[slayer14]

How can once a great city turn into a terrible place

[Optional]

Failing to look after the weakest slows the whole army down.

[Statman]

Pretty sad state of affairs...

[Weems2k]

They need to do a real life Purge. Starting in San Fran Sicko.

[jts1207]

Liberal paradise

[Optional]

of course the poor are drawn to places that look after them best.

Does not mean SF is wrong. Just that other states not pulling their weight.

[KVB]

They really do have a poop tracker that tracks reports of human waste in public..

The actual link here to Human Wasteland.

[Kermit]

And this is the state that Hillary dominated. She got a million more votes than Obama did in 2012.

[KVB]

The State of Jefferson movement is a growing attempt to split the state and have conservatives distance themselves from the liberal side and highly populous cities like SF.

I don't see it happening, but I think it was Virginia or Carolina that no one said could do it, and they actually pulled it off with the North and South.

Cali not so clean cut north and south anymore, with the exception of water.

It's all about creating that extra congressional seat.

[maggiethebestdog]

of course the poor are drawn to places that look after them best.

Does not mean SF is wrong. Just that other states not pulling their weight.

Lol
It would be impossible for a country to spend more on social services
than we do
I will admit that the lack of good paying jobs is a problem, but when you have people who refuse to work towards anything and want to take advantage of people you will always have San Fran, Seattle etc...
If you aren't mentally ill and physically disabled, you should be working with minimal assistance if needed
Is anyone personally responsible for anything anymore??
How many of you bleeding hearts have taken a homeless drug addict into your home to live and supported them??
None
You just want everyone to think you are more evolved and caring than other people when the truth is you are just ignorant hypocrites

[Optional]

Lol
It would be impossible for a country to spend more on social services
than we do
I will admit that the lack of good paying jobs is a problem, but when you have people who refuse to work towards anything and want to take advantage of people you will always have San Fran, Seattle etc...
If you aren't mentally ill and physically disabled, you should be working with minimal assistance if needed
Is anyone personally responsible for anything anymore??
How many of you bleeding hearts have taken a homeless drug addict into your home to live and supported them??
None
You just want everyone to think you are more evolved and caring than other people when the truth is you are just ignorant hypocrites

I think you mistake my main interest as wanting to help the poor. Whilst that makes it feel good to do, the main motivation is that leaving a whole class of society so far behind the average costs society more in dealing with the associated problems than is needed to prop them up t a level where they arent dragging the rest of society backward.

I do think spending more on assisting mentally ill is about the quickest way to see some effect. Whether they are mentally ill or deserving enough. Just getting them not pooing in the street, stealing and making life in general unpleasant would be a noticeable jump in everyones quality of life.

[VeggieDog]

They would have to clean the place for six months to move up to "dump" status.

[maggiethebestdog]

Lol
It would be impossible for a country to spend more on social services
than we do
I will admit that the lack of good paying jobs is a problem, but when you have people who refuse to work towards anything and want to take advantage of people you will always have San Fran, Seattle etc...
If you aren't mentally ill and physically disabled, you should be working with minimal assistance if needed
Is anyone personally responsible for anything anymore??
How many of you bleeding hearts have taken a homeless drug addict into your home to live and supported them??
None
You just want everyone to think you are more evolved and caring than other people when the truth is you are just ignorant hypocrites

With the exception of a few horrible people, everybody wants to help people
The question is how that is done and just throwing out nonsensical liberal feel good nonsense helps nobody
Obviously just throwing money at it doesn't help without some strategy to it
More mental illness help is desperately needed, we agree on that
The problem is the liberal media has portrayed every homeless person or poor person as mentally ill
Some are, but some are just lazy and make horrible life choices
I say help the working poor
If someone works a minimum wage job they need help
Believe it or not, the help they need is hindered by the fact they work because the income thresholds for getting help are so low that it ACTUALLY BENEFITS THEM MORE TO NOT WORK
ANYONE can get a minimum wage job if not mentally or physically disabled
If all the focus went into helping people who are willing to work and dropping those that don't, not only would people get help but it would force the unwilling to work crowd to sink or swim
If they won't work and have kids, take the kids
Personal responsibility doesn't mean people don't make mistakes, it just means there needs to be an incentive to work
Obviously if you take people's kids kids away, that would take a huge budget to do, but it is still better than the alternative
These are just off the top of my head
I have never seen ONE liberal who has presented ONE viable solution to the problem other than "helping poor people", whatever that means

Are there flaws in any plan, of course
Could you imagine if some of these common sense viable strategies were ever implemented??
Liberals would scream bloody murder
Taking kids away from someone who won't work for them?? Unconstitutional, racist, blah, blah, blah

Lol, I just realized I quoted the wrong post
I meant to quote Optional
I guess maybe I am not as smart as I thought

[Optional]

With the exception of a few horrible people, everybody wants to help people
The question is how that is done and just throwing out nonsensical liberal feel good nonsense helps nobody
Obviously just throwing money at it doesn't help without some strategy to it
More mental illness help is desperately needed, we agree on that
The problem is the liberal media has portrayed every homeless person or poor person as mentally ill
Some are, but some are just lazy and make horrible life choices
I say help the working poor
If someone works a minimum wage job they need help
Believe it or not, the help they need is hindered by the fact they work because the income thresholds for getting help are so low that it ACTUALLY BENEFITS THEM MORE TO NOT WORK
ANYONE can get a minimum wage job if not mentally or physically disabled
If all the focus went into helping people who are willing to work and dropping those that don't, not only would people get help but it would force the unwilling to work crowd to sink or swim
If they won't work and have kids, take the kids
Personal responsibility doesn't mean people don't make mistakes, it just means there needs to be an incentive to work
Obviously if you take people's kids kids away, that would take a huge budget to do, but it is still better than the alternative
These are just off the top of my head
I have never seen ONE liberal who has presented ONE viable solution to the problem other than "helping poor people", whatever that means

Are there flaws in any plan, of course
Could you imagine if some of these common sense viable strategies were ever implemented??
Liberals would scream bloody murder
Taking kids away from someone who won't work for them?? Unconstitutional, racist, blah, blah, blah

Lol, I just realized I quoted the wrong post
I meant to quote Optional
I guess maybe I am not as smart as I thought

It's normal and admirable to expect people to work for themselves. But reality is that some people are lazy, useless or just not smart enough for anyone to employ or trust them.

By ideology not wanting to reward malingerers is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're right that I don't have a complete answer on how to spend the money better, but I strongly believe the main aim should be to raise the quality of life of the lowest in society, not for them, but the rest of society above that level. So we all dont have to deal with streets full of shit and unpleasant/dangerous people.

I think a high enough minimum wage so welfare isn't a good option in comparison is a good strategy to get started.

[maggiethebestdog]

It's normal and admirable to expect people to work for themselves. But reality is that some people are lazy, useless or just not smart enough for anyone to employ or trust them.

By ideology not wanting to reward malingerers is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're right that I don't have a complete answer on how to spend the money better, but I strongly believe the main aim should be to raise the quality of life of the lowest in society, not for them, but the rest of society above that level. So we all dont have to deal with streets full of shit and unpleasant/dangerous people.

I think a high enough minimum wage so welfare isn't a good option in comparison is a good strategy to get started.

Like I said, blather
You can't "lift up" people who don't want to be lifted up
Impossible
So just keep giving then stuff when they won't lift a finger to help themselves and hope they won't make things too unpleasant
Another great liberal strategy

I knew this was pointless
Have fun

[maggiethebestdog]

It's normal and admirable to expect people to work for themselves. But reality is that some people are lazy, useless or just not smart enough for anyone to employ or trust them.

By ideology not wanting to reward malingerers is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

You're right that I don't have a complete answer on how to spend the money better, but I strongly believe the main aim should be to raise the quality of life of the lowest in society, not for them, but the rest of society above that level. So we all dont have to deal with streets full of shit and unpleasant/dangerous people.

I think a high enough minimum wage so welfare isn't a good option in comparison is a good strategy to get started.

Sorry
One last thing ludicrous thing
Just raise the minimum wage to a point where no help is needed
Unreal
Can you imagine the amount of jobs that would be eliminated if that happened or high prices would have to go up or how many businesses would fold??
Now that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be raised to a reasonable amount but that is happening across the country by most states
I'm trying to imagine the level of disconnect and ignorance to suggest that the way to end welfare is to raise the minimum wage that high not realizing that it would end our economy
Hard to imagine, but with liberals, anything is possible
Look what happened in Seattle just raising it to 15 with no increments
Disaster for everyone
Once again, employers underpay workers, but to suggest a minimum wage that high is insane
Liberal logic

[Optional]

Sorry
One last thing ludicrous thing
Just raise the minimum wage to a point where no help is needed
Unreal
Can you imagine the amount of jobs that would be eliminated if that happened or high prices would have to go up or how many businesses would fold??
Now that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be raised to a reasonable amount but that is happening across the country by most states
I'm trying to imagine the level of disconnect and ignorance to suggest that the way to end welfare is to raise the minimum wage that high not realizing that it would end our economy
Hard to imagine, but with liberals, anything is possible

I sure can imagine how it works.

I live in an $18/hr minimum wage economy.

Everything is expensive compared to you. And it's just fine. As it's not as simplistic as you want to try and make it. We can afford it. We are a rich country. America could afford it too.

Unemployment is low, the economy is stronger than most western countries, foreign companies fall over themselves to come here and pay people above minimum wage (a small minority are actually paid the minimum) and set up business and in general Australians can go anywhere and think it's cheap.

I don't even have to imagine it. I live it.

All you have is chicken little cries of the sky will fall if we make business pay EVERYONE at least a living wage if they want to profit from them.

American companies all manage to do it here!

[Optional]

How many of you bleeding hearts have taken a homeless drug addict into your home to live and supported them??

I don't want to take them in or deal with them at all.

That's why I want my tax dollars spent dealing with them so I never get to the point of having to step over poo on the streets in our richest city.

You can't "lift up" people who don't want to be lifted up

I agree. So why do you keep wanting to try and make them do what you say they can't??

I'm trying to imagine the level of disconnect and ignorance to suggest that the way to end welfare is to raise the minimum wage

I don't want to end welfare. Like I said, some people are useless and wont change. Accept it and spend your tax money to deal with them in some better way than putting up with sidewalks as toilets.



You should read my words and attack them rather than continuing to blather on about what you imagine I must be thinking.

[maggiethebestdog]

I sure can imagine how it works.

I live in an $18/hr minimum wage economy.

Everything is expensive compared to you. And it's just fine. As it's not as simplistic as you want to try and make it. We can afford it. We are a rich country. America could afford it too.

Unemployment is low, the economy is stronger than most western countries, foreign companies fall over themselves to come here and pay people above minimum wage (a small minority are actually paid the minimum) and set up business and in general Australians can go anywhere and think it's cheap.

I don't even have to imagine it. I live it.

All you have is chicken little cries of the sky will fall if we make business pay EVERYONE at least a living wage if they want to profit from them.

American companies all manage to do it here!

Wow
I believe you live in Australia
Your poverty rate is equal with ours
Our GDP is 20 F'in times larger than yours
Our wealth per capita is higher than yours
Our population dwarfs you yet all these things are facts
Our goods and services are cheaper than yours

Stop embarrassing yourself

[maggiethebestdog]

Oh, let's not forget that Australia has a huge wealth gap
Not as big as ours, we take the cake on that, but Australia is not that far behind
Also, poverty is increasing yearly

Doesn't make it a terrible place by any means, but trying to make it sound like it is somehow a better system is laughable

[Optional]

Oh-kay.

America is bigger and better. That's a given, stats not needed.

Not seeing your argument against how the benefits of having a minimum wage more in line with other rich nations would not make it even better though.

You said it sends businesses broke and creates unemployment. Why would that be the case there but not other places with a high minimum wage and strong welfare systems?

[maggiethebestdog]

Oh-kay.

America is bigger and better. That's a given, stats not needed.

Not seeing your argument against how the benefits of having a minimum wage more in line with other rich nations would not make it even better though.

You said it sends businesses broke and creates unemployment. Why would that be the case there but not other places with a high minimum wage and strong welfare systems?

I never said bigger and better
The reason is bigger means more people and more complexities
Things that work for a small amount of people might not work for a much larger group of people

I'm sure both systems have pros and cons but you are trying to claim your system is somehow better when that is just not factually supported by fact, in fact, they contradict you

People who don't know the facts are usually the quickest to give their opinion on how to fix something

I am sure Australia is a nice place but the economic statistics don't show any advantages to that system

Let's face it, America is the greediest place on earth, no argument
Profit motive is the greatest system on earth but there has to be limits and when there isn't you have what we have

It is not the system of profit motive that is the problem
We wouldn't have most if what we take for granted without it, including medicine
It is the corruption of our govt by wealth and power that leads to abuse, which include underpaying workers and forgetting about the common good

In respects to America I made common sense suggestions as how to combat that given the reality of the situation
You have offered non factual, pie in the sky feel good nonsense with no specifics and those theories really don't even work in your country

[GT21Megatron]

This is why we have nice things

[turbobets]

of course the poor are drawn to places that look after them best.

Does not mean SF is wrong. Just that other states not pulling their weight.

They don't look after them they just tolerate them. At least for now.

[turbobets]

Opti does the minimum wage apply to minors? I employed three high school kids part time a few years ago. They made between $8 and $10 an hour. I don't think I could afford to stay open if I had to pay $18 unless I raised prices.