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I think perhaps the 0% will need to be extended at least for the rest of the year.Originally Posted by Optional
And they will need to provide in running betting to properly compete with Betfair.
But even then when they do charge commission they are at a disadvantage as traders won't play there until commission is charged on net winnings rather than on every bet win or lose.
Last edited by Hareeba!; 07-20-16 at 06:49 PM.
Completely agree that their commission model doesn't lend itself at all to horse racing traders, of which such a huge proportion of volume in an exchange comes from. I find it interesting that they did a promotion a few months back around the same time they announced they added horse racing, I think if I remember correctly it was on the IPL Cricket, Matchbook were doing 2% net win commission with no commission on losses for IPL Cricket markets, the same as Smarkets standard commission model. I can't think they were doing that just for fun and it seems a strange promotion to do so I think they may have finally noticed that their commission model has a ceiling to how far it can go and the type of customers it can attract and maybe they might move to a net win commission model at some point. It certainly seems to be something they are exploring at least.
Considering they have only just fully launched horse racing on their site, it isn't too bad but it's barely even comparable to the other exchanges until you get to 30 minutes before the race and even then it's still extremely patchy. I agree that they would be best extending their 0% period. A couple of years or so back Matchbook did 0% on football for a good 6 months or so and even with that the football isn't brilliant with them so I think it will need at least that sort of time to drum up any support for horse racing, but even then I really can't see them challenging the other exchanges in any way on horse racing because of their commission model.
And now a further update:
The balance on my account with Geoff Banks finally turned up.
But 8 days after I accepted his settlement offer to top up my payout to BOG I emailed him to ask if he'd remitted it as yet.
His response somewhat floored me:
"It’s been sent xxxxx, but you’re not UK and things take longer- please try to grow up – you’ve already managed to get your account closed and opt out of up to £2500 in free bets a year, because you’re excessively petty- not all that bright are you?"
Then 6 minutes later I received an email from a member of his team:
"Geoff has just passed me your e mail
We are withholding the £29 you are claiming. We require an unequivocal undertaking with the payment of £29 that the matter is closed and we will not hear about it either with regards to betting adjudication services – or via online such as twitter and the like. When we receive this undertaking – we agree to an ex gratia payment.
Without this undertaking, we will not pay what you are claiming. Which we dispute. The undertaking must be via e mail and make both these issues entirely clear – without qualification or reference to dispute. We see this as an ex gratia payment which we see absolutely no obligation to pay."
So, once again I've caught Banks out for lying.
After a further exchange of emails in which I told them that I accept their settlement terms as stated they have now ceased responding.
Not only has he been caught out for lying at least twice but now for welching on our agreement.
Accordingly I no longer feel bound by the undertakings I gave.
Look out Geoff!
never will liquidity at matchbook other than 3 major usa sports . some tennis and some soccer all real big matches/leagues
So Banks shut your account after just one bet? If that's the case that's going some even for today's bookmaking standards. Banks always says that he always gives the customer at least a month of betting activity for him to assess your betting patterns etc for him to judge what sort of customer you are and he says even if you are restricted you can always bet to win at least £100 so that's a complete joke if he has closed your account already. Rather than him say your account is closed for being petty, he should just be honest and say that he doesn't see you as easy pickings and thinks he may lose to you in the long term although him admitting that would hurt his ego too much.
Who is he to say you are petty as he is the one now reneging on the agreement to pay £29 for goodness sake. Why didn't he pay the £29 in your original withdrawal anyway?
However Banks and his team try to word it, it seems like a bribe more than anything to me with them saying they will give you the £29 to shut you up. The truth is that if Banks had nothing to hide and his team had given you good service etc throughout then he should be more than happy to debate the issue in public but he obviously knows that's not the case so he's trying to buy your silence.
Banks comes out of this debacle very badly. To the mugs he comes across as all Mr Niceguy who you can have a bit of a laugh with and goes out of his way to say that he will take big bets from all customers except from the most hardened professional gamblers and traders but the truth is that as soon as he thinks he's got somebody that knows what they are doing and points out any errors him and his team have made, he gets all aggressive, rude and personal and shuts your account after one bet. That's him unveiling the mask and showing his true colours. Shame on you Banks
No. HE didn't close my account.
I asked that the pay me the balance which he did but not including the BOG bonus.
The whole reason I opened the account in the first place was to access BOG prices on UK racing. The major firms won't let me bet at all let alone offer BOG to Australians. Without BOG his service really has no appeal to me. I'd rather trust my luck with Betfair's SP.
Ok well at least Banks didn't close your account himself, I thought it was a bit much for him to do that after 1 bet but I certainly wouldn't have put it past him and you probably wouldn't have been far away from the heave-ho anyway. Do you have any accounts at all left currently that can get you BOG apart from the possible Real Deal Bet and Netbet that was suggested earlier?
Since the Banks debacle I have opened and started using accounts with NetBet and Jenningsbet.
Both use the same interface and I find their system close to incomprehensible and getting anyone to explain it has so far proven fruitless.
On selecting a horse it commonly shows a stake of 10. I press the Max Bet button and it displays say 55.
So, being ok with that I proceed to submit the bet.
One of two things then happens:
1. The bet isn't processed and the system advises Max Stake is 55.
2. The bet goes off for consideration with the message that the bet exceeds the maximum. Nevertheless most of the time it is accepted but sometimes it comes back saying the odds or the stake have been changed and offering me the option to accept or reject.
The stake being automatically at 10 is most probably just the default stake. Not sure why after their system saying max stake is 55 then the system would then come up with a message saying again that the max bet is 55, maybe just a computer glitch and maybe if you place a bet a slight bit below the stated figure it may go through without that message coming up.
If placing a bet that it isn't over the stated maximum and it still goes off to the traders, then your account is probably under review and probably every bet you put through will go to a trader so you're well on your way to getting limited.
If you're betting at these sorts of books for UK racing then it seems like you are scraping the bottom of the barrel and the well is going to run dry for you very soon indeed. It sounds like you would have been through all of the books I can think of that offer BOG. At least when betting on other sports you have have Pinnacle to fall back on if you're limited everywhere else whereas with horse racing, no serious bookie even touches UK racing, so it probably will be very soon that you will end up being forced to have no option but to bet at exchange prices or at an exchange SP if you want to continue betting on UK racing.
Last edited by luctens; 07-26-16 at 08:15 PM.
If it's just a computer glitch it seems very odd that it's so common and happening on both sites.
Yes, I've attempted placing bets slightly lower, eg. 50 but still get the Max stake is 55 message.
Yes, I fully expect that to be the case before too long. Precisely what happened earlier in the year at 10Bet.
That's why an independent like Banks was so appealing to me.
For most sports Pinnacle and Matchbook are my go to places. And Betfair for golf.
However, on the horizon is the very real chance that Aussies are going to be barred from betting with Pinnacle and Matchbook.
And that's going to be a very serious situation for me as the Aussie based books on the whole are just useless.
And then there is this little classic ....
"Your stake is too high. Increase Max amount or consult betting limits, then try again."
I find it a little odd that the odds and Max Stakes quoted by both these firms are identical for every horse.
They both use SBTech white label software. I expect SBTech would give each book the option of something like a low, medium or high stake limit setting to apply as standard limits for each sport so it would just be that Netbet and Jenningsbet would have selected the same stake limit setting for horse racing with SBTech when they added horse racing to their site.
and quoting the same odds across the board?
Service at NetBet is utterly deplorable.
I've twice been on live chat trying to get an explanation for the way their limits work and don't accept bets at less than the stated maximum.
Both times their reps couldn't explain, told me they would refer it to their techs and I'd get an email response. It's now 9 and 7 sleeps later respectively and still no email.
My account representative is equally out of her depth. I've asked can she get a tech guy to call me but she says they don't do calls.
It's a standard white label operation SBTech offers so it will be the same odds for all SBTech bookmakers unless the bookmakers themselves decide to individually manage the odds.
I've never come across the specific problems you're having with Netbet in any SBTech bookmakers so if you still get nowhere with it, maybe ask Netbet if you can close your current account and create a new account and for them to transfer all of your account details across to the new account as it seems like it may just be a glitch when the account was created or something so possibly creating a fresh account could solve the problems you're having.
Last edited by luctens; 07-30-16 at 06:41 PM.
Now been several weeks since I asked for an explanation and have repeatedly been told that the tech guys are looking into it but still nothing.
Getting to stage that it probably doesn't matter anymore as my bet sizes this week have been reduced to pocket change levels at both Netbet and Jennings. Clearly not just a coincidence. I did expect this to happen but still it pisses me off. Same as happened to me at 188Bet earlier in the year.
So once again I'm on the lookout for a bookie who'll give me BOG. I suspect there really aren't any left for me.
Is it possible that talking to them less might extend your welcome a bit?
You might be showing them that you know too much?
If there are technical problems that are affecting the ability to place bets normally and they aren't sorting it out then there isn't really much you can do but keep badgering them. These issues and the ongoing contact Hareeba would have had to keep with them because of these technical issues may have attracted some unwanted attention to his account, but I don't see he really had much choice here but to keep in constant contact with them. It wouldn't have made too much difference in any case, they are pussies like the rest of them and they would have limited him in double quick time anyway given he would have shown them a propensity to know what value is.
I think Hareeba is in a situation that a lot of knowledgeable horse racing punters especially in the UK are now in having burned all reputable bookmakers and only left with the exchanges to get any bets on. At least if you bet on other sports you have Pinnacle etc to have a go at, but with horse racing, no serious bookmaker takes good bets on it at good prices, let alone offer BOG, so it's exchanges or bust.
Last edited by luctens; 08-16-16 at 02:26 PM.
Clearly I don't know too much if I'm too dumb to work out what their system is telling me!
Banks is a total bellend. Talks a good game, but not much else. Claims to give punters a month to establish betting patters, but myself and others have discovered that this is just lies. Discussion on him and his operation here:
http://community.betfair.com/horse_r...n-utter-cretin
Jenningsbet has bricks and mortar shops in the UK, so you should theoretically be on safer ground there. 12Bet, Fun88, TLCBet and 138.com are all similar operations owned by the same holding company in the main. Be extremely careful, as they made the national press in March over confiscating balances of people who opened accounts at more than one of the group, despite them supposedly being separate companies. Irrespective of the data sharing issues that this throws up, who wants to play there any more?
I'm assuming that you've had a stab at the major high street UK books such as Will Hill. Have you tried Betstars? Would suspect that the limits aren't great, but might be worth a go. Unibet/888Sport/32Red all use the same interface and are competitive. None of these books offer BOG, sadly, but might be worth having an account at for the EP prices.
Why is BOG so important to you? You could just take the Betfair SP, safe in the knoweldge that 99.99% of the time it will beat the on course SP anyway. I reckon about 80% of early price bets will beat SP anyway, simply because of the way the SP is manipulated at UK courses. I should also add that, should you have the nerve to back a winner, you will most likely be closed down. Should you do so with BOG thrown into the mix as well, you're on even more borrowed time. UK books simply don't want to lay bets on sport any more - they want people playing the casinos and arcades, where they'll do their money for definite.
Unfortunately, since changing the currency of my Betfair account which required a different username I've not been able to access the Betfair community so can't read about that.
Thanks. I've not had accounts with those others you mention.
Yes. I've worn out my welcome at all the major shops and most won't take Aussie punters but I'm not familiar with Betstars. All I can find for them is a casino?
I'm in Australia. I can't stay up all night to follow the markets on UK racing. I get good information, most of those I back which win start at shorter odds but enough start at much better odds than is available in the early markets thus BOG has great appeal to me. The problem with Betfair SP is that most of the winners finish up at shorter odds than when I need to place my bets and below what I would consider value odds. I do use BFSP but with a minimum price stipulation. However that's especially a problem when late scratchings occur after I've gone to bed and of course I don't get an opportunity to adjust my asking price.
Last edited by Hareeba!; 08-22-16 at 07:17 PM.
I can access the Betfair forum even when not logged in or anything so it's strange Hareeba that you can't access it.
Just to make it clear that TGP Europe doesn't own these books, they are just employed by all of these books to power and run these websites. These individual sportsbook operations are still ultimately owned by 12Bet, Fun88 etc. That TGP Europe debacle was a complete mess and certainly raises question marks over TGP Europe's handling of the accounts but in some way I think that makes them more safe than others as I don't think there's a hope in hell they will try that sort of stunt of confiscating players' balances again after the backlash they got in the press about that previously. My reading of the situation is that this was a solely TGP Europe decision to confiscate the balances because as I said they run the websites on behalf of 12Bet etc but as soon as the individual bookmakers in Asia got wind of all the press attention they soon got involved and returned player balances so I don't have any concerns over the actual Asian bookmakers, it is TGP Europe on behalf of these bookmakers that made the horrendous decision to confiscate balances. I'm surprised that these Asian books haven't changed to another white label provider over that debacle but I expect TGP Europe have been given a stay of execution but if they make one more stunt like this I expect their services will be relieved of so for that reason and for the reason that they have already tried this kind of stunt and got burned, I don't think there is any chance that they will try anything like that again so I would say that these TGP Europe books are fine to play at.
I also think that was actually a good precedent to set for all the other bookmakers watching where they will have seen that they better not try any funny business like that either so I don't think any bookmakers watching will try this sort of stunt because of the trouble caused by TGP Europe in that way I think it actually helped customers to set a precedent case.
Betstars is the sports betting arm of Pokerstars but I don't think they have allowed access to all countries for sports betting yet but it's probably still worth asking if they accept Australian customers. I don't use them but I don't see anywhere that they have BOG though.
Banks was on Twitter the other day saying he does have BOG. He better make up his mind! Although this BOG he has is just on the show prices, 15 minutes before the off. So some other bookmakers do BOG from something like 20 hours before the race and Banks does it a whole 15 minutes before the race. What big balls Banks has got.The fearless layer he calls himself.
Last edited by luctens; 08-23-16 at 01:42 AM.
Well as Banks blocked me from following him on Twitter I missed that.
Banks was on Twitter the other day saying he does have BOG. He better make up his mind! Although this BOG he has is just on the show prices, 15 minutes before the off. So some other bookmakers do BOG from something like 20 hours before the race and Banks does it a whole 15 minutes before the race. What big balls Banks has got.
Have you tried Apollobet? You won't last long before being limited, but they do BOG and accept Aussies (I think).
Have you got any mates in the UK? You need someone to hit the shops for you if possible. What sort of stakes are you wanting to get on? Are we talking £100 on a 10/1 shot or more?
Thanks, I've not come across Apollo before. They're a BoyleSports operation by the look of it? I lasted about 5 minutes there a decade ago.
Looks as though they don't offer Skrill
Might have to test them out.
No UK mates I would trust to bet for me. And couldn't see them getting out to the shops early enough!
Yeah up to £200 or so on occasions and sometimes over 10/1 chances.
Yes. Still, worth a go even if for one bet.
You'd need mates living in a city for those sort of stakes I'd imagine. They might get on at first, but would soon be down to £25 max, so ideally you'd need people in London, where there's a shitload of shops. Suppose if you paid them/gave them a %age of profit you'd get some interest. Depends on how profitable you are.
It doesn't seem like a good idea to sign up with Apollobet. They were bought by SeanieMac earlier this year and are due anytime now to be moved from the Boylesports platform onto the same platform as SeanieMac when SeanieMac re-open their site but this report http://www.igamingbusiness.com/news/...-fears-closure and various other ones online doesn't give a good outlook for SeanieMac/Apollobet.Thanks, I've not come across Apollo before. They're a BoyleSports operation by the look of it? I lasted about 5 minutes there a decade ago.
Looks as though they don't offer Skrill
Might have to test them out.
No UK mates I would trust to bet for me. And couldn't see them getting out to the shops early enough!
Yeah up to £200 or so on occasions and sometimes over 10/1 chances.
The fact that they have put out this report which is probably necessitated because they are on the stock market albeit apparently with a current share price of $0.0006
The company gives me the impression that they are reputable and responsible enough that if they did go out of business that they would do so early enough to pay all players back before they ceased trading rather than go completely broke and bankrupt but obviously there's absolutely no guarantee of that whatsoever and you don't really want money in a company with a very significant chance of going out of business soon so it's definitely a case of caveat emptor here.
This one is no good for you Hareeba, as it only takes UK residents but thought I would post it for others.
Claiming they will wager all comers for up to 500 pounds on all UK and Irish meetings.
blacktype.bet
Last edited by Optional; 08-29-16 at 07:52 PM.
Yes. I was initially interested in looking at them but as you say UK residents only but also no BOG so not really what I am looking for but hopefully they set a trend with their minimum bet guarantee.
Well it looks as though my brief stays with Jenningsbet and Netbet have come to an end.
Simultaneously both started limiting my bets to ONE GBP this week!
Just give up and use a betfair bot.
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