[jsmithj88]

logic and common sense are not required when posting in this forum

[jtoler]

Can you imagine MJ going down in a series let alone an NBA Finals without going down with a huge fight, Bron has gone down weakly numerous times, thats about my only gripe with him. MJ would do whatever it took. MJ scored 50 or more in 8 playoff games, even had back to back 50 and 55 pt playoff games, 63 once, which I was watching live as a young boy against the Celtics, the game before that, 49. If Bron had a 50 point playoff game youd hear about it for weeks or months. MJ has averaged 41 ppg in an NBA Finals before, also has had 20 straight playoff games where he averaged 35 or more. With all that said I dont like comparing the two, but when someone does I'll go along for the ride.

[olamide]

I really don't like this Jordan Lebron argument. Lebron is a very good player which anyone would love to have in his team. I don't hate the guy as he is really good. IMO, he isn't Jordan. Jordan never allowed his team to be beaten like that in a finals. The guy is so damn tough and read the opponents game well. He coaches/Bullshit the team sometimes on the court and he was a fighter on the court. Kobe has this same traits. Lebron cares too much about not being on the bad side of his team mates.
You want someone to lead your team to multiple championship btw Jordan and Lebron, are you saying you would pick Lebron over Jordan?

[jsmithj88]

Can you imagine MJ going down in a series let alone an NBA Finals without going down with a huge fight, Bron has gone down weakly numerous times, thats about my only gripe with him. MJ would do whatever it took. MJ scored 50 or more in 8 playoff games, even had back to back 50 and 55 pt playoff games, 63 once, which I was watching live as a young boy against the Celtics, the game before that, 49. If Bron had a 50 point playoff game youd hear about it for weeks or months. MJ has averaged 41 ppg in an NBA Finals before, also has had 20 straight playoff games where he averaged 35 or more. With all that said I dont like comparing the two, but when someone does I'll go along for the ride.

Dude if Jordan was still around he would be marketed the same exact way as Lebron. So what u are saying is the heat lost because Lebron didn't score enough points? They lost cuz the spurs shot over 50% for the entire finals. The defense is what got them blown out every game. I thought Lebron had 2 superstar teammates. So why is it 1 superstar that gets all the blame when they lose?

[jtoler]

Dude if Jordan was still around he would be marketed the same exact way as Lebron. So what u are saying is the heat lost because Lebron didn't score enough points? They lost cuz the spurs shot over 50% for the entire finals. The defense is what got them blown out every game. I thought Lebron had 2 superstar teammates. So why is it 1 superstar that gets all the blame when they lose?

Its not about what the Spurs were doing, its about LeBron's reaction to it, over and over he's shown when things arnt going his way he doesnt respond like you'd expect a guy spoken that highly of. Every time theyve lost you ask yourself where was he in the 4th quarter, he doesnt react well many times when the going gets tough. Spurs shot 50% which means the rest of the Spurs seemed to drag Kawhi Leonard down whom James was mostly guarding, Kawhi managed to shoot an eye popping 61% and 58% from 3. I dont blame LeBron solely for losing the Finals, Wade's nowhere near his prime and Bosh isnt enough, neither were the rest of the Heat this series. Thats what the post was about, the numbers just to drool over.

[eidolon]

Jordan's playoff record without Pippen: 1-9

[Big Bear]

Michael Jordan is one of the biggest douche bags to ever to be associated with pro sports.

i'll take Lebron any day be he is atleast a cool guy.

1 on 1 MJ in his prime would get bulldozed by Lebron as Lebron posterized him.

[jtoler]

Jordan's playoff record without Pippen: 1-9

And went down fighting and scraping in every last one of them.

[No coincidences]

Physically and athletically speaking, LeBron is probably the greatest overall basketball player to ever walk the face of the earth.

That doesn't mean he has the "it" factor, and it also doesn't mean that losing bothers him like it did MJ or Magic or Bird or Kobe. He's always missed that same passion and intensity. That's why you see him fading away so often when everything is on the line. Those moments show a glimpse of a man's true passion and priority for being an elite champion.

LeBron just doesn't have it. Nothing wrong with that -- 99.9% of NBA players don't. Just don't pretend he's on the same level as the game's very best when it comes to winning, though.

[bobby heenan]

Michael Jordan is one of the biggest douche bags to ever to be associated with pro sports.

i'll take Lebron any day be he is atleast a cool guy.

1 on 1 MJ in his prime would get bulldozed by Lebron as Lebron posterized him.

jordan is definitley a d-bag....but hell.....the guy refused to lose.....someone else wrote this....but i think its a pretty accurate summary of lebron and the difference between him and others

"So this press conference was before tonight’s demolition job. Anybody who watched it knew Bron Bron had already thrown in the towel and it’s everything that is wrong with him as a human. Listen is he a great player? Yes. Does he have an ounce of competitive spirit, pride or will to win? Not even close. I mean could you ever picture Bird, Jordan or Magic being asked why they are in such a jovial mood while being down 3-1 in the NBA finals? And how about his answer? ”It’s just basketball” Yeah it’s just basketball. Just the NBA Finals. Ho hum. No biggie. Just how legacies are built. .Not exactly like when Larry called everybody sissies in 84 and fired his keys across the tunnel walking out. Hell Bird basically forced Kevin McHale to stab Kurt Rambis in the heart. See that’s the difference. That’s why the Heat rolled over like dead dogs tonight. They know their leader thinks “it’s just basketball”. It’s not the end of the world. Bron Bron will forget about it within a couple minutes. Meanwhile guys like Bird and Jordan became more more competitive the more they won. You’d have to claw their eyeballs out to take what was theirs. Jordan was 6-0 in NBA Finals and was the Finals MVP every time. Not Bron Bron though. He’s chill with it. Totally at peace getting his ass kicked.
The bottomline is this. Everything Bron Bron accomplishes is on talent alone. But he is a classic front runner. Folds like a tent when things don’t go his way and he doesn’t even try to fight it. He just accepts his fate. If he had 1/10 of Jordan or Birds competitive spirit he’d hands down be the greatest player who ever lived. As it stands he’s a guy who needed to join a superteam to win a title. He’s a guy who asks out of the NBA finals with cramps. He’s a guy who doesn’t take losing personal. He’s a guy who charges 20K to attend his birthday parties. He’s a guy who you don’t want on your side when the chips are down because he doesn’t even put up a fight."

[No coincidences]

jordan is definitley a d-bag....but hell.....the guy refused to lose.....someone else wrote this....but i think its a pretty accurate summary of lebron and the difference between him and others

"So this press conference was before tonight’s demolition job. Anybody who watched it knew Bron Bron had already thrown in the towel and it’s everything that is wrong with him as a human. Listen is he a great player? Yes. Does he have an ounce of competitive spirit, pride or will to win? Not even close. I mean could you ever picture Bird, Jordan or Magic being asked why they are in such a jovial mood while being down 3-1 in the NBA finals? And how about his answer? ”It’s just basketball” Yeah it’s just basketball. Just the NBA Finals. Ho hum. No biggie. Just how legacies are built. .Not exactly like when Larry called everybody sissies in 84 and fired his keys across the tunnel walking out. Hell Bird basically forced Kevin McHale to stab Kurt Rambis in the heart. See that’s the difference. That’s why the Heat rolled over like dead dogs tonight. They know their leader thinks “it’s just basketball”. It’s not the end of the world. Bron Bron will forget about it within a couple minutes. Meanwhile guys like Bird and Jordan became more more competitive the more they won. You’d have to claw their eyeballs out to take what was theirs. Jordan was 6-0 in NBA Finals and was the Finals MVP every time. Not Bron Bron though. He’s chill with it. Totally at peace getting his ass kicked.
The bottomline is this. Everything Bron Bron accomplishes is on talent alone. But he is a classic front runner. Folds like a tent when things don’t go his way and he doesn’t even try to fight it. He just accepts his fate. If he had 1/10 of Jordan or Birds competitive spirit he’d hands down be the greatest player who ever lived. As it stands he’s a guy who needed to join a superteam to win a title. He’s a guy who asks out of the NBA finals with cramps. He’s a guy who doesn’t take losing personal. He’s a guy who charges 20K to attend his birthday parties. He’s a guy who you don’t want on your side when the chips are down because he doesn’t even put up a fight."

LeBron's one of the biggest phony "elite" athletes I've ever seen. He talks a big game re: championships and such, but in his honest moments, the real LeBron surfaces -- the one who, compared to the other "Mount Rushmore" type players in NBA history, doesn't even come close to stacking up from a competitive standpoint.

[seaborneq]

Lebron is this eras greatest player. Talent wise he is an all time great. Unselfishness an all time great, a good teammate an all time great. His indifference on its just basketball is just what KD has been saying for years. It's a different era of competitiveness when everybody playing is rich beyond their wildest dreams. Jordan played like he hadn't won anything in his last two finals when he already had four rings. Nobody, not even lebron can do that. Lebron realizes that as hard as he plays that he still needs competent teammates, Jordan said get anyone with a swollen nutsack off of my team. Lebron is a fit in type of guy, Jordan was the man no matter who else took the court. To sum it all up, there are personality differences in lebron and Jordan. There was a kid named randy white that was supposed to be the next mailman Malone. Same height, weight, and college as Karl Malone, the kid was out of the league in five years while Karl Malone knocked off heads 10 years after randy white was drafted. It is more mental than physical when it comes to being the greatest of all time. Lebron is an all time great, just not head and shoulders above his peers like Jordan Ever was. Better yes, but Jordan just had the bigger gap by a long shot.

[upscope]

I'm confused as to how Lebron is playing with 4 HOF'ers by his side.


As to this fourth and final mystery HOF'er that "upscope" is referring to, I'd like to know who that is....

So while I can't tell all you Lebron haters how to feel towards the man, I can at least ask that you bring some objectivity to the table in your assessment of him. In other words, pull your heads out of your asses. James got marginal help from his teammates against the Spurs. He was not surrounded by four HOF'ers.

The Heat have four HOF's in thier top 6:

L. James
D. Wade
C. Bosh
R. Allen

Here's the problem with you LeBron nuthuggers. It's the same excuse every yr. When LeBron loses it's always NEEDS MORE HELP!! After the failures in Cleveland with 4 all-stars in the starting line-UP he got his "more help" when the 3 most coveted free agents on the market & future HOF'ers colluded to supposedly get him the help he needs. Apparently, he needed even more help so they get another future HOF'er in the mix. After failure, here comes the same old tired & stall azz excuse.....NEED MORE HELP!!

WTF do you want?? Isn't it funny how all the all-stars & HOF'ers supposedly never show UP when it matters?? Maybe, just maybe some of the blame should go squarely on the shoulders of the leader that keeps asking & receiving "more help" Maybe if LeBron showed UP in the 4th quarter & refused to lose like the greats before him we wouldn't have to blame all the help that he keeps asking for & receiving

The Heat built their team. They spent all their money on the 3 most coveted players at thee time. What do you think the league is supposed to do?? Should they just surround LeBron with all the available help each yr?? Only all-stars & HOF'er's in their prime heed apply?? I mean it looks like this yr those available that qualify are K. Love & C. Anthony. Is the league supposed to just hand LeBron those guys this yr & then whatever elite all-star becomes available the following yr??

You LeBron nuthuggers act as if he's privileged and is supposed to win every yr & deserves to be surrounded by whoever is going to play well when it matters. The point is LeBron had PLENTY of help in Cleveland & he has even MORE help in Mia so stop with the lame ass NEED MORE HELP excuse & start with the "well if LeBron really is as good as the other greats why does he fukkin disappear @ the most important times"

LeBron hand picked the broken down Wade & the soft overrated Bosh now he's stuck with them. Maybe he should have picked his "help" more wisely. What exact help would the nuthuggers like??

pg-C. Paul
sg-J. Harden
sf-L. james
pf-K. Love
c-D. Howard

Is that enough help for you?? And then when one of those players start to fall from prime we'll just replace them with the best available player....How does that sound??

The guy has gotten more help than any other superstar over the last 5 yrs & everytime it's NEED MORE HELP....fukkin comical!

[bigtymer56]

The Heat have four HOF's in thier top 6:

L. James
D. Wade
C. Bosh
R. Allen

Here's the problem with you LeBron nuthuggers. It's the same excuse every yr. When LeBron loses it's always NEEDS MORE HELP!! After the failures in Cleveland with 4 all-stars in the starting line-UP he got his "more help" when the 3 most coveted free agents on the market & future HOF'ers colluded to supposedly get him the help he needs. Apparently, he needed even more help so they get another future HOF'er in the mix. After failure, here comes the same old tired & stall azz excuse.....NEED MORE HELP!!

WTF do you want?? Isn't it funny how all the all-stars & HOF'ers supposedly never show UP when it matters?? Maybe, just maybe some of the blame should go squarely on the shoulders of the leader that keeps asking & receiving "more help" Maybe if LeBron showed UP in the 4th quarter & refused to lose like the greats before him we wouldn't have to blame all the help that he keeps asking for & receiving

The Heat built their team. They spent all their money on the 3 most coveted players at thee time. What do you think the league is supposed to do?? Should they just surround LeBron with all the available help each yr?? Only all-stars & HOF'er's in their prime heed apply?? I mean it looks like this yr those available that qualify are K. Love & C. Anthony. Is the league supposed to just hand LeBron those guys this yr & then whatever elite all-star becomes available the following yr??

You LeBron nuthuggers act as if he's privileged and is supposed to win every yr & deserves to be surrounded by whoever is going to play well when it matters. The point is LeBron had PLENTY of help in Cleveland & he has even MORE help in Mia so stop with the lame ass NEED MORE HELP excuse & start with the "well if LeBron really is as good as the other greats why does he fukkin disappear @ the most important times"

LeBron hand picked the broken down Wade & the soft overrated Bosh now he's stuck with them. Maybe he should have picked his "help" more wisely. What exact help would the nuthuggers like??

pg-C. Paul
sg-J. Harden
sf-L. james
pf-K. Love
c-D. Howard

Is that enough help for you?? And then when one of those players start to fall from prime we'll just replace them with the best available player....How does that sound??

The guy has gotten more help than any other superstar over the last 5 yrs & everytime it's NEED MORE HELP....fukkin comical!

Btw, who are the 4 all-stars that he played with in Cleveland? Guessing:
Old Shaq
Boozer (only played with lebron his first 2 seasons)
Big Z? (probably got a spot during that long period when there were only a few even decent big men in the east).
Antwan Jamison?

[No coincidences]

It's a different era of competitiveness when everybody playing is rich beyond their wildest dreams.

This. Money ruined the competitive spirit of the game. These guys make way too much $$$ to care about winning as much as the players of previous generations. It's only natural to lose the fire when you make eight figures guaranteed.

[upscope]

Btw, who are the 4 all-stars that he played with in Cleveland? Guessing:
Old Shaq
Boozer (only played with lebron his first 2 seasons)
Big Z? (probably got a spot during that long period when there were only a few even decent big men in the east).
Antwan Jamison?

LeBron James 2009 all-star.....Fact
Mo Williams 2009 all-star....Fact
Shaq 2009 all-star....Fact
Antwan Jamison 2008 all-star....Fact

After the trip to Finals in '07 LeBron asked the front office for help. He wanted a point guard. In '08 Cleveland went out & got (at the time) the #1 coveted available point guard on the market, M. Williams. After failure yet again he asked for a big man. Cleveland responded by bringing in (at the time) the #1 coveted available big on the market, Shaq. Cleveland was steamrolling the league & at the deadline the Cavs were tying to bring in Amare but LeBron was asking for a shooter instead. Cleveland went out got (@ the time) the #1 coveted shooter available on the market, A. Jamison.
This team had the 3rd highest payroll, best record in the league, homecourt throughout, MVP of the league, Coach of the year, one of the deepest benches in the league. LeBron received everything he asked for & EVERYBODY agreed he was set-UP to win with this team. After failure it was "NEED MORE HELP" "CLE HAD 7 YRS & NEVER GOT HIM ANYTHING" blah blah blah.
Same sh#t in Miami. Can't win in Cle so goes & gets more help. Handpicks Wade & Bosh then asks for more & receives R. Allen & every veteran ring chaser willing to play for the minimum on the market & guess what "NEED MORE HELP"

Not a single elite player in the league has received anywhere near the help that LeBron has over the last 5 yrs. Not one, & it's not even close.

[jsmithj88]

ok, u r correct, his core won titles and got to 4 straight finals
lebron doesnt need more help
he just needs them TO SHOW UP

[upscope]

ok, u r correct, his core won titles and got to 4 straight finals
lebron doesnt need more help
he just needs them TO SHOW UP

Yep, it's always a pass for LeBron when he doesn't show UP. Why shouldn't it be when you will always have the "NEED MORE HELP" lame excuse to fall back on....

[jsmithj88]

i said , u were correct
he doesnt need more help
he needs to current "help" to actually help

im not even sure what ur point is .........
so if lebron shows up in the 4th, they would have won?
they were down big almost every game into the 4th .........

if lebron score 20, the spurs would have scored 40
spurs were just cruising by the midpoint of almost every 4th quarter

[MoneyLineDawg]

Everyone keeps talking about Lebron's lack of competitive drive or whatever as if its the end all be all......No doubt Jordan has much more of a killer instinct, but it's only part of the whole picture

What it comes down to is people just don't like Lebron as a whole and will continually beat down the parts of his game that aren't strengths as well as the things he has done wrong....He ain't perfect but people just need to get off his back sometimes

His physical gifts and overall basketball IQ make him a top 5 player IMO at this point.....IF he had that killer instinct he would be the GOAT

[upscope]

i said , u were correct
he doesnt need more help
he needs to current "help" to actually help

im not even sure what ur point is .........
so if lebron shows up in the 4th, they would have won?
they were down big almost every game into the 4th .........

if lebron score 20, the spurs would have scored 40
spurs were just cruising by the midpoint of almost every 4th quarter

You're right it doesn't matter if LeBron shows UP or not they are still getting beat in this particular series. The point is if you go back through the thread you see numerous people claiming that LeBron needs more help. He has more support than any other player in the league but every time he loses that's the excuse.

[Eddy Munny]

There was no Big 3 in Miami jerseys.

The Big 3 (and now 4, with Kawhi Leonard) showed up for the Spurs, but we can’t say the same for the Heat. Check out the stat lines for Miami’s Big 3 through five games:

FG% 3P% RPG APG PPG
LeBron .571 .519 7.8 4.0 28.2
Wade .438 .333 3.8 2.6 15.2
Bosh .549 .385 5.2 1.0 14.0

LeBron scored one less point per game than Wade and Bosh combined. More assists than these two combined. Just a shade under a rebound less per game. Better shooting from deep and from the field in general. Basically: LeBron played like the All-Star and All-NBA player he is while Wade and Bosh played like pedestrians, at best.

[MoneyLineDawg]

The Heat team minus Lebron this year was garbage.....Especially in the finals

I'm sorry but anyone with half a clue could see that Lebron played great through the playoffs....sometimes there just isn't anything you can do

Knock Lebron for the Mavs Finals loss as he didn't play well.....But he carried the Cavs and the 14 Heat all the way until it wasn't possible anymore

I just hate the whole judging players solely on wins and championships and that goes for any sport.....Go deeper than that, its just lazy as hell

Also, who gives a fukk if Lebron switches teams....Don't hear people talking shit about Wayne Gretzky for bouncing around from the Oilers to the Kings and Rangers and Blues

[ThaTopMoron]

so let me get this straight,lebron gets credit for the 2 rings but takes no credit for the failures?

are we talking bout LeBron or Tom Brady?

fukk both of em...

[jsmithj88]

i thought lebron had 3 HOF teammates
so why is it they get a pass and lebron gets 100% of the blame?
this is really dumb and pathetic, of all the finals to shit on lebron, this is not the one
he did his part