UFC 162 Silva Vs Weidman (July 06, 2013)

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  • MD
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 01-31-12
    • 9728

    #106
    Originally posted by Beelzebubzy
    Mir doesn't matchup well.

    Capped it at -400 for warmaster

    Aldo -700
    Machida who the hell knows. What wrestler has given machida trouble? He gave jones a fit with his movement
    Realistically, take the odds of Davis being able to take down and hold down Machida enough to win a decision (or get the submission) and subtract from 99%.
    Comment
    • DonnyMcslick
      SBR Hustler
      • 04-20-13
      • 54

      #107
      Originally posted by MD
      Chael, arguably the best wrestler in that division, succeeded on 3 of 7 takedown attempts against Anderson in a fight where Anderson had injured ribs. Good analysis bro.

      Yet he was on top for like 23 minutes. The takedown percentage is irrelevant because the times he did get him down he never let him up.
      Comment
      • MD
        SBR Hall of Famer
        • 01-31-12
        • 9728

        #108
        Originally posted by DonnyMcslick
        Yet he was on top for like 23 minutes. The takedown percentage is irrelevant because the times he did get him down he never let him up.
        Irrelevant to what we're discussing.

        Also, Weidman's top control isn't nearly on Chael's level. Weidman has never shown to be good at holding people down.
        Comment
        • Beelzebubzy
          SBR Hall of Famer
          • 06-06-11
          • 6995

          #109
          Originally posted by MD
          Irrelevant to what we're discussing.

          Also, Weidman's top control isn't nearly on Chael's level. Weidman has never shown to be good at holding people down.
          I agree. But weidman should pass guard easier.
          Comment
          • mirinquads
            SBR MVP
            • 04-22-13
            • 3927

            #110
            It's not like Anderson tries to get up aggressively or tries to keep position a lot. He's more the conserve energy and look patiently for sub attempts type.
            Comment
            • eligibletackle
              SBR High Roller
              • 12-20-11
              • 149

              #111
              Silva's TDD is not good
              Comment
              • SEKTAUR
                SBR Wise Guy
                • 09-04-11
                • 802

                #112
                Dont ever doubt the best fighter in the world... parlay Heat ml today with Silva!
                Comment
                • MD
                  SBR Hall of Famer
                  • 01-31-12
                  • 9728

                  #113
                  Originally posted by eligibletackle
                  Silva's TDD is not good
                  Yeah, that's why he has such a horrible record against elite grapplers. He got schooled by Sonnen, Okami, Maia, Leites, Lutter... I don't even know why he still competes.
                  Comment
                  • Dwil125
                    SBR MVP
                    • 11-08-12
                    • 2048

                    #114
                    Originally posted by mirinquads
                    It's not like Anderson tries to get up aggressively or tries to keep position a lot. He's more the conserve energy and look patiently for sub attempts type.
                    That's what I'm saying, Anderson isn't going to put himself into a position for Weidman to grab a choke. He's probably going to sit on bottom if he gets put there and wait for the round to end. I think Weidman by decision is more likely
                    Comment
                    • Rubber Guard
                      SBR MVP
                      • 06-22-11
                      • 1550

                      #115
                      Anderson has no shot at winning.
                      Comment
                      • Beelzebubzy
                        SBR Hall of Famer
                        • 06-06-11
                        • 6995

                        #116
                        Originally posted by Rubber Guard
                        Anderson has no shot at winning.
                        Show me the slip.
                        Comment
                        • Rubber Guard
                          SBR MVP
                          • 06-22-11
                          • 1550

                          #117
                          Originally posted by Beelzebubzy
                          Show me the slip.

                          He won't slip. Chris will just take him down.

                          See I went to my EZ capper book. And I see Chael took Anderson down many times and almost won. That means Anderson has no shot vs. a younger elite wrestler.

                          Dis shit ain't difficult.
                          Comment
                          • bjpenn85
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 02-17-11
                            • 5059

                            #118
                            Also in the rematch, dont forget!
                            Comment
                            • DSSCA
                              SBR Sharp
                              • 03-07-12
                              • 454

                              #119
                              Originally posted by Rubber Guard
                              He won't slip. Chris will just take him down.

                              See I went to my EZ capper book. And I see Chael took Anderson down many times and almost won. That means Anderson has no shot vs. a younger elite wrestler.

                              Dis shit ain't difficult.
                              Weidman isn't anywhere near as aggressive as Chael. Anderson doesn't do well when pressured and that's a big reason Chael was able to take him down. Weidman will give Anderson more time on the feet which is better for Anderson. Question is will once Weidman takes him down, can e keep him there long enough to threaten.
                              Comment
                              • MD
                                SBR Hall of Famer
                                • 01-31-12
                                • 9728

                                #120
                                Originally posted by DSSCA
                                Weidman isn't anywhere near as aggressive as Chael. Anderson doesn't do well when pressured and that's a big reason Chael was able to take him down. Weidman will give Anderson more time on the feet which is better for Anderson. Question is will once Weidman takes him down, can e keep him there long enough to threaten.
                                He's being sarcastic.
                                Comment
                                • Vaughany
                                  SBR Aristocracy
                                  • 03-07-10
                                  • 45563

                                  #121
                                  ha yeah, the "he wont slip, Chris will just take him down" was the indicator!
                                  Comment
                                  • MD
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 01-31-12
                                    • 9728

                                    #122
                                    The dead give-away is that he's the only guy on SBR who openly fanboys over an MMA fighter, and that fighter is Anderson Silva. At least he's not as bad as that "bobby heenan" guy though. That guy is cancer.
                                    Comment
                                    • DSSCA
                                      SBR Sharp
                                      • 03-07-12
                                      • 454

                                      #123
                                      Damn you Internet sarcasm! You are my eternal enemy!
                                      Comment
                                      • rocky16
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 07-22-12
                                        • 1905

                                        #124
                                        You phagets with your "Anderson Silva is god" bullshit make me focking laugh. Especially this fock MD. Focking phaget this focking guy is. Weidman gonna punk Silva bad. Make him his bitch. Then you can focking "lol" back and forth on the internet with your focking gay boyfriends all night. Phaget.
                                        Comment
                                        • rocky16
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 07-22-12
                                          • 1905

                                          #125
                                          Originally posted by MD
                                          The dead give-away is that he's the only guy on SBR who openly fanboys over an MMA fighter, and that fighter is Anderson Silva. At least he's not as bad as that "bobby heenan" guy though. That guy is cancer.
                                          Shut the fock up with this shit pal. You are one focking annoying jooboy. Would starch you.
                                          Comment
                                          • rocky16
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 07-22-12
                                            • 1905

                                            #126
                                            Grabbed Weidman +1600 by sub on SB.ag two months ago. Shit is at +425 now. Focking phagets gonna spit their focking Zimas out when Weidman subs this overrated fock.
                                            Comment
                                            • MD
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 01-31-12
                                              • 9728

                                              #127
                                              Originally posted by rocky16
                                              You phagets with your "Anderson Silva is god" bullshit make me focking laugh. Especially this fock MD. Focking phaget this focking guy is. Weidman gonna punk Silva bad. Make him his bitch. Then you can focking "lol" back and forth on the internet with your focking gay boyfriends all night. Phaget.
                                              You realize I'm on Weidman, right?
                                              Comment
                                              • rocky16
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 07-22-12
                                                • 1905

                                                #128
                                                Originally posted by MD
                                                You realize I'm on Weidman, right?
                                                Prove it phaget.
                                                Comment
                                                • SEKTAUR
                                                  SBR Wise Guy
                                                  • 09-04-11
                                                  • 802

                                                  #129
                                                  Originally posted by rocky16
                                                  Grabbed Weidman +1600 by sub on SB.ag two months ago. Shit is at +425 now. Focking phagets gonna spit their focking Zimas out when Weidman subs this overrated fock.
                                                  Do you realize how stupid you sound? "focking phagets" Wah wah wahhh you sound like an ignorant bitchh especially when you call Silva overated. wow you grabbed a bet at +1600 shit could be +1000000 its still gonna lose idiot
                                                  Comment
                                                  • varkolek
                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                    • 07-17-11
                                                    • 230

                                                    #130
                                                    Originally posted by SEKTAUR
                                                    Do you realize how stupid you sound? "focking phagets" Wah wah wahhh you sound like an ignorant bitchh especially when you call Silva overated. wow you grabbed a bet at +1600 shit could be +1000000 its still gonna lose idiot
                                                    He is trying to copy another poster, DefactoCrippler, who is apparently not an alter ego on the net but walks around 24/7 as the biggest freak alive. rocky16 has a bit of an infatuation with this poster: http://forum.sbrforum.com/boxing-mma...l#post18546206
                                                    Comment
                                                    • Rubber Guard
                                                      SBR MVP
                                                      • 06-22-11
                                                      • 1550

                                                      #131
                                                      Weidman by jew jits
                                                      Comment
                                                      • theballsflop
                                                        SBR MVP
                                                        • 06-22-13
                                                        • 1483

                                                        #132
                                                        1.36 on Silva, got him in a couple parlays comin up. Pretty good value imo. Haven't seen so much juice on a Silva matchup in a while.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • MMAbetMASTA
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 05-24-11
                                                          • 1931

                                                          #133
                                                          Originally posted by MD
                                                          Irrelevant to what we're discussing.

                                                          Also, Weidman's top control isn't nearly on Chael's level. Weidman has never shown to be good at holding people down.

                                                          ??? Weidman's all around grappling is equal to if not a huge level above chaels, including top control imo.

                                                          I don't know how you can say he's not good at holding people down. he is good at holding people down when you think about, its just that he's finished most dudes that hit the mat with him, whether in top position, north south, etc.. Sakara is the only guy I know of in zuffa comp where he tried to keep somone on their back and couldn't finish. It's hard to knock him against not hollding maia / munoz down, and I don't think that was the strategy in either fight anyways, especially rolling around with maia when he could do what he did - win a shitty sparring match on the feet. Chael is a heavy positional wrestler, something I suspect weidman could do if he wanted to but his sub grrappling / jitz has so much finesse he always works to do move position and do damage / finish. Chael can't do and doesn't know half the grappling technique weidman does (and seems to have little respect for it), that's why I suspect unlike chael, weidman doesn't lounge in a heavy top set position. If he wanted to or that was the strategy, I'd say he's still better than chael at it when you consider their overall credentials and just the basic technique of both men.

                                                          Win or lose against anderson, overall he's levels above chael when it comes to any part of the grappling game imo, I think history will tell they're not even gonna be comparable in any regard of mma grappling.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • MD
                                                            SBR Hall of Famer
                                                            • 01-31-12
                                                            • 9728

                                                            #134
                                                            Originally posted by MMAbetMASTA
                                                            ??? Weidman's all around grappling is equal to if not a huge level above chaels, including top control imo.

                                                            I don't know how you can say he's not good at holding people down. he is good at holding people down when you think about, its just that he's finished most dudes that hit the mat with him, whether in top position, north south, etc.. Sakara is the only guy I know of in zuffa comp where he tried to keep somone on their back and couldn't finish. It's hard to knock him against not hollding maia / munoz down, and I don't think that was the strategy in either fight anyways, especially rolling around with maia when he could do what he did - win a shitty sparring match on the feet. Chael is a heavy positional wrestler, something I suspect weidman could do if he wanted to but his sub grrappling / jitz has so much finesse he always works to do move position and do damage / finish. Chael can't do and doesn't know half the grappling technique weidman does (and seems to have little respect for it), that's why I suspect unlike chael, weidman doesn't lounge in a heavy top set position. If he wanted to or that was the strategy, I'd say he's still better than chael at it when you consider their overall credentials and just the basic technique of both men.

                                                            Win or lose against anderson, overall he's levels above chael when it comes to any part of the grappling game imo, I think history will tell they're not even gonna be comparable in any regard of mma grappling.
                                                            Almost everyone he's taken down in the UFC has gotten up from underneath him at least once. How many people haven't gotten up from underneath him once he's taken them down? He had trouble keeping Tom Lawlor​ down. He's definitely not as good as Chael when it comes to double-leg explosiveness, or when it comes to top control. His ground and pound is obviously not as good, either. You're being far too general here.
                                                            Comment
                                                            • MMAbetMASTA
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 05-24-11
                                                              • 1931

                                                              #135
                                                              Originally posted by MD
                                                              Yeah, that's why he has such a horrible record against elite grapplers. He got schooled by Sonnen, Okami, Maia, Leites, Lutter... I don't even know why he still competes.
                                                              lol this guy is such a smug douche on here Indeed, they are all very legit grapplers that you listed.

                                                              But here's what sets weidman aside from the rest and it does affect the tdd argument: legit D1 wrestling status and credentials. I know you're thinking chael does too, but think about this.

                                                              The fact weidman's naturally picked up jitz so well and so quickly I thinkn he's emerged as something special. His pure natural grappling ability in mma is uncanny.

                                                              Furthermore, chael is the only american wrestler who had success in out grappling / controling anderson. All the other dudes mentioned might be elite grapplers, but they never had the heavy american wrestling base. Against chael, andy tdd is clearly average at best. Yet chael can't roll for shit and his sub grappling and jitz has always been average imo.

                                                              On the other hand Weidman has the 'merican wrestling base, and has really complimented it with a very strong jitz game that is levels above anything chael came close to achieving. Like I said before, chris has pretty much taken down anyone he wanted to and its hard to knock him for the munoz / maia fight for a lack of ground control. I think he'll expose anderson's tdd fairly quickly with his wrestling base (I highly disagree with people here saying weidman's style isn't 'agressive like chael's wrestling') and unlike chael, not get caught in a sub with 3 min to go. Instead I think he'll tie andy up in a knot for 5 rounds.

                                                              War weidman, been arguing his rule for a while now. The time has come for the king to fall, or at least I'm praying to god for it.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • MMAbetMASTA
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 05-24-11
                                                                • 1931

                                                                #136
                                                                So the fact that an opponents got up, especially during scramble when chris going for a sub and later getting it, means he has weaker top control than chael?


                                                                lol horrible argument with lawlor I think you need to rewatch that fight, the second they started rolling he tied lawlor up and controled him as he wanted. Just because lawlor got up ONCE during a scramble as weidman fished for a sub (which he qwuickly got) doesn't mean he's got weak top control.

                                                                gonna be a smug tool and say 'shame on you'
                                                                Comment
                                                                • MD
                                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                  • 01-31-12
                                                                  • 9728

                                                                  #137
                                                                  Originally posted by MMAbetMASTA
                                                                  lol this guy is such a smug douche on here Indeed, they are all very legit grapplers that you listed.

                                                                  But here's what sets weidman aside from the rest and it does affect the tdd argument: legit D1 wrestling status and credentials. I know you're thinking chael does too, but think about this.

                                                                  The fact weidman's naturally picked up jitz so well and so quickly I thinkn he's emerged as something special. His pure natural grappling ability in mma is uncanny.

                                                                  Furthermore, chael is the only american wrestler who had success in out grappling / controling anderson
                                                                  . All the other dudes mentioned might be elite grapplers, but they never had the heavy american wrestling base. Against chael, andy tdd is clearly average at best. Yet chael can't roll for shit and his sub grappling and jitz has always been average imo.

                                                                  On the other hand Weidman has the 'merican wrestling base, and has really complimented it with a very strong jitz game that is levels above anything chael came close to achieving. Like I said before, chris has pretty much taken down anyone he wanted to and its hard to knock him for the munoz / maia fight for a lack of ground control. I think he'll expose anderson's tdd fairly quickly with his wrestling base (I highly disagree with people here saying weidman's style isn't 'agressive like chael's wrestling') and unlike chael, not get caught in a sub with 3 min to go. Instead I think he'll tie andy up in a knot for 5 rounds.

                                                                  War weidman, been arguing his rule for a while now. The time has come for the king to fall, or at least I'm praying to god for it.
                                                                  Hendo controlled Anderson for a round pretty easily. And the "American wrestling" base is becoming less and less useful in MMA. Ever since elite fighters have started stuffing takedowns with distancing and timing rather than with power and wrestling technique, collegiate wrestlers have seen markedly less success in MMA. How many of the best wrestlers and counter-wrestlers in MMA are great because of their credentials? GSP has openly stated that his takedowns are a result of his karate training, Barao has never wrestled a day in his life, and even Jones rarely uses his wrestling. He favours trips and foot sweeps, no doubt because he's training with a camp that can actually teach him how to use his length. The best MMA wrestler in the world at the moment who actually uses standard "wrestler techniques" is probably Chad Mendes, and he got absolutely abused by Aldo, a Brazillan guy with no wrestling background.

                                                                  I've said before that I'm on Weidman, but anyone who thinks he's just going to run in and double-leg a healthy Anderson over and over for five rounds needs to re-examine why they're betting on fights.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • MD
                                                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                                                    • 01-31-12
                                                                    • 9728

                                                                    #138
                                                                    Originally posted by MMAbetMASTA
                                                                    So the fact that an opponents got up, especially during scramble when chris going for a sub and later getting it, means he has weaker top control than chael?


                                                                    lol horrible argument with lawlor I think you need to rewatch that fight, the second they started rolling he tied lawlor up and controled him as he wanted. Just because lawlor got up ONCE during a scramble as weidman fished for a sub (which he qwuickly got) doesn't mean he's got weak top control.

                                                                    gonna be a smug tool and say 'shame on you'
                                                                    Lawlor got up when Weidman took him down, almost immediately. You​ need to rewatch that fight.

                                                                    Name some opponents Weidman was able to hold down consistently. Munoz? Maia? Lawlor? Sakara?... Bongfeldt?
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Sykes
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 06-23-12
                                                                      • 2714

                                                                      #139
                                                                      Silva for me - knock him down and ko gnp Stefan Bonner style.
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • mmaed
                                                                        SBR MVP
                                                                        • 11-25-11
                                                                        • 1327

                                                                        #140
                                                                        Mark Munoz had a broken foot when he fought chris weidman folks. Not sure if that is well known. I am sure that affected his performance.

                                                                        Weidman barely squeeked by maia in a sloppy kickboxing match. Of course weidman was fighting on short notice but in fairness maia was also very sick for the fight.

                                                                        Aside from that weidman has had some stellar performances against what should be considered mid to lower level ufc fighters.

                                                                        I agree he has the tools to win. Great wrestling and brazilian jiu jitsu. He may be some sort of prodigy in those areas. However having the tools to win doesnt mean he will. With his long layoff and the likelihood that he will have to take and down Anderson Silva for five rounds he will probably end up getting knocked out. Too many opportunites for AS to use his vastly superior striking to catch Weidman at some point.


                                                                        Leben vs Craig.

                                                                        I favor Leben in this one. Anyone think Craig takes this one?
                                                                        Comment
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