Large Money Mia From Betfair Account

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  • wtf
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 08-22-08
    • 12983

    #211
    i think astons last post was very interesting in that this has happened before on numerous occasions. i am very glad he posted it, eventhough noyb thinks he is wasting time. i am a bf user and will never leave anything significant in there again.
    Comment
    • aston
      SBR MVP
      • 11-05-08
      • 1185

      #212
      Orthos I think my point has got across to the fourm with my English

      what clear points have I not addressed?

      and who am I NOT listening to?
      Comment
      • aston
        SBR MVP
        • 11-05-08
        • 1185

        #213
        wtf thank you perhaps you can mention that to Orthos (also wtf there are more links I have posted on the fourm you can read...very shocking things at betfair)

        Comment
        • Ortho
          SBR High Roller
          • 06-09-06
          • 175

          #214
          Originally posted by aston
          Orthos I think my point has got across to the fourm with my English

          what clear points have I not addressed?

          and who am I NOT listening to?
          This has been explained to you multiple times.

          The problem is that the points that you're making are points that don't matter. It doesn't matter whether you made the bets or not.

          What clear points you have not addressed are:

          --Betfair says bets made from your computer, your IP. Betfair lying? You have proof?

          --How can you prove that you did not do this? How can you prove that you didn't cook this up with Bob and Doug while you were moose hunting?

          --You will need to prove one of these things:
          -these bets could not have possibly come from you or anyone connected with you.
          -your credit card purchases were fraudulent.
          -betfair should not have accepted the bets.

          It doesn't matter whether you are telling the truth or not. If you can prove one of these things (and the credit card thing should be simple to prove, frankly. like the bank should already have credited your money back if you have talked to them, if there is proof), you will win, even if you're lying. If you can't, you will lose, even if you're telling the truth.

          This is not exact and these are probably not the only things you can argue, but the stuff that you're focusing on (your betting history, other people's past situations, whether everyone believes you or not, whether betfair are an honest company or not, whether or not you are obviously telling the truth, what newspapers you should tell your sad story to) is totally, totally useless to help you.

          But that's not the reason why you're being dumb. The reason why you're being dumb is that you're down $160k and you're trying to do it yourself and you're clearly out of your depth in this situation.
          Comment
          • increasedodds
            SBR Wise Guy
            • 01-20-06
            • 819

            #215
            I have no idea if the Poster's story is true or not.

            But I've always wondered why exchanges dont have more security.

            I have never used an exchange cause they worry me. In the past when I was betting online, I always had books turn off the poker room for this reason. Exchanges and poker rooms make it easy for money to be stolen and dumped...

            It is very easy to get someone's account info - wireless internet, hacking in, etc. There are machines made to steal credit card info, there are ways to get social security numbers, etc.

            I dont think every exchange needs top end security for every account, but I would advocate a place like Betfair or Matchbook up the security for accounts with more than $10,000 or $50,000 or whatever.

            Where I work we are able to log into our computers from anywhere in the world. In order to log in, I need my username, my password. I am then asked for a second pass word that is a number pin generated new each time on my cell phone and lasting for 60 seconds. To obtain this pin, I must log into my cell phone with one password and then obtain the pin with another password.

            Thus to get into my work computer, I need 3 passwords, and a pin that is only available on my phone so a hacker would need all 3 passwords and my phone in their hands.

            I'm sure this is not bullet proof either - someone could hold a gun to my head. Someone can probably hack the phone. But if my work can do this, why can't betfair or other exchanges for large accounts?

            Sean
            Comment
            • APK
              SBR High Roller
              • 11-23-06
              • 188

              #216
              Originally posted by Ortho

              --Betfair says bets made from your computer, your IP. Betfair lying? You have proof?
              Important point.
              Comment
              • aston
                SBR MVP
                • 11-05-08
                • 1185

                #217
                Ortho the bank says the charges are fraud are willing to give me back $15,000 but thats fine but it the other money thats gome missing from my account that I worry day and night about

                I have seeked the help from RCMP UK police and Interpol and filed complaints

                I will get the answers for my computer next week as Data as told me and I am sure that will help

                the newpapers I think its a excellent source for me to put my points to betfair and for exposure for my dispute

                as for me going public on this SBR fourm is the right course of action because if I go soft betfair will simply ignore me.. (over 3000 views and growing everday and betfair will take notice)

                Bettfair should not have accepted the bets because of my betting history Imo when they have blocked my account before
                Comment
                • aston
                  SBR MVP
                  • 11-05-08
                  • 1185

                  #218
                  Apk hopefully what Data says will verify that they were not made by my computer
                  Comment
                  • aston
                    SBR MVP
                    • 11-05-08
                    • 1185

                    #219
                    good point increasetheodds
                    Comment
                    • aston
                      SBR MVP
                      • 11-05-08
                      • 1185

                      #220
                      Apk I know manys here do not think this is valid but If I was going to scam Would I have made these bets from my computer and IP address ...how foolish would that be and than sign papers with the police...for heavens sake
                      Comment
                      • APK
                        SBR High Roller
                        • 11-23-06
                        • 188

                        #221
                        Originally posted by aston
                        Apk I know manys here do not think this is valid but If I was going to scam Would I have made these bets from my computer and IP address ...how foolish would that be and than sign papers with the police...for heavens sake
                        I'm neutral on this, got some money in a betfair account myself.
                        If Betfair can prove the bets were made from your computer (not just your IP) and if you can prove that you weren't at home at that time, there's a small chance Betfair will give it some more attention...
                        Comment
                        • aston
                          SBR MVP
                          • 11-05-08
                          • 1185

                          #222
                          TO APK AND OTHERS!well I am happy for this Gent but betfair still refused liability even with ip proof

                          MikeLyons
                          Listed Class


                          Joined: 19 Feb 2006
                          Posts: 43

                          Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: this happened to my friend last year who had 5k taken from his bank, Betfair refused liability although there was log ins from Russia 5 mins after he had logged off in the UK. Luckily, he contacted the bank and fraud police who traced the mongrels and he got his money back eventually!!

                          If you havent already told the bank i wud mention it to them as they are heavily coordinated with worldwide fraud police who can track down many transactions worldwide.

                          Good luck
                          Comment
                          • Ortho
                            SBR High Roller
                            • 06-09-06
                            • 175

                            #223
                            Originally posted by aston
                            Ortho the bank says the charges are fraud are willing to give me back $15,000
                            Good news.

                            I have seeked the help from RCMP UK police and Interpol and filed complaints
                            Meh. I don't think if the Met Police saw some guy in a stripy shirt hitting you over the head and taking away your money in a sack with a big £ on it that they would bother to investigate, god knows what the mounties are going to do for you, and I don't even think Interpol even have a consumer fraud division. But I'm sure they will put an APB out on "some guy that was in my house last thursday who lost all my money on a horse race in England."

                            I will get the answers for my computer next week as Data as told me and I am sure that will help
                            You should not be using that computer even now. You are changing its state with everything you do.

                            the newpapers I think its a excellent source for me to put my points to betfair and for exposure for my dispute

                            as for me going public on this SBR fourm is the right course of action because if I go soft betfair will simply ignore me.. (over 3000 views and growing everday and betfair will take notice)
                            Yes, this is the totally irrelevant stuff. You are not going to shame betfair into giving you $160,000. It doesn't matter if you do this or not. If you think a UK newspaper is going to print a story about an unsubstantiated claim by a canadian punter that someone stole his money on betfair by making bets on his own computer, then, well....you probably don't realise that it wouldn't matter if they did.

                            Bettfair should not have accepted the bets because of my betting history Imo when they have blocked my account before
                            Yes, this is totally and completely irrelevant unless you can show some proof that this is so. The only thing you've said is that you once made a bet that was too big and betfair shut you off until you talked to them then they turned you back on. That weakens your credibility, but it doesn't matter anyway.

                            MikeLyons
                            Listed Class


                            Joined: 19 Feb 2006
                            Posts: 43

                            Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: this happened to my friend last year who had 5k taken from his bank, Betfair refused liability although there was log ins from Russia 5 mins after he had logged off in the UK. Luckily, he contacted the bank and fraud police who traced the mongrels and he got his money back eventually!!

                            If you havent already told the bank i wud mention it to them as they are heavily coordinated with worldwide fraud police who can track down many transactions worldwide.

                            Good luck
                            Do you have any proof like this? If you do then why on earth are you going on and on about your betting patterns? If you don't, why can't you see that, even with this proof this guy still had an uphill fight and all your "betting patterns" talk is totally useless?

                            Apk I know manys here do not think this is valid but If I was going to scam Would I have made these bets from my computer and IP address ...how foolish would that be and than sign papers with the police...for heavens sake
                            Again, this is just more drama, drama, drama. None of that is going to matter. If I were this would I that, GMAFB. Who knows why anyone does what they do.

                            Originally posted by APK
                            If Betfair can prove the bets were made from your computer (not just your IP) and if you can prove that you weren't at home at that time, there's a small chance Betfair will give it some more attention...
                            I think I disagree. Why wouldn't they just say it was your girlfriend, dog, brother, whatever and that being demonstrably away from home was just a cover story? I think if the bets came from his computer he's cooked. I think he has to show the bets came from someplace he didn't have access to, but even then why wouldn't betfair just claim that he had a Russian buddy or whatever? It gets tough at that point, but certainly this:

                            Betfair: "These bets came from your computer",
                            aston: "I would never do that blah blah blah horseracing 0.5% per day blah blah newspapers mounties imo"
                            isn't going to get him far.
                            Last edited by Ortho; 11-09-08, 09:51 PM.
                            Comment
                            • aston
                              SBR MVP
                              • 11-05-08
                              • 1185

                              #224
                              ortho would betfair every admit that they made a mistake?
                              Comment
                              • aston
                                SBR MVP
                                • 11-05-08
                                • 1185

                                #225
                                I have posted many articles where they have
                                Comment
                                • Ortho
                                  SBR High Roller
                                  • 06-09-06
                                  • 175

                                  #226
                                  (head assplodes)
                                  Comment
                                  • englishmike
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 06-19-08
                                    • 5279

                                    #227
                                    Aston: I think your position is clear. I also think Ortho has made many valid points...we're going round in circles, you've stated your case.

                                    My advice would be to bump this thread when any new information comes to light or SBR relay discussions back to you they had with Betfair on your behalf. You're running the risk of flogging your dead horse just a little too much.

                                    Good luck.
                                    Comment
                                    • aston
                                      SBR MVP
                                      • 11-05-08
                                      • 1185

                                      #228
                                      English mike would you not use this fourm to max if it was your $161,000 at stake?
                                      Comment
                                      • englishmike
                                        SBR Hall of Famer
                                        • 06-19-08
                                        • 5279

                                        #229
                                        Originally posted by Ortho
                                        (head assplodes)
                                        x2
                                        Comment
                                        • aston
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 11-05-08
                                          • 1185

                                          #230
                                          x3
                                          Comment
                                          • aston
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 11-05-08
                                            • 1185

                                            #231
                                            just a update I have to file a complaint fraud charge with my credit card company to get back my $15,000 and they said it will take a few weeks
                                            Comment
                                            • aston
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 11-05-08
                                              • 1185

                                              #232
                                              MikeLyons
                                              Listed Class


                                              Joined: 19 Feb 2006
                                              Posts: 43

                                              Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 9:46 pm Post subject: this happened to my friend last year who had 5k taken from his bank, Betfair refused liability although there was log ins from Russia 5 mins after he had logged off in the UK. Luckily, he contacted the bank and fraud police who traced the mongrels and he got his money back eventually!!

                                              If you havent already told the bank i wud mention it to them as they are heavily coordinated with worldwide fraud police who can track down many transactions worldwide.

                                              Good luck


                                              *Ortho even with proof that betfair acknowleges wrong ip was used when would betfair ever be at fault?? in your eyes*
                                              Comment
                                              • Stumpage
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 09-21-05
                                                • 2906

                                                #233
                                                I don't think that I've ever before seen a thread that contains hundreds of posts but is essentially going absolutely nowhere from Minute 01...
                                                Comment
                                                • aston
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 11-05-08
                                                  • 1185

                                                  #234
                                                  I think its a very important thread and good points were made on both sides of the issue
                                                  Comment
                                                  • wtf
                                                    SBR Posting Legend
                                                    • 08-22-08
                                                    • 12983

                                                    #235
                                                    i find it bizarre that anyone would complain about this thread.

                                                    this guy might have got ripped off 161k by betfair, you dont know!

                                                    this is a gambling forum and i think this thread is important.

                                                    dont like, dont read, dont post.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • chance
                                                      SBR Wise Guy
                                                      • 06-16-08
                                                      • 682

                                                      #236
                                                      Most threads on these forums are completely useless for serious gamblers!!!

                                                      This is not one of those. Extremely significant information for me.

                                                      I have halved what I have in my betfair account and I will take other measures to try and protect myself from any fraud.
                                                      Comment
                                                      • Apologist
                                                        SBR Rookie
                                                        • 11-09-08
                                                        • 6

                                                        #237
                                                        Aston,

                                                        The credit card part is interesting, so simultaneously your Betfair account was hacked & strange bets placed and also, someone was trying to make a $15k charge to your card. If the card company has agreed its fraud (like you said), this clearly strengthens your case. Was there a file somewhere where you keep all your information in one place? (I keep it all in an Excel file, deleted now!)

                                                        Once again, I would urge you not to expect Betfair to block bets based on betting patterns, they are one of the best operators in the business (they have even won responsible operator of the year award twice) and if the IP is same and password is correct they cannot assume foulplay. May be you have a case with them sensing something from the credit card being blocked - but i dont know the details or sequence of how the system works in this case. If you google any sportsbook with payment problems, even the best sportsbook will have some problmes with some customers, so its better to focus on the hacker and not the incompetencies of betfair. They have a pathetic customer support, but they are not out to get your money.

                                                        If the card was blocked, its likely you were hacked and you definietly have a case. Best of luck, hope you get the 161k back.

                                                        Yes, important thread - we should all change our passwords at least once a month, amongst other safety measures
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Santo
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 09-08-05
                                                          • 2957

                                                          #238
                                                          The $15k was deposits from his Betfair accout (with which the credit card was registered)
                                                          Comment
                                                          • Scooter
                                                            SBR MVP
                                                            • 01-15-07
                                                            • 1159

                                                            #239
                                                            Originally posted by aston
                                                            Hello

                                                            WTf and inthehole as for credit card charges it was $15,000 and wtf ...
                                                            aston - I still don't understand what went on with your credit card.

                                                            Can you be more specific?

                                                            Did someone deposit 15k into Betfair using your credit card?

                                                            If not, what were the 15k in charges for?


                                                            How did you convince your credit card company so quickly to refund your money?
                                                            What proof or evidence did you offer them?
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Scooter
                                                              SBR MVP
                                                              • 01-15-07
                                                              • 1159

                                                              #240
                                                              Originally posted by Santo
                                                              The $15k was deposits from his Betfair accout (with which the credit card was registered)
                                                              Santo - I just went over his posts, but couldn't find that info.

                                                              Did I miss it in one of the posts here, or has he posted on another forum as well?
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Santo
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 09-08-05
                                                                • 2957

                                                                #241
                                                                It was my reading of the first post, both he and Betfair mention deposits in their communication, and the players speaks of charging them back as recovering funds.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • Scooter
                                                                  SBR MVP
                                                                  • 01-15-07
                                                                  • 1159

                                                                  #242
                                                                  Originally posted by Santo
                                                                  It was my reading of the first post, both he and Betfair mention deposits in their communication, and the players speaks of charging them back as recovering funds.
                                                                  Santo - thanks.


                                                                  aston - If 15k was charged from your credit card to Betfair (and then lost) what evidence did you present to your credit card company? You've stated that they're going to refund your money - why?

                                                                  In the absence of strong evidence, it's hard to understand why they would grant you a refund.
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • Stumpage
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 09-21-05
                                                                    • 2906

                                                                    #243
                                                                    Originally posted by wtf
                                                                    i find it bizarre that anyone would complain about this thread.

                                                                    this guy might have got ripped off 161k by betfair, you dont know!

                                                                    this is a gambling forum and i think this thread is important.

                                                                    dont like, dont read, dont post.

                                                                    Maybe so, but as English Mike, Ortho and others have pointed out, all the OP is doing is talking in circles...repeatedly. If this did indeed happen as he states, then I hope it works out for him but to continuously repeat himself over and over with little progress is doing nothing for him in my opinion, which was my point I was attempting to convey. If he wants to see possible progress, then I would suggest doing exactly what Data pointed out earlier in the thread, but that's just me.....
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • Stumpage
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 09-21-05
                                                                      • 2906

                                                                      #244
                                                                      Originally posted by chance
                                                                      Most threads on these forums are completely useless for serious gamblers!!!

                                                                      This is not one of those. Extremely significant information for me.

                                                                      I have halved what I have in my betfair account and I will take other measures to try and protect myself from any fraud.
                                                                      And I'm going to assume that you're joking.....Some guy appears out of the internet jungle with a decidedly foggy (at best) tale claiming to have had his life funds pillaged by a sportsbook, and you run for the hills? There's been no confirmation; no in depth report...Just some stranger's written text. Are you kidding me?

                                                                      I have funds, a lot of funds, in BetFair and several other sportsbooks. If I were go into a panic every time I read about a contentious issue about any of them from a complete stranger, then I would consider withdrawing from the world of online wagering, something I recommend you think seriously about.....
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • Santo
                                                                        SBR MVP
                                                                        • 09-08-05
                                                                        • 2957

                                                                        #245
                                                                        That said, with a book as easy to deposit too as Betfair, there's really no reason to keep more funds than you're going to use in a relatively short period there...
                                                                        Comment
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