Republican vs Democrat

[Da Manster!]

This bit too is wrong.

Even you have been brainwasjed by Trump.

Europe has contributed more than 50 times what USA to Nato since inception.

Europe has contributed more arms and war materials to Ukraine than USA.

European countries have spent more than 3x what America has on the Ukraine war. And that's before you even take into account UK, Canada, Australia, India etc.


Even the left leaners are being sucked in by Trump's America is a victim mentally.

apples and oranges...you are talking about a whole continent as opposed to one country. and by the way, regardless of monetary figures, the point still stands. NATO is about as useful as on a boar hog. The fact remains that two biggest world powers that can either maintain or destroy world peace are the USA and Russia......Everyone else is just along for the ride!..

[Optional]

not sure about all that.https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/h...ne-in-6-charts


also USA just sent another 60 billion a few days ago.

Scroll down toward the bottom of your article and there are two charts that confirm close to exactly what I just said Dwight.

Trump and Fox have convinced almost everyone that America has spent more than Europe, and more than it's fair share, and it's just not true.

[Optional]

Funny how you mention post WW2 because it conveniently fits your narrative. but the two big ones, WW1 and WW2, well let's just say if it weren't for us Yanks to bail you out, all of you Aussies and the rest of the civilized world would only be speaking three languages right about now!...German, Japanese, and Italian!......but I do agree with your other points for the most part. We shouldn't be meddling in other countries affairs if it's only between two factions. let them settle their differences. We had absolutely no business whatsoever in Afghanistan, Iraq, Korea, and Vietnam. All of those were political wars. Hundreds of billions of US tax dollars wasted needlessly and recklessly!

Australians and New Zealanders were the first force to stop the Japanese march across the pacific countries actually. Without any help.

And we are the only country to have fought beside USA in every war you have fought since WW2. So our hands are not clean either.

Your welcome to add pre WW2 conflicts where you think other countries owe USA the debt of gratitude for helping them out that you spoke about.

[Optional]

apples and oranges...you are talking about a whole continent as opposed to one country. and by the way, regardless of monetary figures, the point still stands. NATO is about as useful as on a boar hog. The fact remains that two biggest world powers that can either maintain or destroy world peace are the USA and Russia......Everyone else is just along for the ride!..

Not really.

The NATO agreement calls for spending based on a % of GDP and population.

Europe is similar size to USA figures.

So the comparison is accurate and valid.


My point is only that it is a fallacy that any one country is carrying the bag for the rest in funding Ukraine.

We are being tricked. I was too until I looked.

[DwightShrute]

Scroll down toward the bottom of your article and there are two charts that confirm close to exactly what I just said Dwight.

Trump and Fox have convinced almost everyone that America has spent more than Europe, and more than it's fair share, and it's just not true.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. This is before Monday's 60 billion addition by the USA

...
ukraine war Ukraine's largest military aid partner since the start of the war, the United States, has committed a total of €71.4 billion in aid when also considering financial and humanitarian support. Germany, the United Kingdom and Norway have been the next most significant pledgers of aid.
Dec 13, 2023

https://www.statista.com/chart/28489/ukrainian-military-humanitarian-and-financial-aid-donors/

[Itsamazing777]

If we can afford to give away 70 billion, to someone else, than we are paying too much tax

[b1slickguy]

Old joe took a few minutes from his vacation weekend to remind us how important it is that the US "keep its word" with Ukraine and keep the unaudited laundering of US tax dollars flowing. Funny how the recipient of these funds couldn't "keep its word" with the Minsk Agreements. If they had, all of this money wasted and lives lost wouldn't have happened.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">JUST IN: Speaking from his weekend home in Delaware, Biden orders Congress to return to Washington and pass the bill funding the Ukraine war. WATCH <a href="https://t.co/lrIC6hvHow">pic.twitter.com/lrIC6hvHow</a></p>&mdash; Simon Ateba (@simonateba) <a href="https://twitter.com/simonateba/status/1759006480613650709?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw" >February 18, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[JIBBBY]

If we can afford to give away 70 billion, to someone else, than we are paying too much tax

Well said! We are the piggy bank to the world as we send tax dollars out everywhere. This is why I want to vote for Trump again. He tells Nato to pay up or GTFO!.. We need Presidents that want to put AMERICA first! We are in debt Nationally and need money coming in and not going out anymore.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Da Manster!]

Not really.

The NATO agreement calls for spending based on a % of GDP and population.

Europe is similar size to USA figures.

So the comparison is accurate and valid.


My point is only that it is a fallacy that any one country is carrying the bag for the rest in funding Ukraine.

We are being tricked. I was too until I looked.

take a good look Optional......We are definitely paying our fair share and pulling our own weight!...

[Optional]

It does not change that the EU has spent more on military support for the war than the USA, and is required to spend a little less as a group.

When you start adding in humanitarian aide as well it gets fuzzy and everyone wants to include different stuff and different estimates, but from what I can tell EU has spent 2 to 3 times what USA has so far. At the very least we can say more for sure.


And those spending on defense numbers are not like anyone should be sending the USA money like you are owed it. It's to ensure all members are putting enough into their own defense to not be a burden on other members by getting invaded for being too weak.

It's a Jedi mind trick that has left you thinking everyone is sucking in your money or costing America anything. And now there is a NATO war virtually every member is contributing their fair share to that.

America is doing what it agrees to and should do. I don't think it's any more than that and probably less due to all the resistance to the spending.

[Hareeba!]

take a good look Optional......We are definitely paying our fair share and pulling our own weight!...

That appears to be total defence spending rather than just on Ukraine?

[Da Manster!]

That appears to be total defence spending rather than just on Ukraine?

yes correct Hareeba! that is for NATO, not Ukraine...that graph was my rebuttal to Optional...

[Itsamazing777]

It does not change that the EU has spent more on military support for the war than the USA, and is required to spend a little less as a group.

When you start adding in humanitarian aide as well it gets fuzzy and everyone wants to include different stuff and different estimates, but from what I can tell EU has spent 2 to 3 times what USA has so far. At the very least we can say more for sure.


And those spending on defense numbers are not like anyone should be sending the USA money like you are owed it. It's to ensure all members are putting enough into their own defense to not be a burden on other members by getting invaded for being too weak.

It's a Jedi mind trick that has left you thinking everyone is sucking in your money or costing America anything. And now there is a NATO war virtually every member is contributing their fair share to that.

America is doing what it agrees to and should do. I don't think it's any more than that and probably less due to all the resistance to the spending.

The problem is the select few are deciding what to do with hundreds of millions of Americans tax dollars. "America" is all the people who live here but have no say in sending this money. It is most definitely hurting us.

[jackpot269]

apples and oranges...you are talking about a whole continent as opposed to one country. and by the way, regardless of monetary figures, the point still stands. NATO is about as useful as on a boar hog. The fact remains that two biggest world powers that can either maintain or destroy world peace are the USA and Russia......Everyone else is just along for the ride!..

China will pass Russia on this list in the near future.

[jackpot269]

The problem is the select few are deciding what to do with hundreds of millions of Americans tax dollars. "America" is all the people who live here but have no say in sending this money. It is most definitely hurting us.

Blame the framers they came up with this system of government that makes the decisions.

[Hareeba!]

Mike Johnson now running ads raising money using the border issue after he killed the strong border bill endorsed by the Border Patrol Union.

The American people see through his con.

[DwightShrute]

Blame the framers they came up with this system of government that makes the decisions.

You mean blame the politicians who are alive today? Nothing the framers did forced anyone to do it.

Don’t you think that if they really wanted to, they could end the war tomorrow? I mean, it’s gonna end someday right? Why not tomorrow rather than closer to the US election or next year or five years from now?

[DwightShrute]

Mike Johnson now running ads raising money using the border issue after he killed the strong border bill endorsed by the Border Patrol Union.

The American people see through his con.

[khicks26]

It does not change that the EU has spent more on military support for the war than the USA, and is required to spend a little less as a group.

When you start adding in humanitarian aide as well it gets fuzzy and everyone wants to include different stuff and different estimates, but from what I can tell EU has spent 2 to 3 times what USA has so far. At the very least we can say more for sure.


And those spending on defense numbers are not like anyone should be sending the USA money like you are owed it. It's to ensure all members are putting enough into their own defense to not be a burden on other members by getting invaded for being too weak.

It's a Jedi mind trick that has left you thinking everyone is sucking in your money or costing America anything. And now there is a NATO war virtually every member is contributing their fair share to that.

America is doing what it agrees to and should do. I don't think it's any more than that and probably less due to all the resistance to the spending.

Honest question really. Do you think that Europe would be better off to join the Brics? Cheap gas from Russia and fair trade with China.

[jackpot269]

You mean blame the politicians who are alive today? Nothing the framers did forced anyone to do it.

Don’t you think that if they really wanted to, they could end the war tomorrow? I mean, it’s gonna end someday right? Why not tomorrow rather than closer to the US election or next year or five years from now?

The post I was replying to said
The problem was to few people making the decision about money.
The framers are the ones that made it so they could.
But to your point, of course they don't have to. But they were given the power to do that.

[jackpot269]

You have seen all of of Mr. Johnson's ads and know that this is mot true?

[Da Manster!]

China will pass Russia on this list in the near future.

yup, they are not too far behind either...

[Hareeba!]

You have seen all of of Mr. Johnson's ads and know that this is mot true?

Is that DipShit again calling my post a lie?

Where's the lie?
Not that I expect he's capable of posting anything approaching an honest response (as per usual).

[Hareeba!]

Latest historical president ratings poll at Fox

[Optional]

The problem is the select few are deciding what to do with hundreds of millions of Americans tax dollars. "America" is all the people who live here but have no say in sending this money. It is most definitely hurting us.

I don't think you can be sure about that.

70 years of having bases and missiles on their land and the benefits to USA from that would way outstrip any net cost just to start with the value taken against a guarantee America would stand with NATO countries if needed.

Now you're needed and people are wringing their hands how unfair it is?


But more than that, why do you assume US defense would cost less if you abandoned NATO?

Very good chance it would require a large expansion and adjustment of military assets to keep US security where it is now.


It's over simplifying it saying we are spending 60 billion this month and I wasn't asked about it.

Your grandfathers generation made the deal, your fathers generation took full advantage of that deal and you are the actual beneficiary of all the money and effort that went into maintaining the agreement for all these decades.

Do you believe Trump that generations of American presidents and congresses are so stupid they make and keep deals not in the country's interest?

If so, stop and think about it using your own brain and not the American-victimists who are just trying to make you angry. Nothing here to be angry about. It sucks but it has to be done. 70 years of tickets need to be cashed.

Honest question really. Do you think that Europe would be better off to join the Brics? Cheap gas from Russia and fair trade with China.

No idea really. But I do think it's the natural outcome eventually.

[khicks26]

I don't think you can be sure about that.

70 years of having bases and missiles on their land and the benefits to USA from that would way outstrip any net cost just to start with the value taken against a guarantee America would stand with NATO countries if needed.

Now you're needed and people are wringing their hands how unfair it is?


But more than that, why do you assume US defense would cost less if you abandoned NATO?

Very good chance it would require a large expansion and adjustment of military assets to keep US security where it is now.


It's over simplifying it saying we are spending 60 billion this month and I wasn't asked about it.

Your grandfathers generation made the deal, your fathers generation took full advantage of that deal and you are the actual beneficiary of all the money and effort that went into maintaining the agreement for all these decades.

Do you believe Trump that generations of American presidents and congresses are so stupid they make and keep deals not in the country's interest?

If so, stop and think about it using your own brain and not the American-victimists who are just trying to make you angry. Nothing here to be angry about. It sucks but it has to be done. 70 years of tickets need to be cashed.



No idea really. But I do think it's the natural outcome eventually.

I agree, the greed of the American 1% is driving the country to ruin. They don't care about the country, just how much money they can suck out of it before the shit house goes up in flames.

[khicks26]

I don't think you can be sure about that.

70 years of having bases and missiles on their land and the benefits to USA from that would way outstrip any net cost just to start with the value taken against a guarantee America would stand with NATO countries if needed.

Now you're needed and people are wringing their hands how unfair it is?


But more than that, why do you assume US defense would cost less if you abandoned NATO?

Very good chance it would require a large expansion and adjustment of military assets to keep US security where it is now.


It's over simplifying it saying we are spending 60 billion this month and I wasn't asked about it.

Your grandfathers generation made the deal, your fathers generation took full advantage of that deal and you are the actual beneficiary of all the money and effort that went into maintaining the agreement for all these decades.

Do you believe Trump that generations of American presidents and congresses are so stupid they make and keep deals not in the country's interest?

If so, stop and think about it using your own brain and not the American-victimists who are just trying to make you angry. Nothing here to be angry about. It sucks but it has to be done. 70 years of tickets need to be cashed.



No idea really. But I do think it's the natural outcome eventually.

You might find this interesting.

[DwightShrute]

You have seen all of of Mr. Johnson's ads and know that this is mot true?

It wasn’t a border bill. It was filled with tons of pork.

the border patrol went to the WH and stood behind Trump saying a wall was vital. Congress did everything they could to stop It. They even passed bill preventing a president from taking money from the military to build a wall like Trump actually did. Also, did you forget what Biden did on his day as president.

Hareeballs is just doing his normal routine of deception.

[ByeShea]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...orgia-new-york

Things don't get much clearer than this.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">They impeached President Trump twice, arrested him 4x, and charged him 91x. <br><br>Then they took him off the ballot.<br><br>Then they fined him $350,000,000.<br><br>Then they call us a threat to democracy.</p>&mdash; End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) <a href="https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1759209712338313400?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw" >February 18, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[Optional]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">They impeached President Trump twice, arrested him 4x, and charged him 91x. <br><br>Then they took him off the ballot.<br><br>Then they fined him $350,000,000.<br><br>Then they call us a threat to democracy.</p>&mdash; End Wokeness (@EndWokeness) <a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/EndWokeness/status/1759209712338313400?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw" >February 18, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A President with no respect for the law or the courts or the intelligence services is definitely a huge threat to democracy.

But I read on here from time to time that far right loonies think a dictatorship is just fine if it means they "win".

So you don't care about democracy really do you? It's just a word to MAGA now. Anything to stop the majority of Americans voting you down. Eff the country. Let's break it all up.

[Hareeba!]

A President with no respect for the law or the courts or the intelligence services is definitely a huge threat to democracy.

But I read on here from time to time that far right loonies think a dictatorship is just fine if it means they "win".

So you don't care about democracy really do you? It's just a word to MAGA now. Anything to stop the majority of Americans voting you down. Eff the country. Let's break it all up.

[DwightShrute]

A President with no respect for the law or the courts or the intelligence services is definitely a huge threat to democracy.

But I read on here from time to time that far right loonies think a dictatorship is just fine if it means they "win".

So you don't care about democracy really do you? It's just a word to MAGA now. Anything to stop the majority of Americans voting you down. Eff the country. Let's break it all up.

Trump respects the law, the courts and the intelligence agencies. Like most people, he calls out corrupt judges, crooked prosecutors and scumbags in the intelligence agencies.

you seem to be under some silly fantasy that all those people mentioned are immune from corruption.

If you think these indictments against Trump are nothing more than election interference, then the legacy media did its job. The rest of us will simply call it like we see them rather than denying the obvious.

the mere fact that Hareeballs agrees with your last post, should make you pause and reflect. It won’t of course. Instead, there will be more far left rhetoric.

[Optional]

Trump respects the law, the courts and the intelligence agencies. Like most people, he calls out corrupt judges, crooked prosecutors and scumbags in the intelligence agencies.

you seem to be under some silly fantasy that all those people mentioned are immune from corruption.

If you think these indictments against Trump are nothing more than election interference, then the legacy media did its job. The rest of us will simply call it like we see them rather than denying the obvious.

Oh give me a break Dwight.

There is a system of appeal, and a proper way to make submissions to address bad/unfair judges. You don't show respect with abuse and attacks whatever you think is going on.

By definition if you are abusing and attacking judges you are announcing yourself that you have no respect for the systems.

Why just post contrarian baseless BS like this at all??? Trump himself would not even agree with you!

[DwightShrute]

Oh give me a break Dwight.

There is a system of appeal, and a proper way to make submissions to address bad/unfair judges. You don't show respect with abuse and attacks whatever you think is going on.

By definition if you are abusing and attacking judges you are announcing yourself that you have no respect for the systems.

Why just post contrarian baseless BS like this at all??? Trump himself would not even agree with you!

Trump is a fighter. He is taking on the establishment head on. People respect that. Normal decent people.
How many lies are you willing to believe? Is there a limit? Since 2015 there have been dozens of lies and fabricated stories repeated as truths, when in fact they were not true. Me and others have listed dozens of examples. Yet, you guy are like Charlie Brown running up to that football believing that this time it will be different. It unexplainable. TDS is a real.

[jackpot269]

It wasn’t a border bill. It was filled with tons of pork.

the border patrol went to the WH and stood behind Trump saying a wall was vital. Congress did everything they could to stop It. They even passed bill preventing a president from taking money from the military to build a wall like Trump actually did. Also, did you forget what Biden did on his day as president.

Hareeballs is just doing his normal routine of deception.

If the wall cost were anywhere close to Trump's original estimates I would be more inclined to change my mind but I still can't get passed taking private land and/or a natural resource from USA citizens.

The border in my lifetime has never been secured. Not even under Trump. Now we have the large numbers crossing and something needs to be done. Unlike you and others I'm not convinced the wall is the best use of money to do all we can to have as few as possible cross.