Horse Racing questions and answers

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Seize the Grey Update
[/COLOR]
It has officially been decided that Seize the Grey will point for the Nov. 2 G1 Breeders’ Cup Dirt Mile over the Classic.
Trainer D. Wayne Lukas and our team agree that the Dirt Mile will be the more winnable of the two spots and could potentially give Seize the Grey his best chance at champion 3-year-old male honors depending on what happens in the Classic.
The financial upside of the Classic is certainly alluring, but we were able to negotiate an increased kicker for a Dirt Mile win—it will now be $2 million ($1.8 million payable to the Series, like the kicker for the PA Derby), up from the previously agreed upon $1 million. That will help close the gap a bit between the two races as far as financial rewards go and further incentivize us to give Seize the Grey what most agree is his best chance at a Breeders’ Cup title.
Seize the Grey is expected to ship to California next week. We’ll report back with a firmer travel schedule when we have it.

I always thought this was the better option.

[str]

if you missed in my thread thought you'd find interesting


" jose ortiz at horseshoe rides two races and neither one's a stakes race ?? about 175 miles from keeneland

R6 #3 dona witch (8-1)
@ 4:45

R8 #4 storm the streets (4-1)
@ 5:47

parlay or p3 ? "

Best guess is he went there to ride the 2 yr. old maiden for Joe Sharp. Cant imagine he goes there for an older maiden.

Kind of odd though.

[str]

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/b...8917180888.mp4

He is a lot more comfortable following than he is leading which is typical. You can see he is a little apprehensive when he first starts out while leading. At about 47 seconds, watch him think it is over and starts eyeing his stall and thinking it's time to go in. He starts leaning that way for a second.
Then, when they go the other direction and he is following. Can you see how he is much more at ease with all that? Very typical.

Also, when the rain increased, that is a lot of noise and distraction with that hard a rain hitting the roof etc. That's not easy for them. All in all, he did great!

[str]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Real Savvy Race Preview
[/COLOR]
Real Savvy looks to draw in off the also-eligible list this Saturday in the seventh race at Belmont at the Big A, scheduled for 1 1/16 miles on the turf. With such a large field, we will be keeping our fingers crossed for someone in the main body of the race to scratch so that we can draw into the race.
Your son of Authentic will look to graduate the maiden ranks, following a second-place finish at Saratoga where he was beaten a head by a filly who won her next start in the G3 Miss Grillo S.. Even though that runner’s a filly, that result certainly flattered Real Savvy’s form. Joel Rosario is set to ride your colt, who if able to draw in has a major chance to best this bunch.
We will update you once scratches come out on Saturday morning as to whether or not Real Savvy will be racing. Fingers crossed and best of luck to all owners!


Click here for past performances. Here’s more on the rest of the field:
#1 Bigfoot Sighting: A first time starter going out for the Atras barn, which strikes at 19% with the kind, this son of Bernardini will be ridden by Joel Rosario should we not draw in. If we are lucky enough to get into the race, Rosario will ride our horse and this one will be in search of a new jockey.
#2 Iron Max: Most recently sixth by 11 1/4 in the same race as Real Savvy, this Jeremiah Englehart trainee will have to step up to compete with this bunch.
#3 Firebreathingbrown: Newcomer for a barn that only wins at a 5% clip with firsters. This stat combined with average morning workout times indicate this one might need a race and some experience. Should not be a threat in here.
#4 George Briggs: By first-crop sire Fog of War, who was a Grade 1 winner on turf at two for this same Peter Brant/Chad Brown team, but who has been quiet thus far with his first runners. This colt has had a solid work tab going all the way back to June. Has to be respected in here against this group of juveniles given the connections.
#5 Powered by Coal: Seventh at 50-1 in his last start, the same race where Real Savvy finished second. Will have to improve to be competitive.
#6 Deemer: Son of Slumber was nailed at the wire first time out, earning a 58 Beyer Speed Figure. This one should show improvement here with a race under his belt, and could be a threat in this spot.
#7 Calling Card: Mike Maker trainee stretches out from 5 1/2 furlongs, and if his pedigree is any indication, he should appreciate the added distance. Red-hot rider Dylan Davis has the call on this son of Complexity.
#8 Trinity River: Nearly took the field wire to wire on debut, ultimately getting a bit tired and finishing third, beaten two lengths. With that race under his belt, he should have a bit more stamina for his second start. Coming in off of a bullet half-mile work, look for this Linda Rice trainee to be on the lead.
#9 Sounds Like A Plan: Blinkers go on here for a barn that strikes at an 18% clip with that equipment change. Ran well first time out in a race that came off the turf. Trainer Horacio De Paz elects to run back on the grass, which is a strong indication that it is this son of Twirling Candy’s preferred surface.
#10 Twohonestmischief: This one makes his third start following two races where he earned Beyer Speed Figures in the twenties. Extremely outclassed against this group unless the turf really wakes him up.
#11 Gunner’s Gold: Debuting for a barn that typically specializes more with older claiming horses, this Gunnevera colt is an oddball.
#12 Just Clarity: Not a very strong trainer jockey combo—they’ve won at just 4% since 2023 from 161 starters. Was beaten nearly 20 lengths first out sprinting on the dirt. His pedigree suggests he will like the added distance, and it wouldn’t be a shocker to see him take to the turf.

Seems like it is even harder to get into these types of races this late in the year up there. Everybody wants to try it and time is short.
GL if you happen to draw in Batt.

[JBEX]

Best guess is he went there to ride the 2 yr. old maiden for Joe Sharp. Cant imagine he gores there for an older maiden.

Kind of odd though.

I agree ..with the saratoga speed and having that KD last for stamina could really see him being effective especially @ 5f..taken off turf and was challenged fairly soon out of the gate .. caved around quarter pole


.

[JBEX]

stallion fees 2025

ironically kingsbarn and army mule both $20k..latter reduced by $5k from this year's fee ..probably would have been more for KB with a bc classic top 2 .. think good value to be had with both

[batt33]

stallion fees 2025

ironically kingsbarn and army mule both $20k..latter reduced by $5k from this year's fee ..probably would have been more for KB with a bc classic top 2 .. think good value to be had with both

Seems like alot of fee's were reduced by different farms this is just one example...I cant find the other one I was looking at..

Darley America 2025 Stud Fees
Stallion	2025 fee	2024 fee
Nyquist	TBD	$85,000
Medaglia d'Oro	$75,000	$75,000
Cody's Wish	$65,000	$75,000
Essential Quality	$50,000	$65,000
Street Sense	$50,000	$60,000
Maxfield	$40,000	$35,000
Hard Spun	$25,000	$35,000
Frosted	$15,000	$10,000
Midshipman	$15,000	$15,000
Proxy	$15,000	$25,000
Speaker's Corner	$10,000	$17,500
Mystic Guide	$7,500	$12,500

[batt33]

He is a lot more comfortable following than he is leading which is typical. You can see he is a little apprehensive when he first starts out while leading. At about 47 seconds, watch him think it is over and starts eyeing his stall and thinking it's time to go in. He starts leaning that way for a second.
Then, when they go the other direction and he is following. Can you see how he is much more at ease with all that? Very typical.

Also, when the rain increased, that is a lot of noise and distraction with that hard a rain hitting the roof etc. That's not easy for them. All in all, he did great!

Always Enjoy your thoughts! Thanks!

[batt33]

Hey JBEX

https://www.horseracingnation.com/news/3_Horses_carrying_momentum_approaching_the_Breeders_Cup_123

[str]

stallion fees 2025

ironically kingsbarn and army mule both $20k..latter reduced by $5k from this year's fee ..probably would have been more for KB with a bc classic top 2 .. think good value to be had with both

I have it in my head that KB was going to win out this year. The Gold Cup and the BC classic. Without being biased, or as much as I can be, lol, he looked to have finally , slowly, but surely, turned a corner away from all the mental mistakes he made before. His maturity was starting to shine, so it seemed too me. So with that in mind, what about his offspring? Literally a million dollar question IMO.
Will they tend to relax more or will they want to run off and take a year, or forever, to get past that?
Breeding tends to bring out both the good and the not so good in offspring. And I am by no means an expert in the breeding field. I will not pretend to be.
That said, it would seem to me that a mare that was a speedy sprinter would not necessarily be the best fit for KB. I would assume that a mare that went long and relaxed without problem would be the best fit. Better still, a mare that is by a stallion that DID relax early. Not a plodder but not a speed horse either.
Again, just a guess for me as I know a lot about what I know but this is not that. I hope we get to see that. Time will tell.

[str]

Hey JBEX
https://www.horseracingnation.com/ne...eeders_Cup_123

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgopHWACUXs

[str]

Always Enjoy your thoughts! Thanks!

My pleasure Batt.

[Madison]

I have it in my head that KB was going to win out this year. The Gold Cup and the BC classic. Without being biased, or as much as I can be, lol, he looked to have finally , slowly, but surely, turned a corner away from all the mental mistakes he made before. His maturity was starting to shine, so it seemed too me. So with that in mind, what about his offspring? Literally a million dollar question IMO.
Will they tend to relax more or will they want to run off and take a year, or forever, to get past that?
Breeding tends to bring out both the good and the not so good in offspring. And I am by no means an expert in the breeding field. I will not pretend to be.
That said, it would seem to me that a mare that was a speedy sprinter would not necessarily be the best fit for KB. I would assume that a mare that went long and relaxed without problem would be the best fit. Better still, a mare that is by a stallion that DID relax early. Not a plodder but not a speed horse either.
Again, just a guess for me as I know a lot about what I know but this is not that. I hope we get to see that. Time will tell.

Could you imagine if we looked at our offspring this way? LOL

My wife and I are total opposites and been married forever. My daughter and her husband pretty opposite and thriving. Just a thought.

[JBEX]

I have it in my head that KB was going to win out this year. The Gold Cup and the BC classic. Without being biased, or as much as I can be, lol, he looked to have finally , slowly, but surely, turned a corner away from all the mental mistakes he made before. His maturity was starting to shine, so it seemed too me. So with that in mind, what about his offspring? Literally a million dollar question IMO.
Will they tend to relax more or will they want to run off and take a year, or forever, to get past that?
Breeding tends to bring out both the good and the not so good in offspring. And I am by no means an expert in the breeding field. I will not pretend to be.
That said, it would seem to me that a mare that was a speedy sprinter would not necessarily be the best fit for KB. I would assume that a mare that went long and relaxed without problem would be the best fit. Better still, a mare that is by a stallion that DID relax early. Not a plodder but not a speed horse either.
Again, just a guess for me as I know a lot about what I know but this is not that. I hope we get to see that. Time will tell.

I'm really not as convinced as you are about him not being able to relax ..he was able to come off the pace in his debut and 2nd race at tampa bay ..in the la derby he took advantage of a no pace situation and wired the field .. possibly that's what led him to be aggressive going to the lead in the derby and then maybe carried over to the mth
stakes where he just missed ..agreed with you at the time that taking a break seemed like a good idea and admittedly this is something you know much better than me..although I do feel I have developed a bit of sense for when it might be a good idea from outside observation

when he came back as a 4yo he seemed to have no problem with sitting off the pace even in the shorter 7f race which started his campaign.. I think pim special was one of those aberration races with an exceptionally slow pace but in his final 2 at kee and churchill he did it perfectly

I think based on his first 2 races that going for the lead might not be a natural tendency for him .. the la derby forced his hand and that carried over to the ky derby and the listed stakes at mth..more of a glitch along the way possibly because he was fairly inexperienced going into the ky derby with only 3 races under his belt

be interesting to hear what todd's view of this would be..if you happen to read this thread please feel free .. lol

[JBEX]

"I'm really not as convinced as you are about him not being able to relax"


started off with this..obviously he was able to relax during his career but what I meant was having a natural tendency to be aggressive early


.

[batt33]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgopHWACUXs

[batt33]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Breeze Report[/COLOR]

Caldera worked a stamina-building five furlongs this morning at Churchill Downs in 1:02.60 (with opening splits of :12 4/5 and :37 flat and a six-furlong gallop out in 1:16 3/5). Jockey Jaime Torres was again up for the work. The breeze was originally intended to be in company, but Caldera got separated from his mate and instead ended up working solo.
All in all it was a productive work—as we’ve said before, he doesn’t need to go out there and set a track record every time. We already know he’s fast, and slower, more controlled works often do more to build up conditioning. Getting him race fit is the main objective at this point, and today’s move will have helped accomplish that.
We’d expect another more serious company work in the coming weeks, but for now Caldera continues to move towards a debut with great promise.

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/Caldera_1729174447901/MP4/Caldera_1729174447901.mp4

[str]

I'm really not as convinced as you are about him not being able to relax ..he was able to come off the pace in his debut and 2nd race at tampa bay ..in the la derby he took advantage of a no pace situation and wired the field .. possibly that's what led him to be aggressive going to the lead in the derby and then maybe carried over to the mth
stakes where he just missed ..agreed with you at the time that taking a break seemed like a good idea and admittedly this is something you know much better than me..although I do feel I have developed a bit of sense for when it might be a good idea from outside observation

when he came back as a 4yo he seemed to have no problem with sitting off the pace even in the shorter 7f race which started his campaign.. I think pim special was one of those aberration races with an exceptionally slow pace but in his final 2 at kee and churchill he did it perfectly

I think based on his first 2 races that going for the lead might not be a natural tendency for him .. the la derby forced his hand and that carried over to the ky derby and the listed stakes at mth..more of a glitch along the way possibly because he was fairly inexperienced going into the ky derby with only 3 races under his belt

be interesting to hear what todd's view of this would be..if you happen to read this thread please feel free .. lol

What I meant in terms of KB was, that if there exists a weak link or flaw, amazingly, they can have a tendency to follow through to the offspring. I do agree with KB being able to relax early on. He did. It was great. But, he could have gotten a little confused when he went to the lead in the La. Derby with that crawling early pace and when he ran back in the Derby, he was gun ho as he went down the backside into a crazy speed pace. He looked to me to be on fire in his thoughts and wanting to engage. If memory serves, that is what I saw in his eyes and mannerisms. That cooked him that day and seemed to linger to an extent. The time off really helped him reset mentally IMO and he did much better. The pace seemed to get him somewhat riled up in the Pimlico Special race but after that, he seemed better than ever or like in the beginning, and he looked like he had grasped the concept and was about to shine.

Because breeding can carry things over, and it does more so than not so it seems, that is about the only thing I could point to as to any kind of flaw, if indeed there is any at all. I hope there is not, but if we see it down the road, we will understand it.
I do feel that it was the timing of the derby that jumped up and bit him. As with all those horses, running and training was all dictated by the date of first Saturday in May. It has always been like that and always will be. But because of that, things need to fall just right and if they do not, usually, the horse still runs in that race. I mean, how do you skip the one chance to run in the most glorified race in the world if your horse is doing fine but, well maybe he got a little rattled last time? You don't. You hope things straighten themselves out. Sometimes they do. In KB's case, that hot pace made him stop listening to the rider, and start thinking about the horse in front of him. At least that is how I interpreted his run down the backside and into the turn that day. And as we have said many times, we don't want the horse to be thinking, we want him or her to be awaiting orders from the rider.
I felt that Todd did an exceptional job getting that straightened out.

So the question in my mind will be, does that show up on the back end somewhere? Maybe not at all, but if it does, having a mare influence of relax IMO will be the optimal remedy to help offset it.
Like you, I'm waiting for Todd to respond. Lol.

[str]

Could you imagine if we looked at our offspring this way? LOL

My wife and I are total opposites and been married forever. My daughter and her husband pretty opposite and thriving. Just a thought.

Call me crazy, but because of seeing things like this in my line of work, I have watched my children, and others, quietly and without direction, and in my family, I can see how each turned out and what parts of me and what parts of my wife, each kid has. Or, not much at all. It is always different it seems. My wife and I are opposite as well. And like you, forever sums up how long we have been together as well.

And we don't dwell on it because it IS kind of weird. Feels kind of weird. But we both find it amazing as to what flows through into your offspring when certain situations crop up. The old adage of opposites attract seems to hold up doesn't it.

Bottom line is, we are all crazy, at least a little. Lol.

[str]

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Caldera Breeze Report[/COLOR]

Caldera worked a stamina-building five furlongs this morning at Churchill Downs in 1:02.60 (with opening splits of :12 4/5 and :37 flat and a six-furlong gallop out in 1:16 3/5). Jockey Jaime Torres was again up for the work. The breeze was originally intended to be in company, but Caldera got separated from his mate and instead ended up working solo.
All in all it was a productive work—as we’ve said before, he doesn’t need to go out there and set a track record every time. We already know he’s fast, and slower, more controlled works often do more to build up conditioning. Getting him race fit is the main objective at this point, and today’s move will have helped accomplish that.
We’d expect another more serious company work in the coming weeks, but for now Caldera continues to move towards a debut with great promise.

https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/Caldera_1729174447901/MP4/Caldera_1729174447901.mp4

Never made a quarter running fast in the morning Batt.

Nice and relaxed, good to go. Can't ask for more than that.

[JBEX]

hey str

it seems like high level open claiming races are making a comeback at least in ny..I remember guessing about 30-40 years ago that allowance and high claimers ran separately most if not all of the time ..also that the top tags in ny were pretty high ..at least $75-80k and possibly $100 on occasion seems like a lot of money that far back doesn't it ? obviously the alw/oc category was mainly done to increase field size .. think the logic is a top tag would go well with nw2 other than and 1 claiming level below would be a good competition equivalent to a nw1/ot .. I really should know this but admittedly not sure..used to have alw nw3/ot which it seems you don't see nowadays ..what was the top tag back in the 80's and 90's at laurel and did they have a nw3ot alw on occasion ? realize there's more advanced alw conditions than the nw category but just sticking with them

a long time ago,guessing kings swan for rick dutrow sr was taken out of a high level claimer.
..he was really something special !

[JBEX]

army mule debuter

kee

R2 #3 war mule (8-1)
restricted msw


scratch

@ 1:32



.

[Madison]

Geldings

Question:

R1 BEL #6 Whatchatalkingabout OFF 366 days Been scratched at least twice recently I believe.

1) 5/12/23 BEL Wins MSW
2) 8/27/23 SAR Wins 200K STK
3) 10/16/23 Finger Lakes Wins 161K STK

So, this guy looks like a possible star. First 2 starts 2C. 3rd start 2G in 6 weeks??

Gelded in 6 weeks and comes back and wins? And then we don't see him for a year?

No hurry. Thx!!

[Madison]

FYI ... KEE R7 2F #3 Lyric Street ... Street Sense / Uncle Mo.

[batt33]

Question:

R1 BEL #6 Whatchatalkingabout OFF 366 days Been scratched at least twice recently I believe.

1) 5/12/23 BEL Wins MSW
2) 8/27/23 SAR Wins 200K STK
3) 10/16/23 Finger Lakes Wins 161K STK

So, this guy looks like a possible star. First 2 starts 2C. 3rd start 2G in 6 weeks??

Gelded in 6 weeks and comes back and wins? And then we don't see him for a year?

No hurry. Thx!!

My guess... just injuries.... bowed tendon maybe? reminds of of a horse years a go " minutes away" Greg Gilchrist,,, randy shcatt(sp) jockey.. Minutes had his issues..( bowed tendon) people were afraid to claim him.... it was " money in the bank when he ran"Greg was a great horseman.... took great care of his horses....." lost in the fog".... among others.... I'm thinking ward is just placing his horse were he has a chance to win...

[JBEX]

the effect of injuries I know nothing about although as batt said certainly it was one..obviously extremely talented as a 2yo and with his youth no rush to bring him back too soon


if you didn't see,the winner was a liam's map batt

[JBEX]

aviator gui (#7 @ 3-1) goes in baq R3 in a 2yo listed stakes on the turf..broke his maiden on an off the turf race here 3 weeks ago
..uncle mo /tapit (KB) combo is why I was interested ..discussed him briefly after the race (post 8408)

[batt33]

the effect of injuries I know nothing about although as batt said certainly it was one..obviously extremely talented as a 2yo and with his youth no rush to bring him back too soon


if you didn't see,the winner was a liam's map batt

yeah missed that...... How ever I do know of another Liams map

[JBEX]

yeah missed that...... How ever I do know of another Liams map

try to pick my spots with the LM mentions and thought this one was worthwhile..little much to bring it up all the time

[str]

hey str

it seems like high level open claiming races are making a comeback at least in ny..I remember guessing about 30-40 years ago that allowance and high claimers ran separately most if not all of the time ..also that the top tags in ny were pretty high ..at least $75-80k and possibly $100 on occasion seems like a lot of money that far back doesn't it ? obviously the alw/oc category was mainly done to increase field size .. think the logic is a top tag would go well with nw2 other than and 1 claiming level below would be a good competition equivalent to a nw1/ot .. I really should know this but admittedly not sure..used to have alw nw3/ot which it seems you don't see nowadays ..what was the top tag back in the 80's and 90's at laurel and did they have a nw3ot alw on occasion ? realize there's more advanced alw conditions than the nw category but just sticking with them

a long time ago,guessing kings swan for rick dutrow sr was taken out of a high level claimer.
..he was really something special !

The high claimers and the other than conditions did run separately. The A other than and the 2 OT always seemed to fill. Short was a fuller field typically but they both got at least 7 and typically 8-10 in the sprints and 7-9 in the long for the 2ot. The A other than was usually a little fuller than that. In the 70's the 3OT would fill. again, typically the sprint got 7-8 and the long got 6-8. But when every state started going year round, those numbers shrunk by 2-3 horses and the 3 OT would fill about 2 out of 3 times. But always a short field. The old high claimers were great. Sooo many really good olders, both boys and girls. But again, those stopped filling to the point that as much as I hated it, it did make sense to combine them. Especially when they went with triples every race darn near. The rule was that a triple race had to have 9 to be carded. All that stuff eventually got straightened out but it took a few years to get it where it is. Have to admit that some of todays conditions are ridiculous with all the various eligibility stuff. Jeez. But I'm showing my age I guess.


You are pretty much correct in the equivalency. And yes, it took two different races that both struggled with filling and combined them to get a race for both categories. The claimers almost always had an edge in those but eventually it seemed to catch up a bit.

They ran a 3OT every 12 -14 days in both short and long and boys and girls. But as the racing got diluted with so many tracks running against each other, they got tougher to fill which prompted the addition of a claiming price.

The 100k was too much back then. Inflation had not caught up. You saw a lot of 35k and even 50k in Md. NY was higher of course. Kings Swan was claimed for 75K I think. Dickie showed NY what he had been doing in Md. for years in claiming horses that he got to win stakes. Honestly, too many to list all the horses he claimed and won a stake with. And some of those claims were 14,500. Lexington Park for starters but many others. I cannot believe Dickie did not get considered for the HOF. Probably Rick and all that went on had something to do with that. You pull up his lifetime stats, and yes, he died early as compared to Delp and Leatherbury who is still at the track betting everyday. I love King. 93 and havin a ball. He is wild.
I'm thinking about writing a letter to the HOF to ask for him to be considered. Compare all 3 stats and tell me why he shouldn't be there when they are. Dying early should be graded on a curve I think. And I know... Spectacular Bid, but he is in. Delp rode in on him.



Hope I got all the questions. Hit me back if I missed any.
Thanks JBEX.

[str]

Question:

R1 BEL #6 Whatchatalkingabout OFF 366 days Been scratched at least twice recently I believe.

1) 5/12/23 BEL Wins MSW
2) 8/27/23 SAR Wins 200K STK
3) 10/16/23 Finger Lakes Wins 161K STK

So, this guy looks like a possible star. First 2 starts 2C. 3rd start 2G in 6 weeks??

Gelded in 6 weeks and comes back and wins? And then we don't see him for a year?

No hurry. Thx!!

Gelded and running 6 weeks later is actually right in line for a horse that is running and is gelded after a race. So that makes sense.

Batt could be right if the problem was a tendon OR ligament/ suspensory stuff. You might see a fronts ON if that is the case. Basically ace bandages to help support the tendon and ligament area.
If so, it would be typical to scratch on any kind of off track as those create suction from the foot upwards which adds more strain to tendons and ligaments. That would also make sense if that is the case. Like when the mud tries to pull your boot off kind of thing.

[str]

try to pick my spots with the LM mentions and thought this one was worthwhile..little much to bring it up all the time

Mention them all you want JBEX. These horses seem like many of them can run.

[JBEX]

The high claimers and the other than conditions did run separately. The A other than and the 2 OT always seemed to fill. Short was a fuller field typically but they both got at least 7 and typically 8-10 in the sprints and 7-9 in the long for the 2ot. The A other than was usually a little fuller than that. In the 70's the 3OT would fill. again, typically the sprint got 7-8 and the long got 6-8. But when every state started going year round, those numbers shrunk by 2-3 horses and the 3 OT would fill about 2 out of 3 times. But always a short field. The old high claimers were great. Sooo many really good olders, both boys and girls. But again, those stopped filling to the point that as much as I hated it, it did make sense to combine them. Especially when they went with triples every race darn near. The rule was that a triple race had to have 9 to be carded. All that stuff eventually got straightened out but it took a few years to get it where it is. Have to admit that some of todays conditions are ridiculous with all the various eligibility stuff. Jeez. But I'm showing my age I guess.


You are pretty much correct in the equivalency. And yes, it took two different races that both struggled with filling and combined them to get a race for both categories. The claimers almost always had an edge in those but eventually it seemed to catch up a bit.

They ran a 3OT every 12 -14 days in both short and long and boys and girls. But as the racing got diluted with so many tracks running against each other, they got tougher to fill which prompted the addition of a claiming price.

The 100k was too much back then. Inflation had not caught up. You saw a lot of 35k and even 50k in Md. NY was higher of course. Kings Swan was claimed for 75K I think. Dickie showed NY what he had been doing in Md. for years in claiming horses that he got to win stakes. Honestly, too many to list all the horses he claimed and won a stake with. And some of those claims were 14,500. Lexington Park for starters but many others. I cannot believe Dickie did not get considered for the HOF. Probably Rick and all that went on had something to do with that. You pull up his lifetime stats, and yes, he died early as compared to Delp and Leatherbury who is still at the track betting everyday. I love King. 93 and havin a ball. He is wild.
I'm thinking about writing a letter to the HOF to ask for him to be considered. Compare all 3 stats and tell me why he shouldn't be there when they are. Dying early should be graded on a curve I think. And I know... Spectacular Bid, but he is in. Delp rode in on him.



Hope I got all the questions. Hit me back if I missed any.
Thanks JBEX.

you covered it well str ..thanks

yes definitely from management's perspective have fields too short to have triple betting and public doesn't like to bet them as much anyway. wasn't aware the year round racing was the cause but makes sense

I always felt those high claimers were in general better than the alw nw2ot ..they were a salty bunch of horses and probably many got through first 2 level allowance conditions but not quite good enough to be stakes horses

yes sounds like it's worth a try to write them about Rick..guess the general bias against "primarily" claiming trainers and his shortened career ,as you said, has a lot to do with it not happening

[JBEX]

the army mule we've been following goes in R1 @ kee today..#6 wisconsin gal (5-2)
@ 1pm

[JBEX]

the army mule we've been following goes in R1 @ kee today..#6 wisconsin gal (5-2)
@ 1pm

gets a nice jockey upgrade to frankie dettori