1. #36
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxx View Post
    The odds disparity in the "My Bet" and "My Account" section definitely should raise some eye brows.

    Good luck yellowstorm in your quest for a resolution.
    Thanks Foxx for your reply. Of course there is something strange and suspicious with the odds disparity at "my bet" and "my account" section. Please give some time to take a look what BIA replied to me when I raised this issue...

    Kindly take into consideration that this is all the information that we have received from the related side, who have given a final confirmation that there is no possibility for any of the funds to be retrieved.

    Orbit confirmed that the betting pattern was changed, but bets were in line, so no fund passing was displayed. Unfortunately, they could not retrieve any funds and sent us a final confirmation today.


    Funny ha? just trying to avoid responsibilities...they rely on my agreement to their terms and conditions, but this doesn't mean that I have to tolerate my account being robbed!

  2. #37
    Optional
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    "Betfair's agent OrbitX and Fake Bets Scam" should be the key words you use across industry forums to get PR working for you.

    Keep the focus on the main 4 points; Betfair, OrbitX, Fake Bets and Scam. (dont try to explain BIA part. Does not matter and muddies the water)

    Hammer the point that a Fake Bet was entered on your account. That's the key issue they need to explain or fix.

    And embed your images so they can be seen and dont need a click.





  3. #38
    Optional
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    Also work through this page. There are a bunch of little hard to see links in the text to watch out for.

    https://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Dispute.Resolution/



    You will also find links to Ecogra and IBAS on this page https://support.betfair.com/app/answ...ints-procedure They may well brush you off once they do realize it's a third party relationship, but submit your complaint saying fake bets placed in my Betfair account and give them the bet ID number only and don't explain much else apart from Betfair support refused to look into it for you. As the point of your complaint, ask them to encourage Betfair to at least address the problem and check it properly. Keep the request simple and easy for the ADR agent to just do immediately before having to reply to you. Keep the number of words you use as few as possible and laser focused on what you want out of them. Hopefully the ADR agent asks Betfair for more info and it gets in front of a higher level manager. That is all you really want from submitting a dispute with those agencies.


    You will get someone in there who will care enough to want to know why you think this has happened eventually I think.

  4. #39
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Also work through this page. There are a bunch of little hard to see links in the text to watch out for.

    https://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Dispute.Resolution/



    You will also find links to Ecogra and IBAS on this page https://support.betfair.com/app/answ...ints-procedure They may well brush you off once they do realize it's a third party relationship, but submit your complaint saying fake bets placed in my Betfair account and give them the bet ID number only and don't explain much else apart from Betfair support refused to look into it for you. As the point of your complaint, ask them to encourage Betfair to at least address the problem and check it properly. Keep the request simple and easy for the ADR agent to just do immediately before having to reply to you. Keep the number of words you use as few as possible and laser focused on what you want out of them. Hopefully the ADR agent asks Betfair for more info and it gets in front of a higher level manager. That is all you really want from submitting a dispute with those agencies.


    You will get someone in there who will care enough to want to know why you think this has happened eventually I think.
    Yes, I have already noted Ecogra as one of my next moves, because IBAS , refers only to UK residents and gambling operators.
    I really thank you for all your replies, your advice is more than important and gives me hope that somehow , somewhere, somebody will deal properly with my issue. Until now, Orbit (via BIA), Pollytrading(operators of BIA) and Betfair avoided to assist me, providing excuses and avoiding to take responsibility of this scam. I will come up, if I have any news.

  5. #40
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowstorm21 View Post

    Yes, I have already noted Ecogra as one of my next moves, because IBAS , refers only to UK residents and gambling operators.
    I really thank you for all your replies, your advice is more than important and gives me hope that somehow , somewhere, somebody will deal properly with my issue. Until now, Orbit (via BIA), Pollytrading(operators of BIA) and Betfair avoided to assist me, providing excuses and avoiding to take responsibility of this scam. I will come up, if I have any news.
    IBAS will actually deal with anyone from anywhere now.

    I would try submitting to their system as well if you can get through the process without an account number.

    We just want someone to get your issue in front of a mid level manager in Betfair.

  6. #41
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    IBAS will actually deal with anyone from anywhere now.

    I would try submitting to their system as well if you can get through the process without an account number.

    We just want someone to get your issue in front of a mid level manager in Betfair.
    My claim was successfully submitted to IBAS, without an account number, so I am waiting for their reply. I will inform you as soon as I have news.
    Points Awarded:

    Optional gave yellowstorm21 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.


  7. #42
    yellowstorm21
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    this is what they answered from IBAS

    Thank you for your October 6 submission.

    Unfortunately we are now unable to help on this occasion. IBAS is no longer providing ADR services to Betfair’s customers outside of the United Kingdom.

    You should instead now contact eCOGRA, who have taken on this role, please see https://www.ecogra.org/srs/dispute.php

    Given the circumstances you cite, in my view this fraud may be more a matter your local police authorities rather than Betfair or ADR.

    However, you may also visit the Betfair website and search for the “Complaints Procedure” (or “Terms and Conditions”) for information that confirms the position and the full procedure.

    If you encounter further difficulty, an alternative is to try the regulator for your area, the Malta Gaming Authority (info.mga@mga.org.mt)

    I have put your submission below in case it is helpful to you later.

    Kind regards

    so my next move will be Ecogra.

  8. #43
    Foxx
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowstorm21 View Post
    Given the circumstances you cite, in my view this fraud may be more a matter your local police authorities rather than Betfair or ADR.

  9. #44
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by yellowstorm21 View Post
    this is what they answered from IBAS

    Thank you for your October 6 submission.

    Unfortunately we are now unable to help on this occasion. IBAS is no longer providing ADR services to Betfair’s customers outside of the United Kingdom.

    You should instead now contact eCOGRA, who have taken on this role, please see https://www.ecogra.org/srs/dispute.php

    Given the circumstances you cite, in my view this fraud may be more a matter your local police authorities rather than Betfair or ADR.

    However, you may also visit the Betfair website and search for the “Complaints Procedure” (or “Terms and Conditions”) for information that confirms the position and the full procedure.

    If you encounter further difficulty, an alternative is to try the regulator for your area, the Malta Gaming Authority (info.mga@mga.org.mt)

    I have put your submission below in case it is helpful to you later.

    Kind regards

    so my next move will be Ecogra.
    It sounds like that person at least cared enough to think about it properly.

    If it was me, I would reply and thank them and say you will do as they advise and also say something like "I think if a responsible Betfair manager could just see this they would be able to determine if there was obvious wrong doing by their agent. If you can even informally pass it on to someone in the right position I would be grateful".

  10. #45
    yellowstorm21
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    Thanks again, I will do that.

  11. #46
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foxx View Post
    I am trying to imagine myself going to my local police authorities to testify for a betting fraud...instead of forwarding my issue to a Betfair agent like "Opti" says, they trying to avoid responsibilities by sending me to the cops.

  12. #47
    ouzoun
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    It is no surprise that IBAS is not taking a step for a player. Most of their decisions are for the bookies. It is a surprise they made a step forward to suggest eCOGRA. Frankly I have never heard of them before as an ADR and it would be nice for you if you could reply back and inform us what they are saying/doing.
    Going to the police makes no sense if you come from a country where gambling/exchanges/Betfair/etc are illegal. Imagine going to a Bangladeshi police station telling them you have complaints from Betfair services! In your shoes I would speak to Arbusers forum as well. These are very knowledgable people and they have helped dozens of legitimate players in the past.
    In your case I would not be 100% sure there is nothing done by BIA. Of course you should not focus on them as Opti said, but in the back of your head you should keep the idea they are related to the problem some how.

  13. #48
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouzoun View Post
    It is no surprise that IBAS is not taking a step for a player. Most of their decisions are for the bookies. It is a surprise they made a step forward to suggest eCOGRA. Frankly I have never heard of them before as an ADR and it would be nice for you if you could reply back and inform us what they are saying/doing.
    Going to the police makes no sense if you come from a country where gambling/exchanges/Betfair/etc are illegal. Imagine going to a Bangladeshi police station telling them you have complaints from Betfair services! In your shoes I would speak to Arbusers forum as well. These are very knowledgable people and they have helped dozens of legitimate players in the past.
    In your case I would not be 100% sure there is nothing done by BIA. Of course you should not focus on them as Opti said, but in the back of your head you should keep the idea they are related to the problem some how.
    thank you for your reply Ouzoun. Of course you are right, I cannot go to my local police authorities because exchanges are illegal in my country.
    I have also contacted with Arbusers, I know they have helped a lot of people, but they rejected my post on their forum because my account which I created at BIA was not referred by arbusers, so as they said "We can't assist you if this is the case. We reserve our moral capital and our time for members who support the forum". In the communication I had with arbusers via Skype they seemed to be aware of such type of scams, but also they seemed unwilling to believe that there is something wrong with BIA, if you also read what they concluded of my case
    "In your shoes I would try to see what went wrong from your side...I doubt BIA, Orbit or Betfair did anything shady, so most probably someone has your credentials...If that someone is a pro, he could arb everything out, but if he is not, he simply gambled things."

    Nobody has stolen my credentials, I take all the necessary precautions, 20 years I use internet for gambling and banking transactions, never was hacked before. I understand that they cooperate with bet agents like BIA and they do not wish to expose them, I totally respect that. However, I believe that they should let me open a thread at their forum...

  14. #49
    ouzoun
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    You simply can't login to any account with out credentials. Like it or not, someone had your credentials. What I am saying here is that out of these 3, Betfair, Orbit, BIA, I believe BIA is the weaker part if we exclude any external factor. But how can you be 100% sure no external factors hasn't access to your credentials. Any virtual machine downloaded to your computer?
    I m sure Betfair and Orbit could see what IPs are used for accessing your account. What makes you believe they don't want to talk about it?
    Also, the difference between 2 and 132.5 is really big and it smells fund passing from miles away. How do they exclude fund passing?
    Last edited by ouzoun; 10-12-22 at 01:08 PM.

  15. #50
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ouzoun View Post
    You simply can't login to any account with out credentials. Like it or not, someone had your credentials. What I am saying here is that out of these 3, Betfair, Orbit, BIA, I believe BIA is the weaker part if we exclude any external factor. But how can you be 100% sure no external factors hasn't access to your credentials. Any virtual machine downloaded to your computer?
    I m sure Betfair and Orbit could see what IPs are used for accessing your account. What makes you believe they don't want to talk about it?
    Also, the difference between 2 and 132.5 is really big and it smells fund passing from miles away. How do they exclude fund passing?
    My computer was checked by a specialist that I trust and he assured me that there is no way someone hacked any of my accounts.. OK, I cannot be 100% sure , but on the other hand, as you can see, this disparity in odds is something I cannot understand and accept. it makes me very suspicious and disappointed. please take a look what was BIA' s final answer to that matter:

    Kindly take into consideration that this is all the information that we have received from the related side, who have given a final confirmation that there is no possibility for any of the funds to be retrieved.

    Orbit confirmed that the betting pattern was changed, but bets were in line, so no fund passing was displayed. Unfortunately, they could not retrieve any funds and sent us a final confirmation today.

    Once again, sorry for the inconvenience, and thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

    Furthermore, it has been more than 3 weeks that I am waiting Orbit-BIA to give me a detailed list of the IPs that logged in to my account and especially from which IP this bet was put.
    I will not give up, but I would need some help and guidance from this community about how could I convince Betfair to deal with my issue.
    Thanks again for your reply!

  16. #51
    yellowstorm21
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    Here is eCOGRA's reply to my complaint

    Unfortunately, we cannot assist you with this matter as Orbitxch is not an eCOGRA Approved Site. You may wish to contact the jurisdiction where the site is licensed (this information should be available on the site) or one of the Watchdog sites like Casinomeister (www.casinomeister.com).
    Kind regards,

    It is obvious and the same time annoying how all sides try to leave Betfair out of any discussion, although, as most of you guys in the forum mentioned, they are the only side which can really help in this...I am thinking of starting again the process of complaints via BIA...what else can I do...I would need some help...thanks again

  17. #52
    Optional
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    That's a frustrating answer.

    Again I would try that personal appeal, seeing if you can just get eCogra to put the Bet ID# in front of the right eyes at Betfair without actually starting a dispute matter.

  18. #53
    yellowstorm21
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    I emailed them again...but as you can see they chose the easiest way, they are not willing to get involved, as long as I do not have an account at Betfair...

  19. #54
    yellowstorm21
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    Let me share with you the recent email I received from BIA, concerning my request to have a complete list of the IPs used to log in to my account on the 24th of September , when the fake scam bet was put on my Orbit account. I immediately contacted with BIA a couple of hours after the fake bet was settled, asking for assistance and information. They assured me that they would make a deep investigation of my issue with their relevant department at Orbit and would provide me with detailed report as soon as possible. But they never emailed me back, so on the 28th of September I made again a request to have the list of the IPs and also to check the disparity of odds on that fake bet. After 3 weeks, on the 14th of October, they sent me the following e mail:

    Thank you for your patience.


    "Kindly note that upon requesting the IPs from Orbit Exchange, we were informed that they can only provide us with only the last 20 IP addresses that your account was accessed and we will attach them below. We requested once again a more detailed list on the specific date 24th of September, and they informed us that it will be very hard to get the requested info, but we are pressuring and requesting the details again, so we will keep you updated once we have received the specific date login IPs.

    Last 20 IPs: ..."

    of course the 20IPs are my home IP!!! It is obvious that they were not willing to help from the first moment I reported the incident. They earned precious time by doing nothing to check the IPs on that day or to void the bet immediately...and after 3 weeks time they are sending me this message. It is also a shame for BIA who never forced them to do their job correctly and in a logical time frame... Really I feel scammed in a "professional" way and I have no idea how should I go on...

  20. #55
    Foxx
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    Sucks you're getting the run around. Somehow, I doubt the 20 ip claim. I'd bet they could pull up every login and bet placement ip since the account was created.

  21. #56
    yellowstorm21
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    I wonder how I will be able to find out who operates Orbit Exchange? Who is the approved ADR for Orbit Exchange?

  22. #57
    Optional
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    They do not offer a proper dispute resolution process. But this is their license issuer email certria@gaminglicences.com

    Another reason why Betfair should be obliged to assist users with problems. This should fall squarely on Betfair's shoulders.

  23. #58
    infotimbo
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    Last edited by infotimbo; 10-19-22 at 11:20 AM.

  24. #59
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by infotimbo View Post
    thanks!

  25. #60
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    They do not offer a proper dispute resolution process. But this is their license issuer email certria@gaminglicences.com

    Another reason why Betfair should be obliged to assist users with problems. This should fall squarely on Betfair's shoulders.
    thank you!

  26. #61
    yellowstorm21
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    there is another update to my case. two days ago finally (after a month's "hide and seek") I got the following answer from Orbit (info@orbitexch.com)


    Please do note that we don't have direct access to any customer's account, due to our business model that includes only working via agents. You should get in touch with your agent to report this case, and they will get in touch with Betfair's fraud department to do any checking's needed in your account.

    Ι forwarded this message to BIA and asked for explanation. They haven't answered yet. I also contacted with Betfair online support asked to speak with someone from their fraud department, as Orbit mentioned. please read my dialogue with Betfair

    Betfair: How are we connected to this please as we are Betfair, and have no influence or control over what happens at Orbit?
    16:29, Oct 24
    Me : so why Orbit mentioned your fraud department?

    16:29, Oct 24
    Me : I do not claim that you are connected

    16:30, Oct 24
    Me : I am just trying to find somebody to help me , to investigate that fake scam bet

    16:34, Oct 24
    Betfair: I am completely confused as to why Orbit referred you to us. Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.

    In my opinion it is obvious that are involved parties (Betfair, Orbit, BIA) are trying to avoid responsibility. I do not know how I could put more pressure on them to begin dealing with my case properly and fairly, by giving answers with facts.

  27. #62
    Alfie White
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    Responsibility lies with BIA and OX, they need to provide you with IP as they have it almost 100%. As I said in the beginning, BF will not move an inch to assist you in any shape or form, this has nothing to do with them - you are not their client.

    OX (and subsequently BIA) have data on the IPs 100%, but they are covering each other up and shifting blame. If I were you, I would file a GDPR request from BIA where I would request all the data on my placed bets across all of their offers, then they have to provide you with the data and if they don't you can potentially file a serious GDPR complaint and f them up significantly.

  28. #63
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfie White View Post
    Responsibility lies with BIA and OX, they need to provide you with IP as they have it almost 100%. As I said in the beginning, BF will not move an inch to assist you in any shape or form, this has nothing to do with them - you are not their client.
    Completely incorrect.

    Do not listen to this wrong and bad advice OP.

    Betfair is your only chance to get this fixed. And they will help. They have helped multiple times before when Orbit pull this excuse.


    Your answer to the agent saying what is their part is "Betfair operate the market and have access to all the data and authorized Orbit to act as their agent".

    Next step is to find a lawyer with industry experience to assess your case. Initial assessment for viability should be free.

  29. #64
    Alfie White
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    Betfair: How are we connected to this please as we are Betfair, and have no influence or control over what happens at Orbit?

    Betfair: I am completely confused as to why Orbit referred you to us. Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.

    Opti, they won't do anything, as OP doesn't have contractual relationship with Betfair and thus they are not obliged to do anything - not to mention that if OP involves a lawyer, they will NOPE THE F OUT of the situation immediately and will stop responding completely.

  30. #65
    Optional
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    You are wrong Alfie.

  31. #66
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfie White View Post
    Responsibility lies with BIA and OX, they need to provide you with IP as they have it almost 100%. As I said in the beginning, BF will not move an inch to assist you in any shape or form, this has nothing to do with them - you are not their client.

    OX (and subsequently BIA) have data on the IPs 100%, but they are covering each other up and shifting blame. If I were you, I would file a GDPR request from BIA where I would request all the data on my placed bets across all of their offers, then they have to provide you with the data and if they don't you can potentially file a serious GDPR complaint and f them up significantly.
    BIA still hasn't sent me the IP list they promised to send. So , how can I file a GPDR request from BIA? I haven't done it before. And thanks again for your reply.

  32. #67
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Completely incorrect.

    Do not listen to this wrong and bad advice OP.

    Betfair is your only chance to get this fixed. And they will help. They have helped multiple times before when Orbit pull this excuse.


    Your answer to the agent saying what is their part is "Betfair operate the market and have access to all the data and authorized Orbit to act as their agent".

    Next step is to find a lawyer with industry experience to assess your case. Initial assessment for viability should be free.
    Thanks Opti. I will continue "disturbing" Betfair.

  33. #68
    Craig22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alfie White View Post
    Betfair: How are we connected to this please as we are Betfair, and have no influence or control over what happens at Orbit?

    Betfair: I am completely confused as to why Orbit referred you to us. Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.

    Opti, they won't do anything, as OP doesn't have contractual relationship with Betfair and thus they are not obliged to do anything - not to mention that if OP involves a lawyer, they will NOPE THE F OUT of the situation immediately and will stop responding completely.
    I'm going to offer my legal opinion here because this is some poor advice. There is a contractual agreement between Betfair and OP, which is implied. Orbit is simply an agent of Betfair, whereas Betfair has the final say in decisions. Orbit cannot force Betfair to release his funds from their account. He has to go straight to them/their regulator to get any kind of traction on this. Also, Betfair knows that Orbit has thousands of customers betting through Orbit's account on Betfair.
    Points Awarded:

    Alfie White gave Craig22 2 Betpoint(s) for this post.


  34. #69
    yellowstorm21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig22 View Post
    I'm going to offer my legal opinion here because this is some poor advice. There is a contractual agreement between Betfair and OP, which is implied. Orbit is simply an agent of Betfair, whereas Betfair has the final say in decisions. Orbit cannot force Betfair to release his funds from their account. He has to go straight to them/their regulator to get any kind of traction on this. Also, Betfair knows that Orbit has thousands of customers betting through Orbit's account on Betfair.
    Thank you for your post. I agree with you, about Betfair's involvement . As "Opti" suggested previously in his posts I have contacted with Betfair's live support 5 times so far, but all my requests were rejected.
    Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.
    This is what I have been told so far by Betfair. Their regulators will not accept my complaint because I am not a registered customer at Betfair. Could you propose some kind of legal action against them?
    Thanks again!!

  35. #70
    Alfie White
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    Quote Originally Posted by Craig22 View Post
    I'm going to offer my legal opinion here because this is some poor advice. There is a contractual agreement between Betfair and OP, which is implied. Orbit is simply an agent of Betfair, whereas Betfair has the final say in decisions. Orbit cannot force Betfair to release his funds from their account. He has to go straight to them/their regulator to get any kind of traction on this. Also, Betfair knows that Orbit has thousands of customers betting through Orbit's account on Betfair.
    Quote Originally Posted by yellowstorm21 View Post
    Your account is registered with Orbit and as such should be dealt with directly. There is nothing we can do about this as already reported. Please contact Orbit and follow this matter up with them.
    This is what I have been told so far by Betfair. Their regulators will not accept my complaint because I am not a registered customer at Betfair. Could you propose some kind of legal action against them?
    Thanks again!!
    Nice "leGaL oPIniOn" mate, same as if jjgold wrote it, kudos. Maybe he should go to the Palace as well, ask Charly to help him out, since bf is in London amrite?

    BIA has been doing dodgy shiet in the past, nothing new from them. You need to keep pushing them for this case and post on all forums about it - public pressure is only thing that can force them to dig deeper and see what happened. From what I've read, they still haven't supplied the IPs, you can guess why.

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