[Dimakan]

Sbobet voided my 300 US dollar bet on the soccer game France-Germany bookings over 4.5, stating that at the time it was placed, the situation was a danger moment because of a corner kick taken by France. Quite a part from the fact, that the corner kick, by definition, can't be deemed as a danger moment for a booking, i'm absolutely sure that at the time i placed my bet there was no corner in the game and by the time it was taken they had already accepted my bet.


Most importantly i want to emphasize, that my bet was placed at least 30 seconds before the card was shown and contrary to the statment of this bookie, there was no scenario at that time and after, that could suggest that the card would be produced. There was no foul commited no free kick or a penalty awarded. And this can be easily proved by the video of the game.


I tried to talk to them, but all they do is telling me how sorry they are and all that kind of crap, with no prove of their claims or anything else apart from baseless statements that there was a danger moment wich resulted in to a card. I never expected this kind of scam form A rated bookie and would appreciate very much the help of SBR to solve this problem.


No matter the outcome of this particular case, i personally strongly advise others to stay away from these crooks. There are aplenty of sportsbooks that would never treat you like this and with them, at least you get a straight deal!

[luctens]

I don't bet live with SBOBet but as far as I know, if it is in a danger zone then your bet stays at pending until it is out of danger zone when the bet gets accepted. So surely by them accepting your bet, they are accepting that there was no danger zone when your bet was placed? If so then it seems like you may have a case at least on those grounds.

I would say to fill in an SBR form and see what they can do.

I will say that SBOBet are definitely not crooks or a scam. They are a reputable company and if they have voided your bet then they have done so because they believe there is a valid reason to do so and they think they are in the right. They may well be wrong in this situation but every company can make mistakes but that doesn't make them crooks. Put it this way, if you are labelling SBOBet, one of the biggest sports betting operations in the world a scam, then you might as well not deposit a penny in any bookmaker anywhere.

[Optional]

Live betting is a minefield for issues like this. And it's tough to dispute usually.

They use an incident provider for exact times of incidents and danger periods. It's not possible to use that real time to open and close markets so books run it against each market delayed in a lot of cases.

It is highly unlikely that the incident provider is wrong about the timing of the corner you mention or the danger period as they are at the match and paid to be accurate with these things. Whilst you are watching with an unknown amount of delay.

Considering how large they are SBO does not see a lot of complaints about their live betting compared to others, so I would be pretty sure they are not trying to pull anything.

SBR should be able to get a clear explanation with times etc for you at least though.

[Dimakan]

Hi everybody. Thank you for your interest to this problem. You see, i was exactly of the same opinion about them, before they effectively robbed me. And this is not only a matter of money. They are lying that there was a corner when i placed my bet, there was no corner, no foul, no freekick, no nothing at that time.

They are saying, that because of a corner, taken by France, there was a danger moment and that's why they shouldn't accept the bet, but let's be sane about this, can anyone explain, how on earth a corner can be deemed as a danger moment for a booking in the first place??? I can't call them anything else, but the name they deserve. They are crooks, because they are lying and making up facts and this can happen to anybody anytime!

Regarding the delay, i must say that i placed my bet more than 30 seconds before the booking and at that time, there was no corner kick or anything else that could in anyway suggest that the card would be produced. I played back and forth the video of the game and it's clear for me, that all their claims are false. As i said, there are many decent bookmakers that would never treat anyone like this, they would never void the winnings, knowing that when the bet was placed there was absolutely no chance for a player to know the outcome of it. Knowing that and voiding the winnings is stealing. I can't call it anything else!

[drjohn]

when i placed my bet, there was no corner, no foul, no freekick, no nothing at that time.

doesn't matter; every time the attacking team has possession in the opponent's half, the ball is in "danger zone" and bets are in "waiting state"

i placed my bet more than 30 seconds before the booking

doesn't matter; the ball can remain in "danger zone" for minutes

[Hareeba!]

I don't bet live with SBOBet but as far as I know, if it is in a danger zone then your bet stays at pending until it is out of danger zone when the bet gets accepted. So surely by them accepting your bet, they are accepting that there was no danger zone when your bet was placed? If so then it seems like you may have a case at least on those grounds.

I don't bet live either but this seems to make sense to me but nobody else has remarked on this point?

[Optional]

I don't bet live either but this seems to make sense to me but nobody else has remarked on this point?

It's not correct. See post #3.

Much stuff posted in this thread is off the mark. A danger zone suspends all betting. It doesn't exclude markets that the OP can't think of a way they are affected. A corner resets the game status to a set attack close to goal. That changes odds of a card being shown as well as many other things.

Too many times before I have been told things like "there was definitely no danger zone" or it was "30 seconds between my bet and the card", "there was no corner at all" etc only to eventually find out it was actually placed 1 min after or there was a corner, or whatever. I mean soooo many times people say this and believe it themselves. But I cant recall an incident feed provider EVER being shown to be wrong.

The agent will get the facts for him and SBO will fix it if they or the incident provider turns out to be incorrect. They are reasonable and fair with complaints.

[Hareeba!]

It's not correct. See post #3.

Much stuff posted in this thread is off the mark. A danger zone suspends all betting. It doesn't exclude markets that the OP can't think of a way they are affected. A corner resets the game status to a set attack close to goal. That changes odds of a card being shown as well as many other things.

Too many times before I have been told things like "there was definitely no danger zone" or it was "30 seconds between my bet and the card", "there was no corner at all" etc only to eventually find out it was actually placed 1 min after or there was a corner, or whatever. I mean soooo many times people say this and believe it themselves. But I cant recall an incident feed provider EVER being shown to be wrong.

The agent will get the facts for him and SBO will fix it if they or the incident provider turns out to be incorrect. They are reasonable and fair with complaints.

I understand all that mate but perhaps one of us is missing the point here?

If a danger zone is called don't they suspend taking bets until it's over?

So if a bet is taken doesn't it mean either there was no danger zone or it was taken after expiry?

So how can they void it on account of a danger zone being called?

[Optional]

I understand all that mate but perhaps one of us is missing the point here?

If a danger zone is called don't they suspend taking bets until it's over?

So if a bet is taken doesn't it mean either there was no danger zone or it was taken after expiry?

So how can they void it on account of a danger zone being called?

I explained this in post #3

It's not possible to use the incident feed in real time to open and close markets, due to delays in transmission, so books run it against each market delayed or after completion.

In live betting it's not exactly the same case of accept the bet, pay the bet as pre post. There is many more changes and voids than regular betting.

It's far from a perfect system right now. Risks of voids is way too high for my liking but in order to try to protect the integrity of markets they really do need to check the timing of everything for live bets.

[Hareeba!]

I explained this in post #3

It's not possible to use the incident feed in real time to open and close markets, due to delays in transmission, so books run it against each market delayed or after completion.

In live betting it's not exactly the same case of accept the bet, pay the bet as pre post. There is many more changes and voids than regular betting.

It's far from a perfect system right now. Risks of voids is way too high for my liking but in order to try to protect the integrity of markets they really do need to check the timing of everything for live bets.

Ok, it seems I just don't really understand what goes on in live betting markets as I've never played in them.

So it seems that bets can be taken during "danger zone" time. That's the part I find hard to comprehend. I thought the whole idea was to suspend betting.

[Optional]

They do have traders there and do suspend betting during danger periods but just like us watching on TV and trying to bet, there is a delay.

The reason they need to then verify the exact timing is to try and avoid people trying to take advantage of any delays in closing markets for betting.

If they didn't do it the whole concept would be near impossible to make workable as a percentage of people would be continually taking out of the markets risk free.

[Dimakan]

doesn't matter; every time the attacking team has possession in the opponent's half, the ball is in "danger zone" and bets are in "waiting state"


This is not true. Even according to the rules of this bookie the ball is in danger zone when it is near the penalty box. And it was not anyway near the penalty box when i placed that bet.

doesn't matter; the ball can remain in "danger zone" for minutes

The attack and the corner taken by France, after wich the card was shown, took combined less than 30 seconds, so in this particular case the ball couldn't be in danger zone for minutes.

[Dimakan]

Most importantly, what makes me most resistant to accept this theft, is the fact, that they are trying to justify their actions by the false claim, that there was a corner kick in the game, at the time the bet was placed.


First of all, how can a corner be deemed as a danger moment for a booking? This is just not reasonable, the only danger for a booking can be a foul, free kick or a penalty. The corner kick has nothing to do with the possibility of someone being booked. Do they understand that? Of course they do! But being the cheats they are, they act accordingly.

[Optional]

Most importantly, what makes me most resistant to accept this theft, is the fact, that they are trying to justify their actions by the false claim, that there was a corner kick in the game, at the time the bet was placed.


First of all, how can a corner be deemed as a danger moment for a booking? This is just not reasonable, the only danger for a booking can be a foul, free kick or a penalty. The corner kick has nothing to do with the possibility of someone being booked. Do they understand that? Of course they do! But being the cheats they are, they act accordingly.

A corner is a danger zone for all types of bets.

Here is SBO's rules about it;

23.9 During In Running ("Live") bet conditions, bets placed will be kept in pending mode during specific high risk/ danger moments in a match. Such bets will be indicated as "Pending" on each bet slip until such time when the bet is accepted or rejected by the Operator. High Risk/ Danger moments are defined as follows:

(a) Corner kicks;
(b) Penalty kicks;
(c) Free kick awarded to attacking team near the opponent's penalty box area;
(d) Throw in given to attacking team near the opponent's penalty box area;
(e) Whenever a team is in a potential scoring scenario as in an active attacking mode,


With 15 to 20 players crowded in and around the box for a set move, it really is a relevant danger zone for a booking too.



But I downloaded the match and reviewed it myself and agree that no corner was awarded in the 3 minutes between France's 2nd goal and the 5th booking occurring.

Match Times;

71:40 France scores a goal.

73:07 France make an attack (possible danger period)

73:25 Germany make an attack (possible danger period)

74:00 France shot on goal (possible danger period) results in goal kick.

74:25 Germany awarded a throw in near the half way line (don't think this would be a danger period as not near penalty box)

74:40 Yellow card awarded against France to take total to 5 for the match

I do not know the exact match time of the OPs bet but the only way I can see that it might be struck during a danger zone period is if it was placed during the 15 seconds between the throw in (when Germany went on the attack) and the yellow card being given. Although obviously that is not due to a corner in that scenario.


I'm not sure what the explanation will be but I'll guess SBObet will have one, and change the grading if they have got it wrong.

[evo34]

Lesson: don't bet "live" events that may be overturned upon review.

[Dimakan]

[QUOTE=Optional;26001902]

With 15 to 20 players crowded in and around the box for a set move, it really is a relevant danger zone for a booking too.




The booking can occur anytime, anywhere on the pitch, when players are crowded and when they are dispersed, when they are on the move and static. But according to the rules of this game, the card can be given to the player only for a misconduct or a serious offense.


So the corner by itself, can never be a danger moment for the booking. In fact, i think much more bookings occur in the course of the game than after the corners. I haven't seen much of them at the time and after the corner kicks in the game.

[Optional]

The booking can occur anytime, anywhere on the pitch, when players are crowded and when they are dispersed, when they are on the move and satatic. But according to the rules of this game, the card can be given to the player only for a misconduct or a serious offense.


So the corner by itself, can never be a danger moment for the booking. In fact, i think much more bookings occur in the course of the game than after the corners. I haven't seen much of them at the time and after the corner kicks in the game.

Why do you continue to argue this point when you have been told it does have an effect on the booking odds, it is a standard reason for a danger zone for every bet type at every book and is clearly stated in SBO bet rules? Plus you claim no corner happened anyway... so why do you want to make this silly incorrect argument again now?


I have the feeling you must know a corner was awarded at the time you placed this bet still.

You said " my bet was placed at least 30 seconds before the card was shown" <-- is this statement correct?

Exactly what time in the match was your bet struck?

[Dimakan]

Watch your words "Optional" and don't be silly yourself! You have no right to insult anyone here, in this forum. I don't care about your personal opinion or guessings regarding this matter and i was not talking about the rules of this bookie either.

There are dozens of sportsbooks that would accept the bets placed at the time of corner kicks, so stop this talk about "standard reasons for every bet type at every book". This is just not true!

Just to explain myselft to everybody else. I was replying to the argument that the corner is a relevant danger moment for a booking. In my view, this is nonesence. The corner kick by itself doesn't constitute a danger for booking. These are just two different things. If i had placed that bet with some other, more decent sportsbook, i wouldn't get in to this kind of problem and that would, save my time, nerves and money for sure!

[luctens]

Just to explain myselft to everybody else. I was replying to the argument that the corner is a relevant danger moment for a booking. In my view, this is nonesence. The corner kick by itself doesn't constitute a danger for booking. These are just two different things. If i had placed that bet with some other, more decent sportsbook, i wouldn't get in to this kind of problem and that would, save my time, nerves and money for sure!

Although you don't agree that a corner kick is a danger zone area, from what Optional quoted in SBOBet's rules, a corner kick is defined as a danger zone and they don't specify it as a danger zone only for specific markets but that seems to be a generalisation that for any live bet placed on any market, if the game is in a corner kick then that is defined as being in a danger zone.

Whether there was or wasn't a danger zone situation when your bet went through is another matter, but in terms of your opinion on whether a corner kick is a danger zone or not, SBOBet's rules state that a corner is a danger zone so there is nothing more to be said on your opinion of whether that rule should be there or not, the fact is that the rule is there and that decides that argument.

I don't bet live much but I believe these rules and danger zone procedures would be pretty similar in most if not all Asian bookmakers. If you don't like those rules it's probably best you do your live betting at least at European books as they all generally seem to have about an 8 second time delay and then if nothing has happened then the bet gets accepted and things seem a lot more simple with live betting with the European books rather than the Asian books.

[Optional]

@Luctens, SBObet have the most extensive, clearest and fairest live betting rules I have seen. They have less complaints than other major live betting operators and when they do have an issue like this, they have always responded to our agents quickly, in detail and when wrong have changed decisions without hesitation. Which is why I have suddenly become a little suspicious of our friend here banging on about the corner rule after telling us there was not even a corner at the time he placed the bet.

Check out section 23 and it's clauses defining danger zones: http://www.sbobet-info.com/article/A...ing-Rules.html

I'd say the opposite of what you said about Euro books in comparison really.

You won't find anything like that sort of clear definition at places like Bet365 and WilliamHill.

Here is WlliamHill's entire set of terms for the same thing;

"A betting market may be suspended when something of significance occurs, or is likely to occur, during an event.

In the case of football, examples of this may (but will not always) be: a goal, possible red card, possible penalty, 85 minutes play being completed, the price of one of the teams being shorter than 1/25000, the feed from our third party service providers failing etc. The above examples are not exhaustive and there may be other reasons that are not listed."

[Optional]

Watch your words "Optional" and don't be silly yourself! You have no right to insult anyone here, in this forum. I don't care about your personal opinion or guessings regarding this matter and i was not talking about the rules of this bookie either.

Would you please answer these questions so we can get this sorted out Dimakan?;


You said " my bet was placed at least 30 seconds before the card was shown" <-- is this statement correct?

Exactly what time in the match was your bet struck?

There are dozens of sportsbooks that would accept the bets placed at the time of corner kicks, so stop this talk about "standard reasons for every bet type at every book". This is just not true!

I don't think you will be able to find even one major book offering live betting that does not suspend all action on a corner kick, let alone dozens.


I've shown you SBObet's rule.


Here is Pinnacle's rule;

30.3 Based on the current status of a live Soccer match, and at the discretion of Pinnacle, matches may be placed in a danger zone. Wagers placed while a game is in a danger zone are subject to rejection. Danger Zones include, but are not limited to, Free Kicks near the goal, Corners, attacks in the opposition third, etc.


Here are Betonline Rules;

Lines will be offered at linesmakers discretion. We cannot guarantee a line at any point during the game and will not offer lines when there is a ‘danger ball’ situation such as a corner kick or free kick.



I can assure you a corner is considered a standard cause for live betting suspension.

[Dimakan]

I totally agree with Luctens, it is much more safer and easy to bet with sportsbooks like Betcris, Bet365 and WilliamHill. I have never seen them suspend any market at times of corner kicks, besides the corner markets. They keep all other markets open and you can bet on anything you want during the corners.


Regarding the rules of Sbo. Yes, they have all kinds of rules, but some of them are not logical and fair and that's what i'm talking about. The corner has nothing to do with the booking and for sure i would never got in to this, if instead of SBO i had placed that bet with some other bookmaker without this danger zone rule trash. I would have that winnings in my account and wouldn't argue about it for days!


As for remarks and questions of this passionate advocate of Sbobet Optional, i would say that although i know that my bet was placed before the corner, fortunately for this bookie, i don't have a screenshot to show the exact time of the game, when the bet was placed. I would have documented that If i knew what was coming, but i was caught by surprise and didn't expect anything like that. And finally one more thing Optional, please save your breath, i don't have any intention to argue with your kind of people, just do your promotional work for them anywhere else!

[Hareeba!]

fortunately for this bookie, i don't have a screenshot to show the exact time of the game, when the bet was placed. I would have documented that If i knew what was coming, but i was caught by surprise and didn't expect anything like that.

Your account statement at SBO should show the precise time of your bet.
Unless of course it was removed on being voided?

[Optional]

Your account statement at SBO should show the precise time of your bet.
Unless of course it was removed on being voided?

The OP provided a screenshot of his bet with the time stamp. So he knows the time quite well.


SBObet have given SBR a full explanation, which the agent has passed on to Dimakan.

If he does not come back here and explain the true story, then I will.

[luctens]

@Luctens, SBObet have the most extensive, clearest and fairest live betting rules I have seen. They have less complaints than other major live betting operators and when they do have an issue like this, they have always responded to our agents quickly, in detail and when wrong have changed decisions without hesitation. Which is why I have suddenly become a little suspicious of our friend here banging on about the corner rule after telling us there was not even a corner at the time he placed the bet.

Check out section 23 and it's clauses defining danger zones: http://www.sbobet-info.com/article/A...ing-Rules.html

I'd say the opposite of what you said about Euro books in comparison really.

You won't find anything like that sort of clear definition at places like Bet365 and WilliamHill.

Here is WlliamHill's entire set of terms for the same thing;

"A betting market may be suspended when something of significance occurs, or is likely to occur, during an event.

In the case of football, examples of this may (but will not always) be: a goal, possible red card, possible penalty, 85 minutes play being completed, the price of one of the teams being shorter than 1/25000, the feed from our third party service providers failing etc. The above examples are not exhaustive and there may be other reasons that are not listed."

My experience with European bookmakers is that they firstly don't use the danger zone rule and therefore bets are either accepted or denied in 8 seconds. This differs with the Asian danger zone rule where bets can stay pending for 2-3 minutes sometimes which is unacceptable.

European bookmakers in my experience only ever suspend markets if there is a goal, red card, penalty etc which means their markets are far more active and much less suspensions than the Asian markets which seem to define a lot of things as danger zones. Also I have never had one live bet ever voided retrospectively by a European bookmaker because they have later found out there was a goal or corner or something at the time I placed the bet.

So I can only speak from my experience that European bookmakers have a far more efficient way of handling their in-play markets in terms of them not being suspended for long periods, they accept or deny bets way faster and there is very low risk that live bets will be voided so I personally feel a lot more comfortable placing live bets with European bookmakers than Asians.