OP getting buried.
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08-13-13 12:25 AM #36
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08-13-13 01:12 AM #37
OP buried himself when he tried to argue that passing yards define whether or not you are a good QB. Just look at the top of the yards list....Stafford and Romo both in the top 5. Yeah the more passing yards you have the better QB you are
Originally Posted by jnickell100
Nomination(s):This post was nominated 1 time . To view the nominated thread please click here. People who nominated: slacker00
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08-13-13 02:35 AM #38
Terry Bradshaw's numbers were typically far below those of John Brodie/Dan Fouts/Ken Anderson/Fran Tarkenton and other star QBs of the day, but he was always considered the best of his generation because he won four Super Bowls. And the Steel Curtain D's had a lot to do with that.
Stats never tell the whole story. If RW wins a couple Super Bowls with a great defense behind him will those questioning his talents now still be doing so then?
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08-13-13 08:01 AM #39
ESPN is poison. Do your own homework and stay away from that network.
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08-13-13 12:32 PM #40
No not call it what you want, he is a game manager. There are backup QB's who averaged more than him and his passing stats are right down there with Poncho Sanchez. I'm not making that up. Originally Posted by Speedy88
Sanchez was the QB for some Jets teams that had great defense, good O-Line and they ran the ball well. Who does that sound like? Yes I'd take Russell Wilson over Mark Sanchez but the point is right now he is more similar to Sanchez than anybody in the top 10.
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08-13-13 12:37 PM #41
2012 Seahawks had the #1 defense, the 2011 Hawks had the #7 Scoring and #9 in Yards defense. Originally Posted by swordsandtequila
2011 Seattle without Wilson (7-9)
2012 Seattle with Wilson (11-5)
Comparable roster minus the quarterback.
Leads NC State to their best season in 7 years, then unceremoniously released by sorry ass Tom O'Brien because he won't quit baseball. Transfers to Wisconsin. Leads Wisconsin to the Big Ten title, winning the inaugural Big Ten Championship game throwing 3 td's and winning MVP. Sets Wisconsin single season td record, second only to Drew Brees in Big Ten history. Sets single season FBS (NCAA) record for passing efficiency. Totals 314 yards and 3 td's in the Rose Bowl, losing 45-38 to Oregon. Tom O'Brien fired.
As many playoff wins as Romo in 7 less years. Let us know when Stafford wins one. Matt Ryan was seconds away from another year of "can't win in the playoffs". All have much better receiving corps than Seattle. Sanchez, Locker, Kolb, Cassell? Not even close.
Who give's a f*k about passing yards. Scoreboard is all that matters. Bottom line the guy's smart and a winner. Not a fluke teams get better with him. Not saying he's the next coming of Unitas, but he's a lot more than just a game manager.
Do you know who the Hawks were starting in 2011? Tavaras Bubba Gump Jackson, a natural born loser.
Marshawn Lynch had an additional 400 rushing yards in 2012 over 2011.
Every QB was good in college, even Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington and Akili Smith.
Russell Wilson won a playoff game, yeah while RG3 was picking his snapped leg up off the field and RW had the #1 defense in the league behind him.
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08-13-13 12:40 PM #42
Seattle has the best homefield advantage in football. Originally Posted by El Nino
But the Hawks were only 5-4 ATS as favorites last year. They are going to be favored in 75% or more of their games this year and the ESPN hype machine is working non-stop.
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08-13-13 12:40 PM #43
Nope. 3 Seacocks fans circle jerking themselves. Originally Posted by jnickell100
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08-13-13 12:43 PM #44
I never said passing yards define you but under 200 passing yards per game isn't anywhere close to elite. Originally Posted by Speedy88
OP buried himself when he tried to argue that passing yards define whether or not you are a good QB. Just look at the top of the yards list....Stafford and Romo both in the top 5. Yeah the more passing yards you have the better QB you are
Peyton Manning had a good defense last year and he still passed a lot.
Ben Roethlisburger won super bowls with a good defense and running game and and he still passed.
RW is a game manager, not even close to an elite passing QB.
Matt Schaub had had a pretty efficient career at being a game manager and has posted some good statistical seasons, I don't see ESPN ejaculating over him?
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08-13-13 12:51 PM #45
You just don't get it. Passing yards are not the indicator for how successful/good an NFL quarterback is, accuracy and taking care of the ball are. As already stated:
Completion % - 7th
Yds/Att - 4th
TDs - 9th
Int - 24th
QB Rating - 4th
Maybe if Romo/Stafford, etc. didn't turn the ball over so much they wouldn't constantly be trailing in games, necessitating the need to pass more. It's not how many, but how well. Quality over quantity. Saying Wilson is "more similar to Sanchez than anybody in the top 10" destroys any credibility you might have had.
If I had to guess I'd say you lost money on the Redskins game.
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08-13-13 12:59 PM #46
I never said anything about Stafford/Romo. Originally Posted by swordsandtequila
You just don't get it. Passing yards are not the indicator for how successful/good an NFL quarterback is, accuracy and taking care of the ball are. As already stated:
Completion % - 7th
Yds/Att - 4th
TDs - 9th
Int - 24th
QB Rating - 4th
Maybe if Romo/Stafford, etc. didn't turn the ball over so much they wouldn't constantly be trailing in games, necessitating the need to pass more. It's not how many, but how well. Quality over quantity. Saying Wilson is "more similar to Sanchez than anybody in the top 10" destroys any credibility you might have had.
If I had to guess I'd say you lost money on the Redskins game.
If accuracy and low turnovers are then I suppose you'd trade for David Garrard in 2007 when he threw 18 TD and 3 INT on a playoff team? Lots of cheesy dump off passes making him a great QB in your mold.
Answer me this? How come the best QB's in the game usually are at the top of the yards passing leader board? How come Tim Tebow had no receivers and then Peyton Manning comes along and his receivers are pretty damn good? Same thing with Vick, he never had any receivers and then Matt Ryan comes along and it turns out Roddy White was actually pretty good?
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08-13-13 02:25 PM #47
Nope, Bucs fan. Just know good players when I see them. Originally Posted by C-Gold
Uh, yeah you did. Your 1st post: Originally Posted by C-Gold
The whole premise of your post was based on passing yards. The top 10 QB's based on yardage last year includes Carson Palmer and Josh Freeman. Freeman's my teams QB, but Wilson was better last year. Flacco was 14th, behind Schaub @ 11, who finished above Eli (who's got 2 rings). Who won the Super Bowl? Andrew Luck had more than Aaron Rogers, must be better. I mention Stafford and Romo because they finished 2nd/3rd behind Brees. Are they elite? F*k no. Prolific? Yes. Take Brady off your list you've got 1 Super Bowl. Fact, not opinion. Sanchez comparison is ludicrous, not worth discussing. Ask a Jets fan who'd they rather have.Drew Brees #1, 323.6 YPG
Matt Stafford #2, 310.4 YPG
Tony Romo #3, 306.4 YPG
Ton Brady #4, 301.7 YPG
...
Andrew Luck #7 273.4 YPG
...
Ryan Fitzpatrick #24 212.5 YPG
Chad Henne #25 208.4 YPG
Ryan Tannehill #26, 205.9 YPG
...
Matt Cassell #29, 199.6 YPG
Jake Locker #30 197.8 YPG
Russell Wilson #31 194.9 YPG
Kevin Kolb #32 194.8 YPG
Mark Sanchez #33 192.2 YPG
Christian Ponder #34 183.4 YPG
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08-13-13 02:29 PM #48
It's all good. If everyone agreed life would be boring.
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08-13-13 03:02 PM #49
Atlanta fukked me so bad in that game by not covering... they fukked me real bad. Originally Posted by slacker00
but i dont expect a sophmore slump as yall say from wilson. the seahawks dont ask him to do much...
they dont need him to do much
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08-13-13 03:45 PM #50
The only thign Wilson and Sanchez had in common in their rookie years is their passing yards. If you want to claim one category makes two players similar, then go ahead. Originally Posted by C-Gold
Wilson's rookie year Vs. Sanchez's rookie year:
Wilson's ranked #8 in QBR, Sanchez #26 in QBR.
Wilson ranked #4 in yards per attempt, Sanchez ranked #18 in yards per attempt.
Wilson ranked #4 in passer-rating, Sanchez was #28 in passer-rating
Wilson ranked #7 in completion percentage, Sanchez ranked #29 in completion percentage
Wilson threw 26 TD's and 10 INT's, Sanchez had 12 TD's and 20 INT's.
Exactly how are they similar? Other than your passing yards category?
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08-13-13 03:47 PM #51
I posted a list with many players. You say that Romo and Stafford aren't so great, they averaged over 100 yards more than RW every single game. It is unlikely that a 5'10 Russell Wilson will ever pass for 4900 yards in a season. At his height, he might be backup QB in 5 years nevermind passing for 4900 yards. So can you name me any good QB's that averaged under 200 YPG last year, here's the list? These are his passing peers. Originally Posted by swordsandtequila
Matt Cassell?
Jake Locker?
Kevin Kolb?
Mark Sanchez?
Christian Ponder?
Alex Smith?
Blaine Gabbart?
I am sure that is a great list of QB's because passing yards don't matter. I mean Christian Ponder took his team to the playoffs right? Sanchez has a 4-2 playoff record and went to 2 AFC championships right?
Mark Sanchez is pure trash and Russell Wilson is god right? It's ludacris to compare them? I mean the Mexican should be quarterbacking some team in Canada right while Russell Wilson on his way to winning multi super bowls?
Mark Sanchez has a 4-2 career playoff record with 2 AFC championships.
2010: Sanchez was 11-5 as a starter, He passed for 3,291 yards, 17 TD, 13 INT and 3 rushing TD.
2012: Wilson was 11-5 as a starter, He passed for 3118 yards, 26 TD, 10 INT and 4 rushing TD.
and that's counting a fluke win over Green Bay with a fluke TD pass to Golden Tate. Without that cheap call then Wilson is 10-6, Has 25 TD and 11 INT and about 40 less yards.
Sanchez also took a similar defense/small ball team to the AFC championship, won 2 playoff games and played decent. Russell Wilson had a Mark Sanchez 2010 season. That's it. Stop hyping the guy up. He wasn't Drew Brees last year, he was a game manager.
Now tell me this, did Sanchez go 11-5 as a starter and go to the AFC championship because he's good or because he had a strong defense, a good line and a run game?
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08-13-13 03:51 PM #52
David Garrard had a pretty efficient year in 2007. People like you said LOOK AT THE STATS, THIS GUY IS GOOD! Originally Posted by Speedy88
Russell Wilson had a dominant defense last year and was a GAME MANAGER.
He didn't pass for yards, he didn't get attempts, he managed the game, and now you are ready to extrapolate his stats... I'm sure if he passed 40 times per game he'd be putting up Drew Brees numbers right?
Sanchez had the worst receiver corp in the league last year on a joke team. When he had a defense and running game he won too. It's a lot easier to be a game manager than a passing QB and Wilson was not a passing QB.
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08-13-13 03:55 PM #53
Stafford Sucks
Luck Sucks
Yards are overrated.
Both these guys will have lots of passing yards and won't win anything this year.
Russell Wilson can only get worse though not better.
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08-13-13 04:06 PM #54
Andrew Luck is the best young QB in the game. Originally Posted by k13
He took a 2 win team to the playoffs. He didn't win a playoff game but he lost on the road to the eventual champs.
He has the size, the smarts, the mobility, and the arm and passing.
He didn't have the #1 defense last year and he had no name players around him. There is a reason why he was the unanimous #1 pick over Rg3 and anybody else, he would have been the #1 pick the year before over Cam Newton.
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08-13-13 04:58 PM #55
Your comparison of Wilson to Sanchez is insane. After 4 season Sanchez still looks lost; Wilson established himself as the leader almost immediately. You can compare stats all you want, bottom line is the guy is a winner. Can't teach it, some guys just have it. Here's some stats for you:
Passing Yards Career - 40,551 (15 seasons)
YPG - 211.2
QBR - 92.3
TDs - 273 (18.2/year)
Rings - 4
Little 3rd round pick named Montana; worked out pretty well for him. Good qb's put up the yards when they need to, not because they can. If Wilson was 6'2" this wouldn't even be a debate. But whatever, to each his own.
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08-13-13 05:05 PM #56
Hey numbnuts, do you realize Montana played in a different NFL with different rules? Jerry Rice used to get hit all across the field. Quarterbacks would get hit after plays. Quarterbacks got hit in the knees and below. Receivers would get smashed when the pass was thrown anywhere in their direction. There is a reason why Matt Stafford threw for 5,000 yards last year and it's not because he's good. Originally Posted by swordsandtequila
Russell Wilson has a very limited sample size, he's started 16 games. As I mentioned 3 times, Mark Sanchez who sucks was similar statistically and winning % and playoff winning % early in his career. You could also say that "Tim Tebow" was a leader. So what he can't pass and plays QB.
Let's put him on the Colts, Miami, or Cardinals and see what he does without the #1 defense behind him and a running game.
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08-13-13 05:54 PM #57
I've been civil in my responses to you, but if you can't see the difference between Wilson and Sanchez just watching them play (which seems to be obvious to everyone but you), then you're the f*king numbnuts. Oh, and yeah, I know Montana played in a different era. Same era as Dan Marino, John Elway, and Warren Moon, give or take a couple years. Numbers 2, 4, and 5 in NFL history (passing yards). Number 6? Fran Tarkenton, who retired one year before Montana was drafted. Different era, same result. Nobody's saying passing yards don't matter, it's just not the best indicator for success; accuracy and smarts are. Sanchez lacks both. But keep on hating, I'm done.
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08-13-13 06:56 PM #58
hes better than tebow
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08-13-13 07:35 PM #59
How are they similar statistically other than the passing yards stat? I just showed you how dissimilar they are. Please name me a few INDIVIDUAL stats other than passing yards that prove Wilson is similar to Sanchez. I'll go first, here are is my evidence how they are not similar: Originally Posted by C-Gold
Wilson's ranked #8 in QBR, Sanchez #26 in QBR.
Wilson ranked #4 in yards per attempt, Sanchez ranked #18 in yards per attempt.
Wilson ranked #4 in passer-rating, Sanchez was #28 in passer-rating
Wilson ranked #7 in completion percentage, Sanchez ranked #29 in completion percentage
Wilson threw 26 TD's and 10 INT's, Sanchez had 12 TD's and 20 INT's.
The 2012 Seahawks may be fairly similar to the 2009 Jets (both had rookie QB's, both had great run games, and both had great defenses). But there are literally no similarities between the two quarterbacks. The fact that Wilson threw 26 TD's and had only 10 INT's compared to Sanchez's 12 TD's and 20 INT's says enough.
Also the Jets had a MUCH better receiving core than Seattle. Seattle had arguably a bottom 5 receiving core in the NFL last year. Sidney Rice is not a #1 WR, Golden Tate is a questionable #2 WR, and Zach Miller is far from an elite TE. Sanchez was throwing to Santonio Holmes who was coming off his superbowl MVP, and Braylon Edwards when he was a pro-bowler.
Personally, I just don't think you like Russell Wilson. You bring up his passing yards but don't even give him credit for his 489 rushing yards and 4 rushing TD's. Just watch what he'll do with Percy Harvin now.
And like I said, I don't care if you call him a "Game-Manager." I'd much rather have a "Game-Managing" Russell Wilson who only throws for 200 yards a game but takes care of the football and wins games than a Tony Romo or Matthew Stafford who fling the ball all over the place and throw interceptions left and right.
All that matters in the NFL is winning games. Ben Roethlesberger is a great example of that. He was never a gun slinger, and he never threw that much on those superbowl Steeler teams, yet they won. Why throw when you have a great running game? Why throw when you want to control the tempo and sustain the lead? There is no reason for Russell or Big Ben to throw 35 times for 275+ yards.
And lets not even get into the whole...."If Russell were on the Dolphins or Colts" conversation because he isn't. We're not in fantasy land.
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08-13-13 08:41 PM #60
Speedy88
David Garrard 2007
#3 in QB rating in the NFL
#7 in yards per attempt
#11 in completion percentage
18 TD, 3 INT
He had a 9-3 record as a starter for the playoff Jags who had the 3rd best record in the AFC.
Yet he only threw for 209 Passing yards per game. Ohhh but he just won! That's all the Jags asked him to do right? There plenty of people like you who said LOOK AT THE STATS, HE'S GOOD, HE'S MOBILE, HE WINS, HE THROWS TDS AND DOESN'T MAKE MISTAKES, HE LED HIS TEAM TO THE PLAYOFFS!!! He was a game manager and I was telling people like you back then that he wasn't that good. Just wait. Now look at him, what happened to him? He's such a valuable game manager right? Then why did he fall off the face of the earth? It's much easier being a game manager and trying not to lose games than trying to win games.
2007 David Garrard comparison is better, but the Sanchez comparison works too. Why did you send me Sanchez's stats from last year, I was comparing Sanchez early in his career when he was a game manager on a talented roster and led the Jets to two AFC championships. It's called fools gold.
Oh and Tony Romo is a better player than Russell Wilson and it is highly unlikely he will ever pass for 4900 yards in an NFL season. I am no fan of Stafford but Stafford isn't 5'10 and has a much stronger arm and more upside.
Maybe Russell Wilson will be a good passing QB passing QB one day but right now he's not. Maybe he could play the role of Trent Dilfer on the 2000 Ravens and you guys could win a super bowl???
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08-13-13 09:09 PM #61
Those are Sanchez's stats from his rookie year (2009). I am actually a bit surprised how bad they are. He was pretty bad from the beginning, I'm not sure why Jets fans are in such shock about where Sanchez currently is. Originally Posted by C-Gold
I understand your argument. It's really hard to tell how good Russell actually is because he does play on such a dominant team. I'm not sure if the Garrard comparison is fair, because I think Garrard fell off because of injuries and he started his career so late. He didn't become a starter until he was 28 years old. Personally, I just don't like comparing players to other players. Comparing players is for people discussing football, but no two players are that alike.
I completely agree with your bold statement about it being much easier to be a game manager than trying to win games. Which is why Romo's INT totals are so high. I'm actually a pretty big Romo fan. I just think it is unfair to bash on Wilson because he happens to play on such a good team. It isn't his fault he only has to throw 25 times a game and that he plays behind a dominant defense. However, I will say this. In the games he did have to throw, he did it well. He threw for 385 yards against the Falcons when the Seahawks fell behind, and he threw for 293 when the Seahawks fell behind to the Pats in the regular season. He "manages" the game when he needs to, but he can become a "gun-slinger" when need be too.
I understand your arguments C-Gold, I guess we just have a difference of opinion. Enjoyed the conversation. Maybe we can revisit this a year from now.
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08-14-13 12:12 AM #62
Instead of talking about RW's yardage, how about his TDs (34) an NFL rookie QB record.
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09-15-13 09:43 PM #63
Another fine showing by Mr. Russell Wilson.
The little man is 1 for 9 with a pick and hasn't completed a single pass to one of his Wide Receivers.
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09-15-13 10:56 PM #64
Yeah, he sucks! They should bench him immediately! Originally Posted by C-Gold
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09-22-13 06:08 PM #65
Espn will be sucky crowning him this week as well after he threw for 4 TDs against the Jaguars at home
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09-22-13 06:21 PM #66
I don't really care if people call him a game-manager or if he averages under 200 yards a game. As long as he wins, he can keep quarterbacking my team.
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