No planes on 9-11-01

[BigDofBA]

I'm reaching out with an olive branch here in an attempt at a peace treaty with the 9/11 truthers

I'm willing to admit I don't know what happened, and maybe our gov't was involved, if ya'll are willing to meet me halfway and admit that none of ya'll know what happened either, and maybe our gov't wasn't involved.

Let's be honest, none of us KNOW shit. We're all being fed information, re-read that. WE'RE ALL BEING FED INFORMATION. You all aren't anymore enlightened than us, and we're not less ignorant than yall. I say ignorant because none of us know anything other than what we read from someone else.

For every 9/11 conspiracy theory, is a debunked 9/11 conspiracy theory. For every 10 scientists, engineers, pilots and physcists that say two planes could not have brought down the towers as they did, there are 10 of each saying the exact opposite.

SO MEET ME HALF WAY AND ADMIT YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT!

Good post Kraken. It probably won't happen though.

I don't think you or I ever said we know exactly what happened like some of the truthers did. We just pointed out some of the facts as well as theories that were disproven years ago.

Remote control planes were not used because there were two planes that departed Boston full of passengers that never came back. People that keep saying they weren't commercial planes are just flat wrong and will need another conspiracy to even begin to support that scenario.

This is why it's hard to even have a logical debate about this. We can't even get people to understand the elementary elements of 911.

I used to buy into some of this crap but did my own research and reached my own conclusions.

[Snowball]

“All the (intelligence services) of America and Europe know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part in Iraq and Afghanistan.”


Francesco Cossiga, former Prime Minister and President of Italy.

Andreas Von Bulow, former Defense Minister of Germany has said the same,
so has Dr. Alan Sabrosky listen to him. He's a marine and is Jewish.
This is not anti-semitic at all. We're supposed to be adults and not be
afraid to explore criminals for being criminals regardless of their ethnicity.

[BigDofBA]

“All the (intelligence services) of America and Europe know well that the disastrous attack has been planned and realized from the Mossad, with the aid of the Zionist world in order to put under accusation the Arabic countries and in order to induce the western powers to take part in Iraq and Afghanistan.”.

Cossiga has also rejected conspiracies and said that it "seems unlikely that September 11 was the result of an American plot". This dude is wishy washy and going back in forth without any facts. He obviously has an agenda.

Saying you think something is different than knowing or having facts.

Someone please provide me with concrete evidence it was an inside job. Please! No one has any evidence. Apparently it was remote control airplanes or it was some cartoon and planes didn't really fly into the buildings and the media was in on it reading us a script...the "truthers" don't really know. The only thing the "truthers" are sure of is that they don't believe what thousands of people saw with their own eyes.

One thing I've asked about 10 times in this thread that none of the conspiracy theorist have answered is who flew the planes into the buildings? If they were remote control, what happened to the passengers and flights that left Boston that morning and never returned?

There is a reason that no one can answer these questions. It's because you have no idea, no facts, and haven't formulated another theory yet to support your previous theories. It will all come back to more people being involved in the cover up....I guess United Airlines and American airlines were in on it to along with airport workers, the news, and actors who played the rolls of the family. And they all did this so just a few people could make money off the whole thing.....lmfao.

You people are trying to put a puzzle together with pieces that don't fit.

When you show me something real I'll change my tune.

[Auto Donk]

yep, the sbr truthers have their heads up their asses, and obviously don't have a f'n clue

[Auto Donk]

9/11

Planes were a diversion

Free energy used to make towers disappear into thin air, literally

Patriot act, take away our freedom... Much more involved, but most here would know what I mean

War with a CIA made AL qaeda, already blaming former CIA asset bin Laden, whose fam is also a member of the Carlisle group, along with Bush family, yes this is true

Marvin bush, former head of towers security

Larry silverstiein purchased towers which were known to have asbestos issues, made billions, the Jews and neocons all work together

Money disappeared, trillions

Dov zakheim previously stated that a new pearl Harbor would be necessary for American public to start a war in middle east...
Also, look up tridata Corp, he also had knowledge of the structural integrity of the buildings from his investigation of the '93 trade center bombing

There are literally dozens of facts that can be brought to the table showing that 9/11 was an inside job carried out by the CIA and Mossad. Ever hear of the dancing Israelis? There were people waiting to witness the event, and there is proof that people were told not to go to work that day.

This is the basic idea off the top of my head, I could go on all day.

pssstttt... (whispering softly)... hey.... psstt... bad news.... THEY're outside watching you.....

[sourtwist]

Why are they watching me? They are laughing at me from afar because anything I tell you falls on deaf (and dumb) ears. Whether I'm creative enough to fabricate my own stories and bullshit theories or not, or even show facts and evidence, you'll still be just as defiant. You're like a soldier for them, hopefully they are paying you.

[sourtwist]

Cossiga has also rejected conspiracies and said that it "seems unlikely that September 11 was the result of an American plot". This dude is wishy washy and going back in forth without any facts. He obviously has an agenda.

Saying you think something is different than knowing or having facts.

Someone please provide me with concrete evidence it was an inside job. Please! No one has any evidence. Apparently it was remote control airplanes or it was some cartoon and planes didn't really fly into the buildings and the media was in on it reading us a script...the "truthers" don't really know. The only thing the "truthers" are sure of is that they don't believe what thousands of people saw with their own eyes.

One thing I've asked about 10 times in this thread that none of the conspiracy theorist have answered is who flew the planes into the buildings? If they were remote control, what happened to the passengers and flights that left Boston that morning and never returned?

There is a reason that no one can answer these questions. It's because you have no idea, no facts, and haven't formulated another theory yet to support your previous theories. It will all come back to more people being involved in the cover up....I guess United Airlines and American airlines were in on it to along with airport workers, the news, and actors who played the rolls of the family. And they all did this so just a few people could make money off the whole thing.....lmfao.

You people are trying to put a puzzle together with pieces that don't fit.

When you show me something real I'll change my tune.

OK, what proof do you need to show that it was an inside job?

I need proof to show that it wasn't an inside job.

The only reason you even know about the planes hitting the towers is because of the television, and controlled media. Why do you believe that story, exactly?

The one where they told you immediately following the attack that bin Laden was responsible, while hiding out somewhere on the other side of the world with his goat fukking friends... That sounds believable to you? That a man in the middle east brought down the towers without the help of the three letter government agencies? Are you not aware of the intelligence information available to our government, and Israeli leadership? Or are you in the dark about their capabilities? Do you have any idea of the technology available to these agencies? Their resources are infinite, they happen to be the ones who print that fiat money that controls our lives...they control the food we eat, they are also the ones who vaccinate us... Our children's schooling..it goes on but I'm probably wasting my time as usual.

[Ebe]

The government never lies. Cmon guys. They have nothing to hide.

[The Kraken]

So be ause the gov't has lied before, that means they lied about 9/11? Do they lie about everything?

[sourtwist]

Kraken, I'm sorry to have to be the person to tell you this....

Yes, the government lies, and 99.9% of them lie about everything.

Trey Gowdy, in my eyes, is one of the few.

[Ebe]

The government loves each and every civilian. They would never harm anyone to gain anything.

[BigDofBA]

The government loves each and every civilian. They would never harm anyone to gain anything.

Kraken and I never said that and I don't trust the government anymore than you do.

There are a lot of money and power hungry people running things and we are just pawns for the most part.

With that said, I don't think that means the government did something like this at all. They don't need to. They can control things and do what they want anyway.

[Ebe]

There are a lot of money and power hungry people running things and we are just pawns for the most part.

[Ebe]

Everything you ever hear on the news is 100% true. It has to be. Its after all, the news.

The government wouldnt lie to anyone. Thats just crazy.

[BigDofBA]

The only reason you even know about the planes hitting the towers is because of the television, and controlled media. Why do you believe that story, exactly?

That's wrong actually. You really shouldn't assume anything. My friend lived at at 14th street and 5th avenue in Manhattan. He told me he saw the second plane hit the tower because he was watching from his apartment.

So to corroborate what I saw on TV along with the rest of the world, my friend who was there saw it live with his own eyes. I've also been to conferences for my job and talked with instructors who worked in the WTC that day. These people corroborate what the news was broadcasting as well.

So I have the following information to go off:

- Personal friends seeing it in Manhattan the day it happened
- Live News Coverage
- Radar Data
- Airline Data from American Airlines and United Airlines
- A list of effected family members who had people on the plane
- Debris found at the site.

What do you have? Some fabricated BS you read on the internet that caught your imagination? If we went into a court of law and each of us was trying to prove our case, my case would blow yours out of the water.

The fact that you would even question if a plane hit the building makes me laugh. For all of the "facts" that I listed above, you truther people are going to have to make up a conspiracy theory to explain all of them and non of your conspiracies would even be supported by anything of fact.

The fact that people even entertain the notion that planes hit the world trade center is astonishing and shows they're not capable of using logic to eliminate theories. I mean we literally have people on the internet spends hours and coming up with all of these theories and hypothesis of how it was possible that planes "didn't" hit the towers.....people actually come up with creative ideas but it's all a waste of time. It just shows how ridiculous some of these theories are.

Try this. Next time you see a plane flying over head try to film it. After your done, slow the video done and try to watch it frame by frame. It's probably not going to be the most clear thing....I laugh when people try to do this with amateur footage taken on 911. Of course it's going to look like the plane "dissappeared" into the building. Use some common sense...

Have any of you guys ever even been to Manhattan? Do you have any idea how many millions of people live there that saw this thing happen? How in the living f\*\*k could they fake planes flying into the towers? You really can't be that ignorant.

[Ebe]

Its not unusual at all that people saw and heard explosives and that molten metal was found.

Its also not unusual that all that the damage to the pentagon is inconsistent with what would have happened if it was slammed into by a plane.

Also we'll go ahead and give them the benefit of the doubt about the passport that survived the crash and fire and flew out the building and into the street.

[Ebe]

[Fidel_CashFlow]

Ebe's contributions are making the truthers look bad

World Trade Center 7 tho .....

[Ebe]

Not unusual at all that a steel framed building collapsed into dust without being hit by anything. Are you out of your mind?

[Ebe]

[Ebe]

[Ebe]

None of this is real or of importance though because its on youtube. But you can believe the news without a doubt.

[Ebe]

Watch this video

[Ebe]

Bombs in buildings

[Ebe]

All these people are insane though. They are mentally ill or just wrong.

It was Osama Bin Laden and his men.

[BigDofBA]

Not unusual at all that a steel framed building collapsed into dust without being hit by anything. Are you out of your mind?

This isn't a true statement. This is yet another reason why it's hard to believe anything the truthers say. I keep seeing a lot of things repeated in this thread that I researched like 5-7 years ago. People make these claims and suddenly it spreads like fire on the internet without anyone really digging to see if the claim is true.

Two of the largest buildings in the world collapsed right accross the street. Do you really think building 7 didn't get damaged? It was showered by debris yet truthers act like nothing ever touched it.

I know you guys are thinkers. I just wish you would see my points. When I say, "I'm 100% certain planes hit the towers" truthers pop off and say "Wow, you're stupid. You believe the media". When in fact, I know someone that lived there. Besides that key fact, I go ahead and play along and provide 5-6 examples of solid evidence that can't be refuted. Then I ask the truthers to prove their theory that remote control planes hit the tower and they have nothing. They say something like...."Well, I think it's possible we had the tecnology back then" or they say "The media was in on the cover up". These are all cop outs to me.

If you're going to say planes weren't used or the planes that crashed into the WTC weren't commercial airlines, you need to be prepared to answer what happened to the planes that took off from Boston that day along with all the passengers. If you can at least come up with a good explanation, which I'm still waiting on, I'll at least entertain your theory and respect it.

[The Kraken]

So the real passport came out of a CGI rendered plane???

[BigDofBA]

Bombs in buildings

First of all, bombs don't go off AFTER the building starts collapsing. In a demolition, bombs go off STARTING AT THE BASE OF THE STRUCTURE and then the building collapses in on itself.

What you see here is air pressure escaping out the points of least resistance in the building. As the floors collapse on top of each other, all of that air has to go somehwere. What you're seeing is air pressure blow out the sides of the building.

To someone that doesn't know anything about engineering, this would look like a controlled demolition but an expert would notice the key differences.

It doesn't surprise me that people "thought" they heard bombs. A big as building was on fire and collapsing. The truth of the matter is though, a demolition would be much much louder. As in you could hear it for miles.It's a creative attempt to explain what happened but it just isn't true. If you have evidence I'm wrong, please enlighten me. I have just given a completely logical rationale to explain this using common knowledge on how the process works. What do you have to say I'm wrong?

[The Kraken]

First of all, bombs don't go off AFTER the building starts collapsing. In a demolition, bombs go off STARTING AT THE BASE OF THE STRUCTURE and then the building collapses in on itself.

What you see here is air pressure escaping out the points of least resistance in the building. As the floors collapse on top of each other, all of that air has to go somehwere. What you're seeing is air pressure blow out the sides of the building.

To someone that doesn't know anything about engineering, this would look like a controlled demolition but an expert would notice the key differences.

It doesn't surprise me that people "thought" they heard bombs. A big as building was on fire and collapsing. The truth of the matter is though, a demolition would be much much louder. As in you could hear it for miles.It's a creative attempt to explain what happened but it just isn't true. If you have evidence I'm wrong, please enlighten me. I have just given a completely logical rationale to explain this using common knowledge on how the process works. What do you have to say I'm wrong?

BigD, you've done well in here. I enjoy the banter between you and sour, I think Ebe's gone off the deep end, he's lost my attention.

In fact anyone that wants to argue there were no planes, just CGI animations, they're dead to me.

[BigDofBA]

Bombs in buildings

What we're watching at the 59 second mark isn't a bomb dude. Even the guy filming says "Did you see that blow out?"

That further supports my explanation.

Give me one example of a demolition in which random events happened like this? You can't because in a demolition the set off the bombs first, taking out the base, and the the building collapses. Blasts don't just randomly come out the windows for 5 minutes until the building finally collapses.

THIS IS NOT EVIDENCE.

[BigDofBA]

BigD, you've done well in here. I enjoy the banter between you and sour, I think Ebe's gone off the deep end, he's lost my attention.

In fact anyone that wants to argue there were no planes, just CGI animations, they're dead to me.

I'm the first one to admit I don't know all of the facts but I'm also a smart enough to call bullshit.

I'm smart enough to know how some things work which makes it very easy to dismiss many of the key theories surrounding the 911 truth movement.

A lot of people out there don't even know how a demolition works. To the average Joes, it does look like a demolition. That doesn't mean that's what happened.

What makes some of this crap even harder to stomach though is that people don't even think a lot of these theories through. Even if we play along and say there were bombs, that leads to a ton of other things that need to be explained. How did they get there? Who put them there without anyone noticing? Damage had already been done, why use bombs on top of the planes? How were they able to keep this a secret because it would of required tons of people to pull off? Why would so many people go along with it? For what cause?

None of that crap adds up.

I'm trying to provide my thinking along with the evidence I have. I just want the other side of this debate to do the same. These youtube videos aren't evidence to me. I've already seen all of this. These videos are people trying to explain things and they don't even know what the hell they are looking at. They don't know the difference between a bomb and air pressure.

[BigDofBA]

Watch this video

"A jet can't slice through a building"

Says who? What proof does this guy have? I mean, we watched it on TV and people saw it live on TV. Did they not see this happen? If you're going to say a jet can't do this to a building, you need to show me an example comparable to this or provide some evidence. You can't just make some false statement. This is weak. That's like someone going in a court room and saying "I did not commit the murder because I'm not capable of doing something like that".

As for the CGI rendering crap....really? I don't doubt there are fake videos out there but what point is this guy trying to make? Is his point that a plane didn't hit the building even though my friend in Manhattan saw it? Hell, even if you think I'm full of shit, a ton of other people saw it too.

A plane didn't hit the building yet when everyone tuned in and looked at the building there was a huge ass hole in the building in the shape of plane and the building was on fire....how in the hell did that hole get there if there wasn't a plane? Can a truther explain this? Was it a photon torpedo fired from outter space?

If all of this is CGI rendering what happened to the planes that took off from Boston? Did the CIA fly them to Area 51 and hide them? Was all of the radar data faked? Were American Airlines and United Airlines in on the cover up too? What about the surveillance footage at the airport....oh yeah, I forgot. That was probaly a fake too.

[The Kraken]

I've seen no less than 3 youtube vids in here dedicated to the idea that no planes were involved, CGI only

I'm still confused how a real passport made it's way onto a holgraphic plane. They really did think of everything

[BigDofBA]

This guy is a wacko.

I would like him to try to change the mind of my friend that saw the plane hit. So a Holographic projection blew a hole in the building?

OK, what happend to the real planes that took off from Boston? What happened to the passengers? We will need more theories to explain that.

This just seems like a ploy to get youtube hits. If no planes hit the building, how in the hell was there a huge hole in the building in the shape of a plane? LOL.

Do you guys not see how many more questions these theories lead to? They don't event begin to explain everything that would have to happen if planes weren't used.

The fact that someone would spend this much time on a wack ass theory is comical.

I also like how these guys try to say parts of the plane were "planted there". How were they able to plant this stuff without anyone noticing.

[sourtwist]

Bigd, your reasoning is the reason that they get away with these things. It's irrational to for you to honestly watch any of the posted videos or documents that have been posted in here and to still think that the story you were told is the truth. It's like beating a dead horse. It's like trying to teach a person with no legs to walk...its useless to continue, but frustrating to see your dismissal of the only possible proof of anything that happened that day.

Think about that for a minute. Other than what the world was told that day on 9/11, by the people who bring us the news, what evidence is there that supports the ideas that you are representing? There's much more evidence and proof that contradicts every single idea that we were expected to believe from the events that occurred that day.