[JBEX]

Typically the 1st book of a new meet comes out 3-4 weeks prior to the start.

The other books usually come out about 2 weeks before they kick in.

ok..thanks

[cutchemist42]

Hey str, I had a question about when a horse comes under a trainer's control?

Does the owner buy the horse first and then bring it to you? Will you have a horse from age 1? Or are you involved in even the purchasing part of it?

[JBEX]

hey str

another of my hypothetical's..if ruffian hadn't met her tragic fate and continued running into her 5yo season (1977)..No injuries,lightly raced and expertly managed by frank whiteley ..you think seattle slew (3yo) would have been able to deal with her middle to latter part of the year when the youngsters start taking on their elders ..that would've been a lot fun huh ?:could you see her running as a 5yo if she was healthy and performing at the top of her game ? could have asked my avatar this 5 years ago

[str]

Hey str, I had a question about when a horse comes under a trainer's control?

Does the owner buy the horse first and then bring it to you? Will you have a horse from age 1? Or are you involved in even the purchasing part of it?

Sorry for the delay.

It can be many different ways so let me try and lay out the scenarios.

Q. Will you have a horse from age 1?

A. Never at the race track.

Every track has a date when babies( 2 year olds) are allowed on the grounds. For most tracks it is around March 1st of the horses 2 year old year.

All horses are broken( taught to have a saddle on and be ridden in the fall of their yearling ( one year old ) year.

All the horses you see sell at the Keenland yearling sale for instance, have never had a saddle on or a rider on. When I would buy there here was my process.

Once I bought the horses, I would send them to a farm, in my case Sagamore Farm in Md.
We would allow them a few weeks to acclimate and get over the trauma of the sales ring and van ride and then they would begin the education of having a saddle on them and then a rider on them. This took roughly 6-8 weeks. Sprinkled in those weeks were plenty of slight to moderate and sometimes very high temperatures . That along with other minor setbacks was part of the reason it took so long. If you go too fast with a baby, they will make you wait every time. You worked at their pace. It's like young kids going to school. They all get sick until their immune system builds up some.

Once that was achieved, they were given a break again for several weeks( each horse is a bit different so that time was whatever each horse needed ). In my case, they would start to train ever so slowly up to a race around March. I never tried to run a baby in the 1st few baby races in May or even June. ( I can count on one hand the babies I ran in June and never ran one in May).
Certain trainers did and that was what they did, but I didn't. Nobody is right or wrong, it just was not my approach.

Q.Does the owner buy the horse first and then bring it to you? Or are you involved in even the purchasing part of it?

A. That could be the case. Maybe they bought it themselves, but most times if an owner is buying at a sale, they want their trainer involved to help in the process. Often times the baby was bred by the owner so they understood the breaking process and we might discuss it along the way but most of it was handled by them.
It was rare when an owner would just call up and say, hey, I just bought a yearling. It did happen though. A few times at least.

Nowadays, it seems like there are more trainers with a ton of horses that stable off the track and have multiple divisions and those trainers can have more of a hands on approach I would assume. But for me, I claimed a lot and I found very competent people that
I trusted to take care of the baby end of things, except for the buying, which gave me the time I needed to monitor the on track claiming game, watch other trainers horses train in the morning as well as my own, watch replays, and run that side of it. I would go to Sagamore every other week or so to watch them progress. No workouts, just galloping. And maybe they walked through open doors of a gate at the farm but that was it. I handled the gate work once they got to the track.

My two year olds would trickle in between April and May typically and never come in alone. With babies, everything is done in sets of 2, 3 ,4 at the same time. They need to learn virtually everything and are easily scared to death especially alone. Being in sets gives the unsure ones a chance to see what the smarter or calmer one does in that split second before they decide if what they are doing is ok or they want to get upset. You do not train a baby by themselves until they have raced at least once or twice. By then, they are acclimated to the process.

If there is a particular horse or trainer you have in mind, I can probably help more as what I explained is how I , and many but not all other trainers worked through this.
Hope this helps.
Great question.

[str]

hey str

another of my hypothetical's..if ruffian hadn't met her tragic fate and continued running into her 5yo season (1977)..No injuries,lightly raced and expertly managed by frank whiteley ..you think seattle slew (3yo) would have been able to deal with her middle to latter part of the year when the youngsters start taking on their elders ..that would've been a lot fun huh ?:could you see her running as a 5yo if she was healthy and performing at the top of her game ? could have asked my avatar this 5 years ago

Wow, Wow, Wow.

JBEX, in all my years there, and I was right in the thick of it then, I never thought about that. What a great scenario that could have been.

But, the ridiculous owners of Slew who forced Billy Turner to run in Calif. in the Swaps shortly after winning the Triple Crown totally screwed up Slews last 6 months. And please don't anyone fall for the owners explanation of this . I know the story VERY well and it's not hearsay . The only reason the owners didn't totally ruin Slew was because he happened to be one of the greatest ever. Great enough to overcome those bonehead owners.

But lets pretend that didn't happen . Who wins?

Man, I have no clue. Two horses that were as fast and determined to fight anybody who dared run with them, (and not many could) as I ever saw.

There are not many horses I ever considered could have beaten Ruffian at her game, but Slew???. I would have to think long and hard about that one.

But if I did not think long and hard, I would say, Ruffian at one turn and Slew at two turns. How about that for diplomacy? Lol.

Certainly 2 of the greatest horses I ever was lucky enough to see up close and in person.

Very cool to think about.

[JBEX]

Wow, Wow, Wow.

JBEX, in all my years there, and I was right in the thick of it then, I never thought about that. What a great scenario that could have been.

But, the ridiculous owners of Slew who forced Billy Turner to run in Calif. in the Swaps shortly after winning the Triple Crown totally screwed up Slews last 6 months. And please don't anyone fall for the owners explanation of this . I know the story VERY well and it's not hearsay . The only reason the owners didn't totally ruin Slew was because he happened to be one of the greatest ever. Great enough to overcome those bonehead owners.

But lets pretend that didn't happen . Who wins?

Man, I have no clue. Two horses that were as fast and determined to fight anybody who dared run with them, (and not many could) as I ever saw.

There are not many horses I ever considered could have beaten Ruffian at her game, but Slew???. I would have to think long and hard about that one.

But if I did not think long and hard, I would say, Ruffian at one turn and Slew at two turns. How about that for diplomacy? Lol.

Certainly 2 of the greatest horses I ever was lucky enough to see up close and in person.

Very cool to think about.

believe I did here about that rift between owner and trainer years after but 1977 was about a year before I really started getting interested in the game.. so if the taylor's were reasonable folks and did what billy turner wanted he was easily ready to take on the best of the older horses of that time.. guess it was the timing of the swaps or that he wouldn't take to the west coast racetrack?

I guess ruffian running as a 5yo even if she was well would be a big question mark.. if she remained unblemished or close to it through her 4yo season that might have been it for her.. unfortunately we never will know.. all those great horses trace back to bold ruler.. seattle slew(great grandson), ruffian (granddaughter) and secretariat (son).. quite a legacy he left behind

[JBEX]

let's not leave out spectacular bid (grandson)..amazing

[str]

believe I did here about that rift between owner and trainer years after but 1977 was about a year before I really started getting interested in the game.. so if the taylor's were reasonable folks and did what billy turner wanted he was easily ready to take on the best of the older horses of that time.. guess it was the timing of the swaps or that he wouldn't take to the west coast racetrack?

I guess ruffian running as a 5yo even if she was well would be a big question mark.. if she remained unblemished or close to it through her 4yo season that might have been it for her.. unfortunately we never will know.. all those great horses trace back to bold ruler.. seattle slew(great grandson), ruffian (granddaughter) and secretariat (son).. quite a legacy he left behind

Q. guess it was the timing of the swaps or that he wouldn't take to the west coast racetrack?

A. It was totally the timing of the Swaps. Sweep the triple crown and run back on the west coast in July.

And shipping to the other coast was a lot tougher in the 70's than it is today.

[str]

let's not leave out spectacular bid (grandson)..amazing

I would never do that.

I was able to watch Bid train every morning.

The other two I thought of was Bid and Secretariat.

Was going to say top 5 when speaking of Ruffian and Slew but didn't want to forget two others. Those 4 came to mind right away.

And yes, Bold Ruler was all that and more in terms of offspring. He was the gold standard.

[JBEX]

and a lot of bold ruler blood will be going forward to future generations.. secretariat is the dam sire of storm cat and a p indy who were probably the two best sires of the 90's and 00's..both sires of sires.. in addition the dam sire of gone west who's sons speightstown and elusive quality were very successful stallions at the 50-100k stud level.. sure there are others by gone west also.. to me being the dam sire of those 3 horses as much an accomplishment as as being an elite sire.. not trying to show off mentioning this stuff ; just find this aspect of the game very interesting

[JBEX]

hey str

just looked at the aqueduct condition book through 11/19..only 1 race that fits him (tbf) and that's on 11/12 in the 7th race ..oc 80k/alw n3xot at 1 mile (for the boys..
didnt forget to check that)..see if he shows up for that and I'll keep you posted

just found out that the inner track at aqueduct is no more. .they're putting an extra turf course over it and winterized the main track..I'll shed no tears over that lol

[str]

and a lot of bold ruler blood will be going forward to future generations.. secretariat is the dam sire of storm cat and a p indy who were probably the two best sires of the 90's and 00's..both sires of sires.. in addition the dam sire of gone west who's sons speightstown and elusive quality were very successful stallions at the 50-100k stud level.. sure there are others by gone west also.. to me being the dam sire of those 3 horses as much an accomplishment as as being an elite sire.. not trying to show off mentioning this stuff ; just find this aspect of the game very interesting

Showing off never crossed my mind JBEX.

Secretariat was one of the greatest broodmare sires I have ever seen.

[str]

hey str

just looked at the aqueduct condition book through 11/19..only 1 race that fits him (tbf) and that's on 11/12 in the 7th race ..oc 80k/alw n3xot at 1 mile (for the boys..
didnt forget to check that)..see if he shows up for that and I'll keep you posted

just found out that the inner track at aqueduct is no more. .they're putting an extra turf course over it and winterized the main track..I'll shed no tears over that lol

Unless he had a problem come up, he should be in there for sure.

Was never much of an inner track fan either.

[Thunderground]

Str, BC week already. The fall meet starts Wednesday, so just a few days to monitor the surface. It could be a big advantage to have a good read on the dirt. Del Mar is not like other tracks. You never quite know what they could come up with next. Horses with a race over the surface had an advantage this summer, so that will probably continue. The turf should be fine, but the dirt is a question mark. Could be a big advantage to have a good read on it, but is two days enough time?

[str]

Str, BC week already. The fall meet starts Wednesday, so just a few days to monitor the surface. It could be a big advantage to have a good read on the dirt. Del Mar is not like other tracks. You never quite know what they could come up with next. Horses with a race over the surface had an advantage this summer, so that will probably continue. The turf should be fine, but the dirt is a question mark. Could be a big advantage to have a good read on it, but is two days enough time?

It can only help to watch the first two days closely.

Usually a race or two the day of will confirm or change any opinion.

But if a horse has shown to really like that track, I would put more weight on that there, than I might somewhere else.

That will not change.

[Thunderground]

Thanks. It's the most inconsistent track I've come across, so I'm probably a little paranoid. Every meet they change something. Love Del Mar (good memories of the photo in my picture), but just about the last place where I'd want to see the BC.

[str]

Thanks. It's the most inconsistent track I've come across, so I'm probably a little paranoid. Every meet they change something. Love Del Mar (good memories of the photo in my picture), but just about the last place where I'd want to see the BC.

Be sure and check under the rail each day to see if the grader blade smoothed it out or if it is a bit roughed up with dirt clods , harrow marks , etc.

That will tell you if and when the track has been graded.

Hope that makes sense.

[Thunderground]

It does. Thanks. My main focus will be on the turf races and somewhat time consuming ticket construction to try to catch some of the tri or superfectas. It will be clear soon enough if the dirt is good to go. The horses shipping in may have a harder time on it. The recent works at SA by the likes of Arrogate and Gun Runner could mean nothing at DMR. Crazy, at least to my mind, that they can't do those workouts at Del Mar instead ...

[JBEX]

hey str

tony dutrow has a horse in the tempted G3 for 2yo fillies at a mile on friday at aqueduct. .4-5 ml and could see a minus pool happening..rooting for your buddy and hopefully on to the demoiselle

[Thunderground]

BC note - Gary Stevens these days is a fade in my book. It's not anything new, because it's been going on all year, but for some reason he's getting so much respect that nobody is mentioning it. He's got nothing extra to get out of a horse in the stretch. He may be hurting with all those operations (knee replacement, etc) he's had. He just lost a race on an odds on favorite, and that horse was beat and finished second, but he still tried nothing extra. Same thing yesterday, when he asked nothing extra of a 5/1 horse that would easily have finished second, but was beaten at the wire by a jock who was all out on a 9/2 horse. Could have some value, because to the public he's a big name jock. Nowhere near the level of big money Mike anymore.

[str]

BC note - Gary Stevens these days is a fade in my book. It's not anything new, because it's been going on all year, but for some reason he's getting so much respect that nobody is mentioning it. He's got nothing extra to get out of a horse in the stretch. He may be hurting with all those operations (knee replacement, etc) he's had. He just lost a race on an odds on favorite, and that horse was beat and finished second, but he still tried nothing extra. Same thing yesterday, when he asked nothing extra of a 5/1 horse that would easily have finished second, but was beaten at the wire by a jock who was all out on a 9/2 horse. Could have some value, because to the public he's a big name jock. Nowhere near the level of big money Mike anymore.

I understand your reaction.

And by no means am I saying you are wrong. I did not see the ride or rides in question.

One thing that I learned early in my career was that older, very experienced and very successful riders can often times look as though they are not doing much of anything on a horse. Especially when a younger aggressive rider pulls up next to them slashing and having their elbows flying all over the place. It looks like one is really trying and the old man isn't.

That is rarely the case but looks count for something. I do understand what you most likely saw . But as many a younger rider who rode against them have said to me, "I might look better and AM stronger, but I am only hoping I am as good as they are today when I am in my prime".

Just food for thought .

However, I do feel your pain.

[str]

hey str

tony dutrow has a horse in the tempted G3 for 2yo fillies at a mile on friday at aqueduct. .4-5 ml and could see a minus pool happening..rooting for your buddy and hopefully on to the demoiselle

What a tough business !!

How in the hell did I survive it !

I will talk to him next week . She will probably come up in the conversation.

Thanks for the heads up.

[JBEX]

What a tough business !!

How in the hell did I survive it !

I will talk to him next week . She will probably come up in the conversation.

Thanks for the heads up.

yeah it'd be interesting to know what went wrong..on paper tons better than the others

[Thunderground]

I understand your reaction.

And by no means am I saying you are wrong. I did not see the ride or rides in question.

One thing that I learned early in my career was that older, very experienced and very successful riders can often times look as though they are not doing much of anything on a horse. Especially when a younger aggressive rider pulls up next to them slashing and having their elbows flying all over the place. It looks like one is really trying and the old man isn't.

That is rarely the case but looks count for something. I do understand what you most likely saw . But as many a younger rider who rode against them have said to me, "I might look better and AM stronger, but I am only hoping I am as good as they are today when I am in my prime".

Just food for thought .

However, I do feel your pain.

I bet on him the day before the BC, and missed out on the exacta because of it. No big deal, of course. I thought I'd give a heads up, because he's a big name rider who may not be at his normal best. He's just waving the whip, and not showing much strength with his arms. The horses were not responding to this gentle coaxing. Then again, maybe I'm being a little too harsh on him. 17% winners for the year.

Update: I don't think I saw Stevens ride today. He's not injured, so maybe there is something to the observation that not all is right.

[JBEX]

hey str

just looked at the aqueduct condition book through 11/19..only 1 race that fits him (tbf) and that's on 11/12 in the 7th race ..oc 80k/alw n3xot at 1 mile (for the boys..
didnt forget to check that)..see if he shows up for that and I'll keep you posted

just found out that the inner track at aqueduct is no more. .they're putting an extra turf course over it and winterized the main track..I'll shed no tears over that lol

just checked the entries and he's not entered..I have a hunch that he's ok and todd's saving him for gulfstream which opens in about 3 weeks..that's where he ran a huge race in his debut to finish 2nd and all this started lol..hopefully he's ok and I'll keep an eye out for him

[JBEX]

ok another one for you str..7th at cd today there was a first time starter who won by 8+ lengths (2yo colt)..he is by tapit (300k sire)and bred by three chimneys farm who is also the owner..however auction info is given on the horse "ftk nov15..600k"..does this mean that they didn't get the minimum they wanted for the horse (600k) so they kept him ?? obviously he was a weanling back then..also when a horse of that value wins his debut by open lengths do you think right away the folks who didn't follow through at the auction are really kicking themselves more than for a typical 100k horse ? guess another way to put it is are the expectations more grandiose for this type of horse vs a more typically priced first out winner ?

[str]

just checked the entries and he's not entered..I have a hunch that he's ok and todd's saving him for gulfstream which opens in about 3 weeks..that's where he ran a huge race in his debut to finish 2nd and all this started lol..hopefully he's ok and I'll keep an eye out for him

I hope he is OK as well.

Thanks for the update.

[str]

I bet on him the day before the BC, and missed out on the exacta because of it. No big deal, of course. I thought I'd give a heads up, because he's a big name rider who may not be at his normal best. He's just waving the whip, and not showing much strength with his arms. The horses were not responding to this gentle coaxing. Then again, maybe I'm being a little too harsh on him. 17% winners for the year.

Update: I don't think I saw Stevens ride today. He's not injured, so maybe there is something to the observation that not all is right.

Unless Stevens is injured now, there is no greater indicator of a rider not riding as well as they have, than not being named on as many horses by trainers that typically would be naming him on.
It is hard to tell someone they can't do it anymore. You just don't come out and say it, unless asked by the rider or agent, you just kind of faze the rider out by scaling back on mounts.
Always a difficult time when that takes place but not usually a difficult decision based on what a trainer observes once you get past the emotion of it.
Still, it's not easy. Heck, nothings easy.

[str]

ok another one for you str..7th at cd today there was a first time starter who won by 8+ lengths (2yo colt)..he is by tapit (300k sire)and bred by three chimneys farm who is also the owner..however auction info is given on the horse "ftk nov15..600k"..does this mean that they didn't get the minimum they wanted for the horse (600k) so they kept him ?? obviously he was a weanling back then..also when a horse of that value wins his debut by open lengths do you think right away the folks who didn't follow through at the auction are really kicking themselves more than for a typical 100k horse ? guess another way to put it is are the expectations more grandiose for this type of horse vs a more typically priced first out winner ?

Q. however auction info is given on the horse "ftk nov15..600k"..does this mean that they didn't get the minimum they wanted for the horse (600k) so they kept him ?

A. FTK means Fasig Tipton Kentucky Sale. That time of year it is a weanling sale. Went there once in mid November and bought a couple.

Damn near froze to death. Man was it cold when the sun went down. Lol.

Q. ..does this mean that they didn't get the minimum they wanted for the horse (600k) so they kept him ?

A. No. If they show the 600k, that was the sales price. If you see a RNA, that means Reserve Not Attained or not sold.

Q. obviously he was a weanling back then..also when a horse of that value wins his debut by open lengths do you think right away the folks who didn't follow through at the auction are really kicking themselves more than for a typical 100k horse ?

A. I guess some are while others are waiting to see if they can do more. It's all a head game with that stuff.

Personally, I never followed what I did not buy. Too me, it was like, once I make a decision, no regrets. Don't look back. Look forward. There were soooo many decisions to make everyday with every horse.
I always had to trust that at the time, I gave it ample thought and made a decision.

And as Tommy Lasorda so eloquently said on the mound to his pitcher who questioned him on making a change during a Yankee series when Jackson and others were on the Yankees, ( probably on youtube or somewhere. I know I have a recording of it),

" I'll make the f'in decisions around here. They might not be the right f'in decisions but I'll f'in make em "!

That was the philosophy I had when I was training and when I heard that recording , it just reassured how I felt. I felt even more convinced of my stance on that after hearing him say that. I was fortunate enough to meet Mr. Lasorda years later and shared that with him and thanked him for it.

Q. guess another way to put it is are the expectations more grandiose for this type of horse vs a more typically priced first out winner ?

A. I am sure they are. I never spent near that much on any one horse, but the amount is all relative.

600K to a billionaire is no different that 60K to someone with 1/10th the amount of money.

Talk to you soon JBEX.

[JBEX]

Q. however auction info is given on the horse "ftk nov15..600k"..does this mean that they didn't get the minimum they wanted for the horse (600k) so they kept him ?

A. FTK means Fasig Tipton Kentucky Sale. That time of year it is a weanling sale. Went there once in mid November and bought a couple.

Damn near froze to death. Man was it cold when the sun went down. Lol.

Q. ..does this mean that they didn't get the minimum they wanted for the horse (600k) so they kept him ?

A. No. If they show the 600k, that was the sales price. If you see a RNA, that means Reserve Not Attained or not sold.

Q. obviously he was a weanling back then..also when a horse of that value wins his debut by open lengths do you think right away the folks who didn't follow through at the auction are really kicking themselves more than for a typical 100k horse ?

A. I guess some are while others are waiting to see if they can do more. It's all a head game with that stuff.

Personally, I never followed what I did not buy. Too me, it was like, once I make a decision, no regrets. Don't look back. Look forward. There were soooo many decisions to make everyday with every horse.
I always had to trust that at the time, I gave it ample thought and made a decision.

And as Tommy Lasorda so eloquently said on the mound to his pitcher who questioned him on making a change during a Yankee series when Jackson and others were on the Yankees, ( probably on youtube or somewhere. I know I have a recording of it),

" I'll make the f'in decisions around here. They might not be the right f'in decisions but I'll f'in make em "!

That was the philosophy I had when I was training and when I heard that recording , it just reassured how I felt. I felt even more convinced of my stance on that after hearing him say that. I was fortunate enough to meet Mr. Lasorda years later and shared that with him and thanked him for it.

Q. guess another way to put it is are the expectations more grandiose for this type of horse vs a more typically priced first out winner ?

A. I am sure they are. I never spent near that much on any one horse, but the amount is all relative.

600K to a billionaire is no different that 60K to someone with 1/10th the amount of money.

Talk to you soon JBEX.

the part that confuses me about this is he is still owned by the breeder yet they list an auction price..can they bid for their own horse taking the chance that they might wind up keeping the horse ?

lasorda story great..the person calling the shots will inevitably be wrong many times but they're his mistakes to make..simple but true

actually have a funny baseball story..i'm a limo driver and about 15 years ago I have to pick up bob gibson at laguardia..he's doing a card show up around where I live which is a half hour north of nyc..
he's staying in nyc though the night before..my father a met fan since the polo grounds (not easy lol)
tells me that tim mccarver (mets broadcaster at the time) used to tell a story that whenever he went out to the mound to talk to gibson he'd tell him ,i'm paraphrasing,the only thing you know about pitching is that it's hard to hit,now get back behind the plate..my father suggested that I ask him if this was true when I drove him..told him probably not but I'll keep it in mind..a little out of my strike zone pun intended..so i go inside to get him (no sign necessary) and I'm thinking about it on my way to nyc..there
wasn't a word spoken in the car the whole trip..a minute away from the hotel decided to give it a go..all I can say is I'm glad I did it when I did..the silence was deafening lol..he was nice enough to sign my 1983 baseball annual though

[str]

the part that confuses me about this is he is still owned by the breeder yet they list an auction price..can they bid for their own horse taking the chance that they might wind up keeping the horse ?

lasorda story great..the person calling the shots will inevitably be wrong many times but they're his mistakes to make..simple but true

actually have a funny baseball story..i'm a limo driver and about 15 years ago I have to pick up bob gibson at laguardia..he's doing a card show up around where I live which is a half hour north of nyc..
he's staying in nyc though the night before..my father a met fan since the polo grounds (not easy lol)
tells me that tim mccarver (mets broadcaster at the time) used to tell a story that whenever he went out to the mound to talk to gibson he'd tell him ,i'm paraphrasing,the only thing you know about pitching is that it's hard to hit,now get back behind the plate..my father suggested that I ask him if this was true when I drove him..told him probably not but I'll keep it in mind..a little out of my strike zone pun intended..so i go inside to get him (no sign necessary) and I'm thinking about it on my way to nyc..there
wasn't a word spoken in the car the whole trip..a minute away from the hotel decided to give it a go..all I can say is I'm glad I did it when I did..the silence was deafening lol..he was nice enough to sign my 1983 baseball annual though

Q. the part that confuses me about this is he is still owned by the breeder yet they list an auction price..can they bid for their own horse taking the chance that they might wind up keeping the horse ?

A. Sure. And it could have been that or they were in partnership and one party wanted to run the horse through the ring. Hard to say for sure but I have seen plenty of that over the years. It's not common, but not terribly rare either.

Great story about Gibson. What a great, great pitcher he was ! Wow.

[JBEX]

ok str ..good to know that can happen as I have observed that many times over the years

I'll give the horse a mention now as he's really bred to be something down the road and obviously off to a good start..the dam won a grade 1 at CD at the same distanceof 7f..dam sire street sense won ky derby and travers..and of course by tapit speaks for itself

principe guilherme

[JBEX]

hey str..

looked at the condition books and there are 2 races in december that have that nw3ot or oc/nw3ot condition (these 2 are the latter) .. there is a 3rd but don't think 6f a good fit.. aqu 12/8 R7 @ 1 mile and GP 12/28 R9 @ 1 1/16..both dirt of course.. want to see this guy run again.. keep you posted.. no pun intended lol

[str]

hey str..

looked at the condition books and there are 2 races in december that have that nw3ot or oc/nw3ot condition (these 2 are the latter) .. there is a 3rd but don't think 6f a good fit.. aqu 12/8 R7 @ 1 mile and GP 12/28 R9 @ 1 1/16..both dirt of course.. want to see this guy run again.. keep you posted.. no pun intended lol

Thanks JBEX.

He should have plenty of posted workouts at either Aqueduct or Gulfstream / Payson Park.

That should tell you where he is and where he might run next.

If no works are posted anywhere, he needed time and won't run for a while.

Hope he's OK.

[RangeFinder]

Str,

Just curious. If you were to look for a horse at an auction that you want to train to make a triple crown run, what bloodlines would you be looking for and what dosage? Another question is if you could breed horses today with any two, what two would it be?

I know those are loaded questions, take your time, lol