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CS4 was told since he first screwed up that if he made an effort, leniency would be shown. He chose not to, and none was shown as a result. Really as simple as that.
Maybe I got the wrong impression of what you were describing...bit if she's hallucinating (seeing things that aren't there), there's quite a bit of science regarding that too, and all of it seems vastly more probable than "invisible dude in the sky is making her see things".
Apes definitely, rocks not so much...that's not what evolution claims. The correlation is undeniable for our evolution from apes, and considering evolution is proven constantly with simulations, saying it's unproven just means you're not up to speed on it. Have people lied in the name of science? Sure I suppose...but scientific findings stand on their repeatability and proof; if it's proven and repeatable, it's a fact. Compared to things that can't be proven such as God's miracles (which just happen to line up with a bunch of pre-existing mythology from several other cultures and isn't even original fiction), it's a piece of cake to believe in something that can be demonstrated instead of something that's just imagination.
Quite wrong there freezer...the christian god isn't the source of morals, nor do the words written for him cover all scenarios. On the other hand, the principle of reciprocity (do unto others as you'd want done to you/don't do what you don't want/etc) is a logical, rational conclusion reached by people who desire to coexist with minimal conflict. It's found in many cultures and philosophies, and was probably lifted from one of them by Christianity, as so much of its mythology was. Regardless of where it came from though, it has logical reasons to be adhered to, opposed to the bearded invisible dude saying "don't do this because it makes me angry".
We've spent most of the time in this thread saying that belief in being right doesn't make a person right lol...the inquisition thought it had the moral high ground too, as did various other Christians throughout history. Didn't make their crimes any less heinous, even when the bible didn't strictly forbid it.Comment -
We are all slaves ... Who's your master ? Mines Christ Jesus.. As for physical slaves, He let the Israelites be slaved in Egypt right ? He also made way through Moses to free them, so pending on circumstances and what He wants to happen for His reasoning these things happen in the first place, but my question stands, who's your master ?Comment -
Yes, purpose of loan was to prove he had changed or get rid of him. In the real world, there are repercussions for not paying your debts...here, all we can do is blacklist the guy. Completely his choice, and he chose to be buried.
It's not intuitive, but "facts" about people can be pulled up without divine inspiration or any real knowledge....if you're willing to ignore the times she's wrong, then your confirmation bias has convinced you of something that's simply not true. Again, if what your mother has is a legitimate thing, it would be provable, she could earn a lot of money simply by proving it and could do a lot of good with that money. The fact that nobody has been able to do so is pretty strong evidence that science is right, and biased anecdotes are not.
I guess you could say organic life arose from inorganic minerals at some point, but calling it evolution form 'rocks" is a gross confusion of the concept. It doesn't take millions of years; evolution is measured in generations, the duration of which is pretty short for many organisms. Experiments have seen predicted results in rather simple and easy to conduct experiments...forgive me freezer, but when you don't know about the basic concepts of evolution, your doubts are simply out of ignorance.
Your "proof" that god was here first consists of someone saying that he said so...that's not even remotely close to proof of anything, and when it clashes with the physical evidence available to us, it's not hard to figure out which one is reality and which one is made up
How convenient: everyone with good intentions doing bad things aren't being led by christ, but the good results are from christ...and of course, in all cases, being led by christ is characterized by no provable intervention or existence of christ, just a perceived label put on results in hindsight by people who want desperately to believe in the superstitious mythology of their ancestors
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It wasn't meant to be, I was proving a point, there were slaves from the beginning, where sin crept in.. The difference is choice, in " my slavery " I choose to let God guide me, my guiding light, so it's not slavery in that sense, but a choice to do Gods will... Now as for ones bought and sold, imagine being fed to lions, or thrown in ovens for the sake of Christ.. It's happened all through time, and talking about slaves, you are a slave, your not free, you have the illusion of freedom... More taxes and less rights, happening daily,
as for the loan, really none of my business, if trip were a christian man, I'd tell him to forget about it, but him being as he is, I ask for reasonable leniency ..on said interest... Problem?Comment -
Bold..Yes, purpose of loan was to prove he had changed or get rid of him. In the real world, there are repercussions for not paying your debts...here, all we can do is blacklist the guy. Completely his choice, and he chose to be buried.
Whatever...
It's not intuitive, but "facts" about people can be pulled up without divine inspiration or any real knowledge....if you're willing to ignore the times she's wrong, then your confirmation bias has convinced you of something that's simply not true. Again, if what your mother has is a legitimate thing, it would be provable, she could earn a lot of money simply by proving it and could do a lot of good with that money. The fact that nobody has been able to do so is pretty strong evidence that science is right, and biased anecdotes are not.
She doesn't want money for it, and probably won't go for some test monkey stuff either, I don't blame her, it is provable, of course the people she tells things to that no one would know would solidify proof
I guess you could say organic life arose from inorganic minerals at some point, but calling it evolution form 'rocks" is a gross confusion of the concept. It doesn't take millions of years; evolution is measured in generations, the duration of which is pretty short for many organisms. Experiments have seen predicted results in rather simple and easy to conduct experiments...forgive me freezer, but when you don't know about the basic concepts of evolution, your doubts are simply out of ignorance.
Organic life from inorganic minerals ... Interesting religion you have there tripper..
Your "proof" that god was here first consists of someone saying that he said so...that's not even remotely close to proof of anything, and when it clashes with the physical evidence available to us, it's not hard to figure out which one is reality and which one is made up
No, there's amulets, Dead Sea scrolls, the evidence of early Hebrews and Israelites, Jews, the Temple Mount Adam, Abraham, and all the archeology that's been done, it's fact, not he say she say... YAHWEH predates all else,
How convenient: everyone with good intentions doing bad things aren't being led by christ, but the good results are from christ...and of course, in all cases, being led by christ is characterized by no provable intervention or existence of christ, just a perceived label put on results in hindsight by people who want desperately to believe in the superstitious mythology of their ancestors
If one is well intended, then they have a good heart but accepting Christ is necessary, He is the epitome of good, so if one like good one will love Christ. Jesus died for sinners " bad " that they may find Him be washed in His blood, be forgiven, and live to do good through Christ, one can do good but it's nothing compared to what the Holy Spirit is capable of, the Holy Spirit will make one look crazy to nonchristians, like washing the feet of someone you know is going to betray you to death, it's a different kind of love tripper..
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You got it twisted, I do good because it's what's in my heart, not out of fear but out of love, it's a fruit of the Holy Spirit.
Galatians 5:22
. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.…Comment -
Being a test monkey not required, but surely you can understand why nobody is simply going to take another at their unproven word about that sort of thing, especially not when other more plausible answers exist?
Regarding organic life from inorganic minerals, are you aware we've been able to do that for quite some time, and are getting increasingly more efficient at it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gene_synthesis As I said, the things creationists laugh off as impossible without god have been done, and aren't even the cutting edge of science anymore.
Yes, there is evidence that people and cultures existed, and that their mythology sometimes matched up with verifiable history, sometimes (often) not. Nobody can prove god exists, how could they prove he existed before any given time?
Compassion is good, and can be examined and declared to be so without the need to invent a being to embody it. Likewise, there are rational reasons to behave altruistically (or with the appearance of altruism more often than not) besides "bearded dude in the sky said to do it or you're gonna burn". Anthropologically, this is the equivalent of using Santa Claus and the threat of no presents to scare children into doing the right thing, only to have the children refuse to ever believe Santa isn't real
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22Then said Elijah unto the people, I, even I only, remain a prophet of the LORD; but Baal's prophets are four hundred and fifty men. 23Let them therefore give us two bullocks; and let them choose one bullock for themselves, and cut it in pieces, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: and I will dress the other bullock, and lay it on wood, and put no fire under: 24And call ye on the name of your gods, and I will call on the name of the LORD: and the God that answereth by fire, let him be God. And all the people answered and said, It is well spoken.
25And Elijah said unto the prophets of Baal, Choose you one bullock for yourselves, and dress it first; for ye are many; and call on the name of your gods, but put no fire under. 26And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered. And they leaped upon the altar which was made.
27And it came to pass at noon, that Elijah mocked them, and said, Cry aloud: for he is a god; either he is talking, or he is pursuing, or he is in a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be awaked. 28And they cried aloud, and cut themselves after their manner with knives and lancets, till the blood gushed out upon them. 29And it came to pass, when midday was past, and they prophesied until the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that there was neither voice, nor any to answer, nor any that regarded.
30And Elijah said unto all the people, Come near unto me. And all the people came near unto him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that was broken down. 31And Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, unto whom the word of the LORD came, saying, Israel shall be thy name: 32And with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD: and he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two measures of seed. 33And he put the wood in order, and cut the bullock in pieces, and laid him on the wood, and said, Fill four barrels with water, and pour it on the burnt sacrifice, and on the wood.
34And he said, Do it the second time. And they did it the second time. And he said, Do it the third time. And they did it the third time. 35And the water ran round about the altar; and he filled the trench also with water.
39And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces: and they said, The LORD, he is the God; the LORD, he is the God.Comment -
In bold...Being a test monkey not required, but surely you can understand why nobody is simply going to take another at their unproven word about that sort of thing, especially not when other more plausible answers exist?
There are no other answers, you can't explain everything trip, especially not this...
Regarding organic life from inorganic minerals, are you aware we've been able to do that for quite some time, and are getting increasingly more efficient at it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_gene_synthesis As I said, the things creationists laugh off as impossible without god have been done, and aren't even the cutting edge of science anymore.
I mean literal rocks...when they do that test let me know... Or just tell me what's the furthest back they know of from ape, did we devolve from dinosaurs then evolve from ape..., that came from rock ?
Yes, there is evidence that people and cultures existed, and that their mythology sometimes matched up with verifiable history, sometimes (often) not. Nobody can prove god exists, how could they prove he existed before any given time?
The Bible is word for word history and truth, you can't say anything in it goes against what we know as history because it correlates 100%
Compassion is good, and can be examined and declared to be so without the need to invent a being to embody it. Likewise, there are rational reasons to behave altruistically (or with the appearance of altruism more often than not) besides "bearded dude in the sky said to do it or you're gonna burn". Anthropologically, this is the equivalent of using Santa Claus and the threat of no presents to scare children into doing the right thing, only to have the children refuse to ever believe Santa isn't real
Santa is a propagated lie, go look up " ole nick " ...tell me what you get... It's satanic in nature, down to the colors " red " red is the color of sin... When the devil is portrayed in pictures, what color is he ?
This stuff goes far and beyond most peoples thought process but your literally living in a matrix... Needing to be reborn..Comment -
Where does history mention and correlate a drunk 500-600 year old man storing polar bears, lions, penguins & parrots on a home made boat?The Bible is word for word history and truth, you can't say anything in it goes against what we know as history because it correlates 100%Comment -
One thing god could say for atheists is that there arent too many blowing each other up for science...Comment -
Pharisees.Comment -
Proverbs 18:2 - A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
Proverbs 18:7 - A fool's mouth [is] his destruction, and his lips [are] the snare of his soul.Comment -
Been explained freezer, you simply don't want to accept it and prefer to believe it's unprovable.
Evolution isn't claiming we evolved from literal rocks...again, you need to educate yourself on this stuff before making wild claims about it. The propaganda fed via religious organizations isn't usually accurate.
Bible is 100% truth, except for the parts that are unproven, or the parts we ignore
I don't currently believe in Santa, but it doesn't appear to be Satanic of origin unless you're willing to ignore a lot of evidence (which is kinda the M.O. for biblical apologists anyways I guess). Claiming red color scheme means it's Satanic??
You could say we're living in a Matrix of our own devising, snared by the belief that the conclusions we reach are accurate more often than they actually are. Until you're willing to accept that you're not right and seek verifiable proof for what you claim to know (beyond "some guy wrote an unproven fairy tale about it), you'll remain trapped there.Comment -
You havent explained any of it but keep saying it's been explained or proven... All of it is occultic, Halloween, Christmas and so fourth, you just don't want to dig up facts, down to the names of the days of the week, sat-turn-day, sun-day, moons-day... It's all there, go look it up for yourself, it's symbolic as well, why do you think people dress trees the way they do ?Been explained freezer, you simply don't want to accept it and prefer to believe it's unprovable.
Evolution isn't claiming we evolved from literal rocks...again, you need to educate yourself on this stuff before making wild claims about it. The propaganda fed via religious organizations isn't usually accurate.
Bible is 100% truth, except for the parts that are unproven, or the parts we ignore
I don't currently believe in Santa, but it doesn't appear to be Satanic of origin unless you're willing to ignore a lot of evidence (which is kinda the M.O. for biblical apologists anyways I guess). Claiming red color scheme means it's Satanic??
You could say we're living in a Matrix of our own devising, snared by the belief that the conclusions we reach are accurate more often than they actually are. Until you're willing to accept that you're not right and seek verifiable proof for what you claim to know (beyond "some guy wrote an unproven fairy tale about it), you'll remain trapped there.
Jerimiah 10:2
3For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.4They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.5They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.
these are pagan practices, been around along time tripper...
Ok forget about the rock for a second, where's the in between, show me this " evolution " happening today, you can't because it's a fib, a farce, there's no hairy ape man transforming today, there's man and there's ape period, nothing in between, and nothing evolving...
bible will never be unproven, these people aren't dummies tripper, there's good reason to start your journey on discovering God, tesla did, c.s. Lewis did, people that are pure genius believed and knew the bible to be true and fact, why can't you ?
my conclusions are accurate and the evidence of reality correlate with that, because some are blind to it doesn't make it untrue. So yes, your in a matrix of a devised distorted reality, setup with movie screens and actors, and pagan practices,.. age of deception, and people literally pay to have it... Wait until holograms and robots come out, be real interesting stuff coming ahead...Comment -
Every time you guys muddy it up Brain cleans it up, my man.Comment -
We've explained, you've simply dismissed by asserting it's not true...can't do anything for that freezer.
Uh, yes, many things are based on "pagan" concepts, who was disputing it? Do you think people using the days of the week or decorating Christmas trees is satanic instead of a relatively meaningless gesture?
So you're asking me to show you an example of human evolution happening right now, completely disregarding the concept that widespread changes via evolution happen over generations? I'm sorry freezer, but one of the reasons you're not seeing any proof of evolution is because you simply don't understand the basic concepts. You keep trying to argue against it by falsely believing it claims things and then claiming those things are false.
Bible will never be disproven to your standards perhaps, in that we can't find evidence to say something didn't happen, we can only use common sense and logic to realize it almost certainly didn't. However, you can't prove it either; claiming that ancient jews existed and did some stuff that correlates to the fictionalized accounts in the bible doesn't prove that the fictionalized parts are correct, any more than Harry Potter books mentioning real places makes it completely correct. Using your logic, I can say that plenty of smart people don't believe in god, or believe something different, and you can't disprove it...so clearly their beliefs are just as likely to be correct as yours?
Holograms aren't necessary...it's fun to read about predicted dystopias where advanced technology is used to control people and fool them, but the sad truth (as you and others have shown here) is that you don't need fancy tricks to control people; you only need to play on the human tendency to want to believe things instead of think critically and reason, and you can get them to believe all kinds of untruths and control them. History has surely shown us that; Christianity was used as the means of enslaving people for centuries and centuries, and the text of the bible supported it...can you point to any spot in history where the promotion of critical thinking and reason had similar results?
Heh, I'm sure it appears so to someone who is committed to similar beliefs and is unwilling or unable to look at the logical fallacies being committed when it's "cleaned up"...but you're inadvertently making our points for us
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In bold...We've explained, you've simply dismissed by asserting it's not true...can't do anything for that freezer.
Have not...hahaha, back and forth trip, I would refer folks to the Nye vs Ham debate, it's perspective.
Uh, yes, many things are based on "pagan" concepts, who was disputing it? Do you think people using the days of the week or decorating Christmas trees is satanic instead of a relatively meaningless gesture?
Meaningless... Meaningless! Are you serious ? You think they do this meaninglessly, your wrong tripper, they do it for a reason and on purpose, why I showed you the scripture in Jeremiah ...
So you're asking me to show you an example of human evolution happening right now, completely disregarding the concept that widespread changes via evolution happen over generations? I'm sorry freezer, but one of the reasons you're not seeing any proof of evolution is because you simply don't understand the basic concepts. You keep trying to argue against it by falsely believing it claims things and then claiming those things are false.
Well that's a problem for me, you can't give me some bogus story, and tell me millions of years, even so, there has to be some " apeman " in the process... We can't all look the same, and apes look the way they do, and see nothing in between and say millions of years is to blame.... Bogus... To me anyway..
Bible will never be disproven to your standards perhaps, in that we can't find evidence to say something didn't happen, we can only use common sense and logic to realize it almost certainly didn't. However, you can't prove it either; claiming that ancient jews existed and did some stuff that correlates to the fictionalized accounts in the bible doesn't prove that the fictionalized parts are correct, any more than Harry Potter books mentioning real places makes it completely correct. Using your logic, I can say that plenty of smart people don't believe in god, or believe something different, and you can't disprove it...so clearly their beliefs are just as likely to be correct as yours?
Bible, Gods Word, real, Jews real, the archeology done ...again real, the history real, all of it accounted for.. Harry potter never claimed to be real and nothing to take seriously, the Bible does make that claim, and people like us attest to that... It's real.
Holograms aren't necessary...it's fun to read about predicted dystopias where advanced technology is used to control people and fool them, but the sad truth (as you and others have shown here) is that you don't need fancy tricks to control people; you only need to play on the human tendency to want to believe things instead of think critically and reason, and you can get them to believe all kinds of untruths and control them. History has surely shown us that; Christianity was used as the means of enslaving people for centuries and centuries, and the text of the bible supported it...can you point to any spot in history where the promotion of critical thinking and reason had similar results?
There's been critical thinkers all through time, and a lot of them were Kabbalist ... You completely dismiss all of this and just go on, that's very naive, again, these people aren't fools trip, Christianity was founded on Christ and the scriptures were written via the Holy Spirit..and His Word will be here long after man, there's no other collection of Words like it and never will be, it's obvious that it's a Holy Spirit inspired, don't see how you can dismiss that.. The wisdom, knowledge, understanding, love, and peace that's in there is unmatched ... It's better then gold and should be treasured as such.
Heh, I'm sure it appears so to someone who is committed to similar beliefs and is unwilling or unable to look at the logical fallacies being committed when it's "cleaned up"...but you're inadvertently making our points for usComment -
Shrug, I get you don't want to accept the rational explanation...but that doesn't somehow make your unproven assumptions correct.
Yes, meaningless...there's nothing Satanic about decorating a christmas tree, using day of week etc when I do it. Maybe some other delusional people latch on to it and think it is, but it's definitely not cause-and-effect, any more than nutjobs do things in the name of your god
Yes, I accept it's "bogus" to you because you can't be bothered to determine the core concepts of evolution before you try to argue against it. You simply can't make up assumptions about how evolution works, try to claim it's bogus and have us somehow think the facts behind evolution are wrong as a result
Of the things you name, the Jews are definitely real, but prove nothing other than that they had mythology, same as the rest of the worlds cultures. As for archaeology...it's certainly real (the science, not whatever bogus claims to have found noahs or w/e you're probably talking about), and advances in the field were crucial from freeing science from the intellectually-crippling assumption that the earth was only thousands of years old. Fast forward through generations of great minds, and people are willing to discount all the facts to believe some fairy tales and go back into the dark ages, simply because they feel like they fit in somewhere
Yes, there have been many critical thinkers who didn't believe the facts that were in front of their noses...that doesn't change reality, where the facts are still in front of us for any to see and make decisions upon. Embracing ignorance because others before you did is still ignorance.
Nobody's accusing you of having figured everything out; we're simply saying that what you think you've figured out is incorrect, with overwhelming evidence compared to your none.Comment -
humans, on average, continue to grow taller and on average, are born with more intelligence...new species are found every year... irrefutable evolutionary facts that christians ignorantly overlook when crying about evolution... keep the blinders on , keep making illiterate excuses when prayers dont get answered and shitty things continue to happen to good people... if your god is supposed to protect, he wouldnt allow so many of his sheep to catch diseases or get fukked up one way or the other... its rational proof of no higher power
i have a good friend battling leukemia... he goes on social media every day begging for prayers and talking about god this and god that and how good god is to let him still be here...he might live another week... dumb mother fukker doesnt realize that if there was a god and god was really a protector, he would never have the disease in the first place...
in other words, god brings on the suffering and allows you to suffer and god just fixes you or sometimes doesnt... you might not be worthy or he might not care enough...who knows... the ideology is irrational and unrealistic and , unfortunately, is for the mentally impairedLast edited by raydog; 05-02-15, 04:57 PM.Comment -
Raising the question: "If a being works in ways so mysterious that the effect is the same as if he didn't exist at all, how can he be said to exist?"
While the mentally impaired might be technically true, it's a little harsher than reality I think: some people just want so desperately to have their life filled with meaning (instead of finding meaning for themselves) that they're willing to suspend all rational thought and embrace fiction. I wouldn't describe this as "mentally impaired", since confirmation bias and the inclination to believe easier to understand narratives is an integral part of human behavior. Ironically, those cognitive misfires that enable people to believe this stuff, and which are well explained and understood, tend to keep them from wanting to learn reality
It is what it is, and probably will continue in some form for as long as we're recognizable human (people not believing in God but believing there are differences in largely identical political parties comes to mind). Appropriately enough, these biases are largely responsible for the gambling industry being able to turn a profit too, so perhaps we don't want them to go away entirely anyways
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