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Man Sonnen fights are so boring to watch. And my instincts tell me the line is pretty right on this fight, so tell me why am I wasting my time?Comment -
How is the line set right with Sonnen having a losing record as a LHW (no significant wins what so ever to speak of) and when his only way to victory is to do something to Shogun that so far no one has managed in his entire career which is to ground him.
Shogun on the other hand is in there with someone who mentally quits when pushed and who isn't any kind of threat at all standing or on the ground.
Shogun has gassed in fights yes but that's due to absorbing stupid amounts of damage on the feet, Sonnen spent 24 minutes with Silva and Weidman did more damage with his less then a minute worth of GNP than Sonnen managed in his 24.Comment -
Who has Shogun fought recently with this kind of style? Maybe Marc Coleman in 2009 or Randleman in 06. This is the worst kind of style for Shogun who is one of the more easier guys to get taken down. I mean a 50 year old Coleman was bringing him down. I love Shogun and think when he is on he is a beast, but the guy is to unpredictable. The Shogun who fought Machida was a bad man. His last fights seem to be a lot more focused. To unpredictable of a fight for my liking. I hate to see Shogun get smothered to death because nobody really gets up when Chael gets on top of them. Being at 205 may help Shogun a little but a gun to my head i would take Cheal but then again who knows where Sonnens head is at the moment. To many risks on each side in this one. Live betting to me would be the risk i would take. See how the first round goes and see the game plans and see if Shogun is on his back the first five minutes.Comment -
Ground him as in keeping him down? Or taking him down? Because we've seen you don't have to keep Shogun down to beat him, but taking him down repeatedly, wearing him out seems to marginalize his greatest asset (and wins rounds on some judge's cards eh Mr. Wonderful?). I imagine that's the concern, not that he's just gonna let someone lay on him for 5rds, but that the chances and his ability to T/KO Sonnen go down the more he has to expend energy getting back up/preventing takedowns.
What do you mean quits when pushed? Pushed as in hit hard/repeatedly? Or when someone pushes/dictates the pace of the fight? Shogun certainly has the ability to end it, but again I imagine the concern is Sonnen is the type to push the pace and Shogun hasn't historically responded well to that.
What's the correct line?Comment -
See this is the thing you people fail to grasp, it's the exact same Shogun, it's fairly easy to tell who on here roll on a regular basis and have a understanding of fighting, and who are going by footage and dont really understand the other mechanics involved to a fight.Comment -
This UFC is confusing the penetrate out of me. Guys are all these fights free on tv or is it still paperview or what? Thanks.
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Yeah okay dude whatever makes ya happy. Guys like you have favorite fighters u nut hug and it clouds ur vision. Get back to me when u answer my question about when Shogun fought this type of style. The Shogun who has shown many times that he will gas when pressed. U telling me that the same exact Shogun fought Forrest both times?Last edited by Thor4140; 08-12-13, 09:59 AM.Comment -
Because it's called "handicapping", not "factcapping". 'Capping a line is a matter of opinion.
Your logic is also pretty silly. No one's ever taken down and grinded out Conor McGregor, so he should be favoured if he fights Mendes?
More silly logic.Comment -
Anyone going to be betting mcgregor?Comment -
relax my dude, werent you on sherdog going on and on about ellenberger and how rory didnt stand a chance? howd that work out? its one thing to have an opinion and offer some insight or an angle you have on a fight but last time you were talking in absolutes you got buried...Comment -
Michael Jordan is the best baskeball player i ever saw. One of the worst judges of talent i ever saw. With this guys logic Jordan should be nailing blue chipper after blue chipper in the nba draft. i would say at least 40 percent of these fighters are as dumb as a box of rocks. To think they could scout better than most because they "roll" is comical.Comment -
This is a video of conor mcgregors second submission loss. Pretty bad, granted it was in 2010 and i am sure he has improved.Comment -
No, i was the one that when asked said that most likely scenario is Rory by DEC, want me to dig up the post or do you go away by yourself? without getting your legs kicked out from under you?
Can easily flip that around to Chael, or get to talking about how he mentally just shuts down whenever he's pushed.
Shogun is FAR from my favorite fighter, he wouldnt even make a top 20 of fighters i like to watch perform, nor would Ellenberger.
He hasn't 'gassed' from being pressed he's gassed because he's absorbed huge amount of damage that no one is able to absorb without it affecting their cardio. He took how many h-bombs from Hendo? Jones hit him with a knee in his solar plexus that alot of people would have just buckled to and been done there (Chael got hit in the solar against Silva and just quit, as did Bonnar)
Reason he didn't gas in the Machida fight is because it was a technical muay thai clinic where he could hang back and pick his shots like he wanted.
Worth mentioning is that Chael gassed from rd 3 and forward against Silva, slowed down considerably against Bisping and gassed in rd 2 of the Silva fight (prompting his sloppy ass spinning backfist attempt where he just fell on his ass)Last edited by plekz; 08-12-13, 12:27 PM.Comment -
I dont think shogun usually gasses. He gasses sometimes.like when he fought mark coleman and forrest griffin the first time. That was a very long time ago though. I expect him to show up in great shape for chael sonnen. Consider how much trash sonnen has talked about brazil. Shogun probably wants to kick his ass.Comment -
It's worth pointing out that Duffy was a fair bit bigger than him and was a great prospect himself before moving to boxing. Still inexcusable stuff of course. I believe he has improved a lot though. Holloway's ground game was horrible against Poirier but he showed improved TDD vs Bermudez (Schilling fight skews his TDD stats, so wouldn't bother with those). Looking at this fight though there is no way Holloway will look to take the fight to the ground at any point, but McGregor will take a TD if the opening occurs. It's fairly hard to suggest McGregor will be troubled by Holloway's guard. For this fight the only way I really see it going to the ground is if Holloway gets taken down, so the questions should be about his ground game really.
It's an interesting matchup. I'm not going to be betting McGregor at -275 UK price. I'm predicting he's gonna come out with some capoeira. Should be fun.Comment -
[QUOTE=plekz;19364362]No, i was the one that when asked said that most likely scenario is Rory by DEC, want me to dig up the post or do you go away by yourself? without getting your legs kicked out from under you?
stop w/ the lies...you back tracked in that thread also after someone called you out cause conveniently u claimed to be on rory by dec. AFTER the fight was over...u were on ellenberger so hard talking about how could he be +190 dog...all the value was on jake...yadda yadda...and u got buried...do i have to dig up those posts as well?Comment -
[QUOTE=Tommy Blingshyne;19364606]I was asked point blank if i thought that x user should go even heavier on Ellenberger, i answered NO because most likely scenario is Rory by DEC. That was asked on thursday or friday fight week, atleast 24 if not 48 before. I also added that it was because of the camp that Rory comes from more then anything else.
Top post 07-26 you can go eat a dick now we are finished here.Comment -
now go back and post your paragraphs on how could rory be so favored, how jake was better at X and X, how all the value is on jake...are you really pretending like that didnt happen? cmon guy...i get that your trying to cover both sides just in case you fell flat on your face but nobody is buying it...u set yourself up for your downfall by speaking in absolutes like many on these boards do...u were hard on ellenberger and got buried...just take the L...Comment -
At those odds the value was on Jake 100% and i wasn't trying to 'cover' shit it was either going to be Jake by KO/TKO or Rory DEC which is what i wrote more then 24 hours prior to the fight when asked point blank.
This however doesn't change nothing in regards to if the value was on Jake or not, show me a bd on that fight that had Ellenberger mentally shutting down due to a 'jab'
Both fighters fought so completly uncharacteristic to their previous fights it's not even funny, which clearly shows if you read all B/D's that had Rory making Jake 'gass' and him even finishing him by TKO.
Or just keep eating dick and move it the penetrate along, like i said, we are done here.Last edited by plekz; 08-12-13, 01:55 PM.Comment -
just because jake was at + odds doesnt mean the value was on jake...and i did see plenty of people discuss jakes fight IQ or lack thereof and that def. seemed to play a role in the fight w/ rory...also, look at who rory trains with and what camp he fights out of and then tell me about that jab again...no sense in playing monday morning qb w/ you tho...youre not trying to gather and share info...youre clearly a MMA betting guru that watches tape of fighters and understands all the nuances of the game unlike the rest of us...youre rolling right past us all...Comment -
depending on your cable provider you may not be able to watch them...i know direct tv still hasnt finalized a deal...im sure theyll solve the issue come fight night but as of now theres a few providers that are assed out Fox Sports 1...time warner and dish might have been the other ones...not sureComment -
I disagree with you here. A cautious jab-fest from Rory could be seen coming from a mile away. No idea what Ellenberger was doing though, while I know he didn't have an answer for Rory's distancing, he didn't seem to try mixing it up at all. No takedowns, no head movement, just your typical awful Jake Ellenberger striking display. When his go-to plan of throwing hooks didn't work, he had nothing else. Seriously one of the most overrated fighters in the UFC.
Also disagree that the value was on Jake. I was on Rory, though, so of course I'll disagree there.Comment -
Im talking about gassing against Forrest and Coleman not now but with this type of fighter hounding him for five rounds it could possibly happen again. For someone who "rolls" it is amazing u could see value with Ellenberger. I just wished it was a five rounder because i would have double my wager i had on Rory.Comment -
Jake shut down mentally completly in that fight, he talked so much shit about Rory that when the bell rang he froze, so scared to get finished that he could not get anything going at all, it took all the way to the third round before he started doing anything at all pretty much.
He didn't even attempt throwing hooks really, usually Ellenberger is full speed ahead just storming.Comment -
"I always here that everything's better when people change camps and blah blah blah," Sonnen said. "Historically it's not true, when a guy switches camps, he doesn't tend to do as well. It's a bit of an experiment. I worked very, very hard, I worked on a lot of new stuff ... I was very pleased with the work and the team, the coaches, the workouts, the facility, but it was still new. I was out of my comfort zone. I don't leave my house very often. I never leave unless i have to. I've been living in a hotel room for a month and a half in Irvine."Comment -
I'd be surprised if it were a fear of getting finished, he just had absolutely no answer for Rory's jab. His only striking techniques are to rush in and throw hooks or to try and counter punch against a guy with a reach edge who's only throwing straight jabs. He's an extremely limited fighter and always has been. It's not a mindset thing I think, although he obviously wasn't willing to risk running into a big shot in order to give himself a better chance of winning.Comment
