[Snowball]

" Far more disturbing are the poll results that showed that 44 percent of catholics have never or rarely read the Bible, while this is true with only 7 percent of evangelicals and 13 percent of non evangelical protestant. "

http://www.catholicity.com/commentary/carlin/05386.html

The decline and fall of the catholic church, coming from one of your own ...

you can't believe that stuff.
btw you know Catholics hear readings from the Old and New Testaments
at every Mass, and the Liturgy is based on Holy Writ.

[bobbywaves]

[brainfreeze]

lol

[Seaweed]

Brainfreeze has too much ego and is indoctrinated with false Protestant beliefs. I see your errors but I know you love Christ. Complete that love by coming home to Rome. The Catholic Church has never taught error on faith and morals or ever contradicted itself. It is made up of not perfect beings, so there will always be sinners. The Church is a hospital for sinners. The Magesterium is the greatest gift Christ has left us. Would Christ leave us a Church without protecting it by leaving someone in charge? "What you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven". Christ did not leave us a bible, he left us His Church.

[brainfreeze]

Brainfreeze has too much ego and is indoctrinated with false Protestant beliefs. I see your errors but I know you love Christ. Complete that love by coming home to Rome. The Catholic Church has never taught error on faith and morals or ever contradicted itself. It is made up of not perfect beings, so there will always be sinners. The Church is a hospital for sinners. The Magesterium is the greatest gift Christ has left us. Would Christ leave us a Church without protecting it by leaving someone in charge? "What you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven". Christ did not leave us a bible, he left us His Church.

i ...have a ego? Are you trolling here seaweed?

The relationship i have with Christ is complete and yes the rcc does teach error. Apocryphal is error, baptizing babies, paying $ for sin, praying to Saints and Mary, praying with muslims, accepting evolution, it's all error ... the pagan adaptation the rcc has suffered to accumulate a global congregation will be more of the reason of its downfall .. catholics don't read the Bible, and then think they can absolve sins (i went to Jesus on my own and have plenty of conformation that JESUS ABSOLVES .. taking all these peoples money to further universal nonsense. scam, THIS IS FACT


you should do your research on nondenom and baptist seaweed, pastors like kent hovind, td jakes, some evengical prophecy studies, creation research, and people that can give spiritual food and understanding from the scriptures. People that can provide a way for anyone to build their own relationships with their Creator. He knows the numbers of hair on our heads, im sure He's able to understand our hearts and concerns...

we don't have billion dollar properties, secret orders, and churches but we have the Holy Spirit and Gods love. No bulletproof glass or guarded libraries that we won't allow people access to certain artifacts. Just the truth, actions speak louder than words seaweed ... and catholic as a whole has shown where they stand. You can say " we submit our judgments to the church " the churches actions over the past 1500 years have spoken loud enough.

[Snowball]

Seaweed if you can get a copy of the 3 volume series
do it. I own all 3 volumes - you should get it too, brainfreeze.
or his popular history of the reformation.

A real gem, books like this are a thing of the past..
Hughes, Philip (1935-1947), A History of The Church: An Introductory Study, New York: Sheed and Ward (3 volumes) ^[3]

• Volume I: The Church And The World In Which The Church Was Founded
• Volume II: The Church And The World The Church Created. Augustine To Aquinas
• Volume III: The Revolt Against The Church. Aquinas To Luther.

[b1slickguy]

Take a look at the crusades. The popes of that era, claiming the crusades were god's command and will, gave remission of sins to participants of these "holy" activities. Basically saying that if you're out killing, raping and destroying in the name of god and for the good of the religion, then it's not a sin. What a crock of shit. Sins are sins and are well defined without exception. Today christians are having the tables turned with muslims acting out their version of the crusades and for the same "holy" reasons and goals of control while enraged christians of the world are wondering why.

Most all religions are about nothing but power, control and promotion of fear of their god at the core and very few are even remotely original. Christian religions are a modified version of paganism right down to the important ceremonies/holidays and even when these are celebrated. Why do you think christmas is celebrated a few days after the winter solstace? It actually has nothing to do with a baby savior being born on or around this date on the calendar. The dates when specific christian ceremonies and holidays take place were kept the same/similar to the dates of the pagan celebrations to make it a smooth transition for all to convert. When this conversion was met with resistance violence, murder and other atrocities ensued. True spiritualism is a state of mind, not something physical or forced upon someone... just as church is not a building, but a group of people with the same beliefs. Why was (and still is) there a need for people to go out and actively attempt to convert others to their religion? It's all about power, fear and control. Is this really the will of a wonderful and loving god?

[brainfreeze]

Take a look at the crusades. The popes of that era, claiming the crusades were god's command and will, gave remission of sins to participants of these "holy" activities. Basically saying that if you're out killing, raping and destroying in the name of god and for the good of the religion, then it's not a sin. What a crock of shit. Sins are sins and are well defined without exception. Today christians are having the tables turned with muslims acting out their version of the crusades and for the same "holy" reasons and goals of control while enraged christians of the world are wondering why.

Most all religions are about nothing but power, control and promotion of fear of their god at the core and very few are even remotely original. Christian religions are a modified version of paganism right down to the important ceremonies/holidays and even when these are celebrated. Why do you think christmas is celebrated a few days after the winter solstace? It actually has nothing to do with a baby savior being born on or around this date on the calendar. The dates when specific christian ceremonies and holidays take place were kept the same/similar to the dates of the pagan celebrations to make it a smooth transition for all to convert. When this conversion was met with resistance violence, murder and other atrocities ensued. True spiritualism is a state of mind, not something physical or forced upon someone... just as church is not a building, but a group of people with the same beliefs. Why was (and still is) there a need for people to go out and actively attempt to convert others to their religion? It's all about power, fear and control. Is this really the will of a wonderful and loving god?

Yea, i've been over stuff like this a few times ... see post 1882 http://www.sportsbookreview.com/foru...l#post23954551

just to look at all this is confusing, and a big mess. i see why people have problems just picking where to learn from. The things is God will put everything in place for those who truly want to know. He leads us in the right directions. We might get stuck wandering the desert (from this church to that church, from this perspective and that) but the goal is to be with Jesus and make it to the promised land so to speak. Everyone just can't have the truth and " know " what they want. There is trust and love involved. Why would God look to waste time and show people things that don't care about Him, doesn't have the heart to want to care. People don't want the truth, they want stuff, status, and to be powerful and respected on this earth ...

who cares about truth, it's for those that want to walk a pure path to true enlightenment... then will one begin to get through the hoops of understanding where sects go astray...

[brainfreeze]

" muslim terrorism does not exist " - francis

[Snowball]

b1slickguy. Islam was a cult and war tribe that killed thousands, stole half an empire
and almost completely overran the continent of Europe. I think Christians had an
obligation to fight back, just like they do today when confronted by Islam or any
other deleterious cult such as Freemasonry or Zionism.

[brainfreeze]

Christian martyr- a witness to Christ and testifies to that even to persecution and death.

islam (copy cat) " martyr " - one who commits violent acts against non-believers while killing themselves.

[bobbywaves]

[brainfreeze]

[video=youtube;
w[/video]

" you are peter " " on this rock i build my church "

completely twisted to form the start of the disturbing confused views the catholics hold.

http://www.baptisttheology.org/bapti...ck-Yarnell.pdf
page 12

The video is weak sauce though bob, poorly executed propaganda...

[Snowball]

[bobbywaves]

Freeze, your dance in this video was amusing. Sorry I threw up & farted in your face at the end:

[BOA12]

Can you be a Christian and be for the death penalty? If I'm not mistaken, He was given the death penalty by the ,business, political and religion leaders of that time if you believe the story of of His demise and he is (a) God or son of God(being a Christian you at least believe The Son and that was given the death penalty for his liberal views).
I

[brainfreeze]

Can you be a Christian and be for the death penalty? If I'm not mistaken, He was given the death penalty by the ,business, political and religion leaders of that time if you believe the story of of His demise and he is (a) God or son of God(being a Christian you at least believe The Son and that was given the death penalty for his liberal views).
I

i believe the accounts of what happened are true. The thing is, Jesus was " penalized " to death for nothing. He had committed no crimes ... Jesus was unjustifiably killed ... but being a Christian, we practice forgiveness, tolerance, and love. There are a few exceptions though.

like here where Jesus says it is better for one to kill themselves than to hurt a child.

Matthew 18:5-6

5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

[Snowball]

Can you be a Christian and be for the death penalty?

what do you mean by "be a Christian" and 'call for' execution of a criminal ?

About 25 years ago, the Catholic Church made its instructions on when that may be allowed
more stringent. Only in case of self-defense, or to protect innocents from harm. If a prisoner
can be held with no possibility of harming others, then the death penalty is not sanctioned.
Orthodox have all embraced identical positions in recent times.

The most major Protestant group in the US to still condone the death penalty as
punishment - not only as deterrent, are Baptists.

[b1slickguy]

Snowball, I agree with you about the need to fight back, but they did a lot more than just defend themselves. People, and not just muslims, were brutalized and murdered under the pretense of divine instruction for not believing and converting to christianity. My problem with this lies there and in the fact that the popes of the time gave remission of these heinous acts and sins that are well defined without exemption in the their own bible. These acts of murder, rape, and violence, as well as the remission of these sins, were still taking place long after the "defending" was over. Those in power (aka the victors) write the history that is passed on and this is where the embellishing occurs and facts become skewed to further promote power, control and fear.

To state that one religion/god is better or more correct than another is one's own belief not fact. Does coca cola taste better than pepsi? Does ford make better vehicles than chevy? It's an opinion and a reflection of one's comprehension and analysis of events that occurred in one's life that shaped these beliefs and faiths. As I stated before, true spirituality is a state of mind and not something physical or forced, and ultimately has nothing to do with these organized, man-made religions or their actions. One does not need a bible, quran or any other book to achieve this. I do not believe in full-blown evolution from nothing and I am amazed at the symmetry in all things in existence, living or not, as we define and claim to know them. This is only my belief based on my own observations and assessments, but certainly not empirical nor can it be proven as fact. The questions such as, "why are we here?" and "where did we come from?" can only be answered with theories and not irrefutable and measurable evidence. Theories and faith based beliefs are not facts. When it becomes a dick measuring contest among the different religions and sects is when I tune it out completely. Our ability to think and create our own beliefs is what makes us all so unique and I find no fault in that when it has no ulterior motives. Peace and happiness to all of you!

[brainfreeze]

Snowball, I agree with you about the need to fight back, but they did a lot more than just defend themselves. People, and not just muslims, were brutalized and murdered under the pretense of divine instruction for not believing and converting to christianity. My problem with this lies there and in the fact that the popes of the time gave remission of these heinous acts and sins that are well defined without exemption in the their own bible. These acts of murder, rape, and violence, as well as the remission of these sins, were still taking place long after the "defending" was over. Those in power (aka the victors) write the history that is passed on and this is where the embellishing occurs and facts become skewed to further promote power, control and fear.

To state that one religion/god is better or more correct than another is one's own belief not fact. Does coca cola taste better than pepsi? Does ford make better vehicles than chevy? It's an opinion and a reflection of one's comprehension and analysis of events that occurred in one's life that shaped these beliefs and faiths. As I stated before, true spirituality is a state of mind and not something physical or forced, and ultimately has nothing to do with these organized, man-made religions or their actions. One does not need a bible, quran or any other book to achieve this. I do not believe in full-blown evolution from nothing and I am amazed at the symmetry in all things in existence, living or not, as we define and claim to know them. This is only my belief based on my own observations and assessments, but certainly not empirical nor can it be proven as fact. The questions such as, "why are we here?" and "where did we come from?" can only be answered with theories and not irrefutable and measurable evidence. Theories and faith based beliefs are not facts. When it becomes a dick measuring contest among the different religions and sects is when I tune it out completely. Our ability to think and create our own beliefs is what makes us all so unique and I find no fault in that when it has no ulterior motives. Peace and happiness to all of you!

so your belief is ... you believe in a god but not Jesus or the Bible?

[b1slickguy]

so your belief is ... you believe in a god but not Jesus or the Bible?

Yes, I can't deny the rhythm and symmetry found in everything around us. I do not think this happened from nothing as science would try to lead us to believe. I do not believe or identify with the contradictions and all of the stories within the bible. There are some passages concerning morals and love that I would agree with, but the book as an entire body of work is a mechanism of control. The 1st commandment is first for a reason and is very arrogant and selfish at a minimum. It sets the stage for the rest of the control and fear to occur. The stories of water to wine, walking on water, living in a fish for 3 days and 2 fish and 5 loaves feeding 5,000 people are fiction. If any of these were claimed to have happened or reported as happening today we might be entertained, but would know there was some trickery involved. Any other claims would be laughable. Also, instances of sacrificial killing are disturbing and contradictory. Why would a righteous and loving god direct one of his followers to murder his son on a mountain? What was Abraham's just punishment by his peers for murder? Surely not everyone around him believed his tale of being commanded by god to commit such an atrocious act. If this were to happen the same way today we all know how the story would end. It's ironic how some things in the bible both attract and deter different people.

[RangeFinder]

The Bible is the Truth. Old Testament (Old law) is about the beginning, the laws set forth by GOD and how man fell short (sin). The New Testament (New law), is how GOD redeemed us through his Son Jesus Christ.

That's in a nutshell. The rest is up to you all. You have the choice to accept, or reject. Ball is in your court.

You see, too many want GOD to show himself or do something for proof that HE exists. The fact is HE has already done that. Now it's up to you to respond.

Think about it.

[xdodger19]

To be saved repent and believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ

Jesus is the way the truth and the life!

there is no catholics, no protestants, what is an eveangelical
well in political terms these are "christian zionists" Jerry Falwell Liberty university

probably 95 percent of people dont even know what the terms mean
thats the confusion

But Biblically an evangelist is one of the five fold ministry
an evangelist is simply someone who preaches the gospel to the lost
All Christians are evangelists in one sense

[Snowball]

b1slick it's the goodness in your heart but also your skepticism and pride
that make you think this way. Every single one of your points can be answered
satisfactorily. We don't have time for that here but if you want to read, I can
suggest books.

[xdodger19]

snowball is smart

[b1slickguy]

b1slick it's the goodness in your heart but also your skepticism and pride
that make you think this way. Every single one of your points can be answered
satisfactorily. We don't have time for that here but if you want to read, I can
suggest books.

I am completely open to reading and learning more.
TIA for your suggestions.

[bigtymer56]

slick you might find this channel interesting...

[bigtymer56]

[brainfreeze]

Yes, I can't deny the rhythm and symmetry found in everything around us. I do not think this happened from nothing as science would try to lead us to believe. I do not believe or identify with the contradictions and all of the stories within the bible. There are some passages concerning morals and love that I would agree with, but the book as an entire body of work is a mechanism of control. The 1st commandment is first for a reason and is very arrogant and selfish at a minimum. It sets the stage for the rest of the control and fear to occur. The stories of water to wine, walking on water, living in a fish for 3 days and 2 fish and 5 loaves feeding 5,000 people are fiction. If any of these were claimed to have happened or reported as happening today we might be entertained, but would know there was some trickery involved. Any other claims would be laughable. Also, instances of sacrificial killing are disturbing and contradictory. Why would a righteous and loving god direct one of his followers to murder his son on a mountain? What was Abraham's just punishment by his peers for murder? Surely not everyone around him believed his tale of being commanded by god to commit such an atrocious act. If this were to happen the same way today we all know how the story would end. It's ironic how some things in the bible both attract and deter different people.

Old Testament
Genesis 22:8

8And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

New Testament
John 1:29

29The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.




all the miracles happened, just like you and me happened .... doubt runs rampant in the minds that can't find understanding. Gods real, and waiting on those like us to call Him in to our lives. Let Him make a house of your house and watch how awesome He can be, He knocks ...it's us that has to invite.

[BigDofBA]

When you die it's over. Don't waste your life hoping there is an afterlife. You'll just waste your existence.

If I die and God is before me sending me to hell for being an Atheist, I'll ask him if he is Zeus, Apollo, Alah, the Christian God, etc. it'll be nice to know the select few that guessed right when they were on Earth and practiced the right religion.

In all reality it would be funny if I died and was before God. I wouldn't have to say anything at all to him. I would let my life speak for itself.

[SEKTAUR]

Live righteous, try not to sin, try to do good, try to help others, enjoy the fruits of the world. No one can tell you whos God to believe in so believe in your own God if you choose to believe and see what happens.

[brainfreeze]

Live righteous, try not to sin, try to do good, try to help others, enjoy the fruits of the world. No one can tell you whos God to believe in so believe in your own God if you choose to believe and see what happens.

yea, jus make our own religion out of all of them..



What will happen, is you will begin a new confused path in life ...the real question is how long will you stay on this path until you realize how much of your life you've wasted.

[Snowball]

I am completely open to reading and learning more.
TIA for your suggestions.

If you haven't read anything by Rod Bennett or Larry Hurtado,
check them out. Otherwise I do have many more suggestions
depending upon specific topics.

[brainfreeze]

When you die it's over. Don't waste your life hoping there is an afterlife. You'll just waste your existence.

If I die and God is before me sending me to hell for being an Atheist, I'll ask him if he is Zeus, Apollo, Alah, the Christian God, etc. it'll be nice to know the select few that guessed right when they were on Earth and practiced the right religion.

In all reality it would be funny if I died and was before God. I wouldn't have to say anything at all to him. I would let my life speak for itself.

you are stubborn ...

believe what you want, oh and you will see the thrown before God on judgement day and i hope by that time you've made Christ your Savior, otherwise that price He paid .... IS NOW YOUR OWN DEBT

[brainfreeze]

If i have to start getting angry at you guys or whoever ...i will, God willing, this is to serious. Jesus talked a lot on hell btw ... I'd imagine it's beneficial to our life to figure all this out...

what is hell? What is haitis? What is haiden?

" Death and hell were thrown into the fiery lake of fire "

whats the lake of fire?