[robzilla]

Everytime I turn on CNN they show a townhall meeting some redneck yahoo is yelling about Canadian style healthcare. Conservatives are freaking out without knowing what Obamas plan really is.

Anyways, Im from Canada. I have my own doctor. last time I was there the wait was 5 minutes. The clinic near my place can have up to 30 minute wait times, but half an hour is no big deal. I havent had to go to the hospital in a while, but Ive heard there are wait times of a couple hours sometimes.

My doctor doesnt get told by the government what treatment I should get or what drugs I need to take.

I feel the only bad thing about our system is the taxes it takes to fuel the system, but no one has even brought that up on CNN. I guess I dont get what all the panic is about. Isnt going from no insurance or under insured worse than having some form heathcare?

[smitch124]

Among others...

[pavyracer]

American policy makers are owned by the healthcare lobbys. They specifically pay for their villas, yachts, cars and hookers to promote this highly profited system they have in place right now. Too much money involved to offer something that makes sense like the canadian health care system.

[nosniboR11]

We are not all idiots like pavy, down here in America. Must be why all the Canadians that really get sick flock to America for treatment.

[fiveteamer]

No system is perfect, and no system is free.

However, socialized health care is the model that most of the free, developed world chooses. For good reason.

[DwightShrute]

Both the Canadian and American systems have their downfalls. I don't trust Obama's intentions but I hope they agree on something.

[jon101]

Could it be the years of waiting lists for procedures for the elderly clogging up Canadian health care?
Maybe its the outrageous price tag of sub standard care?
Maybe its that for profit medicine is not reliable either but the end results are often better.

[ABEHONEST]

Maybe it's the population ratio ?
Surely Canada must have more Doctors available than their neighbor's down South ?

I know of many patients that have to wait several hours to get medical treatment from an EMERGENCY Doctor !

[reno cool]

what pavy and smitch said. Nothing in the US gets done unless some rich ****s stand to make a killing. So, in order to change the system they will have to show the ins and drug companies among others how the new plan makes them even more $. It's not about the public, never has been.

[Pokerjoe]

American policy makers are owned by the healthcare lobbys. They specifically pay for their villas, yachts, cars and hookers to promote this highly profited system they have in place right now. Too much money involved to offer something that makes sense like the canadian health care system.

QFT.

[Pokerjoe]

Personally, I'm glad we have "socialized" national defense, police services, fire departments, schools and libraries.

Now if only we can expand it to health care.

[thespeculator]

Maybe it's the population ratio ?
Surely Canada must have more Doctors available than their neighbor's down South ?

I know of many patients that have to wait several hours to get medical treatment from an EMERGENCY Doctor !

actually there is a doctor shortage in every part of canada, many cities are offering incentives to have doctors move to their city.

[keyboarding]

Public healthcare doesn't really work either, like the one in Canada. Any decent doctor won't stay in this country because they can make a lot more money operating in America, so that's where they go. Canada gets the medical school leftovers. On top of that, the lack of charges for most services means longer wait times because everyone thinks they are sick all the time, so clinics are usually clogged. Lastly, if you ever need emergency care, God forbid, you're pretty much ****ed. I waited 9 hours in the waiting room when I had appendicitis, my father waiting 12 hours when we thought he was having heart troubles. Thankfully I'm almost never sick so I've never had to rely on the system more than a few times. I have overheard doctors telling patients to go to the States to get MRIs, because wait times in Ontario are months long. Both systems are broken, but hey, hopefully we make money handicapping and never have to worry about this stuff, right?

[pavyracer]

I have waited 6 hrs at a US hospital before to see the doctor. I spend 2 hrs to fill in the paperwork for the insurance. After answering 20 pages of ridiculous questions I saw a nurse for about 1 hr. Then she left and I waited for about 3 hrs for the doctor to arrive. He spend about 5 minutes checking my heartbeat and blood pressure and he told me I had to get a referral for another doctor in 2 months when there is an available opening in his schedule to get an exam. I pay $500 a month in insurance premiums for this outstanding health care system we have in place right now.

[keyboarding]

I have waited 6 hrs at a US hospital before to see the doctor. I spend 2 hrs to fill in the paperwork for the insurance. After answering 20 pages of ridiculous questions I saw a nurse for about 1 hr. Then she left and I waited for about 3 hrs for the doctor to arrive. He spend about 5 minutes checking my heartbeat and blood pressure and he told me I had to get a referral for another doctor in 2 months when there is an available opening in his schedule to get an exam. I pay $500 a month in insurance premiums for this outstanding health care system we have in place right now.

Aren't the bills and EOBs in the mail? What were you filling out for 2 hours? And how serious was your condition? Seems kind of idiotic for them to leave a guy with any kind of serious condition alone for that long.

[ijustwant2bpaid]

Canada has a great healthcare system vs. the US but dont they limi you to one liver/heart surgery etc. This is pretty screwed up if u ask me..

[pavyracer]

Aren't the bills and EOBs in the mail? What were you filling out for 2 hours? And how serious was your condition? Seems kind of idiotic for them to leave a guy with any kind of serious condition alone for that long.

Basically they were forms I had to sign up releasing them from liability in case they screw up and kill me during the exam (x-ray machine fukks up and I get bombarded with gamma rays and get cancer, etc). They asked me if I'm allergic to every single food available on the planet, if my family members have cancer, heart attacks, AIDS and every imaginable disease that exists on this planet. I read every page as well as the fine print before I signed. It was 25 pages of questions and crap.

[fiveteamer]

Why does the U.S. have to have the EXACT Canadian system?

Perhaps they could improve upon it.

The current system in the U.S. is a race to the bottom. Something has to change.

[keyboarding]

Canada has a great healthcare system vs. the US but dont they limi you to one liver/heart surgery etc. This is pretty screwed up if u ask me..

No.

Basically they were forms I had to sign up releasing them from liability in case they screw up and kill me during the exam (x-ray machine fukks up and I get bombarded with gamma rays and get cancer, etc). They asked me if I'm allergic to every single food available on the planet, if my family members have cancer, heart attacks, AIDS and every imaginable disease that exists on this planet. I read every page as well as the fine print before I signed. It was 25 pages of questions and crap.

That's strange. Is it because it was an out-of-network hospital that didn't have your medical files on record? I've never heard of this happening.

[fiveteamer]

Well you just heard about it now guy.

I actually never heard about a guy waiting 9 hrs in emergency for an appendicitis, so I guess we are all hearing new things today.

[keyboarding]

Why does the U.S. have to have the EXACT Canadian system?

Perhaps they could improve upon it.

The current system in the U.S. is a race to the bottom. Something has to change.

I don't know what you could do. The fact of the matter is people with money will pay for their medical services, the best doctors will go where the money is, and the poor are left with scraps. Has anyone watched that Moore film about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pqv5...eature=related

[keyboarding]

Well you just heard about it now guy.

I actually never heard about a guy waiting 9 hrs in emergency for an appendicitis, so I guess we are all hearing new things today.

Well, I'm saying that I haven't heard it because I've studied American healtcare for work, built an entire bill management system around it. I'm not doubting him, just curious about the situation surrounding it.

As for 6+ hour long waits in emergency rooms in Ontario, that shouldn't be uncommon. I'm not sure how long it is in other provinces, but it's consistently frighteningly long here.

[fiveteamer]

I live in downtown Toronto.

Sure, there is the odd family of 8 who can't speak English in the emergency room with stuffy noses, but that is a product of Canada, not a socialized health system.

Maybe it's the luck of the draw? I've never had an unusual wait time in an emergency.

BTW, there's more to health care than emergency rooms.

I get to see a dermatologist without ever seeing a bill, how great is that?

[keyboarding]

BTW, there's more to health care than emergency rooms.

I get to see a dermatologist without ever seeing a bill, how great is that?

Well, it's not like we don't pay at all.

Maybe it's where I live, but wait times in the hospitals in Richmond Hill are brutal. Also, the quality of doctors in clinics, for the most part, is sub par. It's also irritating that every time I go or anyone I know goes, they always prescribe something to pick up at the clinic next door. Always.

[fiveteamer]

That's why I said in my first post that no system is perfect, and no system is free.

I know I will be taxed. I don't even look at my gross pay. I'd perfer my tax dollars going to keeping people healthy, rather than nuclear war heads.

What the hell do I know.

[andywend]

I live in downtown Toronto.

Sure, there is the odd family of 8 who can't speak English in the emergency room with stuffy noses, but that is a product of Canada, not a socialized health system.

Maybe it's the luck of the draw? I've never had an unusual wait time in an emergency.

BTW, there's more to health care than emergency rooms.

I get to see a dermatologist without ever seeing a bill, how great is that?

The answer to your question is TERRIBLE.

This one sentence in a nutshell explains the BIGGEST problem when it comes to the delivery of medicine.

Medical insurance should only come into play when major medical treatment is involved and that was the original intent.

If little Johnny has the sniffles, then an upfront payment should be made to the physician WITHOUT EXCEPTION.

Medical care is NOT a right of every American and should NEVER be.

I do agree with some of Obama's medical care reform suggestions like not being able to deny people medical insurance coverage due to pre-existing conditions.

The 85%+ of Americans who currently have medical coverage are going to see a serious reduction in the quality of medical care they receive if Obama's plan becomes a reality.

The vast majority of Americans don't want it and for good reason which explains why Obama's approval numbers keep dropping.

Nothing has changed since 1994 when Americans soundly rejected Hillary's attempt to socialize the medical care system.

Robzilla, while your medical care system in Canada might be better for the small minority who don't have coverage, it is FAR FAR WORSE for those that do which explains why American's "aren't down" with Canada's socialized system.

[fiveteamer]

That is where we differ. I happen to believe certain things are a right.

Housing, food, water, access to heath care.

And if you think going to a dermatologist is frivolous, I go to get moles checked out for cancer. It's much cheaper to catch the cancer before it develops full bore.

[Mac4Lyfe]

I think the one thing they need to change is the way the medical industry does it's billing. It's fuking ridiculous. I never know what the hell service I got nor do I know why I was billed what I was billed. Even the people doing the billing have no idea in most cases what their service cost.

Medical services rendered should be standardized. An MRI at one facility should be the same price in another facility down the street. Also, we should be able to see the total bill of a visit and not just our out of pocket expenses. I visit the doctor today, I pay $20 out of pocket but my insurance maybe getting charged $1,000 I don't know.

When my wife and I had a baby, I negotiated all the charges, paid cash and got steep discounts. If everyone could do this, it would reduce cost across the board. Unfortunately there's a lot of money being made by keeping the billing archaic, confusing and hidden.

[fiveteamer]

The thing is, insurers have teams of Ive League lawyers that do nothing but put doublespeak into their contracts to make you pay more and more for less and less.

[ElCapitan]

The reason a socialized system would never work in the US is very simple: you would have far too many takers and not enough payers. The tax rate required to support it would be so outrageous that it would almost be better to stay home and do nothing.

As to why you see "some redneck yahoo yelling about a Canadian style system", have you looked at any other system the US government has run? Medicare, welfare, Social Security, etc. - great ideas on paper but bureaucratic messes when put into practice. It's not that we don't like Canada, it's that we don't want the government running anything else.

[fiveteamer]

The reason those things are constantly under attack from neo-cons is simple.

Nobody makes any money off of Medicare, Social Security etc...


Take a few slivers of the mility budget, and move it over to Education and Health, watch the quality of life imprive tenfold in the United States.

[andywend]

That is where we differ. I happen to believe certain things are a right.
Housing, food, water, access to heath care.

And if you think going to a dermatologist is frivolous, I go to get moles checked out for cancer. It's much cheaper to catch the cancer before it develops full bore.

When you say housing, food, water and access to health care should be a "right", does than mean you believe all these things should be provided free of charge to all those who can't afford it or who don't want to pay for it? Assuming the answer to this question is yes, then my next question is who should be responsible for paying for all of these things?

As El Capitan correctly stated:
"The reason a socialized system would never work in the US is very simple: you would have far too many takers and not enough payers. The tax rate required to support it would be outrageous"

In the U.S., there is way too high of a percentage of people who consume far more than they produce. It is this very reason why a government takeover of our medical care system is doomed to fail.

Going to a dermatologist certainly isn't frivolous in any way. However, I don't believe you have the "right" to ask someone else to pay for it and its certainly NOT the doctors responsibility to provide his services free of charge.

Mac4Lyfe, what you said was spot on the money. The insurance companies are a big part of the problem and things would be far less complicated if everyone simply paid for their medical services in cash or arranged credit terms. This is the way things were done before medical insurance companies. If you didn't have the money or didn't want to spend money on medical services, then you were forced to take your chances with county-type medical care.

If I need medical care, I can see any doctor I please within 24 hours for any reason I see fit. EVERY SINGLE PERSON living in the U.S. also has this luxury if they are willing to pay for it even if it means NOT buying that new stereo system or color TV.

Do Canadians under your wonderful socialized system have this option?

5Teamer, the U.S. already spends way too much money on education and throwing more money at the problem is NOT the answer and will NOT improve the quality of our educational system.

As far as taking money out of our military budget, what would you Canadians do if you couldn't rely on the U.S. to protect your interests when your enemies came calling and believe me you have plenty of enemies.

[head_strong]

No system is perfect, and no system is free.

However, socialized health care is the model that most of the free, developed world chooses. For good reason.

Well said.....

[SPECULATOR 13]

Everytime I turn on CNN they show a townhall meeting some redneck yahoo is yelling about Canadian style healthcare.

ZILLA :
Have you ever heard of the expression
"you don't give pearls to pigs"
that's why they don't get it.

[Sinister Cat]

Why does the U.S. have to have the EXACT Canadian system?

Perhaps they could improve upon it.

The current system in the U.S. is a race to the bottom. Something has to change.

I agree with this -- since when is the Canadian healthcare system the benchmark for socialized medicine?

Having lived in both Canada & the U.S. I can say that, from my own experience (and as someone who has insurance in the U.S.), that there does not seem to be much difference between the two countries in the quality/availability of care from a user's perspective. Neither country's system is ranked very high in the various rankings that are out there.

Why not look to France, Italy, et al?