Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

hey str

saratoga has a 7f allowance on 7/20 race that deterministic qualifies for..considering he broke his maiden there same distance first time out you'd have to think that would be an appealing spot ..if his performance is impressive they might consider giving the allen jerkens (7f,G1,3yo) a shot 5 weeks later ..can you see them considering this path if the horse is training well ? being out of a speightstown mare he might be a better 1 turn horse anyway

I am sure that Clement has seen this and I would think that if the horse is training fine, and unless there is something we don't know about, it seems like the most logical spot you could want. Because at least IMO, his next race is such a make it or break it race for Deterministic mentally, everything needs to be exactly right . Hopefully it is .

What you are doing JBEX is getting well into the mind of what a trainer tries to do. It's a different view isn't it?

Now imagine have 40-70 horses and trying to oversee all of them, all their needs and wants, plus all your workers, payrolls, owners questions and entertaining them every racing day, plus making travel arrangements for all the sales this fall, and a family with kids and trying to bet and gamble on horses everyday. No chance right?

I can tell you now that I always found that any trainer I saw trying to do that was doing a poor job doing what I listed above. you cannot be both or all.

Well years ago when I started this thread, folks would question me or even just not really believe me when I told them that I was just too busy with all that is going on to spend any time handicapping even if I saw a tremendous bias or anything that would give me an edge. This is also why I have told many gamblers that wonder if trainers all bet and win. Heck NO ! They are lousy betters because they just never had the time to learn how to do it correctly. If a trainer bets his horse, more often than not its an across the board bet or win. Something very simple that has taken 30 seconds tops to come up with. They simply do not have enough time in the day to deal with it.
Well, this was a perfect opportunity to explain what I have said in the past. You simply do not have time to put effort into it. Could you imagine an owner of yours coming up to you and asking a question with 4 minutes to post while your horse is warming up and you say,
" give me a minute, I need to see what the exactas are paying on the 7 horse on top and underneath". LOLOL. I can here the van backing up to the chute to move those owners horses already. Hahaha.

Great question JBEX as you really set me up for that story. I appreciate it. And great work climbing into the trainers shoes as to thought process. That's good stuff my man.

[JBEX]

I am sure that Clement has seen this and I would think that if the horse is training fine, and unless there is something we don't know about, it seems like the most logical spot you could want. Because at least IMO, his next race is such a make it or break it race for Deterministic mentally, everything needs to be exactly right . Hopefully it is .

What you are doing JBEX is getting well into the mind of what a trainer tries to do. It's a different view isn't it?

Now imagine have 40-70 horses and trying to oversee all of them, all their needs and wants, plus all your workers, payrolls, owners questions and entertaining them every racing day, plus making travel arrangements for all the sales this fall, and a family with kids and trying to bet and gamble on horses everyday. No chance right?

I can tell you now that I always found that any trainer I saw trying to do that was doing a poor job doing what I listed above. you cannot be both or all.

Well years ago when I started this thread, folks would question me or even just not really believe me when I told them that I was just too busy with all that is going on to spend any time handicapping even if I saw a tremendous bias or anything that would give me an edge. This is also why I have told many gamblers that wonder if trainers all bet and win. Heck NO ! They are lousy betters because they just never had the time to learn how to do it correctly. If a trainer bets his horse, more often than not its an across the board bet or win. Something very simple that has taken 30 seconds tops to come up with. They simply do not have enough time in the day to deal with it.
Well, this was a perfect opportunity to explain what I have said in the past. You simply do not have time to put effort into it. Could you imagine an owner of yours coming up to you and asking a question with 4 minutes to post while your horse is warming up and you say,
" give me a minute, I need to see what the exactas are paying on the 7 horse on top and underneath". LOLOL. I can here the van backing up to the chute to move those owners horses already. Hahaha.

Great question JBEX as you really set me up for that story. I appreciate it. And great work climbing into the trainers shoes as to thought process. That's good stuff my man.

thanks str

since we follow 3 horses I find it kind of fun on occasion to try and guess what direction they might be heading..
this of course only knowing the peripheral info and not how the horse is doing from up close ..be interesting to see where KB turns up next and wouldn't be surprised (if doing well) that WR next stop might be the amsterdam stakes (G2/6.5f/3yo/sar)..that would be a 2 month break since his msw win at churchill .. maybe they'd rather opt for an allowance race instead..probably a call you need to be first hand to make..with his pedigree skies the limit with for his potential ..we will see


think there's a good chance deterministic's connections also feel that this is crucial point in his career for him to succeed .. so from that perspective doing something he's familiar with makes even more sense .. I have a hunch that this is going to be his niche and it's not really a stretch considering what his big efforts were

yes can only imagine how difficult it is to pay attention to all those details for a large stable of any level of horses..certainly need lots of good people in all aspects of the organization to make it work..even then still an incredibly stressful and difficult thing to run .. attention to lot's of little details with the horse's probably makes a big difference and sure others who work directly with them play a big part in how successful the stable is ..too much to be on top of everything first hand for the trainer

[batt33]

I am sure that Clement has seen this and I would think that if the horse is training fine, and unless there is something we don't know about, it seems like the most logical spot you could want. Because at least IMO, his next race is such a make it or break it race for Deterministic mentally, everything needs to be exactly right . Hopefully it is .

What you are doing JBEX is getting well into the mind of what a trainer tries to do. It's a different view isn't it?

Now imagine have 40-70 horses and trying to oversee all of them, all their needs and wants, plus all your workers, payrolls, owners questions and entertaining them every racing day, plus making travel arrangements for all the sales this fall, and a family with kids and trying to bet and gamble on horses everyday. No chance right?

I can tell you now that I always found that any trainer I saw trying to do that was doing a poor job doing what I listed above. you cannot be both or all.

Well years ago when I started this thread, folks would question me or even just not really believe me when I told them that I was just too busy with all that is going on to spend any time handicapping even if I saw a tremendous bias or anything that would give me an edge. This is also why I have told many gamblers that wonder if trainers all bet and win. Heck NO ! They are lousy betters because they just never had the time to learn how to do it correctly. If a trainer bets his horse, more often than not its an across the board bet or win. Something very simple that has taken 30 seconds tops to come up with. They simply do not have enough time in the day to deal with it.
Well, this was a perfect opportunity to explain what I have said in the past. You simply do not have time to put effort into it. Could you imagine an owner of yours coming up to you and asking a question with 4 minutes to post while your horse is warming up and you say,
" give me a minute, I need to see what the exactas are paying on the 7 horse on top and underneath". LOLOL. I can here the van backing up to the chute to move those owners horses already. Hahaha.

Great question JBEX as you really set me up for that story. I appreciate it. And great work climbing into the trainers shoes as to thought process. That's good stuff my man.

great post!

[batt33]

thanks str

since we follow 3 horses I find it kind of fun on occasion to try and guess what direction they might be heading..
this of course only knowing the peripheral info and not how the horse is doing from up close ..be interesting to see where KB turns up next and wouldn't be surprised (if doing well) that WR next stop might be the amsterdam stakes (G2/6.5f/3yo/sar)..that would be a 2 month break since his msw win at churchill .. maybe they'd rather opt for an allowance race instead..probably a call you need to be first hand to make..with his pedigree skies the limit with for his potential ..we will see


think there's a good chance deterministic's connections also feel that this is crucial point in his career for him to succeed .. so from that perspective doing something he's familiar with makes even more sense .. I have a hunch that this is going to be his niche and it's not really a stretch considering what his big efforts were

yes can only imagine how difficult it is to pay attention to all those details for a large stable of any level of horses..certainly need lots of good people in all aspects of the organization to make it work..even then still an incredibly stressful and difficult thing to run .. attention to lot's of little details with the horse's probably makes a big difference and sure others who work directly with them play a big part in how successful the stable is ..too much to be on top of everything first hand for the trainer

and another ! Enjoy following along!

[JBEX]

and another ! Enjoy following along!

good deal batt(s) (think of the goodfellas character with your username lol) ..especially having shares in a myracehorse partnership something that would be interesting

[batt33]

haha thanks JBEX! I retired as a battalion chief in fire .. hence batt.... But even in retirement... they are in need of help... with my quals that I have I'm still on a national Incident management team..... mentoring training my replacements Hopefully to be a "safety officer emiratus"
called in to play when they need help!

[batt33]

and as STR said he as others enjoyed up dates so here we go!
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Visceral Workout Report
[/COLOR]https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/IMG8883_1718390106924/MP4/IMG8883_1718390106924.mp4
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]
[/COLOR]Visceral turned in a very solid work this morning at Santa Anita. With the extension blinker he had been wearing removed, he cruised through a half in :49.40 (17/34) straighter than ever. Diego Herrera was up and thought he felt great.

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Straight No Chaser Update

The dirt allowance for Straight No Chaser failed to fill again yesterday for Sunday, closing day at Santa Anita. The turf extra was used, but after further conversation with trainer Dan Blacker we opted not to enter. Your colt will be trained up to the G1 Bing Crosby at Del Mar on July 27th. Ultimately, Dan felt he would benefit from more time between his races and did not feel it was the right time to try him again on the turf. We can’t argue with his reasoning despite preferring him to have another race leading up to that.
With six weeks until the Bing Crosby, Dan may opt to bypass this weekends work but we will leave that decision up to him.

[/COLOR]

[JBEX]

haha thanks JBEX! I retired as a battalion chief in fire .. hence batt.... But even in retirement... they are in need of help... with my quals that I have I'm still on a national Incident management team..... mentoring training my replacements Hopefully to be a "safety officer emiratus"
called in to play when they need help!

thanks for your service batt (i'll go singular from here lol)


looks like your avatar might have been an incident you were involved with .. great they think of you in such high regard to consider "emeritus" status and that you can stay useful to help mentor new people and when situations arise..very nice honor !

went to my racehorse site and saw what they called "the new york bred bundle"..you get the diversification of 4 horses including 1 by liam's map the sire of deterministic ..
impressed with the partner,trainers,pedigrees and you get to run as a ny bred with lots of statebred stakes opportunities and big purses in general ..could see that partnership producing at least 1 good one

[str]

haha thanks JBEX! I retired as a battalion chief in fire .. hence batt.... But even in retirement... they are in need of help... with my quals that I have I'm still on a national Incident management team..... mentoring training my replacements Hopefully to be a "safety officer emiratus"
called in to play when they need help!

That is a heck of a thing Batt.

Thank you for your service and work doing that. You should be very proud.

[str]

and as STR said he as others enjoyed up dates so here we go!
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Visceral Workout Report
[/COLOR]https://cdnb-media.myracehorse.com/blog/video/IMG8883_1718390106924/MP4/IMG8883_1718390106924.mp4
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)][/COLOR]Visceral turned in a very solid work this morning at Santa Anita. With the extension blinker he had been wearing removed, he cruised through a half in :49.40 (17/34) straighter than ever. Diego Herrera was up and thought he felt great.

[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Straight No Chaser Update

The dirt allowance for Straight No Chaser failed to fill again yesterday for Sunday, closing day at Santa Anita. The turf extra was used, but after further conversation with trainer Dan Blacker we opted not to enter. Your colt will be trained up to the G1 Bing Crosby at Del Mar on July 27th. Ultimately, Dan felt he would benefit from more time between his races and did not feel it was the right time to try him again on the turf. We can’t argue with his reasoning despite preferring him to have another race leading up to that.
With six weeks until the Bing Crosby, Dan may opt to bypass this weekends work but we will leave that decision up to him.

[/COLOR]

I do enjoy these. Reminds me being back at the barn or trackside in the morning watching the horses train.

This is educational stuff for every fan as they get little pieces of what goes on and how the trainer might be thinking and building towards between races.

[batt33]

thanks for your service batt (i'll go singular from here lol)


looks like your avatar might have been an incident you were involved with .. great they think of you in such high regard to consider "emeritus" status and that you can stay useful to help mentor new people and when situations arise..very nice honor !

went to my racehorse site and saw what they called "the new york bred bundle"..you get the diversification of 4 horses including 1 by liam's map the sire of deterministic ..
impressed with the partner,trainers,pedigrees and you get to run as a ny bred with lots of statebred stakes opportunities and big purses in general ..could see that partnership producing at least 1 good one

Thanks JBEX!
haha Yes, the Avatar was on a fire when mother nature was showing who is boss.... I was monitoring the "Tac " frequencies making sure everyone was paying attention and in a safe spot....

I saw the "New York bundle" but decided not to"invest" I think it is a great idea for people who are into horse racing and want to have a "piece of the action" just like me haha... for ENJOYMENT!! just like any other hobby or activity. The MRH ownership is 51% so I kinda shy away from that... I look at horses that have at least 80% MRH ownership of the horse... or on the west coast...
Seize the Grey is a 100% owned horse by MRH
Visceral is 51% but on the west coast and I was looking to fill a niche in my stable
Straight no chaser 100 % my race horse
Caldera by Liams map going to lukas 100% MRH
uhm okay I have a few other horses also
Rylee's Song '22
Isle Blue
Straight to Glory
Lady Blitz

[batt33]

I do enjoy these. Reminds me being back at the barn or trackside in the morning watching the horses train.

This is educational stuff for every fan as they get little pieces of what goes on and how the trainer might be thinking and building towards between races.

Thanks STR! just let me know if I'm over the top in posting...

So I just posted about some other horses I have....and here is one that has had some issues and the thought processes of the owner and trainer
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Lady Blitz Update
[/COLOR]
It’s been an eventful last two weeks, as the first dynamic scope footage taken of Lady Blitz vanished. As a result, she breezed three-eighths and out a half-mile last Wednesday at Wavertree Stables while equipped with the dynamic scope once more. By design, she was asked from the get-go to get a good read of her throat function at full speed. Her attending vet, Dr. Andrew Smith of Peterson and Smith, believes the left side of her throat is not functioning quite as well as the right and she could be a candidate for a tie-back.
Dr. Jeff Berk, MyRacehorse’s resident veterinarian, was able to review the footage for the first time today and agreed with Dr. Smith’s assessment, but wanted Ocala Equine's Dr. John Madison--who is considered the throat expert--to weigh in with his opinion. Dr. Madison’s feedback on the footage was: “The filly is able to maintain decent abduction of the left arytenoid galloping, but eventually in the breeze she begins to dynamically collapse the left arytenoid.” Dr. Madison does feel like she is early in the process, but believes the exam is consistent with left laryngeal hemiplegia (partial or loss of arytenoid abduction) and agrees given the inspiratory noise that she should be a candidate for a tie-back.
Lady Blitz has always been a very good workhorse for about half-mile, and her throat issue could explain the lack of finish in longer works and races. There is no guarantee that the throat explains her slightly disappoint form as a 2-year-old, but we believe we have enough information to warrant the surgery. Tie-back surgeries have about a 70% success rate and while this would set us back a little bit longer than we would like, it also gives us some hope that she can blossom into the horse she showed flashes of in the past.
We'll look to get a surgery scheduled as soon as possible with Dr. Madison and report back once something is lined up.
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Lady Blitz Update

Lady Blitz is scheduled for a tie-back surgery on May 30th with Dr. Madison of the Ocala Equine Hospital. This was the earliest we were able to get your filly in with Dr. Madison but he is one of the best, if not the best when it comes to throat procedures.
[COLOR=rgba(77, 76, 76, 0.9)]Lady Blitz Surgery Report[/COLOR]

Lady Blitz underwent a successful tie-back surgery on Thursday. Upon the recommendation of Dr. John Madison, Lady Blitz will need to be confined to a stall with hand walking for the next 30 days. She will be re-scoped at the time of suture removal and then again 30 days from surgery before being cleared to resume training. The purpose of being re-scoped is to be sure the abduction of the arytenoid has been maintained. Overall, about 70% of the horses that have a tie-back surgery will perform up to their capability, but we felt it was crucial to do this in order to have that chance. The next 30 days will be quiet as she relaxes during her recovery, but we will remain in contact with Ciaran Dunne and provide updates as we get them.

And as Always I respect and enjoy your thoughts on what I have posted!


[/COLOR]

[batt33]

That is a heck of a thing Batt.

Thank you for your service and work doing that. You should be very proud.

Thanks STR..... I am.... I've had some very humbling experiences in my career.....
from a lady in her 80's maybe 90's wondering why I was there with my engine to "protect " her home.... but " another agency not to be named" said my house wasn't important as those million dollar homes" mam... this is YOUR MILLION dollar home and I feel safe with my crew protecting it.... and then here comes milk and cookies!
IN southern california on a fire... and doing our job..... everyone and their friends family kept bringing us food.... and wouldn't take no for an answer ugh....all of a sudden I had an engine compartment designated for pies and cookies..... another for snacks potato chips... nuts...etc and another for drinks....( and no adult ones) haha
During the shuttle recovery..... we had an astronaut show up at our morning briefing before we flew out to our grid... just in awe how quickly we mobilized and engaged with nasa to recover the shuttle.... HE asked what can I / nasa do for you..... I stood up and said "get the shuttle flying again" he came over gave me a hug.....

[JBEX]

hey str

another scenario with deterministic..they decide to wait for the resumption of the baq meet to run him next..logic is he'll probably meet an easier field and it's the other track he's won over..understand he lost twice going 2 turns but won the gotham going one and the latter is what they'll be looking to do with him

on the other hand clement feels he'd be ready to run in time for the saratoga allowance race I mentioned a few days ago..could it be detrimental to keep him on the sidelines till sept or october waiting for the easier spot at baq ?

maybe ,in addition, they feel if he's extra impressive going 7f -1 mile at the baq meet they might take a shot at the G2 cigar mile late nov/early dec ...it's also at aqu for those unfamiliar with the race

[str]

hey str

another scenario with deterministic..they decide to wait for the resumption of the baq meet to run him next..logic is he'll probably meet an easier field and it's the other track he's won over..understand he lost twice going 2 turns but won the gotham going one and the latter is what they'll be looking to do with him

on the other hand clement feels he'd be ready to run in time for the saratoga allowance race I mentioned a few days ago..could it be detrimental to keep him on the sidelines till sept or october waiting for the easier spot at baq ?

maybe ,in addition, they feel if he's extra impressive going 7f -1 mile at the baq meet they might take a shot at the G2 cigar mile late nov/early dec ...it's also at aqu for those unfamiliar with the race

Whichever avenue Clement went with is already in motion in all probability. He had to determine a course of training within about 2 weeks of that last race. He can always re-adjust backwards but most likely not forward. I have not seen the workout tab so I have no idea. In most instances, within that first 10 days or so, he has tried to let the horse tell him as well as his gut tell him.
Clement is so good at this kind of thing that Deterministic will be given every opportunity to shine if he can.

You see first hand the various routes to choose that Clement has already reviewed. We will see soon enough. What a great job it will have been if he can get this horse back on track. I hope so.
Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

Whichever avenue Clement went with is already in motion in all probability. He had to determine a course of training within about 2 weeks of that last race. He can always re-adjust backwards but most likely not forward. I have not seen the workout tab so I have no idea. In most instances, within that first 10 days or so, he has tried to let the horse tell him as well as his gut tell him.
Clement is so good at this kind of thing that Deterministic will be given every opportunity to shine if he can.

You see first hand the various routes to choose that Clement has already reviewed. We will see soon enough. What a great job it will have been if he can get this horse back on track. I hope so.
Thanks JBEX.

no problem str and appreciate the feedback

they worked him a slow 4f dirt bel tt (51+/192 of 196) on 6/1 and 5f turf saratoga tt (1:01+/ 1 of 3) 2 days ago



interesting on 7/5 @ baq (an option I didn't consider) they have 2 of the conditions he's eligible for in back to back races (not fillies or statebreds..was careful lol) ..amazingly enough it's the extremes in distance @ 6f and 9f ..doubt they'd do the former and questionable the latter .. we both feel 7f-1 mile would be the most likely




.






.

[str]

no problem str and appreciate the feedback

they worked him a slow 4f dirt bel tt (51+/192 of 196) on 6/1 and 5f turf saratoga tt (1:01+/ 1 of 3) 2 days ago



interesting on 7/5 @ baq (an option I didn't consider) they have 2 of the conditions he's eligible for in back to back races (not fillies or statebreds..was careful lol) ..amazingly enough it's the extremes in distance @ 6f and 9f ..doubt they'd do the former and questionable the latter .. we both feel 7f-1 mile would be the most likely




.






.

That turf work was likely just something Clement wanted to try and see how it went. His next work will likely start pointing in a direction. You never know, but that seems to make as much sense as of now as anything we would speculate.

[JBEX]

That turf work was likely just something Clement wanted to try and see how it went. His next work will likely start pointing in a direction. You never know, but that seems to make as much sense as of now as anything we would speculate.

dam was a multiple turf sprint winner (her only wins) so that probably explains the work..have to think this might be a 1 turn horse

[JBEX]

dam was a multiple turf sprint winner (her only wins) so that probably explains the work..have to think this might be a 1 turn horse

I guess if you're going to explore the possibilities of him being a route horse you would point in that direction to start ..if it doesn't work out then go back to sprints

[str]

dam was a multiple turf sprint winner (her only wins) so that probably explains the work..have to think this might be a 1 turn horse

I guess if you're going to explore the possibilities of him being a route horse you would point in that direction to start ..if it doesn't work out then go back to sprints

Agree. It is shaping up to be that in all probability, at least so far. But 7/8ths or a mile turf AND around one turn is a tough fit. Something will have to work out. Think we will start to see soon enough.
Thanks JBEX

[JBEX]

Agree. It is shaping up to be that in all probability, at least so far. But 7/8ths or a mile turf AND around one turn is a tough fit. Something will have to work out. Think we will start to see soon enough.
Thanks JBEX

no problem str..maybe part of the reason he struggles settling into the 1st turn is the bottom of his pedigree ..it's not what the dam was used to doing..have a hunch clement's going to get him right going 1 turn ..we'll see if it's saratoga soon enough

[Madison]

Mr STR,

Would you kindly/briefly help me understand the impact of high temperatures and high humidity on the consistency/effect it has on the horses?

Thx!

[str]

Mr STR,

Would you kindly/briefly help me understand the impact of high temperatures and high humidity on the consistency/effect it has on the horses?

Thx!

Sure. Do know that the heat impact on any horse is pretty big. And with most horses running on Lasix, it can even be bigger. Horsemen go to great lengths to do everything possible to keep the horse in as good a place as possible. This has gotten even better in the last 20 years from when I was there and we were all better than the 20 years previously I was told. So new ideas and ways to keep a horse cool and comfortable are being tried all the time.
The bottom line is, that when it is hot, you want to see the horse with a little sweat on their neck or hind leg area when warming up. They are just like people in that, sweating will help cool them down a little.

Typically a horse will be raced less often if they have lost weight or struggled with the heat simply because it takes longer for them to get back on their feed and have the energy you want to see from each horse. And while that's typically a little different with each horse, you get to know the horse and look to see consistency. If there is something not quite right, they might have more time between races to help physically recover. Not from a sore knee, ankle or whatever, but more to recover from weight loss, loss of apatite, lower energy, etc.

We learn to know our horses so well that we know where they sleep in the stall, where they like to stand, laydown, or not, and all the little stuff you wouldn't think of. But just like a little kid, if they are not exactly themselves, mom or dad will pick up on it pretty quickly. So will exercise riders, grooms, trainers while viewing them, etc. And because we are all looking harder for it than usual in the heat, not much gets past a good horseman with quality help.

There are horses that are non sweaters, meaning exactly what it says. They do not sweat. These horses won't run a lick in the heat. They can't perform. So if you see a horse that usually goes way off form or sits out from June until Sept., good chance that is why. Every track will have one or two most likely.

But from a betting standpoint, you want to look for a horse that is maybe a little wet on the neck while warming up but not dripping wet. That's too much.

And most that do so can be consistent and be just fine in those hot months. A dull listless horse is not a real good sign but you need to know the horse to make that judgement. You can talk yourself off a winner or two thinking you see something that is just common for that horse. So don't overread it.

Hope that helps.

Follow up if you have any questions.

[JBEX]

hey str

like your opinion of what you think happened with

#6 queen anna t

in the stretch R9 @ CD..stalked the pace most of the way and looked like he was done at the 3/16th pole but came again fairly strongy around the 1/16th pole to finish 3rd..surprised he had any horse at that point ?

[str]

hey str

like your opinion of what you think happened with

#6 queen anna t

in the stretch R9 @ CD..stalked the pace most of the way and looked like he was done at the 3/16th pole but came again fairly strongy around the 1/16th pole to finish 3rd..surprised he had any horse at that point ?

Oh man JBEX. I kind of like this one.

I looked around a little but could not see her previous form going into yesterday. If you can shed some light on that it would be great.

Would love to see her other race or races. Also, I saw she was claimed. If I had claimed her I would be salivating over running her back for 25k maidens going a mile or 1 1/16th, and depending on what type of bit she had ( couldn't see it well enough to identify it but the trainer that claimed her surely knows) maybe adjusting that bit slightly to help with the lugging in. That's why Ortiz kept the stick in his left hand.

But the bit might not matter as she looked off THAT race that she is screaming for blinkers. Why? Because when he right eye was clear she had her head down. Then, when the horse got into that right eye, her head went up, which means she cannot possibly run as fast as she was plus her mind is now on the horse next to her instead of winning. Then... Ortiz was really just finishing the race but her head went back down ( it is slight but it IS there. Try and see it. Might help to watch the white blaze down near her nose for height difference). So When her right eye got clear and as that horse to her right came close to her towards the end, she kicked on again on her own , probably not wanting to be pinned again but mainly being freed up from that other horse in her eye . She lost focus of winning when that horse pinned her right eye.

Who is Andrew McKeever and his stats as well as Matt Shirer? Old and new trainer. Want to see those full stats as well.

Let's keep a close eye, no pun intended on her JBEX. Next out could be reward time for work put in by you.

Please keep me posted. Thanks, and GREAT catch most likely in honor of the GREAT Willie Mays.

[Madison]

Mr STR,

Would you kindly/briefly help me understand the impact of high temperatures and high humidity on the consistency/effect it has on the horses?

Thx!

Thank you sir!!

[str]

Oh man JBEX. I kind of like this one.

I looked around a little but could not see her previous form going into yesterday. If you can shed some light on that it would be great.

Would love to see her other race or races. Also, I saw she was claimed. If I had claimed her I would be salivating over running her back for 25k maidens going a mile or 1 1/16th, and depending on what type of bit she had ( couldn't see it well enough to identify it but the trainer that claimed her surely knows) maybe adjusting that bit slightly to help with the lugging in. That's why Ortiz kept the stick in his left hand.

But the bit might not matter as she looked off THAT race that she is screaming for blinkers. Why? Because when he right eye was clear she had her head down. Then, when the horse got into that right eye, her head went up, which means she cannot possibly run as fast as she was plus her mind is now on the horse next to her instead of winning. Then... Ortiz was really just finishing the race but her head went back down ( it is slight but it IS there. Try and see it. Might help to watch the white blaze down near her nose for height difference). So When her right eye got clear and as that horse to her right came close to her towards the end, she kicked on again on her own , probably not wanting to be pinned again but mainly being freed up from that other horse in her eye . She lost focus of winning when that horse pinned her right eye.

Who is Andrew McKeever and his stats as well as Matt Shirer? Old and new trainer. Want to see those full stats as well.

Let's keep a close eye, no pun intended on her JBEX. Next out could be reward time for work put in by you.

Please keep me posted. Thanks, and GREAT catch most likely in honor of the GREAT Willie Mays.

My mistake. She was NOT claimed. Everything else I stand by. Gotta Know when she runs back.

[JBEX]

Oh man JBEX. I kind of like this one.

I looked around a little but could not see her previous form going into yesterday. If you can shed some light on that it would be great.

Would love to see her other race or races. Also, I saw she was claimed. If I had claimed her I would be salivating over running her back for 25k maidens going a mile or 1 1/16th, and depending on what type of bit she had ( couldn't see it well enough to identify it but the trainer that claimed her surely knows) maybe adjusting that bit slightly to help with the lugging in. That's why Ortiz kept the stick in his left hand.

But the bit might not matter as she looked off THAT race that she is screaming for blinkers. Why? Because when he right eye was clear she had her head down. Then, when the horse got into that right eye, her head went up, which means she cannot possibly run as fast as she was plus her mind is now on the horse next to her instead of winning. Then... Ortiz was really just finishing the race but her head went back down ( it is slight but it IS there. Try and see it. Might help to watch the white blaze down near her nose for height difference). So When her right eye got clear and as that horse to her right came close to her towards the end, she kicked on again on her own , probably not wanting to be pinned again but mainly being freed up from that other horse in her eye . She lost focus of winning when that horse pinned her right eye.

Who is Andrew McKeever and his stats as well as Matt Shirer? Old and new trainer. Want to see those full stats as well.

Let's keep a close eye, no pun intended on her JBEX. Next out could be reward time for work put in by you.

Please keep me posted. Thanks, and GREAT catch most likely in honor of the GREAT Willie Mays.

thanks str

very sad news about willie and I think on scale he's got me beat by a bit ..one of the greatest grabs of all time for sure


definitely see what you're talking about with the head going up when her eye was covered (horse to her right)..I agree at the1/16th pole she probably didn't want horses pulling up alongside her and had another gear ..so wearing blinkers she might have just continued head down and with the way she responded at the 1/16th pole might have won the race ? so it'd be a good follow and to play you want to see blinkers on ..i'll add it to my stable but as usual this never seems to work for me


I don't believe she was claimed looking at the chart but maybe I missed it

[str]

thanks str

very sad news about willie and I think on scale he's got me beat by a bit ..one of the greatest grabs of all time for sure


definitely see what you're talking about with the head going up when her eye was covered (horse to her right)..I agree at the1/16th pole she probably didn't want horses pulling up alongside her and had another gear ..so wearing blinkers she might have just continued head down and with the way she responded at the 1/16th pole might have won the race ? so it'd be a good follow and to play you want to see blinkers on ..i'll add it to my stable but as usual this never seems to work for me


I don't believe she was claimed looking at the chart but maybe I missed it

She lost concentration for quite a while when headed outside. Must look hard at her when she shows back up.

Not claimed. I screwed that up. My mistake.

[JBEX]

She lost concentration for quite a while when headed outside. Must look hard at her when she shows back up.

Not claimed. I screwed that up. My mistake.

got me to thinking of the similarities between this situation and that of WR .. newbie and relative newbie (1st and 2nd starts) had subtle obstacles (kickback and covered eye) which lead to efforts that are better than what will show in the pp's for their next start

[str]

got me to thinking of the similarities between this situation and that of WR .. newbie and relative newbie (1st and 2nd starts) had subtle obstacles (kickback and covered eye) which lead to efforts that are better than what will show in the pp's for their next start

Absolutely JBEX. When I trained, I was unable to bet with the time restraints but what I was doing was betting by Claiming the maiden or horse (especially fillies and mares) that I spotted doing this. Kind of the same thing as betting but actually hoping they would lose when I claimed them so as to keep the condition. That served me really well.

You still need the horse to run in the right spot and add the blks. ON but I have to think Ortiz told the trainer if he/she didn't recognize it. Ortiz was surprised as anyone when this horse came again late. If all goes well, this is a hidden gem in the waiting next out.

And if anyone is wondering ,no, they don't ALL win. But enough do so as to make the play very worthwhile in the long run. It's value, plain and simple.
Great find JBEX.

[JBEX]

Absolutely JBEX. When I trained, I was unable to bet with the time restraints but what I was doing was betting by Claiming the maiden or horse (especially fillies and mares) that I spotted doing this. Kind of the same thing as betting but actually hoping they would lose when I claimed them so as to keep the condition. That served me really well.

You still need the horse to run in the right spot and add the blks. ON but I have to think Ortiz told the trainer if he/she didn't recognize it. Ortiz was surprised as anyone when this horse came again late. If all goes well, this is a hidden gem in the waiting next out.

And if anyone is wondering ,no, they don't ALL win. But enough do so as to make the play very worthwhile in the long run. It's value, plain and simple.
Great find JBEX.

thanks str

yes that would be a great way to use that info and a real homerun if they don't win the race so there eligible for that condition again..guess if it were a clm n2l
wouldn't be a bad thing either as even if they win the next step up is reasonable ..if not you have two conditions they are eligible for

not an automatic next out ,as you said, but something that's an edge situation long haul which is all you can ask for

guess whether you're claiming or betting it can be an advantageous situation more-so than the typical kind of trouble that's easier to spot ..no room,blocked etc

[str]

thanks str

yes that would be a great way to use that info and a real homerun if they don't win the race so there eligible for that condition again..guess if it were a clm n2l
wouldn't be a bad thing either as even if they win the next step up is reasonable ..if not you have two conditions they are eligible for

not an automatic next out ,as you said, but something that's an edge situation long haul which is all you can ask for.


guess whether you're claiming or betting it can be an advantageous situation more-so than the typical kind of trouble that's easier to spot ..no room,blocked etc

Answer 1. After about 2-3 years training, I was getting more and more horses and the vast majority were claimers. Trying to pile up wins and more horses, and having piled up money in the horseman's accounts from wins and profit, I knew that if I found a maiden, similar to something like this, that was running for let's say, 5k to 10K, I could claim it, and pretty much insure myself of three wins. The maiden, the n/w2 and the n/w 3. Those nw/2 and 3 were a new twist in the condition book because of the horse shortage which was not a horse shortage at all but the fact that Maryland had switched to summer racing as had other places. So Delaware Atl. City and Monmouth were open but so was Md. Penn Nat. C.T. Keystone, etc.. Once I asked the racing secretary if they were here to stay and he said yes, I put the plan into motion. Before that, you had to go straight to open claimers so claiming maidens was really risky business. But when the beaten races came into play, it was great and not that many people realized it .Answer 1.
Many of these horses were trained by trainers that just did not have the financial backing and/or the overall experience. Or they trained on a farm and shipped in.
So I would take my share of those . Once they won all they could ( 1,2,3) races, I had a choice of trying open company, which some could handle but some could not. I would look to sell those that just did not have the talent to a C.T. trainer, knowing they had n/w 4 and could race for 2,500 or 3,500. And plenty of them could win at C.T. for 5k.
They paid for themselves, the owners won some races, and it worked . Plenty of the 2 or 3 year olds were able to compete for 6,500,8,500 or higher in open 2 or 3 year old races in Md. No all of them, but enough did to make it worth doing for owners. Remember, I was always working with case money. No rich claiming clients that had no problem losing money. So it had to make sense.


Answer 2.Yes. And surprisingly, not that many trainers were doing that in the late 70's and 80's. There were a lot of mom and pop type outfits back then. Not that many trainers paid that much attention to each race. Because I was such good friends with some young jockeys, we would get together for a happy hour or something like that after the races and talk about this stuff, I was able to learn a lot from them about what riders are thinking about during a race. That gave me, over time, a unique two way perspective of what was going on in a race. Man did I learn a lot from those riders.
It was really a form of betting within itself. And I was unique because I was not a pure horseman or a pure gambler, but understood both sides of the fence. All I did was incorporate gambling into claims that showed a possible monetary upside along with using my horseman skills I learned from dickie to work it from that angle.

I really did enjoy that part of it. Kind of like being a bettor and a horseman both.

[JBEX]

that's amazing that you were always (or almost) able to get them through all those conditions with the n/w 2 and 3l
races..then if they couldn't win vs opens they could be useful horses for another trainer at CT
at lower tags or possibly the same .. excellent cycle for a lower level claiming stable ..also cool to know that part of evaluating claims was watching races and seeing things like we saw at churchill


I seem to remember not seeing many of those n/w claiming races around 30 years ago.. ..nyra and gulfstream had very tough open claiming races..believe florida(at least GP) and definitely ny were higher quality then ky back then
..were clm nw in a certain amount of time around before the clm lifetime conditions? my guess from experience would be yes

[str]

In honor of Uncle Heavy running in the Ohio Derby today, Here is a picture of the real uncle heavy, the horses namesake Mark Reid as a groom for Dick Dutrow in 1975. Mark went on to become the king of Keystone winning thousands of races as a trainer. This is Pimlico and CJ is the rider. Can't remember if he still had the bug or not.

What a great guy Mark was and still is.