Originally Posted by
str
Q. I realized I've asked a lot of questions so if I'm going overboard i apologize lol.
A. Keep them coming. It's my pleasure.
Q. how do you feel you'd do with something like pinhooking or just an advisor at the auctions (maybe you've done the latter on occasion).. seems that would be a good overlap for a long time trainer.. sure there's a lot of hard work that goes along with that also and even someone with a good eye and feel for things can get it wrong often enough.(not including injuries).
A. It is a job that could fit well for former trainers. But like anything , and especially in this game, you better be ready to work your ass off.
The thing that stood out to me when I went and bought at Keenland, Ocala, Timonium, etc.was the inside info and clicks that were obvious. There was a ton of information about these horses that only select people had full access to. I was around long enough to have plenty of that info funneled too me but certainly not as much as others that were more baby oriented and winning with a first time starter oriented.
I was not that guy.
A lot of consignors wanted their horses to go to people that won races early. That helped shine a good light on their operation. It was all a game within a game.
As for me and how well I would do ? As a pinhooker, probably just average. As an advisor, yes I have done that before while I still trained and I would be ok at that and probably get better as time went on. But my strengths were always at the race track itself. Not as much with yearlings . I was not that rapped up in conformation and scope, etc. which is how weanlings and yearlings are dissected. I was more, analysis of inner talent that had not yet been exposed in the race horse that was racing. Or the opposite . Finding a horse that was thought more of than it should be. And understanding a true value of a horse when it was time to raise that horse up in class or stay the same in price and have it claimed away.
I think all this is true because I never worked on a farm or with yearlings. I always worked at the track, with running horses, and learned not only the horses tendencies but the jocks and the other trainers strengths , weaknesses and tendencies.
And as far as tendencies go, there was no trainer that I ever competed against, and that is a lot of trainers, that masked tendencies, which is crucial to having long term success in the claiming game, than King Leatherbury. That alone should have put him in the Hall.
Q. do you know of any trainers who've gotten involved with pinhooking after they've stopped training?
A. Absolutely. Mark Reid and Jeff Kirk were two excellent trainers and good friends (more Mark than Jeff but only because Mark worked right next to me as a groom back in the day) with lots of success and went on to do that. Mark has since left and I think he went back to training. I last saw him at Saratoga when I was up there visiting Tony D. several years ago. Jeff still does this in Ocala. There are plenty more, but those two guys came to mind right away.
Mark is a great guy and Jeff, lol, what a piece of work he is. He too is great to be around.
Q.who would advise big spending buyers on who to purchase at the auctions besides the trainer..
A. The trainer has a relationship with the consignors, pinhookers and advisors. And if they don't and the consignor has a horse that will bring big money, that consignor will seek out the high end trainers that have the high spending owners. The consignor, more than anyone wants Baffert, Pletcher, or a big name to buy THEIR horse. Because once you are in with someone like that, your business will take off.
I could go on and on about this but I do want to point out that just like any business with a ton of money flying around you have your honest people and your dishonest people. And the dishonest ones will pull some unbelievable stuff on unsuspecting owners, especially if the trainer is compensated some way. It can get pretty ugly if you are not careful. Again, just like any money business, a fool and his money ...
It's a serious case of buyer beware.
And an owner better know that their trainer is honest and actually taking a "owners first" approach, which many trainers do, but some do not, or they will be taken advantage of , and that's putting it mildly.
Making sure that everyone understands, the game is great. But... when you show up with cash you better damn sight know what you are doing and more so than that, have trust in the person you are doing it with.