Problem with 5Dimes' Tony - robbed of $3600 in winnings

[winz]

cant believe this thread..guy wins a bet fair and square..doesnt past post....no bad line...and still gets robbed after the game is over???..seriously??

[Hareeba!]

This thread poses a real credibility issue for SBR

[shopp]

You won't hear from SBR again unless the ruling is changed. SBR know this ruling is stealing but Tony has them bought. You will NEVER get a fair impartial point of view from SBR on 5D matters. How anyone plays at this book after understanding this case is scary. If you win, you never know what bullshit 5D will say to stop you from getting paid. Why not just play at books that book a bet pay a bet. I know there's not much for us players but there are a few and 5D is not one of them. Don't buy into the A+ ruling based on my comments above.

[Limited]

E.g., "sharp money" is not used to describe someone picking off a bad line; it is used to describe action from people with skill in predicting an outcome or predicting (not following) a line move.

It is your personal opinion about what means to be a sharp or smart or whatever. For bookies a sharp player is someone who will make a profit in a long run. It doesn't really matter how will a bettor achieve that. Can be arber, can be trader, can be syndicate, pro gambler, high roller, someone with insider info, someone with better predictions abilities and more knowledge than bookies have, using advanced software and bots.....etc... All these bettors are sharp, because all will beat the bookie in a long run. They will all hit the soft lines, they all get the value and juice from bookies. They all represent the same threat to bookies and they are all unwanted by bookies. Now, if you call them sharp, smart, pro, .... up to you.

You need to be smart if you want to beat bookies with some kind of gambling system or by knowing more about sport than bookies do. But you also need to be smart if you want beat sharp bookies and exchanges in arbing or trading. Of course to arb or trade between Bwin and PIN lines you don't need special knowledge or skills, but try to arb or trade SBO vs. PIN or PIN vs. BF.

[GigaOuts]

I guess 5dimes is right in a sense since it is their business. They run the business what seem fit or fair in their point of view. But a new player risk $4500 to win $900 on a pick'em match??? .....ouch. it looks very very bad for 5dimes

5dimes slogan, 'invite friends to join the fun of betting your favor sport ......................
.
.
.
.
.so we can free-roll you.'

[trytrytry]

I do give SBR forum MODS credit some who clearly know this is stealing of Post up money by 5dimes

they left the Title alone, did not modify it (which is often done when the new poster has just garbage unfair stuff to say in a dispute).

good job SBR MOD or two keeping that true on the truth that 5dimes Robbed $3600 from a unique post up player..

[bluefish]

This thread poses a real credibility issue for SBR

A guy who signed up in 2006 and just now sees a credibility issue with SBR. That is priceless!

[Snowball]

So you're saying that if I tell all my buddies about 5dimes, and they go and register, and we all watch football at my house on Sundays, and we all log into 5dimes using my wifi and all of us place wagers/talk about wagers, you're saying that if I hit big, that Tony will keep my money?

WTF kind of business is this where you getting them customers can lead to future investigations?

No, Goat. Read Post 1. He opened the account at his buddy's place in Vegas
and on his buddy's iPhone. With 4800 in bitcoins.
So I can definitely see the 5d point of view.

[Goat Milk]

No, Goat. Read Post 1. He opened the account at his buddy's place in Vegas
and on his buddy's iPhone. With 4800 in bitcoins.
So I can definitely see the 5d point of view.

Thanks for answering that. That's a relief.

[winz]

there can never be any justification for any major book not to pay out a small 5k wager on NFL that was placed on time with a good line..just pay it and close the account if your are so scared of a player..i mean c'mon really..5DIMES is a joke..like they say in their terms when a player past posts on a wager.."its blatant theft"...this is as blatant a theft as i have ever witnessed..and for SBR to back 5DIMES..well then SBR is a joke as well and clearly just a shill for book..they obviously dont have the player's back...and any moron player who thinks 5DIMES has a point in any scenario in the universe is a complete idiot...This is the most disgusting thing i have ever read..as bad as getting mugged in the street, only the thieves have your money and are on another continent so you have no recourse...I cant justify playing at 5DIMES ever again personally...its really, really sad and a total and utter disgrace.

[evo34]

It is your personal opinion about what means to be a sharp or smart or whatever. For bookies a sharp player is someone who will make a profit in a long run. It doesn't really matter how will a bettor achieve that. Can be arber, can be trader, can be syndicate, pro gambler, high roller, someone with insider info, someone with better predictions abilities and more knowledge than bookies have, using advanced software and bots.....etc... All these bettors are sharp, because all will beat the bookie in a long run. They will all hit the soft lines, they all get the value and juice from bookies. They all represent the same threat to bookies and they are all unwanted by bookies. Now, if you call them sharp, smart, pro, .... up to you.

You need to be smart if you want to beat bookies with some kind of gambling system or by knowing more about sport than bookies do. But you also need to be smart if you want beat sharp bookies and exchanges in arbing or trading. Of course to arb or trade between Bwin and PIN lines you don't need special knowledge or skills, but try to arb or trade SBO vs. PIN or PIN vs. BF.

The key word is "long run." And no, the "threat" of an arber is nowhere near the same thing as threat of a sharp player.

[evo34]

there can never be any justification for any major book not to pay out a small 5k wager on NFL that was placed on time with a good line..just pay it and close the account if your are so scared of a player..i mean c'mon really..5DIMES is a joke..like they say in their terms when a player past posts on a wager.."its blatant theft"...this is as blatant a theft as i have ever witnessed..and for SBR to back 5DIMES..well then SBR is a joke as well and clearly just a shill for book..they obviously dont have the player's back...and any moron player who thinks 5DIMES has a point in any scenario in the universe is a complete idiot...This is the most disgusting thing i have ever read..as bad as getting mugged in the street, only the thieves have your money and are on another continent so you have no recourse...I cant justify playing at 5DIMES ever again personally...its really, really sad and a total and utter disgrace.

Not that it will make a huge difference, but people should remember this case the next time they vote for the top three books. A top three book does not do what 5 Dimes did.

[winz]

lol its crazy im so worked up over this.....i just cant believe this situation...i dont even know if i could go on if this happened to me personally...and its not the amount, its the principle...i would be plotting a flight to costa rica to track down someone and slit their throat or something...its just so insane....

[SBR Forum]

Hi guys,

There has been a lot of interest in this dispute and for good reason. Any time a sportsbook does not pay the full value of a balance it better have a good reason. That being said, I think our prior post on this could have been clearer, but it assumed most had read the full details already posted, and so we have edited it to give a clearer account of exactly what it means that account two was really a 'beard' of account one.

In summary: Account two was created from the same device account one had used to wager. 'Beards' are real human beings capable of sending ID, so the player's insistence to establish has identity does not trump this. This is not an incidental sharing of IP addresses at a buddy's house or a situation an average Joe needs to fear.

Let's review again the time-line:

• Account one was limited for wagering at the sportsbook, cashed out several thousand in bitcoin.
  
• Account two was created from that player's device to proceed to deposit a few thousand in bitcoin.

5Dimes' handling of this - to pay account two at the limit account one was just given - is more favorable to the player than players would find at any regulated sportsbook by any gambling commission in the world. This is really not disputable.

Now, what is in dispute is what 5Dimes could have done differently. Could 5Dimes have immediately closed account two and/or limited account two before the account placed a bet? Absolutely. But catching the account after one wager - most accounts are screened based on wagering at any sportsbook - is pretty active risk management. Had 5Dimes allowed the player to wager repeatedly and run up a balance all while being able to lose, that'd be another discussion and one in which 5D would have been asleep at the wheel at best. That's not what happened in this case.

[winz]

a major book cant pay out a few grand on NFL that was won fair and square on a good line and the bet wasnt past post or anything??..and you have the audacity to defend that...money was put up....line was good..bet wasnt past post..bet was booked...bet needs to be paid..case closed..what is this mickey mouse bullshitt about beards and what not...bet was within limits of NFL sides at their book...is this player the second coming of god that can never lose a bet??..i doubt it...im sure had he known he was going to get screwed on a legit wager he could have easily found another book to place it at via bitcoin...this is outrageous that the blame is being put on a player rather that a book that cant simply pay out a small $4500 wager because the management at the book seems to have carte blanche in doing whatever they feel like....WHAT A TOTAL DISGRACE!!..really makes me not want to play there anymore..they just cant be trusted...whats next the nightmare of simply deleting winning wagers and claiming they were never placed??..i had no idea a book can cancel a part of a wager after the game ended!>>..WOW!!..DISGUSTING!!

[shopp]

Any regulated book that booked the bet would have paid the bet. A beard on a 4500 NFL side??? He must be billy Walters long lost grandson... Lmfao....
Mickey Mouse book.

SBR community - Don't play at this book! This is theft!

[Jetsfan]

a major book cant pay out a few grand on NFL that was won fair and square on a good line and the bet wasnt past post or anything??..and you have the audacity to defend that...money was put up....line was good..bet wasnt past post..bet was booked...bet needs to be paid..case closed..what is this mickey mouse bullshitt about beards and what not...bet was within limits of NFL sides at their book...is this player the second coming of god that can never lose a bet??..i doubt it...im sure had he known he was going to get screwed on a legit wager he could have easily found another book to place it at via bitcoin...this is outrageous that the blame is being put on a player rather that a book that cant simply pay out a small $4500 wager because the management at the book seems to have carte blanche in doing whatever they feel like....WHAT A TOTAL DISGRACE!!..really makes me not want to play there anymore..they just cant be trusted...whats next the nightmare of simply deleting winning wagers and claiming they were never placed??..i had no idea a book can cancel a part of a wager after the game ended!>>..WOW!!..DISGUSTING!!

Eh, not so sure. Not enforcing their rules here is problematic.... Why would you think anyone would respect the rule in place and not simply laugh it off and say I can have some of my buddies sign up for me, and hell even use my computer to do it because the book will pay every dollar and ignore their own rules if I create a thread about it like that other dude? Then you could say the same about sign up bonuses. Not catching the guy after five seconds is kinda understandable. One bet in and he was caught. Downside to this topic is now angle shooters are going to be wiser about circumventing limits and covering tracks better.

[Hareeba!]

Hi guys,

There has been a lot of interest in this dispute and for good reason. Any time a sportsbook does not pay the full value of a balance it better have a good reason. That being said, I think our prior post on this could have been clearer, but it assumed most had read the full details already posted, and so we have edited it to give a clearer account of exactly what it means that account two was really a 'beard' of account one.

In summary: Account two was created from the same device account one had used to wager. 'Beards' are real human beings capable of sending ID, so the player's insistence to establish has identity does not trump this. This is not an incidental sharing of IP addresses at a buddy's house or a situation an average Joe needs to fear.

Let's review again the time-line:

• Account one was limited for wagering at the sportsbook, cashed out several thousand in bitcoin.
  
• Account two was created from that player's device to proceed to deposit a few thousand in bitcoin.

5Dimes' handling of this - to pay account two at the limit account one was just given - is more favorable to the player than players would find at any regulated sportsbook by any gambling commission in the world. This is really not disputable.

Now, what is in dispute is what 5Dimes could have done differently. Could 5Dimes have immediately closed account two and/or limited account two before the account placed a bet? Absolutely. But catching the account after one wager - most accounts are screened based on wagering at any sportsbook - is pretty active risk management. Had 5Dimes allowed the player to wager repeatedly and run up a balance all while being able to lose, that'd be another discussion and one in which 5D would have been asleep at the wheel at best. That's not what happened in this case.

They may well have reasonable reason to limit the player. No real argument there.
BUT the evidence they are relying on was in their possession long before the bet was placed and accepted.
It wasn't until AFTER the bet was won that 5D took action.
Would they have refunded the "over the limit" part of the wager had it lost?
Come on, who's kidding who here?
Freerolling just isn't acceptable under any circumstance.
Shame on SBR for not backing the player up on this issue.

[winz]

you keep using the term "caught"...wtf is all this crap about "caught"...no one knows the outcome of a game for sure...its a petty $4500 bet on an NFL game!..could have easily lost!..once the game has started and the bet has been accepted case closed...you can close the acct and not take future action if you are a mickey mouse outfit, but you cant rob a player of his winnings..you can bet a 100 grand a game at bookmaker, dsi, even 20 k at heritage and theres many more places to choose from..this is a disgrace pure and simple.

[edawg]

Player took a personal shot at 5dimes and 5dimes took a shot right back at the player.

[Optional]

Any regulated book that booked the bet would have paid the bet. A beard on a 4500 NFL side??? He must be billy Walters long lost grandson... Lmfao....
Mickey Mouse book.

SBR community - Don't play at this book! This is theft!

I look after a lot of the international disputes and I promise you that what SBR_Forum posted is 100% true. Maybe 15 or 20 percent of complaints are about multi accounting and signing up from the same device after the first account is limited is a slam dunk, no further discussion most places. Almost all places in fact.

Plenty of Euro books try to confiscate everything, most would at very least cancel all bets and refund the deposit.

Only the most upfront books would even talk about the situation and possibly pay at account 1 limit, or pay the bet and close the account.


You guys getting all outraged are just honest players that haven't thought about multi-accounting yourself or had to deal with this issue before.

And this guy could be as innocent as he says he is. But that isn't going to change how most books would deal with the situation. Both honest and dishonest players have good excuses for most things. And honestly, this one really isn't high up on the list of most plausible excuses I have heard.

[tomallen123]

Hi guys,
But catching the account after one wager - most accounts are screened based on wagering at any sportsbook - is pretty active risk management.

They must have noticed his bet before the game took place and could easily have cancelled it.
Pretty clear case of freerolling here.

[Limited]

The key word is "long run." And no, the "threat" of an arber is nowhere near the same thing as threat of a sharp player.

Your interpretation again. An arber is constantly betting on the most soft(the highest) bookies lines and doing it on long run. So it perfectly match to your key word, which is btw my definition of "sharp".

[winz]

so now you have to "explain yourself" to get paid after they confiscate winnings AFTER a game ends!!...LOL WTF??....you're supposed to be a big sports book, with millions in action, and you cant pay out a petty $4500 bet that was won fair and square with a good line!>>AMAZING BULLSHITT!!

[winz]

Dear 5DIMES..i placed a 5k wager on a game and it lost....but after it lost i realized that i was limiting myself to $500 per wager since that is my limit...so even though i payed you the full amount for the wager in advance, and the line was good and the game had not started, and you accepted the bet, i would like $4500 back....because as i said im limiting myself to only losing $500...thanks for your understanding.

[pjesnik24]

This is not the first time 5dimes stole money from players so I am not surprised SBR is defending them

[Fitz030808]

It's pretty cut and dry. The guy was free rolled. He loses, we don't have this thread. The thing that troubles me the most is the fact they're claiming he was a beard. A beard that bets $4,800 one time and tries to cash out? A beard that creates an account on his friends device and only bets and NFL side, at market price, two weeks after. We aren't talking about multiple bets allegedly circumventing their limits. A guy bet one time and is considered multi-accounting because of signing up on a friends device? 5dimes webpage even promotes bonuses to refer your friends. Look, I understand the site doesn't exist if it doesn't have advertisers. 5dimes are one that advertises. You have to keep your sources of revenue happy. But this was a poor ruling and SBR knows it.

[bocajuniorska]

5Dimes' handling of this - to pay account two at the limit account one was just given - is more favorable to the player than players would find at any regulated sportsbook by any gambling commission in the world. This is really not disputable.
.

Fake. I will give a pretty simple example from a very known bookie - bet365. Even though they're limiting players for stupid reasons / winning there they would NEVER do this bs. I've used accounts under the same IP after being limited on a previous account with them, and some time later I got limited on the second acc and ALL WINNINGS ( Yes I had winnings ) were PAID, there was no bs with getting winnings with the same limits as the previous account (yes it was the same person - me in a different identity BUT THIS DOESNT MATTER, ITS A DIFFERENT IDENTITY - not saying this guy did the same )

[chance]

I look after a lot of the international disputes and I promise you that what SBR_Forum posted is 100% true. Maybe 15 or 20 percent of complaints are about multi accounting and signing up from the same device after the first account is limited is a slam dunk, no further discussion most places. Almost all places in fact.

Plenty of Euro books try to confiscate everything, most would at very least cancel all bets and refund the deposit.

What a load of crap. Euro books pay in this situation nearly 100%. They close the accounts though.

SBR Sportsbook in this situation steal both balances. I know this to be fact!!!!

Only the most upfront books would even talk about the situation and possibly pay at account 1 limit, or pay the bet and close the account.


You guys getting all outraged are just honest players that haven't thought about multi-accounting yourself or had to deal with this issue before.

And this guy could be as innocent as he says he is. But that isn't going to change how most books would deal with the situation. Both honest and dishonest players have good excuses for most things. And honestly, this one really isn't high up on the list of most plausible excuses I have heard.

What a load of crap. Nearly 100% of credible Euro or Aussie books pay this customer the full amount. They may close both accounts though!!!

SBR Sportsbook would confiscate/steal both customers balance though. I know this to be fact!!!!

[trytrytry]

5DIMES motto "SWEAT the IPAD not the Game"

[HappyHounds]

A "beard" . OMG this would be so amusing if it wasn't theft.

[milwaukee mike]

I look after a lot of the international disputes and I promise you that what SBR_Forum posted is 100% true. Maybe 15 or 20 percent of complaints are about multi accounting and signing up from the same device after the first account is limited is a slam dunk, no further discussion most places. Almost all places in fact.

Plenty of Euro books try to confiscate everything, most would at very least cancel all bets and refund the deposit.

Only the most upfront books would even talk about the situation and possibly pay at account 1 limit, or pay the bet and close the account.


You guys getting all outraged are just honest players that haven't thought about multi-accounting yourself or had to deal with this issue before.

And this guy could be as innocent as he says he is. But that isn't going to change how most books would deal with the situation. Both honest and dishonest players have good excuses for most things. And honestly, this one really isn't high up on the list of most plausible excuses I have heard.

I have a hard time believing MOST books would confiscate winnings and that all gaming commissions would rule that way. are there published rulings on this somewhere?

[downsouth]

Yikes, I hang out with other gamblers (even some from here from time to time) hope none of them place any wagers at a book that I am limited at as they are opening up to have their funds confiscated.

[chance]

Yikes, I hang out with other gamblers (even some from here from time to time) hope none of them place any wagers at a book that I am limited at as they are opening up to have their funds confiscated.

Yes exactly.

[stevenash]

Edit by SBR: View official SBR response to this issue. The poster's entire, unedited complaint is posted below.


_____________________



Hello, I am a new poster to this forum, apologies in advance for any poor etiquette.

I notice that SBR has an A+ rating for 5Dimes, and I just wanted to share my experience with them. I opened an account on the recommendation of a buddy while visiting him in Vegas. Gave all my personal info etc. Funded it to the tune of $4800 via BTC. After returning home a week or two later, decided to place my first and only bet, $4500. Bet accepted, and I won. Hooray!

Two weeks later, went to place another bet, and was met with "wagering account suspended". Apparently needed to speak with Tony. Once I finally got him on chat, he started to berate me for being a cheat and a liar??!? Apparently, my friend, whose iPad I had used to visit 5Dimes site while in Vegas, had had his limits lowered after winning a bunch. Tony took the position that we were actually the same person??!?, so his limits *should have* applied to me also! Kept saying I could only have one account. I kept saying I DO ONLY HAVE ONE ACCOUNT. He didn't care, and refused to pay out the full win. "Honored" $900, kept $3600. I offered multiple ways of confirming that this was, in fact, my account - I had given him full, accurate info at sign-up, could verify with photo ID, anything. But I guess it's hard to convince a man of the truth if his livelihood depends on the opposite.

Despite my efforts to remain calm and try to find a solution, Tony became increasingly belligerent, eventually locking my account, giving me the run-around to even get my deposit back, and locking my buddy's account (who he now admitted existed! I guess consistency doesn't matter when there's money at stake). I have checked the terms of service, what Tony did was IMHO clearly wrong. My account, my action, my limits given to me by 5Dimes. Tony just "decided" to keep 80% of my win. Had I lost, I'm 100% certain he would have kept all of it.

I understand that 5Dimes has had issues like this in the past, but thought they had straightened up a bit, based on the ratings here etc. Guess not.

So I guess this is a warning - if you're considering becoming a 5Dimes customer, be 100% sure that whatever device/computer/IP address you're using or are ever going to use to set up/place wagers/check balances etc. has never ever been used by anyone else with a 5Dimes account, or you are at significant risk of having your winnings retroactively confiscated at the "discretion" of management.

For the SBR mods - happy to provide more details if it helps for the next on-site visit/review or whatever.

Thanks everyone for your patience if you've read this far! Sorry again for any noob issues.