I will make a comment. God did not create evil men. God gave man free will. It is up to man to choose which path to follow.
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I do use the book... You ignore the facts that debunk it and ignore the scriptures that contradict... Could you point me in the direction of where some of these questions are answered, Logically and with some sort of credible proof? And not the same old "God had his reasons " etc etc... The book will always fall into the fiction category because of the lack of proof, contradictions (although Christians ignore the fukk out of them) and proven impossible feats...Look raydog, you really don't know me. If you want to tear down the Bible and people who've read it, by all means. I do it all the time. Only my conversations have a modicum of intelligence to them.
All I'm saying is use the actual book to do it, don't make alternate stories to do it, it really hurts you'r credibility.
And so what if the stories had God creating evil men and killing them off? If you've read the book you'll see it has God as one ruthless muthafukka in many instances. Nobody ignores these parts of the story, many have read them and had questions of why, just like yours, answered.
If you want to know what the three little pigs built there houses out of, read the story.
I won't knock your beliefs, I'll just never understand how you take the book more seriously than the next, when there is so much that is wrong with it.Comment -
Some interesting discussion going on in here. Go on continue, talk amongst yourself.Comment -
Is that what they said in the autopsy report that God put it there? Maybe he was dropped on his head when he was a child or hit on the head by something which started a growth in his brain which may have led to his tumor.
If you believe God put it there just so he would kill 19 people, I cannot change your mind.Comment -
Free will means, nothing us predetermined.
No?Comment -
Exactly, well said. Some people are brainwashed beyond belief. There have been thousands of documented supposed gods through history. If this guy grew up in India or Iraq, he would be hindu or muslim with a towel on his head thumping and promoting the Quran. In short, he would be an extremist who would praise Allah and be running down the streets screaming..lalalalalalala.That's the exact opposite of how it works freezer; the burden is on folks to prove something is true, not for people to disprove any random assertion that someone claims...otherwise anyone could make up anything, and as long as they were careful to make it unfalsifiable, we'd have to treat it the same as actual facts
Do you happen to have a quote from the bible that supports your claim, which is that the law only applies to those who don't accept jesus?
In theory a bear's descendants could evolve into whales given the right environmental conditions. As it seems to have happened, a common ancestor of the two produced descendants which diverged into the two, among many others. Evidenced by the genetic similarities which are unlikely to have evolved separately.
We didn't evolve from fish; we had a common ancestor which produced descendants who split into different groups and adapted to various environments with less competition. The existing environment wouldn't be deserted, because it still supported life.Comment -
Freeze would be a weak minded following sheep anywhere in the world he lives. You just leave these people alone and let them self destruct while they live their lives consumed with fear that is not real.Comment -
But he does question.
Read his threads. He is smart, analytical, and sceptical when he posts about gambling & books & lines & public perception.
But when it comes to his religion, like others, he seems to abandon reason & logic.
I am baffled when I see this.
People who are seemingly logical & reasonable until you talk to them about their religion.
Still love the CFL thread!Comment -
I think you may be baffled because I never abandoned reason and logic. Perhaps you could point out where I did this. I didn’t and thus, you may be baffled when you try to say that I do.
I simply corrected a story; I simply put the facts straight. There were 3 little pigs, not 4.
I am not religious and I do not have a religion. I am well aware of the human condition and can see the arguments on both sides, unlike many.
Despite not entering the conversation from a spiritual sense, posters like raydog just immediately assumed I was blinded by some sort of religious belief. In fact, I was the one setting EVERYONE in this thread straight about what 120 years meant.
I do not deny science and consider fiction as facts, despite being told I do by raydog. From what I’ve seen in this thread, my mastery of the scientific method and understanding of it’s concepts are far beyond what is being offered.
Raydog, I have addressed the questions you've asked, and explained that you can't handle the topics and have explained why. I’ve even told you what to do.
Yet still you will likely respond that I am somehow not seeing facts, or failing to admit some scientific proof because I am brainwashed....more empty bullets, because I never denied any facts and did not ignore an logic you provided.
You provided a story that wasn’t true to the bible, and claimed it was, and then argued about it. Not only did I not deny your “logic” here, I’ve had to repeat it several times.
Jay, you are baffled because posters are trying to pigeon hole me and can't because the posters themselves do not understand the nature of the pigeon hole, nor do they understand me.
There are many posters that cannot recognize that there are things in this world that they do not know.
Jay, you should know by now I think at a slightly elevated level, and look at the broader picture. I am not easily fooled and when someone keeps saying the book, any book, contradicts itself, but cannot produce a contradiction, and even tries to make one up.
That behavior doesn't belong in any thread.
Sure, claim I have some sort of religious brainwashed blinder on, but posters like raydog would do better actually submit an argument. I could submit several for a real discussion, but readers like raydog are not showing the ability to discuss these matters objectively, like I would.
"The world isn't the way I would make it if I were God, therefore there must be no God." or "A God would never allow someone to suffer, therefore there must be no God" are not very good arguments. A reader of the bible, whether they believed in God or just felt they were reading any old literature, would see why these arguments make little sense.
It's like saying God sets man's longevity to 120 years. A reader of the bible, whether they believed in God or not, would see why this is wrong...it's not what the bible says.
In general, I don't engage in such intellectually juvenile discussion, I simply entered to correct the facts of the story.
Most of the “debate” that has gone on in this thread truly is juvenile. Those who still try to pit science against the bible and creationism against evolution are no further along intellectually, on this topic, than those who still debate Democrat vs. Republican in a political discussion.
There’s even been specific discussion about whether or not Charles Darwin omitted something out of one of his books.
Folks should understand that we are far, far beyond the science and knowledge of Darwin’s time. We have confirmed and dis-confirmed so much since then. Our body of knowledge has grown exponentially and whether Darwin thinks he himself was right or wrong and to think that would influence current theory is another intellectually juvenile discussion.
I’m not saying I’m better than anybody, I’m just pointing out the level of these discussions.
Yet it goes on.
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This is a great point. Perhaps another we'll never know situation. It's easy to say the tumor took away his free will, but does that make it true?
While parts of his brain may have been compromised, it still doesn't mean he didn't choose to commit the murders. I'd like to say the tumor caused it, but I know better.
After all, there have been many coldly calculated serial killers with high body counts who never had a brain tumor.
When we do identify brain differences in these people, we can see the same differences in others who do not kill. This implies that somewhere along the way a choice was made. I am sure every case is very different.
I saw a TedTalk once given by an experienced death row attorney. His clients had many remarkable things in common when it came to background, but the individuals still made choices.
But does everyone really get choice? What about the Buddhist monks in India who were all killed when a large earthquake in a remote area leveled the huts they lived in.
The Bible says everyone will one day confess to Jesus. But these monks, who may have never even heard the story of Christ, much less learn about the Bible were killed with seemingly no free choice or opportunity at all.
Or maybe their time to confess was at the moment of death. There are things we don't know, wierd shit at that...ever looked into quantum mechanics and quantum behavior? These are premier areas of science that do not follow logic and common sense.
See raydog, some of the most cutting edge science can't make sense of it's observations. There is much about the world we still don't understand, even if we can see it.
The bible presents difficult questions whether one is a believer or not. The questions I see raydog offering are ones that are often offered by believers struggling, not non believers looking for proof. These questions about God's purpose and reason are usually readily answered within the text.
Again, whether you believe in God or the Bible, or not.
But what do I know, I'm just brainwashed by the people I grew up with and can't see facts from fiction.
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So you see it from both sides and are arguing both sides, I'm curious what your beliefs are?
You encorage Ray to put forth an argument, I'd love to read your argument for whatever it is you believe.
You come across as logical, very well educated and seemingly unbiased, if not just playing devils advocate.
Whether or not I'm at an intellectual level high enough to discuss your thoughts with you, I'd like to hear them nonetheless. I try to learn something new everyday and this week is looking rather bleak as of now.Comment -
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BoldI think you may be baffled because I never abandoned reason and logic. Perhaps you could point out where I did this. I didn’t and thus, you may be baffled when you try to say that I do.
I simply corrected a story; I simply put the facts straight. There were 3 little pigs, not 4.
I am not religious and I do not have a religion. I am well aware of the human condition and can see the arguments on both sides, unlike many.
Despite not entering the conversation from a spiritual sense, posters like raydog just immediately assumed I was blinded by some sort of religious belief. In fact, I was the one setting EVERYONE in this thread straight about what 120 years meant.
I do not deny science and consider fiction as facts, despite being told I do by raydog. From what I’ve seen in this thread, my mastery of the scientific method and understanding of it’s concepts are far beyond what is being offered.
Raydog, I have addressed the questions you've asked, and explained that you can't handle the topics and have explained why. I’ve even told you what to do.
Yet still you will likely respond that I am somehow not seeing facts, or failing to admit some scientific proof because I am brainwashed....more empty bullets, because I never denied any facts and did not ignore an logic you provided.
You provided a story that wasn’t true to the bible, and claimed it was, and then argued about it. Not only did I not deny your “logic” here, I’ve had to repeat it several times.
Jay, you are baffled because posters are trying to pigeon hole me and can't because the posters themselves do not understand the nature of the pigeon hole, nor do they understand me.
There are many posters that cannot recognize that there are things in this world that they do not know.
Jay, you should know by now I think at a slightly elevated level, and look at the broader picture. I am not easily fooled and when someone keeps saying the book, any book, contradicts itself, but cannot produce a contradiction, and even tries to make one up.
That behavior doesn't belong in any thread.
Sure, claim I have some sort of religious brainwashed blinder on, but posters like raydog would do better actually submit an argument. I could submit several for a real discussion, but readers like raydog are not showing the ability to discuss these matters objectively, like I would.
"The world isn't the way I would make it if I were God, therefore there must be no God." or "A God would never allow someone to suffer, therefore there must be no God" are not very good arguments. A reader of the bible, whether they believed in God or just felt they were reading any old literature, would see why these arguments make little sense.
Im with you to this point KVB ...
It's like saying God sets man's longevity to 120 years. A reader of the bible, whether they believed in God or not, would see why this is wrong...it's not what the bible says.
They would see this as wrong ...why didn't i ? Does it matter ? Your sounding a little full of yourself brother time to let some air out...
In general, I don't engage in such intellectually juvenile discussion, I simply entered to correct the facts of the story.
Juvenile ... So I'm juvenile !? This thread is juvenile ? ... Then find your way out of it brother... There is no need to bend your back to impress us, either tell us your true agenda or reasons, or exist door C.... Ridiculous ... I respected your opinion until this post ...pretty much belittling anyone that post in it, to be under you, or you have the knowledge of... Listen to me when I tell you..... YOU HAVE NO IDEA SON
Most of the “debate” that has gone on in this thread truly is juvenile. Those who still try to pit science against the bible and creationism against evolution are no further along intellectually, on this topic, than those who still debate Democrat vs. Republican in a political discussion.
No comparison ... Only your mind connecting the differences that aren't there, science exist and so does creation.
There’s even been specific discussion about whether or not Charles Darwin omitted something out of one of his books.
he did ...period
Folks should understand that we are far, far beyond the science and knowledge of Darwin’s time. We have confirmed and dis-confirmed so much since then. Our body of knowledge has grown exponentially and whether Darwin thinks he himself was right or wrong and to think that would influence current theory is another intellectually juvenile discussion.
i don't care where we are.. Prove what I've spoken here a lie.... Other then that shut your mouth and place a bet.
I’m not saying I’m better than anybody, I’m just pointing out the level of these discussions.
Yet it goes on.
You've pointed nothing... A vain thought, that has some what disturbed... You've done nothing to make better or worse. If you think your better then anyone here ... I will assure you now.... YOUR NOT !! But I will pray for you God bless KVB ...
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i don't care where we are.. Prove what I've spoken here a lie.... Other then that shut your mouth and place a bet.
That was probably very close to how Jesus would have put it!
I think I understand a little better now.
The 4 little pigs analogy helped. You're saying that the little pigs story, is just that. A story that's fiction & you are aware that it's not true, however, there were only 3 pigs in the story not 4.
Am I following?Comment -
Guess you feel you hit the hammer on the nail there right ? ... I'm scared ... I'm in fear, can't you feel it in every post.... As for self destruction .. It's the exact opposite, we as Gods children bere fruit, through the Spirit, no destruction .. Construction, for the world ...Comment -
Ancient alien theorists believe we are created in the image of aliens. They had the knowledge of chromosome
manipulation. They either had sex with our women or manipulated our chromosomes.
Since that is a scientific probability, do you non believers in an almighty ponder that possibility?Comment -
Kvb.. I'm not struggling.. If the bible is the way to invite me into believing in a God, then I will never struggle, as I know the book to be fiction and God to be the main fictional character... I apologize if I have mistook you as a typical thumper...
But you never actually gave me any of your thoughts on God creating men that he knew he would kill off within 120yrs.. and why hasn't it happened again, if men wee created the exact same way as before.. It's just conversationComment -
if this doesnt make you feel pretty silly about having ridiculous religious beliefs, it really really should...
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hawkings being hawkings ... interesting, but he might be fishing for attention
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Although I don't believe in god; I don't believe in black holes either. The shit is like unicorns or fairy tales. It's just brain washing media/government bullshit just like religion.
Just research Nikola Tesla. The man was a pure genius and the government and world elites tried to shut this man up for good for all the stuff he knew. He knew too much about the truth that the gov didn't want the public to know.
He believed in an all electric universe. Not no black hole BS. I would never believe modern day mainstream media and their full of shit know nothing scientists and theoretical physicists. Nikola Tesla was the man.
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Here is a quote from Tesla from the early 1900's. He knew of BS way before anyone else did.
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.Comment
