GOD

[brainfreeze]

Why did these Tibetan martyrs choose such a horrible death rather than endure Chinese occupation?
What alternative avenues of redress did these Tibetans have? China invaded and occupied Tibet with the promise that the future would be better than the past.

All these Tibetans were born under Chinese occupation--they are new generation of Tibetans who should owe no allegiance to the Tibetan Government in exile because the life they lived were under full control of Chinese Government and occupation. Human beings, organizations and governments posit set of norms and laws that justify continuation.

China and Chinese government have responded to these Tibetan protests with blinders, brutality and chauvinism. What justification is there for denying Tibetans basic human rights and autonomy?

This has nothing to do with religion or Buddhism. This has to do with China invading and fking with the Tibetans. Not sure what you were trying to do here?

...huh? This isn't just about Tibet...

Self-immolation is tolerated by some elements of Mahayana Buddhism and Hinduism, and it has been practiced for many centuries, especially in India, for various reasons, including Sati, political protest, devotion, and renouncement. Certain warrior cultures, such as in the Charans and Rajputs, also practiced self-immolation.

Following Fayu's example, many Buddhist monks and nuns have used self-immolation for political purposes. Based upon analysis of Chinese historical records from the 4th to the 20th centuries, Benn discovered, "Although some monks did offer their bodies in periods of relative prosperity and peace, we have seen a marked coincidence between acts of self-immolation and times of crisis, especially when secular powers were hostile towards Buddhism.

[brainfreeze]

http://listverse.com/2010/02/23/10-p...ty-a-bad-name/

JIM JONES

But that’s nothing compared to the 909 people, 276 of them children, who became enamored with the handsome charismatic founder of the Peoples Temple. James Warren Jones started out Methodist, and seemed to have fine intentions, endeavoring to bring about civil right for blacks and integrate American society. Somewhere along the line, he went patently insane. He was an aggressive narcissist, just as entries 1, 4, 7, 8, 9, and 10. He never claimed to be the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, and the only reason he founded the Peoples Temple was for the money he could make via his congregation.

The strangest part is that his followers were not hopeless runaways or uneducated and uninformed. They were predominantly members of other Christian denominations, Methodism, Presbyterianism, Disciples of Christ, etc. They were taken in by his good looks and charm, and his ability to lead and convince.

In 1974, the Temple went to Guyana, with only 50 members. But Jones promised others back in the States a tropical paradise, and they flocked by the hundreds to “Jonestown.” Because he had always been an outspoken communist sympathizer, and intended Jonestown to be a socialist save haven, he drew the attention of the U. S. Government.

On November 17, 1978, investigating claims of abuse within the Temple, California congressman Leo Ryan went to Jonestown, and about 15 members wanted to leave with him. They attempted to depart via a nearby airstrip, and were fired upon by Temple security guards. Ryan was killed, along with four others, one a Temple member.

When the shooters returned to Jonestown, Jones and accomplices were preparing a mass suicide by poisoning: Flavor Aid loaded with cyanide, phenergan, Valium and chloral hydrate. There are graphic pictures of the dead lying en masse outside the pavilion, 909 of them. The children were probably not told that the drink was poisoned. Jones shot himself in the head.

Yea, good reminder... Don't drink the kool-aide, what does that have to do with anything though. Buddha and self immolation is something that goes together and still happens now, Jim jones had nothing to do with Christ or Christianity.

[raydog]

Sounds like you want heaven on earth... Not happening until the 2nd coming of Christ. By the way Hi raydog...

haha, you know better than that... i want the slightest inkling of proof or gtfo of my constitution/politics/govt and polluting the younger generations with fear and false hope etc...

i got pissed the other day because there were church people asking for donations outside a local store...they were one of Entirely too many new churches being thrown up in order to beg for tax free dollars, like all the others... a woman told her boy to give them a dollar because he didnt want god to get mad at him if he didnt... i wanted to tell the woman how she was mentally fukking her child for life, but decided not to... cant believe adults teach their children to fear for their lives without any proof whatsoever... in my book, its abuse.

anyways, how you been doing, bf? hope all is well and you are staying out of the heat as best you can...

[brainfreeze]

haha, you know better than that... i want the slightest inkling of proof or gtfo of my constitution/politics/govt and polluting the younger generations with fear and false hope etc...

i got pissed the other day because there were church people asking for donations outside a local store...they were one of Entirely too many new churches being thrown up in order to beg for tax free dollars, like all the others... a woman told her boy to give them a dollar because he didnt want god to get mad at him if he didnt... i wanted to tell the woman how she was mentally fukking her child for life, but decided not to... cant believe adults teach their children to fear for their lives without any proof whatsoever... in my book, its abuse.

anyways, how you been doing, bf? hope all is well and you are staying out of the heat as best you can...

I understand your concern, but it's kind of hard to leave God out of rights, when they were endowed by our Creator. The story with the kid and his mom though... Yeah, I don't get that either, sounds like her understanding of God is wrong and she hasn't been reading the gospels, because God doesn't run on fear. I do fear God but it's a healthy fear, something to take serious and study and understand, fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. God loves us, ... Gave his Son for us..

Proverbs 9:10
. 10The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

Im good raydog, can't complain, hope you are well ...and yes it's hot man ..haha

[Triple_D_Bet]

Trippity tripper...

Good to see ya back bud! We've pretty much beaten that horse to death though; science understands the reasons behind what you claim are miracles very well, you and some just don't acknowledge it. likewise, scriptures can't be taken as prophecy unless you interpret things in the vaguest terms and ignore the contradictions and predictions that haven't come to pass.

Buddhists believe in mankind and humanity. We believe in science and facts. To put it shortly, we believe in ourselves. We are very strong minded people. It was kind of an insult that you insinuated God and supernatural bs with Buddhism. I know you're a good guy though and you weren't trying to insult me like you do to bobby.

No insult intended man; the supernatural i was referring to was karma, rebirth, etc. Seems like a core tenet that defines Buddhism right?

[brainfreeze]

Good to see ya back bud! We've pretty much beaten that horse to death though; science understands the reasons behind what you claim are miracles very well, you and some just don't acknowledge it. likewise, scriptures can't be taken as prophecy unless you interpret things in the vaguest terms and ignore the contradictions and predictions that haven't come to pass.



No insult intended man; the supernatural i was referring to was karma, rebirth, etc. Seems like a core tenet that defines Buddhism right?

That's just not true trip, science doesn't have it all figured out and they don't claim to, these things I've presented haven't even been well researched and surely they can not duplicate it. As for prophecy, it's detailed not vague, there are no contradictions n prophecy either so I don't know what u mean..

but always good to talk, don't see it as beating a horse, it's been said in this thread a few times that people are interested in the topic and they enjoyed the read,

[Triple_D_Bet]

That's just not true trip, science doesn't have it all figured out and they don't claim to, these things I've presented haven't even been well researched and surely they can not duplicate it. As for prophecy, it's detailed not vague, there are no contradictions n prophecy either so I don't know what u mean..

but always good to talk, don't see it as beating a horse, it's been said in this thread a few times that people are interested in the topic and they enjoyed the read,

Shrug, science has got this stuff figured out; not believing in it doesn't make it less proven. You obviously can't reproduce a specific delusion with desirable accuracy, but the ones you describe are similar to the consequences of well-understood brain mechanisms not disputed by even creation "scientists".

Care to share a prophecy you think is detailed?

[KVB]

Shrug, science has got this stuff figured out; not believing in it doesn't make it less proven. You obviously can't reproduce a specific delusion with desirable accuracy, but the ones you describe are similar to the consequences of well-understood brain mechanisms not disputed by even creation "scientists".

Care to share a prophecy you think is detailed?

Why can it not be possible that these well understood brain mechanisms are not only created by God and used by God, but also exploited by man and the Deceiver?

Could you be exploiting our knowledge of them to claim there is no God or does it really prove there is no God?

"You gotta serve somebody."

Why can't all this stuff that science has "figured out" still be God created stuff?

Are you saying you don't recognize that there is both good and evil in the world and that the two are constantly at odds?

Or is your framework of good, evil and morality simply one of pure random chance?

You really don't have to answer any of these, they are at a root level of understanding. These are simply offered for everyone's consideration, something to think about.



Sup Mr. Freeze?

[raydog]

if the bible is actually the Word of God, the bible should be much more accurate and contain less scientifically proven bullshit... god should render less unnecessary pain subjected to the innocent.. less starving, less death to the innocent... less catastrophes in the same areas... etc... ridiculously illogical to believe a higher power is controlling all of this...

ive often wondered, because i quit going shortly after i was old enough to understand the ridiculousness of the situation, but how come the brutal killing/raping/stoning/disrespecting women/slavery etc, that was both enjoyably done, condoned and forced by God, never gets mentioned in church? except the brutal beating of jesus and having him nailed to a cross.. (but thats something totally different than where im going)...the answer is very obvious... its hard to brainwash when you have to answer questions to things you have no idea how to answer...

its also obvious that if these brutal scriptures are touched upon, and that would be rare, the interpretation is so brutally butchered that people are led to believe that these immoral acts where somehow okay back then or were well deserved, but somehow turned into sin throughout time... perhaps simply changed depending on who the authors were for a certain period...

too much proof explains or debunks the fables and miracles that are supposed to be the main headliners for convincing people that god is real... i just dont get why its so hard for christians to accept facts and that fact will always reign over blind faith of an ancient and, daily, becoming more and more a fictional tale

as always, i dont care what anyone believes... keep that shit out of my government and out of any law that i have to abide and we are good... being brainwashed and threatened , as a child, has rendered so many people completely useless... if there is a god, he is killing off innocent people at a ridiculous rate and it strikes me as comical for Anyone to think that he gives more of a shit about one person more than any other... history, failed prayer and wasted money, going in the hands of other gullible scamming scumbags that run churches , pretty much proves my point that if there is a higher power, he is a ruthless dick, not worthy of anyone to praise ...

ill stick to evolution and hope the religious will continue to move out of the way and let science do its job

[brainfreeze]

Shrug, science has got this stuff figured out; not believing in it doesn't make it less proven. You obviously can't reproduce a specific delusion with desirable accuracy, but the ones you describe are similar to the consequences of well-understood brain mechanisms not disputed by even creation "scientists".

Care to share a prophecy you think is detailed?

You've shown in one case, where a scientist was able to make people hear a voice or feel something behind them ...artificially, you have not shown one case where a person is able to tell past details and past events with complete accuracy of a complete strangers life, by one sentimental valued item, these are different kinds of test, they were not the same, not even close,

And as for a prophecy, how about Israel being a powerful nation, .. A group of people that are no more then 12 million, holding there own as a great nation... Prophecy fulfilled, and to say that shooting darts wouldn't you pick a nation like china with billions of people to be a great nation...why pick a very small amount of people that were scattered amongst the globe ?

[brainfreeze]

Are you saying you don't recognize that there is both good and evil in the world and that the two are constantly at odds?

Or is your framework of good, evil and morality simply one of pure random chance?




Sup Mr. Freeze?

Good questions ...simple to

hey there,

[brainfreeze]

if the bible is actually the Word of God, the bible should be much more accurate and contain less scientifically proven bullshit... god should render less unnecessary pain subjected to the innocent.. less starving, less death to the innocent... less catastrophes in the same areas... etc... ridiculously illogical to believe a higher power is controlling all of this...

ive often wondered, because i quit going shortly after i was old enough to understand the ridiculousness of the situation, but how come the brutal killing/raping/stoning/disrespecting women/slavery etc, that was both enjoyably done, condoned and forced by God, never gets mentioned in church? except the brutal beating of jesus and having him nailed to a cross.. (but thats something totally different than where im going)...the answer is very obvious... its hard to brainwash when you have to answer questions to things you have no idea how to answer...

its also obvious that if these brutal scriptures are touched upon, and that would be rare, the interpretation is so brutally butchered that people are led to believe that these immoral acts where somehow okay back then or were well deserved, but somehow turned into sin throughout time... perhaps simply changed depending on who the authors were for a certain period...

too much proof explains or debunks the fables and miracles that are supposed to be the main headliners for convincing people that god is real... i just dont get why its so hard for christians to accept facts and that fact will always reign over blind faith of an ancient and, daily, becoming more and more a fictional tale

as always, i dont care what anyone believes... keep that shit out of my government and out of any law that i have to abide and we are good... being brainwashed and threatened , as a child, has rendered so many people completely useless... if there is a god, he is killing off innocent people at a ridiculous rate and it strikes me as comical for Anyone to think that he gives more of a shit about one person more than any other... history, failed prayer and wasted money, going in the hands of other gullible scamming scumbags that run churches , pretty much proves my point that if there is a higher power, he is a ruthless dick, not worthy of anyone to praise ...

ill stick to evolution and hope the religious will continue to move out of the way and let science do its job

It baffles me raydog, you don't take this more seriously ... You seem to be a smart guy, how are you so quick to pass judgment on such a thing, are you telling me all of these people throughout time, would give their life for a big fable, and they are just to dumb to not know the difference ? Don't underestimate this bud..


In the mid-12th century, the tide began to turn in the Crusades. The Muslim world had become more united under effective leaders such as Saladin, and dissension arose amongst Christian factions in, and concerning, the Holy Land. The Knights Templar were occasionally at odds with the two other Christian military orders, the Knights Hospitaller and the Teutonic Knights, and decades of internecine feuds weakened Christian positions, both politically and militarily. After the Templars were involved in several unsuccessful campaigns, including the pivotal Battle of the Horns of Hattin, Jerusalem was recaptured by Muslim forces under Saladin in 1187. The Crusaders regained the city in 1229, without Templar aid, but held it only briefly. In 1244, the Khwarezmi Turks recaptured Jerusalem, and the city did not return to Western control until 1917 when the British captured it from the Ottoman Turks in World War I.

[muldoon]

you have not shown one case where a person is able to tell past details and past events with complete accuracy of a complete strangers life, by one sentimental valued item, these are different kinds of test, they were not the same, not even close,

Without being a proper test environment, you've shown and proven nothing as well.

There's millions of $$ in prizes available to anyone able to prove actual psychic ability (even your example)

Yet the prizes go unclaimed.

[brainfreeze]

Without being a proper test environment, you've shown and proven nothing as well.

There's millions of $$ in prizes available to anyone able to prove actual psychic ability (even your example)

Yet the prizes go unclaimed.

Psychic ability ? .. She doesn't have a crystal ball, sit you down and tell you about your love life, finances, and send u off with powerball numbers, better off with a fortune cookie then paying ms. Cleo getting scammed... No this is different, 1. She never has visions of people's prosperity and so fourth, it's usual an event that took place in the individuals life, and she's able to gather details by a particular thing or item. ...say u have a small scar on your forehead, randomly she is able to tell the individual where the scar came from, how it was done, and how old they were when they had done it, NOT EVERYBODY, random ... That's how it comes to her, she will be walking n the mall or whatever see a woman with a cross, randomly she will get the vision on how old she was, where she was, who gave it, and maybe even a few words that were said... So it's not ms. Cleo's psychic ability type of stuff... Different completely different.. These things she's seeing are sentimental to the individual ... and she let's them know... God loves them, most are christian by the way..

[TheAntFather]

If there is a god, which I doubt. He made heaven and hell or whatever. He can see the future.etc. He created Billions of people knowing full dam well the majority is going to die and rot in hell supposedly. If this is true; we're talking about the mass murder of Billions of people. This is worse than the holocaust. I would never want to serve or even be associated with a god or person like this. This person would be the core of pure evil.

I for one, would rather believe in life on other planets more advanced than us, than a god of pure evil. There are over 200,000 stars in our milky way galaxy alone. There are over 100,000 galaxies. Scientists say there are 40 Billion earth size planets in habitable zones within the milky way galaxy alone. There are more stars in the universe then there are dust and sand in all the beaches combined on planet earth.

I remember growing up in Houston. My parents would take me (force me against my will) to Lakewood church in the 80's and 90's before they blew up and become famous. John Osteen was the pastor, his sons were there listening to him and learning from him; including Joel Osteen. They would dance and sing and hop up and down to music praising god or jesus; all the people in the church would do this too. I'd just sit there with my hand in my face because I knew it was all BS. I felt like a fkin fish out of water. It was an embarrassment to be a part of that. Then they would get these big white buckets and pass them around for tiding (Robbing people of their money) and people would put money or checks in an envelope and give it to the church. My idiot parents would put a $300 check every week into this white bucket!! I was like..are you fkin serious? Are you fkin kidding me now? While I'm needing new shoes and clothes..or they can be saving for my college tuition. NOOO..they give it to this scumbag church and this shit almost runied my life. Understand, I was a teenager at the time and I needed a little help from the family. But, NOPE..all the expendable money went to INVISIBLE MAN. I'm glad when I grew up and moved out the house at 18; I told myself I would never put myself in a position like that again where I was around brain washed fools hopping up and down for no reason. I'm 34 now and have never since stepped in or near a church and never plan to. Good Riddance.

[muldoon]

If there is a god, which I doubt. He made heaven and hell or whatever. He can see the future.etc.

The bible says to forgive your enemies.

Unless you piss off God. Then you suffer in hell for eternity.

Forgiveness is not for the grand poo-bah.

[brainfreeze]

If there is a god, which I doubt. He made heaven and hell or whatever. He can see the future.etc. He created Billions of people knowing full dam well the majority is going to die and rot in hell supposedly. If this is true; we're talking about the mass murder of Billions of people. This is worse than the holocaust. I would never want to serve or even be associated with a god or person like this. This person would be the core of pure evil.

we all have free choice Ant, and we get to choose if we want to be a wheat or a tare. I don't think heaven and hell is really fully understood. It's complicated thing to talk about, and if we don't have a decent understanding of it, your conclusion is one that could arise. I think conscience evil souls will have there place in a world of torment, rather a lake of fire or however, do I think every single person who didn't accept Christ receive the exact same fate, no.. Scripture doesn't say that, Shiloh ...look that up, pretty interesting, words and translation of ancient hebrew, Shiloh is like a sleep, a in between state of conscienceness, when Lazarus was laying there, everyone told Jesus he was dead, they were all frantic, Jesus told them.. He is just " sleeping ", then He raised Lazarus from the dead...

I for one, would rather believe in life on other planets more advanced than us, than a god of pure evil. There are over 200,000 stars in our milky way galaxy alone. There are over 100,000 galaxies. Scientists say there are 40 Billion earth size planets in habitable zones within the milky way galaxy alone. There are more stars in the universe then there are dust and sand in all the beaches combined on planet earth.

I remember growing up in Houston. My parents would take me (force me against my will) to Lakewood church in the 80's and 90's before they blew up and become famous. John Osteen was the pastor, his sons were there listening to him and learning from him; including Joel Osteen. They would dance and sing and hop up and down to music praising god or jesus; all the people in the church would do this too. I'd just sit there with my hand in my face because I knew it was all BS. I felt like a fkin fish out of water. It was an embarrassment to be a part of that. Then they would get these big white buckets and pass them around for tiding (Robbing people of their money) and people would put money or checks in an envelope and give it to the church. My idiot parents would put a $300 check every week into this white bucket!! I was like..are you fkin serious? Are you fkin kidding me now? While I'm needing new shoes and clothes..or they can be saving for my college tuition. NOOO..they give it to this scumbag church and this shit almost runied my life. Understand, I was a teenager at the time and I needed a little help from the family. But, NOPE..all the expendable money went to INVISIBLE MAN. I'm glad when I grew up and moved out the house at 18; I told myself I would never put myself in a position like that again where I was around brain washed fools hopping up and down for no reason. I'm 34 now and have never since stepped in or near a church and never plan to. Good Riddance.

Well, thank you for sharing, I can relate to it... My grandmother was the same way, but osteen is a prosperity preacher, a lot of the big names are, C. Dollar, osteen, J. Myers... Even t.d jakes, I listen some x to jakes, but ain't giving him a dime, he looks well off. If I want to donate to Africa or whatever I don't need jakes to do it, I will do it on my own, and truthfully there's enough people hurting right here in the USA, don't know why I would want to donate out of country.

but Ant, don't let a first impression or a bad experience hinder you from growth. There will always be scam artist at every turn, but have I asked you for some money... I've been at this over 50 pages, I don't ask for anything, but a open mind and heart.

Bold

[brainfreeze]

The bible says to forgive your enemies.

Unless you piss off God. Then you suffer in hell for eternity.

Forgiveness is not for the grand poo-bah.

Sure it is, you get grace, by faith you can be saved...He forgives, it's a gift, nothing you do or don't do, just by faith alone...

[raydog]

It baffles me raydog, you don't take this more seriously ... You seem to be a smart guy, how are you so quick to pass judgment on such a thing, are you telling me all of these people throughout time, would give their life for a big fable, and they are just to dumb to not know the difference ? Don't underestimate this bud..


In the mid-12th century, the tide began to turn in the Crusades. The Muslim world had become more united under effective leaders such as Saladin, and dissension arose amongst Christian factions in, and concerning, the Holy Land. The Knights Templar were occasionally at odds with the two other Christian military orders, the Knights Hospitaller and the Teutonic Knights, and decades of internecine feuds weakened Christian positions, both politically and militarily. After the Templars were involved in several unsuccessful campaigns, including the pivotal Battle of the Horns of Hattin, Jerusalem was recaptured by Muslim forces under Saladin in 1187. The Crusaders regained the city in 1229, without Templar aid, but held it only briefly. In 1244, the Khwarezmi Turks recaptured Jerusalem, and the city did not return to Western control until 1917 when the British captured it from the Ottoman Turks in World War I.

as dumb as a newborn, yes... thats exactly what im saying... people who dont need proof, will never be able to accept facts... and they are holding us back from learning...

in ancient times, there was no scientific explanation for why things occured...they believed in god because they didnt know any better... cant explain it? must be god... good happens, then it must be god...they didnt have the scientific knowledge and equipment that we have now...

people, as little as a few generations ago, couldnt pass 2nd grade math of today... you are trying to convince me that people from thousands of years ago had more knowledge of the holy power situation? i think you need to logically rethink this ...

again,you and other christians must first take the first step, get your heads out of the sand and accept some basic facts...besides the ridiculous contradictions and awful morals those in the bible possessed , the fables/miracles, are all either scientifically explained or scientifically rendered completely impossible... and therefore should be considered fiction..

any comments about why scripture is cherry picked for church services and therefore the vast, almost complete majority of christians never know about the awful immoral acts god performs, agrees with and pressures others to perform? its written in holy scripture, so why is it never mentioned? because you cant brainwash those who have too many questions... its really a very simple formula

[Triple_D_Bet]

Why can it not be possible that these well understood brain mechanisms are not only created by God and used by God, but also exploited by man and the Deceiver?

Could you be exploiting our knowledge of them to claim there is no God or does it really prove there is no God?

"You gotta serve somebody."

Why can't all this stuff that science has "figured out" still be God created stuff?

Are you saying you don't recognize that there is both good and evil in the world and that the two are constantly at odds?

Or is your framework of good, evil and morality simply one of pure random chance?

You really don't have to answer any of these, they are at a root level of understanding. These are simply offered for everyone's consideration, something to think about.



Sup Mr. Freeze?

You could of course say that God created all these mechanisms and allowed them to proceed...but why would you, when there's no evidence to support it, or reason for it, or in many cases, evidence that this world was designed in any way we'd see as logical? It's a bit like saying "Apples are red because the skin of an apple reflects a certain wave of photons, which are then carried in buckets by invisible fairies to my eyeballs and send electrical signals to my brain"; same predictive power, but no real reason to add the bit about fairies. Adding superfluous information that is unfalsifiable doesn't serve any purpose.

What we consider good and evil are usually just altruism and self-concern, common animal behaviors filtered through our evolving social standards.

You've shown in one case, where a scientist was able to make people hear a voice or feel something behind them ...artificially, you have not shown one case where a person is able to tell past details and past events with complete accuracy of a complete strangers life, by one sentimental valued item, these are different kinds of test, they were not the same, not even close,

And as for a prophecy, how about Israel being a powerful nation, .. A group of people that are no more then 12 million, holding there own as a great nation... Prophecy fulfilled, and to say that shooting darts wouldn't you pick a nation like china with billions of people to be a great nation...why pick a very small amount of people that were scattered amongst the globe ?

You haven't shown any examples of being able to do so either, except your own unscientific, unverified recollection. However, countless people have described or claimed to witness similar things, only to be shown to be exhibiting the cognitive biases that I've described. Those biases are repeatable and hard, cold facts; the causes of them, such as thinking you're psychic due to confirmation bias, is likewise predictable.

If I ask you to pick a card and guess it's the Ace of hearts, there's about a 2% chance I'm right; would you consider me a prohpet, or simply a lucky guesser? Make the prophecy vaguer than that (these guys will go on to be better than they are now in the future), and it's a pretty safe "prophecy"

[brainfreeze]

You could of course say that God created all these mechanisms and allowed them to proceed...but why would you, when there's no evidence to support it, or reason for it, or in many cases, evidence that this world was designed in any way we'd see as logical? It's a bit like saying "Apples are red because the skin of an apple reflects a certain wave of photons, which are then carried in buckets by invisible fairies to my eyeballs and send electrical signals to my brain"; same predictive power, but no real reason to add the bit about fairies. Adding superfluous information that is unfalsifiable doesn't serve any purpose.

What we consider good and evil are usually just altruism and self-concern, common animal behaviors filtered through our evolving social standards.

See, this is where we really split off in discussion, because your able to believe we evolved from animal, that we are beast, no right and wrong, no evil and good, no morals, just survival ... If you come in between a lion and his lunch I assure no sympathy or emotion will be granted, it's over, we will be desert... A human on the other hand, will help you, feed you, care, love,


You haven't shown any examples of being able to do so either, except your own unscientific, unverified recollection. However, countless people have described or claimed to witness similar things, only to be shown to be exhibiting the cognitive biases that I've described. Those biases are repeatable and hard, cold facts; the causes of them, such as thinking you're psychic due to confirmation bias, is likewise predictable.

I have witnesses and even have a person that's very intelligent that will tell you exactly what happens, and if necessary I will prove it to recon1 by letting him speak with this person " certified credentials P.H.D " who's had the encounter. I don't know what this would do, if this will bring more trust to the situation, but ....why would I lie ? What do I have to gain ?

If I ask you to pick a card and guess it's the Ace of hearts, there's about a 2% chance I'm right; would you consider me a prohpet, or simply a lucky guesser? Make the prophecy vaguer than that (these guys will go on to be better than they are now in the future), and it's a pretty safe "prophecy"

It's not the same trip, I just don't think your getting it. She doesn't even want to do it, some pressure her for more, and she really doesn't like it, she gets set visions and that's it.. I have no video of aparitions in the sky or my overnight lifestyle change...tho I should have on the latter, but this is something that's constant and she does it all the time, at least 30 to 40 times ...that I'm aware of..stuffs no joke or con bud..

Bold

[KVB]

lol at Triple D, I don't even know where to begin. An education in science, or an education in theology.

I suppose you don't think evolution and the bible can exist together.

The moment you stop trying to pit science, which is indeed valid, against God, you just may see how both could possibly work together.

I know many scientists and doctors that have a core belief in a supreme being. They've recognized when not to lean upon their own understanding.

Also, this idea I keep reading that because the world isn't exactly how one would have it if one were God, then it is proof there is no God. It really just sounds like a whole lot of "why" and "how" questions being avoided by the posters. Tough questions indeed.

Finally, there are many, many people out there that question these assertions that there is no evidence of God. Many.

Folks would do well to remember that there is much out there we can't see or detect. If there's anything to learn from science; it is that to rule them out of existing would be wrong.

About the fairies...I once saw an electron microscope image of a tiny parasite, and on that parasite's leg was another creature...too small for a lot of detail, but enough to see.

Amazing what we don't know and is yet to be discovered.

A wise man once said, we can continue this conversation after we die.

[brainfreeze]

as dumb as a newborn, yes... thats exactly what im saying... people who dont need proof, will never be able to accept facts... and they are holding us back from learning...

in ancient times, there was no scientific explanation for why things occured...they believed in god because they didnt know any better... cant explain it? must be god... good happens, then it must be god...they didnt have the scientific knowledge and equipment that we have now...

people, as little as a few generations ago, couldnt pass 2nd grade math of today... you are trying to convince me that people from thousands of years ago had more knowledge of the holy power situation? i think you need to logically rethink this ...

again,you and other christians must first take the first step, get your heads out of the sand and accept some basic facts...besides the ridiculous contradictions and awful morals those in the bible possessed , the fables/miracles, are all either scientifically explained or scientifically rendered completely impossible... and therefore should be considered fiction..

any comments about why scripture is cherry picked for church services and therefore the vast, almost complete majority of christians never know about the awful immoral acts god performs, agrees with and pressures others to perform? its written in holy scripture, so why is it never mentioned? because you cant brainwash those who have too many questions... its really a very simple formula

People were not just dumb through time bud... Maybe you haven't seen the Baghdad battery, or the mechanism that was built before the time of Christ. Here's some links..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_Device

We still can't duplicate and understand how to build structures of times pass with the stone that was used right outside of Jerusalem or the ones in Peru or Egypt .. People at the top through times past were not dumb people raydog

[brainfreeze]

lol at Triple D, I don't even know where to begin. An education in science, or an education in theology.

I suppose you don't think evolution and the bible can exist together.

The moment you stop trying to pit science, which is indeed valid, against God, you just may see how both could possibly work together.

I know many scientists and doctors that have a core belief in a supreme being. They've recognized when not to lean upon their own understanding.

Also, this idea I keep reading that because the world isn't exactly how one would have it if one were God, then it is proof there is no God. It really just sounds like a whole lot of "why" and "how" questions being avoided by the posters. Tough questions indeed.

Finally, there are many, many people out there that question these assertions that there is no evidence of God. Many.

Folks would do well to remember that there is much out there we can't see or detect. If there's anything to learn from science; it is that to rule them out of existing would be wrong.

About the fairies...I once saw an electron microscope image of a tiny parasite, and on that parasite's leg was another creature...too small for a lot of detail, but enough to see.

Amazing what we don't know and is yet to be discovered.

A wise man once said, we can continue this conversation after we die.

KVB, they can co-exist on the fact there is a micro evolution that does take place, verifiable and observable to see mutations and so fourth in short periods of time. But the way Evolution is taught today in schools... No way, it's a religion

[brainfreeze]

Only thing Darwin gave us was eugenics which led to gas chambers..

http://zthoughtcriminal.blogspot.com/2013/06/charles-darwin-and-francis-galton.html

https://answersingenesis.org/charles-darwin/racism/darwinism-and-the-nazi-race-holocaust/

careful on philosophy and what you believe.. Bad things can come about,

[raydog]

People were not just dumb through time bud... Maybe you haven't seen the Baghdad battery, or the mechanism that was built before the time of Christ. Here's some links..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_Device

We still can't duplicate and understand how to build structures of times pass with the stone that was used right outside of Jerusalem or the ones in Peru or Egypt .. People at the top through times past were not dumb people raydog

a FEW people werent dumb , for that time.. you had a handful of smart guys surrounded by millions of illiterates ... we know how the structures were built.. we know how stones were moved.. we know it took over 100k workers and over 20years (actually most think much more) to build the great pyramid ... not everyone was dumb, no, but you cant even possibly begin to compare intelligence from then and now.

people had no idea except for what they were told.. just like children, all they knew to believe is what they were threatened with or because there was no way to otherwise prove things,scientifically, they believed that everything thay couldnt be explain, must be the work of god... Dumb

again, you just dont accept the logical facts... all miracles/fables explained or debunked...

you still havent touched on the brutal scriptures discussing the killing/stoning/slavery/raping women and daughters/other shitty treatment of women etc etc etc. that isnt covered in church.. if you believe in the bible, why are these scriptures not covered as thorough as as the ones that depict the good in god?

[Bostongambler]

I hope to meet him one day

[raydog]

^^^ why? according to scripture, he flooded the world and killed everyone (except moses andhis fam) because he was unhappy with a few... he is good with slavery, rape, molestation and killing the innocent... in order to believe in scripture, you have to have to be mentally fukked by all the brainwashing and fear of hell... stop ignoring facts that debunk the bible ... is a proven book of fiction

as i debated with brainfreeze before, god said noone would ever live passed 120yrs old... someone already has, therefore debunking that the word of god, as dictated in the bible, is law of the universe... he argued that it was only 1 person.. it only takes 1 person to debunk the 120yr rule and debunk the theory that a god has control over everything... again, logic and facts go overlooked in order to keep the faith... facts always outweigh faith

[brainfreeze]

a FEW people werent dumb , for that time.. you had a handful of smart guys surrounded by millions of illiterates ... we know how the structures were built.. we know how stones were moved.. we know it took over 100k workers and over 20years (actually most think much more) to build the great pyramid ... not everyone was dumb, no, but you cant even possibly begin to compare intelligence from then and now.

people had no idea except for what they were told.. just like children, all they knew to believe is what they were threatened with or because there was no way to otherwise prove things,scientifically, they believed that everything thay couldnt be explain, must be the work of god... Dumb

again, you just dont accept the logical facts... all miracles/fables explained or debunked...

you still havent touched on the brutal scriptures discussing the killing/stoning/slavery/raping women and daughters/other shitty treatment of women etc etc etc. that isnt covered in church.. if you believe in the bible, why are these scriptures not covered as thorough as as the ones that depict the good in god?

I wasn't just talking pyramids... Even though I question the official story of how they were built ..60 million stones in hundred years, means non stop 24/7 for a hundred years with whatever thin ropes and tools they had. What about 1000 ton stones though, outside of Lebanon that we still couldn't move today..

http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/ancientman/1057.html

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bHSbVXW3O9g

and the reason you don't hear to much about the Old Testament ..is because the New Testament of Christ has come. The old was of the flesh and by the law, the new is of the Spirit and our sins are covered by Christ, those who live by the old are still under the law... Read a lot of what Paul wrote raydog..

[brainfreeze]

^^^ why? according to scripture, he flooded the world and killed everyone (except moses andhis fam) because he was unhappy with a few... he is good with slavery, rape, molestation and killing the innocent... in order to believe in scripture, you have to have to be mentally fukked by all the brainwashing and fear of hell... stop ignoring facts that debunk the bible ... is a proven book of fiction

as i debated with brainfreeze before, god said noone would ever live passed 120yrs old... someone already has, therefore debunking that the word of god, as dictated in the bible, is law of the universe... he argued that it was only 1 person.. it only takes 1 person to debunk the 120yr rule and debunk the theory that a god has control over everything... again, logic and facts go overlooked in order to keep the faith... facts always outweigh faith

For one it was Noah .. Noah and his family escaped the flood, and it wasn't a few .. It was the majority that displeased God. Everything in that first paragraph is 100% false... Why would you say he's good with those things ? Ever heard of the commandments ?

now for the 1 person that lived to see 120 ...she didn't make it to her 130s therefore it's legitimate, this was said thousands of years ago and Gods Word and promises hold true...

[brainfreeze]

Here's the law of the old testament ... All 613 of them

http://www.bibleheadquarters.org/THE613LAWSoftheOLDTESTAMENT.html

No one can live by the law, we would all be doomed, beautiful thing we have Christ

[raydog]

my bad, noah...damn i do that all the time..sorry...

and everything in my first para is 100% true and written in the bible, which i thought you claimed to have read front to back..obviously, you havent, or i am mistaken about you reading it all...

god said 120yrs... not 120-129yrs.. you are in complete denial of the truth, my man... christians need to stop making excuses for examples when your god and the bibles word is proven false... you are only lying to yourself

[brainfreeze]

my bad, noah...damn i do that all the time..sorry...

and everything in my first para is 100% true and written in the bible, which i thought you claimed to have read front to back..obviously, you havent, or i am mistaken about you reading it all...

god said 120yrs... not 120-129yrs.. you are in complete denial of the truth, my man... christians need to stop making excuses for examples when your god and the bibles word is proven false... you are only lying to yourself

The commandments He gave Moses prove you wrong... Also He didn't have to say 120-129 ..saying no one to live past the 120's is enough.

[Snowball]

my bad, noah...damn i do that all the time..sorry...

and everything in my first para is 100% true and written in the bible, which i thought you claimed to have read front to back..obviously, you havent, or i am mistaken about you reading it all...

god said 120yrs... not 120-129yrs.. you are in complete denial of the truth, my man... christians need to stop making excuses for examples when your god and the bibles word is proven false... you are only lying to yourself

Titus 1:14-16

Not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men, who turn themselves away from the truth. All things are clean to the clean: but to them that are defiled, and to unbelievers, nothing is clean: but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess that they know God: but in their works they deny him; being abominable, and incredulous, and to every good work reprobate.

[Triple_D_Bet]

People were not just dumb through time bud... Maybe you haven't seen the Baghdad battery, or the mechanism that was built before the time of Christ. Here's some links..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baghdad_Battery

Bold

The credentials of a witness aren't what proves something; a falsifiable experiment is. The flaws in human perception are independent of how well educated someone is.

lol at Triple D, I don't even know where to begin. An education in science, or an education in theology.

I suppose you don't think evolution and the bible can exist together.

The moment you stop trying to pit science, which is indeed valid, against God, you just may see how both could possibly work together.

I know many scientists and doctors that have a core belief in a supreme being. They've recognized when not to lean upon their own understanding.

Also, this idea I keep reading that because the world isn't exactly how one would have it if one were God, then it is proof there is no God. It really just sounds like a whole lot of "why" and "how" questions being avoided by the posters. Tough questions indeed.

Finally, there are many, many people out there that question these assertions that there is no evidence of God. Many.

Folks would do well to remember that there is much out there we can't see or detect. If there's anything to learn from science; it is that to rule them out of existing would be wrong.

About the fairies...I once saw an electron microscope image of a tiny parasite, and on that parasite's leg was another creature...too small for a lot of detail, but enough to see.

Amazing what we don't know and is yet to be discovered.

A wise man once said, we can continue this conversation after we die.

The literal interpretation of the bible can't exist along with current scientific knowledge, no. If you bend over backwards to treat some parts as literal while insisting inaccuracies are "metaphors", than you can believe in whatever you want.

Many people believe many things, but reality isn't concerned with their beliefs. If they can't prove their beliefs are based in reality, there's no particular reason to believe in them.

The world not being optimally designed isn't proof against a God; it's merely one of many considerations that suggest there isn't one. You can't disprove a concept like God when his very existence is defined as unfalsifiable, but when a belief in god shows no predictive power or evidence to support it, no reason to assume he exists.

Lot of stuff yet to learn; perhaps it's telling that when we want to learn things about reality, we turn to science, instead of trying to re-interpret a millennia-old reboot of even older myths?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_Device

We still can't duplicate and understand how to build structures of times pass with the stone that was used right outside of Jerusalem or the ones in Peru or Egypt .. People at the top through times past were not dumb people raydog

People's intelligence in one area isn't always indicative of intelligence in other areas; oddly enough, that's yet another assumption the human brain tends to make, and why people thing arguments from authority are meaningful. By the way, many plausible theories have been proposed for how some of the ancient stone structures could have been built with relatively modest resources readily available back then.

KVB, they can co-exist on the fact there is a micro evolution that does take place, verifiable and observable to see mutations and so fourth in short periods of time. But the way Evolution is taught today in schools... No way, it's a religion

The "micro-evolution" concept is just something dreamed up by creationists when the amount of evidence stacking up against them became overwhelming. The concept itself makes no sense; a bit like believing that stairs can be used to climb heights, but insisting that staircases can never be higher than 3 steps...no reason for the artificial limit given, except that to acknowledge the mechanism wasn't limited would interfere with what the mythology they've assumed to be true

Here's the law of the old testament ... All 613 of them

http://www.bibleheadquarters.org/THE613LAWSoftheOLDTESTAMENT.html

No one can live by the law, we would all be doomed, beautiful thing we have Christ