All Youwager and Betpop Issues

[deck5]

Thank you for the update SBR Forum. Like ywpain I have never used a VPN when betting on Betpop. It's just crazy that they are now claiming that one person from some sort of group "has turned" on the others. If Youwager's theory was the case, then why aren't any of us victims complaining about funds being stolen from any other accounts on any other books? In the same time that I was withdrawing from Betpop, I have also withdrawn from other books, both before and after. These other withdrawals were for more than $1k, and some withdrawals were even for $25k. If there was some security issue from my side of this, why didn't this mystery person steal one of those $25k withdrawals? Why would he bother with measly $1k withdrawals? And how did this mystery guy convince Youwager to send more withdrawals than their weekly limit, to multiple accounts?Clearly the person(s) doing this were sloppy in their stealing, as they forgot to change my e-mail back when they changed it on the account (which I found out when Maggie and I were canceling my remaining withdrawals after discovering the theft and requesting new withdrawals, and which Maggie quickly changed but not before I grabbed a screenshot). That same sloppiness resulted in them requesting my withdrawals to the same address they requested ywpain's stolen money to, which Youwager is now trying to claim that he and I made similar bets (which I have no way of verifying but also don't care what bets he made--if they have the best line I imagine a lot of people successfully bet it). So they're trying to fabricate some bogus link between me and him because we were victims of the same Youwager theft?

[puckk]

as of today i think youwager has changed their bitcoin payouts, i had to call and confirm the last 4 digits of the bitcoin address (along with the email confirmation code) from the phone number on record.

they should ask for payout pin instead of password, its there already under settings

[ywpain]

Hi deck5,

We would like to review the software in person with our own senior technical consultant. YouWager has made a tech person available to us who has sent reports and software snapshots, but we need more information. YouWager believes that a group of players, some of whom shared wagers on as much as 50% of the same games at the max limit, were colluding and that one of the individuals may have turned on the others. The frequent use of VPNs and proxies has made the trail tougher to navigate. We take all of the complaints very seriously and while an immediate solution would be preferred, there is much to dig into from account security to everything else.

Once we have gotten more into the forensics and are better able to make a conclusion on where the culpability falls, we will update the forum and the players who have sought our assistance.
.

I can only speak for myself, but I never used a proxy or vpn, I logged in always from the same IP, my home computer.

I can also only guess this, but it seems that myself as the other players were all "sharp" enough to some degree. And that we have access to other places to bet. YouWager doesn't have the best odds 90% of the time on games, so most of my action is placed elsewhere at reduced juice.

However, sometimes, when they are slow to move a line, or they have a very nice underdog price, they do have best price. So that is when I would bet with youwager.

Again, just guessing, but if deck5 and fossilman were doing similar things, then some of our bets might of matched up. Even though I can assure you that I have no connection to these two guys, or anyone else with a youwager account.

[SBR Forum]

I don't understand why people immediately jump to the conclusion that the existence of a conflict of interest means that SBR has nothing to lose by defending the book. SBR has a reputation to uphold, and I imagine doesn't just give out ratings related to the amount of money that a book pays them for advertising. If they did that, they wouldn't have much of a reputation.

In fact, I'd argue the opposite--that any time SBR is shown to have resolved a player/sportsbook dispute in favor of the player, it improves it's reputation amongst consumers, more people put more trust in the ratings on THIS site, increasing SBR's value, and books are inclined to pay more for advertising here.

I don't expect SBR to immediately lower the rating of a book prior to the conclusion of an investigation, even though in this case I'm one of the ones getting screwed currently. Hopefully this is being looked into.

The last time I spoke with Betpop customer service I was again told that my account is closed, my funds confiscated and that the decision is "final" and nothing more is being done on their end. Hopefully the person I talked to wasn't privy to what was actually taking place with SBR. This makes no sense to me. First, they sent my withdrawals to the wrong bitcoin address. Then I re-requested five withdrawals for my remaining balance. They sent three of these, but now refuse to send the final two. Bad enough that they sent withdrawals to some errant address, but then they confiscate my funds to add insult to injury.

With all of these complaints piling up, it's clear something is going on over there. I hope this will get resolved and that the resolution will come soon.

Hi deck5,

We appreciate your input. We are actively discussing these complaints with YouWager. We have been shown database backups and walked through the process from payout request to completion, and have listened to phone recordings of players confirming with the two-factor code the bitcoin requests.

We would like to review the software in person with our own senior technical consultant. YouWager has made a tech person available to us who has sent reports and software snapshots, but we need more information. YouWager believes that a group of players, some of whom shared wagers on as much as 50% of the same games at the max limit, were colluding and that one of the individuals may have turned on the others. The frequent use of VPNs and proxies has made the trail tougher to navigate. We take all of the complaints very seriously and while an immediate solution would be preferred, there is much to dig into from account security to everything else.

Once we have gotten more into the forensics and are better able to make a conclusion on where the culpability falls, we will update the forum and the players who have sought our assistance.

as of today i think youwager has changed their bitcoin payouts, i had to call and confirm the last 4 digits of the bitcoin address (along with the email confirmation code) from the phone number on record.

This is a good and necessary step. We noticed that the payment address entered online was not part of the body of the confirmation email so players would not realize if they had copy/pasted the wrong address.

[Techman1236]

YouWager is stealing the money back. I will never use them. I hope you guys get your money. They love to collect but hate to pay.

[milwaukee mike]

I could totally see that happening.

The main problem with Youwager bitcoin payouts is there's no transparency as to what the BTC address you used. They should keep a visible record of it on the payout request page.

5dimes and DSI make you confirm your withdrawal request by sending the btc address by email from the account you registered with. At least that would remove any confusion or doubt about employees swapping in their own email address.

as of today i think youwager has changed their bitcoin payouts, i had to call and confirm the last 4 digits of the bitcoin address (along with the email confirmation code) from the phone number on record.

[holzhaur]

Already sent, Opti.

[deck5]

I don't understand why people immediately jump to the conclusion that the existence of a conflict of interest means that SBR has nothing to lose by defending the book. SBR has a reputation to uphold, and I imagine doesn't just give out ratings related to the amount of money that a book pays them for advertising. If they did that, they wouldn't have much of a reputation.

In fact, I'd argue the opposite--that any time SBR is shown to have resolved a player/sportsbook dispute in favor of the player, it improves it's reputation amongst consumers, more people put more trust in the ratings on THIS site, increasing SBR's value, and books are inclined to pay more for advertising here.

I don't expect SBR to immediately lower the rating of a book prior to the conclusion of an investigation, even though in this case I'm one of the ones getting screwed currently. Hopefully this is being looked into.

The last time I spoke with Betpop customer service I was again told that my account is closed, my funds confiscated and that the decision is "final" and nothing more is being done on their end. Hopefully the person I talked to wasn't privy to what was actually taking place with SBR. This makes no sense to me. First, they sent my withdrawals to the wrong bitcoin address. Then I re-requested five withdrawals for my remaining balance. They sent three of these, but now refuse to send the final two. Bad enough that they sent withdrawals to some errant address, but then they confiscate my funds to add insult to injury.

With all of these complaints piling up, it's clear something is going on over there. I hope this will get resolved and that the resolution will come soon.

[Optional]

@Holzhaur, would you please send in a complaint form with your details too: https://www.sportsbookreview.com/sportsbook-complaint/

[BetBothSides]

I could totally see that happening.

The main problem with Youwager bitcoin payouts is there's no transparency as to what the BTC address you used. They should keep a visible record of it on the payout request page.

5dimes and DSI make you confirm your withdrawal request by sending the btc address by email from the account you registered with. At least that would remove any confusion or doubt about employees swapping in their own email address.

[holzhaur]

YouWager stiffs 33K of bitcoin payouts

My YouWager account was closed in December 2017 with a balance of ~$102,900. Despite my repeated requests to be put on a faster payout plan, they told me that the only option was to call in once per week to have my account temporarily re-enabled, log in to request three bitcoin payouts for $1000 each, call to confirm the payouts, then repeat the process next week. For months, these payouts were sent with no problems, all to the same BTC address that I copy-pasted.

This process became tedious, so I started requesting six payouts per call, then nine. They were still paying out three times per week, but now I had a backlog of pending payouts. In late August, the payments started becoming erratic--sometimes one per week, sometimes two. When I inquired about the change, employees assured me that everything was fine, my account was still showing the correct number of pending payouts, and I was still scheduled to receive my last payout in late November.

I most recently received a payout on November 6, and am still owed ~$32,900. I spoke with three different employees today who confirmed that my account balance is now zero, and their records show I have been paid out completely.

When I asked about my bitcoin payout history, they said that some of the payments they processed were sent to the address I provided, but others were sent to addresses I don't recognize. They claim that I must have either made a mistake inputting the payout address (who could possibly accidentally type a valid BTC address?!) or intentionally requested the payments be sent to different addresses--which is at least plausible even though it is untrue.

My best guess is that someone inside YouWager changed the address for the pending payout requests to his personal wallet, or maybe cancelled my requests and replaced them with his own. I asked the supervisor to investigate the matter internally, but I got the distinct impression that he did not care enough to actually do it.

[ywpain]

Hopefully we will hear news soon Ywpain.

It is taking longer than I expected but you can be certain it will be addressed for sure.

Hi, I understand it might take some time, and i'm not bugging you for any answer or resolution now.

But I was just wondering if you could confirm whether you received my email to: forum@sportsbookreview.com on Monday 3rd December.

It provided the new response from youwager, that they were confiscating my $2K in the account.

I'm concerned whether you got this email or not, because previous email attempts providing information have been rejected by your email server.

[JoeCool20]

Obviously the "new management" at youwager is doing the payouts like "Boss Hogg" used to do on


The dukes of Hazzard.... "One for you, two for me!" LOL


The thing i hate the most is now most people will leave or avoid this S-book, but they will still send their money to another bunch of strangers in a foreign country and "trust" that those strangers won't steal their money like YouWager did!

But whatever you do, DON'T think you can trust some strangers more than some other strangers because they have an "A+" rating on a web site that is being paid to give them the high rating!

[JoeCool20]

How does a book that takes $10K bets but has a $1-2K withdrawal limit have an A rating? Something stinks at youwager.

LOL Because the ratings aren't based on which S-books are least likely to cheat a player.


The ratings are based on which S-books pay the most to be given the high rating!

[dynamite140]

Deleted a few pm's in my inbox.

[milwaukee mike]

dynamite your pm's are full.

and yes i worry about weird stuff sometimes, i'm not perfect. trying to get into my psyche is gonna be a frustrating experience for you

[dynamite140]

Mike, just because it was processed quickly as usual for you doesn't mean its the same for everyone. Now in situations like this, if it's a poster's first post, then there is definitely suspicions since it most likely is a scammer/cheater etc. But of course not many people are on forums like this so it being their first post isn't that unusual.


From what i read, other posters have posted the same thing and one poster has been a member here for a while and posted it happened to him as well. So that definitely would need to be looked at.


What's funny is from your posts, you always assume its almost always the player that is cheating. Now if cases where its player vs book... who is most likely right? Well it would be more than 50 percent the book as most likely the player was doing something like scamming/cheating etc. But if the book is a top book... then the odds are most likely the player is not telling the truth. But issue here is lot of other players has mentioned the same thing which would favor more to the player.


Also for someone that makes it seem like its not a big issue, how much was your youwager withdraw for? Was it even a big amount? Because you seem to be concerned about being eligible for a 250 dollar heritage free play promo and concerned you not eligible to cancel it... yet when its other people's money and bigger amounts, you keep assuming its not that big of a deal. I mean for you to make a big deal about a 250 dollar freeplay wager and concerned about that... how you think people who have amounts like this posted in their accounts feel if the book is cheating them for the amounts that has been stated?


Imagine you just had just 1k with youwager and something like this happened. You probably be just as concerned as the others since a 250 dollar freeplay bonus where you might not be eligible to cancel has you very worried.

[milwaukee mike]

This is a serious serious situation. YouWager seems to have a serious problems on their hands.

let's hear all sides of the story here... i just made a withdrawal 3 days ago and it was processed quickly like usual.

[aljack]

This is a serious serious situation. YouWager seems to have a serious problems on their hands.

[ywpain]

OMG,

I finally got through to the payout supervisor Luke, just now.

He informed me that Management has decided to confiscate my final funds in my account. And are refusing to give any information as to why, or discuss the matter any further with me.

Those were his exact words on the phone. "Your funds have been confiscated, you will not receive your final $2k payout, and we can not provide any information to you"

I can't believe that making a complaint about $6k in missing payouts, has now led to me losing out on another $2k. I have now lost $8k and don't know what to do.

[Optional]

Hopefully we will hear news soon Ywpain.

It is taking longer than I expected but you can be certain it will be addressed for sure.

[ywpain]

Has anyone recieved any btc payouts that were pending recently? I was promised my final one on the 22nd November, but since this whole investigation started, they haven't paid me that, now 11 days later, and they don't respond to emails/calls.

[ywpain]

Sometimes the issue is that they process so many Bitcoin payments at once and use CTRL + C, and make a mistake by not actually copying the next address and pasting the last one instead. This was very common when Bitcoin first showed up on a lot of Poker and SB sites.

Yes, I agree with you. And it’s unlikely another player who received an additional payout would be honest enough and inform customer support that they received extra funds.

So the payouts may not have been stolen, but just improperly paid.

As mentioned before the interactions I’ve had with the payout supervisor has led me to believe they are inexperienced and inept with bitcoins, as they weren’t even aware of the difference of capitilisation in addresses, as well as not knowing how to look up transactions on the blockchain.

All this being said, it’s completely their responsibility to rectify the situation.

[BankrBIG]

Sometimes the issue is that they process so many Bitcoin payments at once and use CTRL + C, and make a mistake by not actually copying the next address and pasting the last one instead. This was very common when Bitcoin first showed up on a lot of Poker and SB sites.

[SnakesPicks]

[bitcoinLuke]

Do you understand that?

Here's a tip, if you want someone else to answer or help you out in any way, starting off by saying I understand you talk any old shit you are paid to say and have no personal honor, is not a good strategy.

So let's get that out of the way.... please quote a post from this thread where you see me "defending youwager" at all?

Optional, I appreciate what you do in here, but my issue is the speed in which things are solved. If you look at the first post in this thread, it was 2 weeks ago. When people have money in an account, they want to know its safe, and if theres an issue they want it solved as quickly as possible, it shouldnt take 2 weeks to solve an issue like this. It should only take a few hours to see if a customers withdraw went to the wrong address and for them to send a new one.

[ywpain]

I want to thank optional for his help in trying to get this resolved, I didn't mean to upset you or accuse you of anything. I don't personally think youwager should be slammed and downgraded severely at the moment. I do think however that their customer service is shockingly bad and incompetent compared to other books.

My only two issues are:

I am horrified, that during this investigation period over the missing payouts. They have stopped making any further payouts that were already promised and verified to be authentic. So me as a player and others are now experiencing more pain and inconvenience at the least by not recieving our final payouts.

I also think to help other players that may not be aware there is an investigation going on should be alerted. What would be the harm to post something like this on the main website:

"""Multiple players have reported missing BTC payouts from YouWager, SBR is assisting those players and investigating in order to try and have these players paid correctly. We strongly suggest customers of youwager check their payout history and ensure that they have received btc payouts correctly, anyone in need of help, please get in touch.""""

[SportsMushroom]

i understand your frustration optional, you are going for the middle ground by helping the players in here without pissing of the book


but acting 'insulted' by what ywpain has said is hypocritical. you take money from the same books that you are claiming to be policing. that is the definition of conflict of interest. ywpain was not rude about it, he was stating a fact

if you dont like people pointing to the conflict of interest, stop taking money from sportbooks, or stop taking complaints regarding your sponsors

[Optional]

^^^ So, no problems with any of that I assume????


Here's another chance for the rest of you guys daring to question my personal integrity.

Quote ANY post of mine on the forum about Youwager in any thread where you think I have lied, been unfair, or where you see me as "defending Youwager" where I should not be.

[Optional]

Here ya go smart guy.

I'll make it super easy for you.

Here is every post of mine in this thread.

Which is the one that you object to????

If you shoot in an SBR Sportsbook Complaint Form we may be able to ensure a senior manager takes a close look at it for you.

Plenty of whales are recreational bettors.

Bet size does not equate to sharpness.

Anyone with this problem please send an SBR Sportsbook Complaint form in ASAP, whilst admin is dealing with them already about this.

I'd be surprised if they plan to confiscate anything from you guys.

In fact I think you can be almost certain they won't.


I think I would take the account suspensions as a positive development right now. Something is happening about this in there.

Have you submitted a complaint form holzhaur?

[Optional]

I understand that it seems like you may be paid either directly in indirectly by youwager, so you seem to wish to defend them.

Do you understand that?

Here's a tip, if you want someone else to answer or help you out in any way, starting off by saying I understand you talk any old shit you are paid to say and have no personal honor, is not a good strategy.

So let's get that out of the way.... please quote a post from this thread where you see me "defending youwager" at all?

[ywpain]

indeed. The other thread leaves some room for discussion at least, but if everything is true what is said in this one - and I can see no reason why it shouldn't be, with the evidence brought up from different people - this deserves nothing less than an F rating and a warning on the main page. We've seen Betdsi getting downgraded to D last year for far less than this.

They don't deserve and F rating, they aren't outright taking deposits and not making any payouts.

However, as requested before, to help other players.

How come this is not on the front page of Sportsbookreview.com Under sportsbook and industry news?

It must be put up there to help others know that they aren't alone and that they should file a case like the people in this thread

Other players should know of this problem they are having, and that they have some hope of getting their payouts resolved.

[infotimbo]

Its really sad the lack of response in this thread by SBR. Only response is by a mod defending them to the death
You have a thread about you wager stealing 77k from a player, a thread about accounts getting hacked and players not paid, and its crickets in here by SBR

indeed. The other thread leaves some room for discussion at least, but if everything is true what is said in this one - and I can see no reason why it shouldn't be, with the evidence brought up from different people - this deserves nothing less than an F rating and a warning on the main page. We've seen Betdsi getting downgraded to D last year for far less than this.

[bitcoinLuke]

Needless to say, all my money will be leaving youwager asap, and I'd encourage everyone to do the same

[bitcoinLuke]

Its really sad the lack of response in this thread by SBR. Only response is by a mod defending them to the death

You have a thread about you wager stealing 77k from a player, a thread about accounts getting hacked and players not paid, and its crickets in here by SBR