All Broker, Agent and Offshore Exchange Issues

[yellowstorm21]

I wonder how I will be able to find out who operates Orbit Exchange? Who is the approved ADR for Orbit Exchange?

[KVB]

Correct, market manipulaition is far more rampant that many realize and not as difficult as many think. It can get expensive though.

There is a who sub industry around it. I talk briefly about that level of the industry in the Intro to Sportsbetting video I made.

[Foxx]

Sucks you're getting the run around. Somehow, I doubt the 20 ip claim. I'd bet they could pull up every login and bet placement ip since the account was created.

[infotimbo]

If it was as simple as that, syndicates would be constantly "rigging" Pinny odds so they could bet the other side they want elsewhere.

the pinny part is indeed that easy, though. With a marked acount, a single double-digit low limit bet can move odds from 2.0 to 1.6 or something like that on exotic sports/leagues.

But it's obiously not a strategy that would work long-term, as most bookies that copy early pinny's odds 1:1 limit quickly anyway, or don't allow noteworthy stakes to begin with.

[KVB]

Notice I say logging in from different locales, not "to" different locales.

I'm not talking about seeing a difference between DK in Pennsylvania vs. DK Colorado for the respective local teams.

I'm talking different accounts, from different areas, with different styles of play even, seeing different offered real time lines.

It's a little more than just differing PPH lines as well.

[KVB]

not at the same time, yeah, but accounts may be categorized differently by pin, and therefor move odds less or more. So it can still make sense.

New accounts for example often even allow two bets without odds movement, for example. But normally it doesn't take long for them to get adjusted.

This is our experience, for the most part.

it's not always the same odds for everyone and believe it or not I can have different available Pinny prices up on one screen, even if just by pennies.

I mentioned just the other day about watching the Padres price. I mention constatnly logging in to different pages...

...We are watching closely, not only with multiple different types of services, but computer scripts logging in from different locales studying the offered real time lines...

Yes, there are real time lines and an opener and closer, but perhaps real time lines is a good terminology.

I came up with a term and would consider the term "offered real time lines" to be more specific, to the line you can get right then and there, no the one you see on a report or screen.

Sometimes, the offered real time line isn't even what you log in, see, and click on. Sometimes you find that wasn't available to you after all.

[KVB]

If it was as simple as that, syndicates would be constantly "rigging" Pinny odds so they could bet the other side they want elsewhere.

Well, it does happen in the market.

It's not unusual to have pieces of both sides, but one more sided than the other, as you walk a price a certain direction. It's not unlike stock manipulation.

I could "sell" the Giants early, get that steam rolling, then by them back after we can capture a few numbers.

In fact, we joked in FlyME that posting the opening buys in the UPSET Basket, because of lower liquid market, is really just me waiting to buy back the other way, maybe to get both teams as small dogs.

I absolutely could have successfully done that and in some cases might have, even though the opening positions might not be very big, but I don't think posting in the Saloon mattered there. I was just ahead of the market anyway, lol. If I got Iowa +150 on Sunday, immediately posted, and they were -150 2 hours later or Monday morning, I don't think it was because of FlyMe readers. Pretty sure if I sold any back, I posted it as well.

Easy to have shady strategies for sure, but I've just been a bit too honest, lol.

[Optional]

100% from another forum. Same AFF. URL.

Regarding placing same bet with more brokers same time. It wont work, I mean, your first bet will move the line significantly down, so your second bet wont be EV+ any more. Specially on early odds or exotic leagues/sports.

If it was as simple as that, syndicates would be constantly "rigging" Pinny odds so they could bet the other side they want elsewhere.

[infotimbo]

Regarding placing same bet with more brokers same time. It wont work, I mean, your first bet will move the line significantly down, so your second bet wont be EV+ any more. Specially on early odds or exotic leagues/sports.

not at the same time, yeah, but accounts may be categorized differently by pin, and therefor move odds less or more. So it can still make sense.

New accounts for example often even allow two bets without odds movement, for example. But normally it doesn't take long for them to get adjusted.

[yellowstorm21]

Let me share with you the recent email I received from BIA, concerning my request to have a complete list of the IPs used to log in to my account on the 24th of September , when the fake scam bet was put on my Orbit account. I immediately contacted with BIA a couple of hours after the fake bet was settled, asking for assistance and information. They assured me that they would make a deep investigation of my issue with their relevant department at Orbit and would provide me with detailed report as soon as possible. But they never emailed me back, so on the 28th of September I made again a request to have the list of the IPs and also to check the disparity of odds on that fake bet. After 3 weeks, on the 14th of October, they sent me the following e mail:

Thank you for your patience.

"Kindly note that upon requesting the IPs from Orbit Exchange, we were informed that they can only provide us with only the last 20 IP addresses that your account was accessed and we will attach them below. We requested once again a more detailed list on the specific date 24th of September, and they informed us that it will be very hard to get the requested info, but we are pressuring and requesting the details again, so we will keep you updated once we have received the specific date login IPs.

Last 20 IPs: ..."

of course the 20IPs are my home IP!!! It is obvious that they were not willing to help from the first moment I reported the incident. They earned precious time by doing nothing to check the IPs on that day or to void the bet immediately...and after 3 weeks time they are sending me this message. It is also a shame for BIA who never forced them to do their job correctly and in a logical time frame... Really I feel scammed in a "professional" way and I have no idea how should I go on...

[jjgold]

95% here can not even use brokers
another joker looking to make a buck

[KVB]

Yeah LOimited, that can be an unfortunate consequence for sure.

[Limited]

100% from another forum. Same AFF. URL.

Regarding placing same bet with more brokers same time. It wont work, I mean, your first bet will move the line significantly down, so your second bet wont be EV+ any more. Specially on early odds or exotic leagues/sports.

[turbobets]

Pretty sure he copy and pasted his post from another forum that auto fills some text with their affiliate link.

[PD77]

Good catch, got his affiliate ID in there and everything. That’ll get you banned.

[KVB]

Betibc will charge you fees on every bet, deposit and withdrawal, no point on betting there, you will lose tremendous juice in fees.
Just bet on two or three brokers at the same time.

To be clear, I'm not dissing the discussion, this is good stuff here.

You can get your 2X, you just got to open up a bit.

I think the OP might know better, and just wanted to get that link posted.

[Ruifgalmeida]

Betibc will charge you fees on every bet, deposit and withdrawal, no point on betting there, you will lose tremendous juice in fees.
Just bet on two or three brokers at the same time.

[Alfie White]

I am not sure if they have double Pinnacle limits or not but they are offering lay bets on horse racings which is very rare, and deposits/withdrawals went for me flawlessly several times - so maybe check out BookieCity, I'm happy with them.

Cheat 100%, have IOM license on their site and on IOM site they are nowhere to be found, f that tbh.

[KVB]

Is this for real?

I call bullshit all around.

I say the guy created a bullshit post to slip in an affiliated link.

Prove me wrong.

[arie1985]

I am not sure if they have double Pinnacle limits or not but they are offering lay bets on horse racings which is very rare, and deposits/withdrawals went for me flawlessly several times - so maybe check out BookieCity, I'm happy with them.

[Foosball Champ]

Times have really changed. Pinnacle had the softest lines this MLB season. I can see why they were getting crushed.

[Motorhead11]

Which country are you in?

Cyprus

[ronald]

Have just received an email that Pinnacle is closing the accounts for my country.

Was used to have X2 limits in Pinnacle direct acc compared to sportmarket, vodds, betinsia etc.

Is there an agent who provides double pinnacle limits?

I am aware that Bet-IBC was having X2 pinnacle limits in the past. Anyone here who still using them and can confirm it?

Which country are you in?

[yellowstorm21]

I emailed them again...but as you can see they chose the easiest way, they are not willing to get involved, as long as I do not have an account at Betfair...

[Optional]

That's a frustrating answer.

Again I would try that personal appeal, seeing if you can just get eCogra to put the Bet ID# in front of the right eyes at Betfair without actually starting a dispute matter.

[yellowstorm21]

Here is eCOGRA's reply to my complaint

Unfortunately, we cannot assist you with this matter as Orbitxch is not an eCOGRA Approved Site. You may wish to contact the jurisdiction where the site is licensed (this information should be available on the site) or one of the Watchdog sites like Casinomeister (www.casinomeister.com).
Kind regards,

It is obvious and the same time annoying how all sides try to leave Betfair out of any discussion, although, as most of you guys in the forum mentioned, they are the only side which can really help in this...I am thinking of starting again the process of complaints via BIA...what else can I do...I would need some help...thanks again

[yellowstorm21]

You simply can't login to any account with out credentials. Like it or not, someone had your credentials. What I am saying here is that out of these 3, Betfair, Orbit, BIA, I believe BIA is the weaker part if we exclude any external factor. But how can you be 100% sure no external factors hasn't access to your credentials. Any virtual machine downloaded to your computer?
I m sure Betfair and Orbit could see what IPs are used for accessing your account. What makes you believe they don't want to talk about it?
Also, the difference between 2 and 132.5 is really big and it smells fund passing from miles away. How do they exclude fund passing?

My computer was checked by a specialist that I trust and he assured me that there is no way someone hacked any of my accounts.. OK, I cannot be 100% sure , but on the other hand, as you can see, this disparity in odds is something I cannot understand and accept. it makes me very suspicious and disappointed. please take a look what was BIA' s final answer to that matter:

Kindly take into consideration that this is all the information that we have received from the related side, who have given a final confirmation that there is no possibility for any of the funds to be retrieved.

Orbit confirmed that the betting pattern was changed, but bets were in line, so no fund passing was displayed. Unfortunately, they could not retrieve any funds and sent us a final confirmation today.

Once again, sorry for the inconvenience, and thank you for your cooperation and understanding.

Furthermore, it has been more than 3 weeks that I am waiting Orbit-BIA to give me a detailed list of the IPs that logged in to my account and especially from which IP this bet was put.
I will not give up, but I would need some help and guidance from this community about how could I convince Betfair to deal with my issue.
Thanks again for your reply!

[ouzoun]

You simply can't login to any account with out credentials. Like it or not, someone had your credentials. What I am saying here is that out of these 3, Betfair, Orbit, BIA, I believe BIA is the weaker part if we exclude any external factor. But how can you be 100% sure no external factors hasn't access to your credentials. Any virtual machine downloaded to your computer?
I m sure Betfair and Orbit could see what IPs are used for accessing your account. What makes you believe they don't want to talk about it?
Also, the difference between 2 and 132.5 is really big and it smells fund passing from miles away. How do they exclude fund passing?

[Motorhead11]

I would rather read jj's post until the end of my days than send those people a single penny.

What post are you talking about? i know they charge even the air you breath but seems no other option left.

[Alfie White]

I would rather read jj's post until the end of my days than send those people a single penny.

[Motorhead11]

None, if they do - they are taking position on your bets and if you win they will slash it back to 50% promptly.

Not even Bet-IBC?

[Alfie White]

None, if they do - they are taking position on your bets and if you win they will slash it back to 50% promptly.

[Motorhead11]

Is there an agent with double Pinnacle limits?

Have just received an email that Pinnacle is closing the accounts for my country.

Was used to have X2 limits in Pinnacle direct acc compared to sportmarket, vodds, betinsia etc.

Is there an agent who provides double pinnacle limits?

I am aware that Bet-IBC was having X2 pinnacle limits in the past. Anyone here who still using them and can confirm it?

[yellowstorm21]

It is no surprise that IBAS is not taking a step for a player. Most of their decisions are for the bookies. It is a surprise they made a step forward to suggest eCOGRA. Frankly I have never heard of them before as an ADR and it would be nice for you if you could reply back and inform us what they are saying/doing.
Going to the police makes no sense if you come from a country where gambling/exchanges/Betfair/etc are illegal. Imagine going to a Bangladeshi police station telling them you have complaints from Betfair services! In your shoes I would speak to Arbusers forum as well. These are very knowledgable people and they have helped dozens of legitimate players in the past.
In your case I would not be 100% sure there is nothing done by BIA. Of course you should not focus on them as Opti said, but in the back of your head you should keep the idea they are related to the problem some how.

thank you for your reply Ouzoun. Of course you are right, I cannot go to my local police authorities because exchanges are illegal in my country.
I have also contacted with Arbusers, I know they have helped a lot of people, but they rejected my post on their forum because my account which I created at BIA was not referred by arbusers, so as they said "We can't assist you if this is the case. We reserve our moral capital and our time for members who support the forum". In the communication I had with arbusers via Skype they seemed to be aware of such type of scams, but also they seemed unwilling to believe that there is something wrong with BIA, if you also read what they concluded of my case
"In your shoes I would try to see what went wrong from your side...I doubt BIA, Orbit or Betfair did anything shady, so most probably someone has your credentials...If that someone is a pro, he could arb everything out, but if he is not, he simply gambled things."

Nobody has stolen my credentials, I take all the necessary precautions, 20 years I use internet for gambling and banking transactions, never was hacked before. I understand that they cooperate with bet agents like BIA and they do not wish to expose them, I totally respect that. However, I believe that they should let me open a thread at their forum...

[ouzoun]

It is no surprise that IBAS is not taking a step for a player. Most of their decisions are for the bookies. It is a surprise they made a step forward to suggest eCOGRA. Frankly I have never heard of them before as an ADR and it would be nice for you if you could reply back and inform us what they are saying/doing.
Going to the police makes no sense if you come from a country where gambling/exchanges/Betfair/etc are illegal. Imagine going to a Bangladeshi police station telling them you have complaints from Betfair services! In your shoes I would speak to Arbusers forum as well. These are very knowledgable people and they have helped dozens of legitimate players in the past.
In your case I would not be 100% sure there is nothing done by BIA. Of course you should not focus on them as Opti said, but in the back of your head you should keep the idea they are related to the problem some how.