Problem with 5Dimes' Tony - robbed of $3600 in winnings

[shari91]

But without SBR looking to help the player he has no chance. If SBR looks at every situation that way where just because OP has a friend that hes guilty by association. Every one of us has some scumbag friend that we were friends with or are still friends with that always does bad shit. I had a buddy of mine one time cha.rgeba.ck on like 1500 bucks to pokerstars back in the day because he was a degenerate gambler who had no control and played online at my house sometimes. If every book or company took the 5dimes approach then i would of been considered a scumbag by association which i wasnt.
Also does every person share every detail of their life to another friend? I dont. The only way I see this as a legitimate argument for the books side is if he had deposited at the same time he signed up and placed a wager. He didnt do this and i mean he only bet 5k. Lets get serious, go through all that just to win 5k(which isnt a guarantee had it lost) and then leave?

The reason why I said the other day that the OP might be in trouble and I still believe it is because 5D has two specific mentions in their rules against bearding. Of course I'd never agree that anyone should be guilty *purely* by association... we either have friends who'd be considered dodgy by many or we'd even be considered the dodgy friends ourselves... we're gamblers!!! I've been a beard, I've used beards... it's not like I have some moral or ethical objection to them with books. But there comes a time when you have to stop being the ostrich with its head in the sand. And we also have to remember that Tony was not only a gambler but one of the most well-known, successful gamblers around before 5D and that's why he knows every angle there is to shoot and then some. I just see it all differently to you and I did from the start. It's all good though... that's what makes it interesting although the OP has disappeared a few days ago so as usual it's just the oldtimers keeping the thread alive haha!!

[HuskerExpat]

I can see that point of view too. (says the guy calling himself a mediator )



Yeah I know it does not mention device, but IP covers it and we all know what the intent of those clauses are. Arguing technicalities of wording isn't generally going to get anyone, even SBR, too far with Tony anyway.

I don't know how SBR could establish either way if the story is legit. It's about the guys intentions and a judgement call based on circumstantial evidence. If it was just the signup on the same device I would be with most of you saying punishment is not warranted but add on account 1 being limited just prior, the matching currency and matching market bet (yeah yeah, NFL sides are popular but it still is the same markets none the less) and I start to see ANY books position of suspicion of the account.

The 5Dimes terms and conditions do not mention device and they only mention IP address in the context of bonuses. Specifically, "Also, if bonuses are involved, customers may only have one AND ONLY ONE account number per household, email address, phone number and IP address without prior permission from management."

So the fact is that if you believe the story, then they guy didn't do anything wrong. Nothing. So there would be no reason to freeroll him, which they did. And SBR could establish the story is legit by checking the timing and the IP addresses as you've acknowledged. If the point of the SBR dispute resolution process isn't to investigate claims then what is it?

I agree that most complaints posted in this forum involve players not understanding the rules or taking shots at a book. That gives one every reason to be suspicious of the player's version of events. But IF the facts of this guy's story are true, then he did absolutely nothing wrong and should not be taken advantage of by 5Dimes.

[Optional]

I'd guess the agent did get that info from 5Dimes Husker. SBR_Forum would not have posted what they did without good info.

[shari91]

Heres a situation for you Shari i would like you to tell me your thoughts.....I use 5dimes for open parlays and the occasional future prop when bookmaker doesnt offer it. Now lets say im filling out my open parlay every Sunday at a buddies house watching football with friends. Now lets say i hit that open parlay over a month or so and it pays six figures. Now lets say one of the 5-6 guys maybe some i dont know well are there and have used 5dimes one time or another and maybe one of them went on a bender one time and made deposit lost a ton, decided he didnt want to pay and did a cha.rgeba.ck. Now what happens if we somehow get linked together because we are at the same house or using the same device. Do you think this scumbag is going to tell me he is not allowed to use 5dimes, i doubt it. Does that mean Tony can now create an excuse to not pay? Set the precendent now to get out of anything basically because you share a device.

I would say that it'd probably be pretty easy for you to sort that out because remember, sharing an IP is quite a bit different than sharing a device. We could share an IP at a coffee shop and not even see each other let alone know each other. That's why any decent company of any type and any size stopped relying solely on IPs 10+ years ago. They're still important but they're just one little crumb on the Oreo.

And also even at little SBR where it's just Betpoints and posting accounts, every single weekend - actually more like every second day - without fail, I'll receive a PM or email from a poster or several letting me know that they'll be with other posters to watch a game, travelling, whatever in case there's an alert on our system. Posters even let us know when they're just travelling interstate to avoid issues. Just like I did when I traveled to Vegas from Australia. Let all my books know as some don't accept US residents, some would wonder why I'm in Vegas and so on. So it's not like this is something new or whatever. When you're doing the right thing it's just not that complicated.

[HuskerExpat]

I'd guess the agent did get that info from 5Dimes Husker. SBR_Forum would not have posted what they did without good info.

Then why don't they post it in the official response? If the bet was placed from the same IP address and not one that is geographically distinct from account one, then the guy is proved to be a liar and I can understand the result of the investigation. But under the current explanation, they do not give any reason to disbelieve him and he did nothing wrong under the terms and conditions. That's my point.

[getlucky2win]

5d obv freerolled this guy and that isnt right. whats worse is sbr supporting it

[relaaxx]

can't believe this thread is going on and on with all this whining about 5dimes and or SBR.

if not the op his friend knows better.

you have to conform to the rules.

if you don't you know that there may be consequences

you can't piss people off who have your money

you don't want to draw attention by even coming close to bending rules

THEY HAVE YOUR MONEY - THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT

i was hoping he got paid and thought he would but if it was my business he would have only got his deposit back. because of what it seems like - maybe no rules were broke. maybe they were. i would not need proof if i felt he was up to something that would be enough for me to kick his ass out and not pay the bet. i would only want to deal with people i did not think were breaking my rules. there are way to many people that would steal a lollipop from an infant if they thought they would get away with it. over the years i've seen so many thieves come here complaining of being ripped off buy some sportsbook. and only a few that were ripped off(1st posters especially) when the facts came out. and every time SBR did great in explaining the circumstances. whether i agreed or not.has SBR made any mistakes in all these years. of course. big deal. they have always did more than good enough for me.

please enough already. lets move on to the next crazy bastard. it could be any one of us.

[Squared Box]

Is Daringly banned now?

[SBR Forum]

Is Daringly banned now?

It's standard board policy for ex-employees not to post, and in fact pretty common in business. We made an exception for daringly but he's worn his welcome out. Feel free to discuss this issue as much as you like, but do not pass along his messages.

[evo34]

It's standard board policy for ex-employees not to post, and in fact pretty common in business. We made an exception for daringly but he's worn his welcome out. Feel free to discuss this issue as much as you like, but do not pass along his messages.

What are you guys so afraid of?

[shaunovery]

Think we should have a sbr video of Mr loshack interviewing tony from 5d ,

As for this long winded thread as mentioned before who puts 5k in a book and don't bet it for a couple of weeks

[cloverfield]

can't believe this thread is going on and on with all this whining about 5dimes and or SBR.

A lot of these guys still posting are just insufferable people. They live for this kind of stuff.. For anyone with common sense it's pretty easy to see what the OP was doing. Tony is an easy target because he is strict and doesn't put up with shady business. I've seen some really black and white cases on here, and people still say the player is never wrong...books are evil. I've been using 5Dimes for 7+ years and never had an issue with Tony, even after winning. but then again I am just playing like normal and not having friends log in and deposit after being limited.

A player can be a shady as they want and a majority on here will still stick with them....probably because half of them do the same type of stuff. You're not dealing with the angels of the Earth on here. I get a huge laugh just going through the thread and trying to read the minds of half these posters.

[evo34]

A lot of these guys still posting are just insufferable people. They live for this kind of stuff.. For anyone with common sense it's pretty easy to see what the OP was doing. Tony is an easy target because he is strict and doesn't put up with shady business. I've seen some really black and white cases on here, and people still say the player is never wrong...books are evil. I've been using 5Dimes for 7+ years and never had an issue with Tony, even after winning. but then again I am just playing like normal and not having friends log in and deposit after being limited.

A player can be a shady as they want and a majority on here will still stick with them....probably because half of them do the same type of stuff. You're not dealing with the angels of the Earth on here. I get a huge laugh just going through the thread and trying to read the minds of half these posters.

I've been using 5D for 15 years with zero problems. It doesn't make what happened in this case any less outrageous.

[sweep]

Yikes, I hang out with other gamblers (even some from here from time to time) hope none of them place any wagers at a book that I am limited at as they are opening up to have their funds confiscated.

You're fired

[Hareeba!]

Ffs there really is only one pertinent issue here.

5D had ample time to restrict the account after acquiring the evidence that it was established on an existing user's device.

They didn't.

They accepted a bet on the new account.

The waited until after the bet had won to impose restrictions and cancel the larger part of the bet.

Nothing else is relevant. That is a clear case of freerolling and should not be tolerated.

SBR is gutless in not standing up for the OP to get paid in full.

[relaaxx]

hareeba you are one of the few posters i have listened to for years and i will continue too.. and it does seem 5d took a shot at him. it also seems to me the op and his friend fired the first shot.

that's why i side more with 5dimes and SBR.

[milwaukee mike]

A lot of these guys still posting are just insufferable people. They live for this kind of stuff.. For anyone with common sense it's pretty easy to see what the OP was doing. Tony is an easy target because he is strict and doesn't put up with shady business. I've seen some really black and white cases on here, and people still say the player is never wrong...books are evil. I've been using 5Dimes for 7+ years and never had an issue with Tony, even after winning. but then again I am just playing like normal and not having friends log in and deposit after being limited.

A player can be a shady as they want and a majority on here will still stick with them....probably because half of them do the same type of stuff. You're not dealing with the angels of the Earth on here. I get a huge laugh just going through the thread and trying to read the minds of half these posters.

yeah i'm always looking to scam people by taking a nfl side at -110 that was widely available. nobody has fully explained what benefit the guy got by betting 4800 at 5dimes instead of betting it at heritage or dsi (where he could've gotten a bonus), or in vegas.

5dimes' argument is that a guy that lives in vegas, decided to make a phony account and drive to LA just to place one $4800 wager that he could've placed in vegas?

and for those of you thinking the op is a total scammer, tony stealing from a thief on a valid bet (freerolling) is still stealing.

next thing you know when i make a bet at the bellagio, they are going to refuse to honor it because they found out i stole a candy bar once. shame on me and all is justifiable!

[milwaukee mike]

and my last point is this

my business, and any other business, should be judged not by how they treat their best customers - that's easy! they should be judged by how they treat their worst customers.

[trytrytry]

Is this bearding and against any sportsbook rule?

1. guy A has a successful fun time at 5dimes. eventually 5dimes sets a lower limit on him and also pays him in full on request.
2. guy A is a bit cocky and showing off to anyone who will listen that he won some decent money at a cool offshore book, they even limited him and paid him in full
3. Guy B a buddy of Guy A hearing this and hanging around with him (they are gamblers) gets interested, wow maybe I can try this out and get paid sounds cool, but how do I do it exactly what the hell is a 5dimes??
4. guy A says its pretty cool site, well known, A+ at something called SBR, and easy ill show you the web site here use my ipad so you can type in your real info, address, EMAIL, whatever they need and get an account, Ill show you the ropes. 5 dimes likes that you refer buddies word of mouth is something they appreciate.
5. Guy B hmm OK that was easy I have an account number now, this 5dimes web site looks pretty chill, and I know a bit about bit coins already so when I am ready and on my own computer Ill fund. Ill be patient and really try to hit a good NFL game as that is the sport I like to bet on. from my own computer ill place a wager.

6. Guy B a real human, with real identity. email address, phone etc does all of that. Happens to hit a winning NFL side


7. 5dimes not 100% sure on this account does look into this and finds a valid person and feels this is a real person at his own address, own IP address computer, and he did win a wager.

8. 5 dimes steals most of his profits on this wager. HUH??



Optional in the above situation are you serious in 5dimes being allowed to steal this valid funded and confirmed wager? Shari? anyone really think this is not tony stealing after taking a confirmed wager from a real post up player? SBr please be an advocate for the risk post up players take and get this poster his full winnings. would be a positive for 5dimes (they need a boost at the moment this is hurting them) as well to take care of customers and allow from valid post up players confirmed bets to stand.

[shaunovery]

T&c from a british bookie

CG is right - opening another account would be very bad decision. Even if the second person is real with correct details you still face a possible (I would say very possible) problems when try to withdraw your money. If Bet365 realize that both accounts are operated from same IP address and have similar bets then I see very low chance that you will be paid.

Also I don´t see the point to open multiple accounts at bookie you don´t like. Just move your money to different bookie.
As I can read in their T&C game from people from the same IP is NOT forbidden - people can share internet or can live together or could have dynamic IP and they definitely can not justify oficially closing account because of the same IP.
They can only limit 'one bonus for one household' - I am sure rule 'one account for one IP' is nowhere officially stated - in this case whilst closng account they must pay full balance back
Besides there are the ways of dealing with this - you build proxy or log through website which hides your IP for the operator - they have no chance to be sure something is fishy - they can only 'close account because closing account' - in this case they will pay the full balance back
Closing one account could not prevent punter from playing at this bookie - I personally play where I can see highest odds and when such a bookmaker limits my activity I am losing money in case of winning - I win less and this is why I will not stop my activity at the bookie despite their 'closings'
Thx

[edawg]

Bottom line is that things got personal between OP and 5dimes. After being limited the player can continue to bet at limit or withdraw balance. Player withdraws balance then decides to redeposit and circumvent limits on an NFL side where he could have probably got the same line and bigger limits elsewhere that makes it personal. 5dimes takes full bet on another account and after winning decides to only pay out the limit that makes it personal. Player should have cashed out and said thank you and 5dimes should pay the bet they booked and banned both accounts IMO instead player looses out on 3600 and 5dimes gets bad PR which probably cost them more than 3600 in the long run. When things get personal business often suffers.

[goduke]

Think we should have a sbr video of Mr loshack interviewing tony from 5d ,

As for this long winded thread as mentioned before who puts 5k in a book and don't bet it for a couple of weeks

He put 5k in once he got back home and then bet nfl a day later. Don't comment unless you read the thread clearly. People try to make judgements without clear info and because of it it makes 5dimes look like they are in the right and they really are not

[Grivas_Digeni]

What's a beard? And how do you distinguish between a beard and just another player who pays a handicapping service to obtain picks? Many people bet same things right after a known service makes a five-star (100 unit, game of the month) release, yes?

[shaunovery]

He put 5k in once he got back home and then bet nfl a day later. Don't comment unless you read the thread clearly. People try to make judgements without clear info and because of it it makes 5dimes look like they are in the right and they really are not

etc. Funded it to the tune of $4800 via BTC. After returning home a week or two later, decided to place my first and only bet, $4500. Bet accepted, and I won. Hooray!


Like I said he placed the bet after a week or two

I'm not saying 5d are correct because there not , 5d took the bet so should pay in full , just to avoid issues in future players should use there own ips

[goduke]

can't believe this thread is going on and on with all this whining about 5dimes and or SBR.

if not the op his friend knows better.

you have to conform to the rules.

if you don't you know that there may be consequences

you can't piss people off who have your money

you don't want to draw attention by even coming close to bending rules

THEY HAVE YOUR MONEY - THEY CAN DO WHAT THEY WANT

i was hoping he got paid and thought he would but if it was my business he would have only got his deposit back. because of what it seems like - maybe no rules were broke. maybe they were. i would not need proof if i felt he was up to something that would be enough for me to kick his ass out and not pay the bet. i would only want to deal with people i did not think were breaking my rules. there are way to many people that would steal a lollipop from an infant if they thought they would get away with it. over the years i've seen so many thieves come here complaining of being ripped off buy some sportsbook. and only a few that were ripped off(1st posters especially) when the facts came out. and every time SBR did great in explaining the circumstances. whether i agreed or not.has SBR made any mistakes in all these years. of course. big deal. they have always did more than good enough for me.

please enough already. lets move on to the next crazy bastard. it could be any one of us.

It's the context of the story that could be manipulated to innocent people too that's why it's stayed alive. What if you went to Vegas placed a wager and then they didn't honor it because you were seen chatting with a shark who might not be allowed to bet there and they decide you're a runner even if you weren't. don't just shrug off someone else's complaint because it hasn't happen to you because it could.... The scenario could happen to alot of posters. Many years back I got limited at bodog to 5 dollar bets because I won over 60k on them but some of my friends still signed up there because they liked the poker application. Now imagine if they had been guilty by association to me by hanging out with me? I just moved on to a book with better limits but bodog could of free rolled all of them for years if they wanted to. Who knows how far this type of excuse from Tony could go on. What if op didn't try to cashout at first and continued to bet for awhile?

[goduke]

etc. Funded it to the tune of $4800 via BTC. After returning home a week or two later, decided to place my first and only bet, $4500. Bet accepted, and I won. Hooray!


Like I said he placed the bet after a week or two

I'm not saying 5d are correct because there not , 5d took the bet so should pay in full , just to avoid issues in future players should use there own ips

If you read through the thread which you didn't he didn't deposit until after coming home. In the middle of the thread there's dates he provides for everything. You read the first post and based everything on that. Lazy

[goduke]

etc. Funded it to the tune of $4800 via BTC. After returning home a week or two later, decided to place my first and only bet, $4500. Bet accepted, and I won. Hooray!


Like I said he placed the bet after a week or two

I'm not saying 5d are correct because there not , 5d took the bet so should pay in full , just to avoid issues in future players should use there own ips

That would mean I have to be home everytime I want to wager. You might as well tell books to get rid of the mobile platform if this is the case. I travel for work, if I have to call them every other day to tell them that would be annoying

[HuskerExpat]

Here is the other thing that SBR should have looked at when they did their investigation: They should have looked at the bitcoin address where account one was paid out and then the address where account two paid 5dimes. Was it the same bitcoin address? Or did the account one bitcoin address pay to the account two bitcoin address?

That is just in addition to verifying the IP addresses where account two made the bet.

There are plenty of things that SBR could have done to either verify the OP's story or to totally discredit the OP and rule in 5Dimes favor. Instead, SBR apparently simply said it looks suspicious (which it obviously does) and rules against OP based solely upon suspicion and no proof of anything.

5Dimes clearly has the right to close the account based solely upon suspicion, but if suspicion is all they have, then they should also be obligated to honor the bet.

[Thunderground]

This story has been told so many times in so many ways, the only surprising part is that people still take the cheater serious. He just happened to be visiting a friend when he signed up at 5D and placed his only bet for the full amount he deposited (or close to it). How many red flags in once sentence do you people need to recognize the obvious? Tony has been in the business long enough to see straight through it.

[cloverfield]

This story has been told so many times in so many ways, the only surprising part is that people still take the cheater serious. He just happened to be visiting a friend when he signed up at 5D and placed his only bet for the full amount he deposited (or close to it). How many red flags in once sentence do you people need to recognize the obvious? Tony has been in the business long enough to see straight through it.

"Hey dude you're not going to believe this, I use this awesome Sportsbook called 5Dimes. I won so much that they limited me! I withdrew all my funds via Bitcoin but I still recommend them!!!!! You should definitely sign up man you can win so much!!!!"

"Oh yeah dude? ok can I use your iPad just to sign up for an account? I won't deposit until I get home in a week or so. I would just love to use your iPad to sign up since you recommend them, even though they limited you and you withdrew via Bitcoin."

Some time passes

"Oh yeah man thanks for recommending me! I deposited $4800 in Bitcoin since you withdrew tons of money via Bitcoin too. I think I'll wait a week and see if any flags go up, then when I think the coast is clear I'll place a wager dude"

[mpaschal34]

Someone help me with the definition of a sharp?

Complete opposite of JJGold.

[relaaxx]

It's the context of the story that could be manipulated to innocent people too that's why it's stayed alive. What if you went to Vegas placed a wager and then they didn't honor it because you were seen chatting with a shark who might not be allowed to bet there and they decide you're a runner even if you weren't. don't just shrug off someone else's complaint because it hasn't happen to you because it could.... The scenario could happen to alot of posters. Many years back I got limited at bodog to 5 dollar bets because I won over 60k on them but some of my friends still signed up there because they liked the poker application. Now imagine if they had been guilty by association to me by hanging out with me? I just moved on to a book with better limits but bodog could of free rolled all of them for years if they wanted to. Who knows how far this type of excuse from Tony could go on. What if op didn't try to cash out at first and continued to bet for awhile?

it could happen to anybody - that's why you have to be sure to play by all the rules - give them no excuses not to pay you - A takes out his money using bitcoin - B who uses the same ip address to join shortly later deposits using bitcoin - B waits two weeks bets just about everything on a game-- i see this i THINK A sent B his bitcoin money to deposit and bet so he can avoid limits. i would give B back only his deposit and throw them both out. the only detail that i would like to change it that 5dimes waited to see if the bet won or lost first. they would look better if they just cancelled the bet and tossed them both out. so 5dimes took a shot at a guy that took a shot at them first. i really have no problem with that at all

[GigaOuts]

People defending 5dimes saying he bet the same sport & deposit using same currency as a friend is lol.
NFL is too popular in america & there is no better option than bitcoin. What happen if he already have experience using cc to deposit on other site? deposit fee, international fee, cash advance fee, cash advance interest! What other choice is better than bitcoin that have minimum fee & less hassle?

Decision is made after the game end is so unethical, shame on 5dimes & SBR!

[libra2jay]

it could happen to anybody - that's why you have to be sure to play by all the rules - give them no excuses not to pay you - A takes out his money using bitcoin - B who uses the same ip address to join shortly later deposits using bitcoin - B waits two weeks bets just about everything on a game-- i see this i THINK A sent B his bitcoin money to deposit and bet so he can avoid limits. i would give B back only his deposit and throw them both out. the only detail that i would like to change it that 5dimes waited to see if the bet won or lost first. they would look better if they just cancelled the bet and tossed them both out. so 5dimes took a shot at a guy that took a shot at them first. i really have no problem with that at all

How the fokk is betting an NFL side at -110 on a valid spread in the most popular wagering sport in the USA "taking a shot"?

You guys amaze me with this garbage.

5Dimes stole from the player. The only better outcome for them was if his bet lost.

If they didn't want this action they should have rejected the bet when it was placed, not after it won.

jfc

[relaaxx]

it's not that it he definitely was taking a shot - but it does look like it is possible that he was taking a shot. and if i ran risk management that would be enough for me. i would not believe for a second all the circumstantial evidence was just a coincidence. he is so naive he knows nothing about 5dimes. he has to be told by his friend about how the site works but he bets over $4000 on his 1st bet. if he is a gambler he knows how this works - if he is not a gambler he does not lay almost his whole roll over $4000 on his 1st bet. looks like a duck - usually is a duck. this duck didn't get away with it. he is lucky it did not turn out even worse for him.

i am done with this thread. too many people here expect the sportsbook to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. if they did that everyone would be taking shots at them. i know i would. free easy money from a multi million dollar company. . sounds like christmas every day.