of time to look harder after you have eliminated a bias being present.
But the replay will show me where the favorites were in conjunction to the winner as well as the trips for both. It will also show the trip of the 2nd horse.

Being from Md., weather is a big deal and biases are usually weather driven. I prefer not to see a bias. But if one exists, I want to ride that train as far as it takes me.

[Easy-Rider 66]

The reason I said bias 1st is because it is time sensitive depending on the post time for the 2nd race. Sure, you look at the pp's of the longshot winner but only for a minute or so. Plenty of time to look harder after you have eliminated a bias being present.
But the replay will show me where the favorites were in conjunction to the winner as well as the trips for both. It will also show the trip of the 2nd horse.

Being from Md., weather is a big deal and biases are usually weather driven. I prefer not to see a bias. But if one exists, I want to ride that train as far as it takes me.

ok got it. Timeform PP's has pretty detailed info on track bias from previous races that a horse has run. Brisnet PP's has general info on possible bias. Will keep it in mind to look for it the day of the races.. Thx.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Hey STR: General inquiry here. But what do you think leads to a better performance? 2nd or 3rd off the layoff? I have been noticing a few horses that do nothing 1st off the layoff and then come back 2nd out and fire. Thx.

[str]

Hey STR: General inquiry here. But what do you think leads to a better performance? 2nd or 3rd off the layoff? I have been noticing a few horses that do nothing 1st off the layoff and then come back 2nd out and fire. Thx.

The rule of thumb is the 3rd race will be the optimum effort. This will definitely hold true at small tracks where we are typically talking about trainers on tight budgets who might need to race fit in lieu of spending the money it takes to get a horse fit early on. Checking the info on 1st off time, 2nd off time can really help.
This comes into play less where bigger name outfits race. Give the stats provided for time off a solid look. That's a start. Also look at the race the horse is placed in and what the goal is as far as distance is concerned. For instance, if you see a 7/8ths off time for a horse that wants to go long, that horse will probably be ready to compete in it's 2nd start if its a 1 1/16th. If longer, better look at the trainers ability to have them ready.
At CT if you ever play there, small farm training outfits that run 4 1/2F off time with a low% can really show nothing twice and run real well 3rd time out at a nice price. Man that has worked forever up there.
Also , the rider selection can be a real clue. When you see a top rider on 2nd out, that horse is fit enough to win. Unless they ride everything for a trainer, that trainer does not want to piss off a top rider by putting them on a horse that is not fit enough.

Also if they drop on the 3rd off the lay, they are probably ready to roll.
The selection of the distance and the rider can tell you the story often times if the horse is off major time. (6 months or longer).
It's a puzzle but it is not that hard to piece together once you get the hang of it.

If you need a hand looking at a couple of these to get the flow of it, get the pp's in here and we can do it together.
Nothing works all the time but you can get a pretty good feel for it with some practice.
Hope that helps.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Thx STR. Yeah do not know how to get PP's in your thread, but will look for those angles.

[str]

Thx STR. Yeah do not know how to get PP's in your thread, but will look for those angles.

Feel free to follow up as you go.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Feel free to follow up as you go.

OK thx. GP R3: the #3 Extra Extra at 24/1 2nd off layoff same level just scored. Did not run much last race. Been seeing this at times.

[str]

OK thx. GP R3: the #3 Extra Extra at 24/1 2nd off layoff same level just scored. Did not run much last race. Been seeing this at times.

Second off the lay at GP in the winter makes sense. It will depend on the situation and place the trainer is running. At Saratoga this summer, 2nd off the lay or even 1st off the lay is more the norm than 3rd. But at CharlesTown, with a no name trainer 3rd off the lay is almost a given. See what I mean? It's going to depend on the place. Like Oaklawn now, 2nd off the lay or possibly 1st. Yes, 3rd is optimum but you can bet the trainers that spend the money and time to ship there are not going to race a horse fit.

Anywhere where stalls are hard to come by, 2nd off the lay is a solid play if you think the horse can win it. Maybe that is how I should have phrased it before.

[littlekona]

Guys question....fountain of youth Chance It scratches out because connection did not like post...WTF bull is that? Can connections just scratch out any race due to post draws? Or is there fine or other penalties as it seems BS tgey allow that

[JBEX]

Guys question....fountain of youth Chace It scratches out because connection did not like post...WTF bull is that? Can connections just scratch out any race due to post draws? Or is there fine or other penalties as it seems BS tgey allow that

I agree with you but since it is can certainly understand the trainer wanting out.. if I feel that strongly about my horse (and this one's really impressive on paper) I don't want him killing himself from post 12
in this race.. train him up to the (more than likely) florida derby makes more sense..like to hear str's opinion on this

[str]

Guys question....fountain of youth Chance It scratches out because connection did not like post...WTF bull is that? Can connections just scratch out any race due to post draws? Or is there fine or other penalties as it seems BS tgey allow that

Not sure of the Florida rule but everywhere I raced, you could scratch down to 9 in a triple race, 8 in a daily double race, and 7 in an exacta only race without penalty or an excuse. Guess there is no such thing as a exacta only races anymore but with that race having more than 9 after the scratch, the trainer needed no excuse and there were no fines, days the horse is in jail or penalties unless Florida has some crazy rules. They forfeit the nomination fees, entry fees but not the starting fee associated with the race.
I know it frustrates the fans but in a race to the first week in May, I can't blame the trainer here for trying to gain the best spots for his horse to qualify and be mentally and physically as ready as possible.
I have to think the horse in nominated to a few other spots in the coming weeks to make up for this one.

[Easy-Rider 66]

Not sure of the Florida rule but everywhere I raced, you could scratch down to 9 in a triple race, 8 in a daily double race, and 7 in an exacta only race without penalty or an excuse. Guess there is no such thing as a exacta only races anymore but with that race having more than 9 after the scratch, the trainer needed no excuse and there were no fines, days the horse is in jail or penalties unless Florida has some crazy rules. They forfeit the nomination fees, entry fees but not the starting fee associated with the race.
I know it frustrates the fans but in a race to the first week in May, I can't blame the trainer here for trying to gain the best spots for his horse to qualify and be mentally and physically as ready as possible.
I have to think the horse in nominated to a few other spots in the coming weeks to make up for this one.

Yeah read the horse in question is now running in Tamp Bay Derby.

[JBEX]

hey str

gary contessa is getting out of the game (as a trainer anyway)and kiaran mclaughlin also..the latter going to be taking over as luis saez agent ,according to the paulick report, as his current agent is retiring..contessa seems to be more about the difficulties many must have..workers comp,labor laws,smaller stable (which I guess means less tolerance for bad -mediocre horses)..anyway thought you'd find interesting


https://www.paulickreport.com/news/p...training-game/

[littlekona]

one thing I will say props to posters here two of the big boy 3 year olds thousand words and chance it where discussed here long ago in depth before even looking like triple crown runners

[str]

hey str

gary contessa is getting out of the game (as a trainer anyway)and kiaran mclaughlin also..the latter going to be taking over as luis saez agent ,according to the paulick report, as his current agent is retiring..contessa seems to be more about the difficulties many must have..workers comp,labor laws,smaller stable (which I guess means less tolerance for bad -mediocre horses)..anyway thought you'd find interesting


https://www.paulickreport.com/news/p...training-game/

Kiaran has an ongoing physical disability that typically only gets worse with age. Stress can aggravate it ( It aggravates everything right?) so with his age, it makes sense. I only met him once I think but I wish him all the best.

Don't get me wrong, some agents are a joke but not where he is and what he is going up against. He will have to work very hard. That said, he's been doing that his whole adult life so it won't be anything new. The change will give him renewed energy without the stress that goes with training a large string of horses. Good for him. Sure hope it works out.

Gary will land on his feet. A good guy and someone who cared about the fans, the game, and the integrity that goes with it. The NY workmans comp stuff is a disgrace IMO. It's been going on for decades but only seems to get worse.
No sense in going all through it . People will have their own opinions.
I wish him nothing but the best as well.

I read both trainers short quotes and ugg, they stir up some old feelings that still make my stomach turn. But ... their decisions are solid and are well thought out. They will both be fine but I won't say everything will be fine because it probably won't always be. It's been 20 years for me and at times, I still think about it and what might have been. But when the game changes, and the rules change, and the people change, it really becomes something other than what it actually was when I could not wait for each new day. When I remind myself of that, I, as they will in time, always snapback mentally and know they made the right move. But it takes a few seconds, and those few seconds are no fun.

Thanks JBEX. Might not have found this out for a while. Appreciate the link.

[str]

one thing I will say props to posters here two of the big boy 3 year olds thousand words and chance it where discussed here long ago in depth before even looking like triple crown runners

You guys are on it Littlekona!

[littlekona]

haha chance it ran up the track serves trainer right!!!


funny the owner of winner MLB guy was intervied this M too wins @ 45-1 +

[Easy-Rider 66]

Twenty-seven horse racing industry participants, including trainers Jason Servis and Jorge Navarro, were indicted Monday for illegally doping racehorses and along the way "routinely defrauded and misled government agencies" along with "the betting public."

Citing that racing is a $100 billion global industry, documents from the U.S. District Attorney's Office of the Southern District of New York list 27 names, with Maximum Security conditioner Servis and Navarro, a leading name in south Florida, chief among them.

The District Attorney's Office laid out its charges in four documents, connecting veterinarians who provided blood doping agents to the trainers.

Servis, according to the documents, is alleged to have provided a performance enhancing drug "to virtually all of the racehorses under his control." SGF-1000, which contains "growth factors," is the substance named in the indictment connected to Servis, who allegedly used fake prescriptions to conceal its use. On or around last June 5, investigators found, Servis had a veterinarian falsify records to prevent a positive test for SGF-1000 on Maximum Security, who since then was named champion 3-year-old and on Feb. 29 won the $20 million Saudi Cup.

Navarro, who has conditioned, among others the Dubai Golden Shaheen (G1) winner X Y Jet, "orchestrated a widespread scheme of covertly obtaining and administering various adulterated and misbranded PEDs to the racehorses under his control," according to the indictment. Navarro "personally administered various adulterated and misbranded PEDs to X Y Jet," who died suddenly in January of what the trainer had said was a heart attack.

Release of documents followed reported Federal Bureau of Investigation stings at the Palm Meadows Training Center and Gulfstream Park West in south Florida, where Servis and Navarro stable many of their horses during the winter.

Throughout the years, Servis has vehemently denied cheating, including in a July 2018 interview with Horse Racing Nation.

“People are talking a lot of shit,” Servis said while on a winning streak, “and I’m really not happy about it.”

Kentucky Derby-winning trainer Graham Motion, a staunch advocate for drug-free racing, tweeted after the documents were released that this is "a sad day for racing but a long time coming. A good day for those who try to play by the rules, we will all be better for it."

Documents detailing the charges against Servis and Navarro are available below:

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[Easy-Rider 66]

Sad day for racing STR. If true unreal that these high profile trainers have to cheat. Good to see FBI getting involved. Maybe it will deter others. THis was breaking news from Horse Racing Nation.

[trytrytry]

horse racing bad press and industry situation woes go into 2020 I guess....damnnnnn

[trytrytry]

also hearing some harness type individuals are involved too...

[mrginandtonic]

I’m glad that FBI was involved. Hopefully we can move forward with clean racing from now on. According to the news, Southern California trainers were not involved and yet we have so many horses dying.... I wonder why?? Any logical explanations, sir?

[cutchemist42]

Very glad to hear the Juice man is finally getting what he deserves. It was openly being mocked for so long.

[littlekona]

Everyone who bets knows Servis and Navarro been doing this for a long time....I'd also bet that guys like Saffie Joseph and Diodoro do it to....Until USA regulates like they do in Japan you will always see this