WNBA Interview with Right Angle Sports

**Johnny 55** · 05-17-10, 04:40 PM

A large sample size, 94 picks is not a large sample size. Look at his record the previous year. Look at his record in college hoops and college football, large sample size he will make you money, all the facts are documented, just understand basic math. Also, he did make money in WNBA last year for those of us that played the second half plays which hit at a nice rate, in college hoop last year it was 62%.

**Bluehorseshoe** · 05-17-10, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by Johnny 55

A large sample size, 94 picks is not a large sample size. Look at his record the previous year. Look at his record in college hoops and college football, large sample size he will make you money, all the facts are documented, just understand basic math. Also, he did make money in WNBA last year for those of us that played the second half plays which hit at a nice rate, in college hoop last year it was 62%.

Great, but we're not talking about college hoops, college football or his second half plays. We're discussing his pay WNBA plays specifically.

The guy is very good in other areas.+15.50 units over two seasons doesn't make him a "great" WNBA handicapper.

**durito** · 05-17-10, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

Great, but we're not talking about college hoops, college football or his second half plays. We're discussing his pay WNBA plays specifically.

The guy is very good in other areas.+15.50 units over two seasons doesn't make him a "great" WNBA handicapper.

you aren't very bright are you?

**Bluehorseshoe** · 05-17-10, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by durito

you aren't very bright are you?

Enlighten me.

**sweetjones55** · 05-17-10, 05:46 PM

Originally posted by Johnny 55

People are so painfully clueless in this thread it is embarassment to the human race. Give RAS any large sample size and he will make you money. If you beat the closing line, you will win money long term, sports betting 101.

I think it's a bit of a different situation with RAS and the WNBA in terms of this. Every single play that RAS puts out automatically moves the line two-three points, at least it did last year.

**durito** · 05-17-10, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by sweetjones55

I think it's a bit of a different situation with RAS and the WNBA in terms of this. Every single play that RAS puts out automatically moves the line two-three points, at least it did last year.

They move for a reason. If other sharp players disagree they will get bet back.

**RoagBettor** · 05-17-10, 07:06 PM

RAS isn't the only service moving lines

**jjgold** · 05-17-10, 07:06 PM

solid interview!!!

**SexyMit** · 05-17-10, 09:01 PM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

But he didn't over the course of an entire WNBA season.

Thank You finally someone else gets it. That's not the best part after his not so good year last year, he almost doubled his price... That was the best part, after losing money last year for his members he raises his prices.

**HoulihansTX** · 05-17-10, 09:06 PM

I think people are mad that RAS is getting the free advertisement that they want.

**RoagBettor** · 05-17-10, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by HoulihansTX

I think people are mad that RAS is getting the free advertisement that they want.

By the end of this WNBA season everyone will know who the real WNBA experts are

**Extra Innings** · 05-17-10, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by HoulihansTX

I think people are mad that RAS is getting the free advertisement that they want.

They advertise with SBR....it's a circle jerk

**Edward-RAS** · 05-17-10, 09:51 PM

Originally posted by Extra Innings

They advertise with SBR....it's a circle jerk

We do not advertise with SBR and I do not know where all of this animosity is coming from. No one at HoopsEdge/RAS intends any disrespect to any other handicapping service who is taking on the WNBA or any other sport for that matter. We wish everyone the best of luck.

The best indicators of true edge are past results and closing line value. Over the past three years in CBB, CFB, and WNBA, our indicators compare favorably with just about any handicapping service out there. We have hit 57.11% in all three sports combined over a 1546 play sample size and our closing line value is second to none.

In the WNBA alone we have hit 56.11% over a 180 play sample size now covering 2+ seasons.

There may be people in this thread who do not consider 56-57% to be "great" and I know that many of the recreational bettors do not place much importance on "closing line value" but those who bet big money and take a serious long term approach very much do. That is why our WNBA plays are still by far the most influential in the market. As a previous posted said, the lines move for a reason.

There are many different business models that services use, and there are many different criterias that people use when selecting a sports handicapping service to follow. We have our own philosophy as to what is right for us.

**HoulihansTX** · 05-17-10, 10:01 PM

RAS should be happy about the feedback. It just means other touts/services feel threatened by you.

**Extra Innings** · 05-17-10, 10:29 PM

Originally posted by Edward-RAS

We do not advertise with SBR and I do not know where all of this animosity is coming from. No one at HoopsEdge/RAS intends any disrespect to any other handicapping service who is taking on the WNBA or any other sport for that matter. We wish everyone the best of luck.

The best indicators of true edge are past results and closing line value. Over the past three years in CBB, CFB, and WNBA, our indicators compare favorably with just about any handicapping service out there. We have hit 57.11% in all three sports combined over a 1546 play sample size and our closing line value is second to none.

In the WNBA alone we have hit 56.11% over a 180 play sample size now covering 2+ seasons.

There may be people in this thread who do not consider 56-57% to be "great" and I know that many of the recreational bettors do not place much importance on "closing line value" but those who bet big money and take a serious long term approach very much do. That is why our WNBA plays are still by far the most influential in the market. As a previous posted said, the lines move for a reason.

There are many different business models that services use, and there are many different criterias that people use when selecting a sports handicapping service to follow. We have our own philosophy as to what is right for us.

My apologies....at one time you folks had a big presence in the handicapper's section of the forum...thank you for the correction

**PeteRose9412** · 05-17-10, 10:59 PM

RAS is an excellent service, I think the challenge with the wnba is the fact that there are only 10-12 clubs which allows the odds makers to have a good grasp on every team. I followed these games closely last year and believe me when I say the lines were very tight. College basketball and football has literally 100's of teams.

**lakerboy** · 05-18-10, 12:50 AM

Originally posted by Edward-RAS

We do not advertise with SBR and I do not know where all of this animosity is coming from. No one at HoopsEdge/RAS intends any disrespect to any other handicapping service who is taking on the WNBA or any other sport for that matter. We wish everyone the best of luck.

The best indicators of true edge are past results and closing line value. Over the past three years in CBB, CFB, and WNBA, our indicators compare favorably with just about any handicapping service out there. We have hit 57.11% in all three sports combined over a 1546 play sample size and our closing line value is second to none.

In the WNBA alone we have hit 56.11% over a 180 play sample size now covering 2+ seasons.

There may be people in this thread who do not consider 56-57% to be "great" and I know that many of the recreational bettors do not place much importance on "closing line value" but those who bet big money and take a serious long term approach very much do. That is why our WNBA plays are still by far the most influential in the market. As a previous posted said, the lines move for a reason.

There are many different business models that services use, and there are many different criterias that people use when selecting a sports handicapping service to follow. We have our own philosophy as to what is right for us.

$2 bettors never understand this.

**Bluehorseshoe** · 05-18-10, 09:12 AM

Originally posted by lakerboy

$2 bettors never understand this.

And you do understand the market in the WNBA is nowhere near what it is on CBB and CFF?

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

And you do understand the market in the WNBA is nowhere near what it is on CBB and CFF?

WNBA limits at major online sportsbooks will surprise a lot of people.

You can probably bet more on a CBB side than a WNBA side, but you can probably bet more on a WNBA total than a CBB total.

**Bluehorseshoe** · 05-18-10, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by Edward-RAS

WNBA limits at major online sportsbooks will surprise a lot of people. You can probably bet more on a CBB side than a WNBA side, but you can probably bet more on a WNBA total than a CBB total.

And the reason for that is, books are more afraid of getting pounded on a CBB total then a WNBA total. You just have to look at your own record between the two to see where the bigger risk is for the books.

On top of it, how many customers do you have for WNBA compared to CBB? A 1/5th of your guys?

**Brock Landers** · 05-18-10, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by Edward-RAS

WNBA limits at major online sportsbooks will surprise a lot of people.

You can probably bet more on a CBB side than a WNBA side, but you can probably bet more on a WNBA total than a CBB total.

The broads should be setting up plays themselves...score more off a few games than the whole season of beaver ball

**RonMexico** · 05-18-10, 11:59 AM

Not going to buy the service, but it's nice getting the 2H plays from betting talk

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

And the reason for that is, books are more afraid of getting pounded on a CBB total then a WNBA total. You just have to look at your own record between the two to see where the bigger risk is for the books.

There is no question that CBB totals provide more volume and edge than WNBA totals, but my response was to your assertion that "the market in the WNBA is nowhere near what it is on CBB", when in fact the betting limits at major sportsbooks are fairly comparable.

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 12:02 PM

Originally posted by RonMexico

Not going to buy the service, but it's nice getting the 2H plays from betting talk

I'm glad you brought that up. While the price of this year's service is targetted at larger ($250 or more) bettors, we will be posting second half plays at the top of the BT forum all season long. This is a great way for smaller and beginning bettors to follow along and build their bankroll.

**Bluehorseshoe** · 05-18-10, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Edward-RAS

There is no question that CBB totals provide more volume and edge than WNBA totals, but my response was to your assertion that "the market in the WNBA is nowhere near what it is on CBB", when in fact the betting limits at major sportsbooks are fairly comparable.

But the second point I made it that post is, how many people are playing the WNBA compared to CBB? How many customers do you have in comparison?

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

But the second point I made it that post is, how many people are playing the WNBA compared to CBB? How many customers do you have in comparison?

Sorry, I am not going to disclose any customer information.

Clearly there is far more interest in CBB than there is WNBA, but that in part is what makes it more of an attractive market. Not many people are immersing themselves in to this league. Not many people actually watch the games. Most of the influential betting groups do not pay any attention to it. There are no mainstream power ratings. So even though it is only a 12 team league, you can still find solid edges if you have the talent, passion, time, and work ethic.

**RoagBettor** · 05-18-10, 12:21 PM

I don't think anyone is trying to attack Ed's service as a WHOLE. Clearly he has a good and reputable service, and for the long-term customer who can manage their money, he's going to make them money.

The question is who is the best in WNBA and offers the most value. The jury is still out on that one, and by the end of this season we'll know for certain.

Good luck to all.

**SexyMit** · 05-18-10, 01:12 PM

My other point, it seems to me like all your worried about is beating the closing number. That's always a good thing when you win enough games to make money... You keep going off topic. NOONE is asking about all these other sports you beat closing numbers at... Congrats on beating them. Wnba you beat them cause the line moves after you release the line, so of course you beat the closing line. You have to win enough games to make your 800 dollar charge worth it. You can beat EVERY closing line but if you finish with Negative units, all that beating the closing line don't mean SH*T! I wish you luck this year...

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by SexyMit

My other point, it seems to me like all your worried about is beating the closing number. That's always a good thing when you win enough games to make money... You keep going off topic. NOONE is asking about all these other sports you beat closing numbers at... Congrats on beating them. Wnba you beat them cause the line moves after you release the line, so of course you beat the closing line. You have to win enough games to make your 800 dollar charge worth it. You can beat EVERY closing line but if you finish with Negative units, all that beating the closing line don't mean SH*T! I wish you luck this year...

The concept of closing line value being a strong indicator of long term success is not up for debate.

Sportsbooks use it to determine sharp action. Professional bettors use it to identify winning handicappers.

**RoagBettor** · 05-18-10, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by Edward-RAS

The concept of closing line value being a strong indicator of long term success is not up for debate.

Sportsbooks use it to determine sharp action. Professional bettors use it to identify winning handicappers.

Closing line value is but one variable, and yes it is a strong indicator of long term success particularly for the major sports. As your performance in the WNBA last season proved, it's not THE determining factor of success.

But Ed, here is what you apparently keep missing the point on: the bottom line for any successful handicapper is did your clients make any money? There are professional cappers with sub-.500 records who are laughing all the way to their bank (along with their clients).

We could debate this until the end of the season, and I think that's a good time to pick it up again, after the records have been completed.

Best of luck.

**Bluehorseshoe** · 05-18-10, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by Edward-RAS

The concept of closing line value being a strong indicator of long term success is not up for debate. Sportsbooks use it to determine sharp action. Professional bettors use it to identify winning handicappers.

That is very deceptive to apply that definition to what you're doing. You're a handicapping service, with a good amount of followers, (who entail) move the line themselves. You're not a single person beating the closing line in a big market.

**SexyMit** · 05-18-10, 01:50 PM

Originally posted by RoagBettor

Closing line value is but one variable, and yes it is a strong indicator of long term success particularly for the major sports. As your performance in the WNBA last season proved, it's not THE determining factor of success.

But Ed, here is what you apparently keep missing the point on: the bottom line for any successful handicapper is did your clients make any money? There are professional cappers with sub-.500 records who are laughing all the way to their bank (along with their clients).

We could debate this until the end of the season, and I think that's a good time to pick it up again, after the records have been completed.

Best of luck.

Yes we will continue this at the end of the year. And once we find out if your clients actually made money. GL to you this up and coming Wnba season.

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by RoagBettor

Closing line value is but one variable, and yes it is a strong indicator of long term success particularly for the major sports. As your performance in the WNBA last season proved, it's not THE determining factor of success.

But Ed, here is what you apparently keep missing the point on: the bottom line for any successful handicapper is did your clients make any money? There are professional cappers with sub-.500 records who are laughing all the way to their bank (along with their clients).

We could debate this until the end of the season, and I think that's a good time to pick it up again, after the records have been completed.

Best of luck.

As I wrote in my earlier post, there are many, many criteria used to evaluate sports handicappers. Yes, closing line value is an important tool, but our WNBA plays have also hit over 56% over 2+ seasons (180 plays) since we started the HoopsEdge service, and we have handicapped other sports at a very high level since 1996.

The HoopsEdge service ends after the first 10 weeks of the season, and the WNBA is far from a high volume sport. It would not be wise to look only at what we did in 2009 (48-46) or only what we did in 2008 (50-29). Ultimately, you have to look at the entire body of work to determine the value of a handicapper. This includes past results, closing line value, longevity, release times, use of widely available lines, and responsible marketing, among several other things.

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by SexyMit

Yes we will continue this at the end of the year. And once we find out if your clients actually made money. GL to you this up and coming Wnba season.

There will always be services who have better and worse seasons than us, that is why it is so important to evaluate the entire body of work of a service. Furthermore, it is not always fair to compare results of different services since many use different guidelines pertaining to release times (releasing overnight would have an advantage over releasing on gameday), widely available lines (many use rogue lines), and unit ratings.

Every service targets different types of clients and every client has different interests and needs.

**Edward-RAS** · 05-18-10, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by Bluehorseshoe

That is very deceptive to apply that definition to what you're doing. You're a handicapping service, with a good amount of followers, (who entail) move the line themselves. You're not a single person beating the closing line in a big market.

The WNBA market is not as efficient as the major sports markets, but there are still enough people with money and opinions involved to play against a line move that is perceived to be wrong. Closing line value is not measured by how much lines move right after a play is released, but rather against the actual closing line itself.

The opinion of a respected handicapper is a valid reason for a line to move.