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The word μουσεῖον (mouseíon/museum) was first used in 400 bc in Alexandria and it described what? The city district of the Muses and essentially the Library of Alexandria.Comment -
Nope, you are 100% wrong.
The word didn't exist before 400 bc. And it was just invented to describe the library of Alexandria and his surrounding city district. And that is a fact that is absolutely not deniable.
Today we may use the word for various things, from the Louvre to the Deutsches Museum.
But it was just invented to describe the library of Alexandria. Sorry.
This is about ethymology and history, and no twisting of words or denial denial denial is gonna help you with that. It is the one and only truth about this word museum.Comment -
You really are not able to understand it right?
A library was a museum.
A grave (of the poet Museio) was a museum.
A school was a museum.
You seriously don't understand what the word museum means. You could just google it and look up where it came from and what it described.
And NO! The Library was no a part of a museum. IT WAS A MUSEUM! Simple as that.
If you seriously are not able to look up where the word museum came from and what it described, this discussion is done and you have once and for all proven why all hope is lost with you.
You could just easily admit that you are wrong and save your face and we'll let it go. Yet you continue to deny it and even to look it up yourself. Glad everybody can see this here black on white forever now. I told you what the word "museum" describes. I told you where it came from and for what gazillion different things it is and was used. And you can look that up yourself. A museum is a place to study and/or for arts. Period. Forever period on this case.Comment -
Yep it was
I'll tell you again now: The library of Alexandria was a museum.
You are that dumb, you really think the use of a word now has to be the same as it was 2400 years ago.
Just because in your tiny little world today the word museum describes that you go into a building like the Louvre and watch paintings doesn't mean that this is the originial and essential use of the word. Again: I taught you in detail. There is no denying here.
Once again prove why you are the dumbest guy on the whole forum. Too dumb to google.
I let the other guys with a brain decide now. Maybe they are able to google shit.
I am out now, not gonna repeat myself over and over trying to teach the dumbest fukk around a thing or two. I might rather try to teach a pig how to speak. Might have better chances with that
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Nope it wasn't.Yep it was
I'll tell you again now: The library of Alexandria was a museum.
You are that dumb, you really think the use of a word now has to be the same as it was 2400 years ago.
Just because in your tiny little world today the word museum describes that you go into a building like the Louvre and watch paintings doesn't mean that this is the originial and essential use of the word. Again: I taught you in detail. There is no denying here.
Once again prove why you are the dumbest guy on the whole forum. Too dumb to google.
I let the other guys with a brain decide now. Maybe they are able to google shit.
I am out now, not gonna repeat myself over and over trying to teach the dumbest fukk around a thing or two. I might rather try to teach a pig how to speak. Might have better chances with thatComment -
Sure Kraken. Here it is.
1. Most evolutionists accept the big bang theory for the origins of the universe and of life here on earth, so my question to them is this....
How did a mixture of lifeless chemicals spontaneously organize themselves into the first living cell?Comment -
OK. Think of it like this....
One of your loved ones gets sick and close to dying.
You tell your friends and family to please pray for them.
They pray to God directly. We go to Mary and ask her to intercede for us.
Who do you think is in better position to have God's ear? You and your friends or the person God chose to give birth to His Son?Comment -
I ask friends and family to pray for me or for something because they are alive and here. The Bible speaks of this many times. But, and this is I know where Catholics and someone like myself have disagreement, I don't ask dead people to pray for me. This, in my opinion, isn't Biblical. I don't believe Mary or any Saints to be omniscient. Only God is. He being so, I don't feel he needs to hear it from anyone but me. He is ABLE to hear all. I almost feel like I'm questioning His omniscience if I'm asking someone to intercede on my behalf. Why is that necessary?Comment -
I understand this is Catholic teaching, but it's not found in the Bible. (not to my knowledge anyway)
In my opinion, and I know another difference here, Mary was a sinner. She spoke of Jesus as, "my savior." Someone who is sinless does not need a Savior.
If Catholics want to argue other teachings of the church and tradition as to why they believe what they do, I understand and accept that. I don't agree with it, based on scripture alone, but I'm not going to sit here and tell someone they are wrong or that I'm right. It's just what I believe from my own reading and research. Again, I live with a Catholic wife, so our core beliefs are the same, and all is good. Just having an open, friendly discussion here.
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Cant wait to see how he responds to this.I understand this is Catholic teaching, but it's not found in the Bible. (not to my knowledge anyway)
In my opinion, and I know another difference here, Mary was a sinner. She spoke of Jesus as, "my savior." Someone who is sinless does not need a Savior.
If Catholics want to argue other teachings of the church and tradition as to why they believe what they do, I understand and accept that. I don't agree with it, based on scripture alone, but I'm not going to sit here and tell someone they are wrong or that I'm right. It's just what I believe from my own reading and research. Again, I live with a Catholic wife, so our core beliefs are the same, and all is good. Just having an open, friendly discussion here.Comment -
I'm curious. I like to have these discussions with others. I'm not one of those holier than thou types, I have my own beliefs, and don't try to press them on others. I lurk here more than post, but when I see something that sparks my interest I enjoy discussing things, seeing other points of view.Comment -
The Bible does not record all the revealed Word of God. The Word of God in paradosis or tradition under the guidance of the Holy Spirit cannot contradict anything in the Bible, nor be absent from the constant faith of the believing Church. Some understanding of the truth of God passed on by the believing Church (paradosis, tradition) later defined as revealed truth concerns Mary, the mother of Jesus.I understand this is Catholic teaching, but it's not found in the Bible. (not to my knowledge anyway)
In my opinion, and I know another difference here, Mary was a sinner. She spoke of Jesus as, "my savior." Someone who is sinless does not need a Savior.
If Catholics want to argue other teachings of the church and tradition as to why they believe what they do, I understand and accept that. I don't agree with it, based on scripture alone, but I'm not going to sit here and tell someone they are wrong or that I'm right. It's just what I believe from my own reading and research. Again, I live with a Catholic wife, so our core beliefs are the same, and all is good. Just having an open, friendly discussion here.
Catholics believe, as did the Protestant Reformers, that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus. Catholics believe the truth of the Bible that the Redemption of Jesus freed all believers from the original sin of Adam and its consequence, death.On the basis of Bible truths from Genesis to Revelation, Catholics believe that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was the first to believe, and the first to reap both benefits from her Son's Redemption.
Mary's freedom from original sin is called her Immaculate Conception; her immediate entrance into Heaven at the completion of her life is called her Assumption.
I'd also like to point out something you said:
You injecting your personal feelings into a belief system isn't biblical in any sense.I don't feel he needs to hear it from anyone but me. He is ABLE to hear all.
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Well, that's where I guess we will differ. If some teachings or beliefs contradict what the Bible says, I don't adhere to those beliefs.
If I'd said "I believe" rather than I feel, would that fix it? Same deal. If God is omniscient, why should I pray to someone else? Me asking you to pray for me = you praying to God. You praying to Mary, asking her to intercede= Praying to someone other than God.Comment -
By the way Philly, kudos for starting the thread for debate. I've had many arguments over the years in regards to Evolution vs. Creation. It's like politics though, usually a waste of time arguing. People hold tight to what they believe, and when it gets heated and people can't think or speak in rational manners, I'm out. Life's too short.
I believe evolution is a real thing, but that it took a designer. God. In my opinion, there's no way these things just happened to come together and create life. If you really explore the human mind, the beauty and wonder of our world and universe for that matter, there's no way that happened by chance, without purpose. If it did, then what purpose do we have? I ask that of people who don't believe and they usually don't have an answer. If we're all here by chance, do you have a purpose?Comment -
Originally Posted by Bruce Norris 
If God is omniscient, why should I pray to someone else?
If God is omniscient, why should you even have to pray?
Muldoon, sorry, messed up on the quote button:
I look at prayer as fellowship, building my relationship with God. I can count how many times I've actually asked for something in prayer on one hand. Most of the time, it's thanks.
If you have a child, you know he/she loves you, right? Still want to hear it though? Yup.Comment -
No, if you said you "believe" rather than you feel it would not have made any difference. You would still be injecting your personal thoughts/feelings/beliefs whatever you want to call it into your supposed religion and that isn;t being biblical in any sense of the word.
Christianity is not a democracy where you get to voice an opinion and possibly vote on it. Doesn't work that way, pal.
And by by doing so, you most certainly are going against the Bible, thereby contradicting yourself.Comment -
Isn't all of this based on one's belief? I'm not following you here. You just told me the Catholic faith is based on other teachings not found in scripture, yet I'm going against the Bible?
And for a thread where you're continuing to ask others to answer a question, you're not answering mine. Why should I pray TO anyone other than God?Comment -
No, protestantism is based on one's belief/opinion/theories/conjectures etc. etc which is why you have over 1,000 different denominations, all of which are confused more than the next one.
The other teachings not found in the Bible, the other source, is called traditions. Traditions do not contradict the Biblical teachings.
As for prayer, no one is telling you that you can't pray to God. You most certainly can. You asked why we pray to Mary and I have given the answer.
You take your chances with praying to God directly. I'll take mine by imploring His mother to intercede on my behalf.Comment -
I respect your stance in regards to different denominations. What I am not grasping is how I'm taking my chances praying to an OMNISCIENT God, vs. asking for someone to intercede on my behalf. You believe Mary hears ALL millions of Catholic prayers? Is she omniscient as well?Comment -
HERESIES OF CATHOLIC CHURCH
OF ALL THE HUMAN TRADITIONS taught and practiced by the Roman Catholic Church, which are contrary to the Bible, the most ancient are the prayers for the dead and the sign of the Cross. Both began 300 years after Christ.
310
Wax Candles introduced in church 320
Veneration of angels and dead saints 375
The Mass, as a daily celebration, adopted 394
The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the use of the term, "Mother of God", as applied to her, originated in the Council of Ephesus 431
Priests began to dress differently from the laity 500
Extreme Unction 526
The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Gregory the Great 593
The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I. 600 years after Christ
The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (1st Corinthians 14:9).
600
The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church.
(Matthew 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18)
600
The Papacy is of pagan origin. The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas.
This he did to spite Bishop Ciriacus of Constantinople, who had justly excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory 1, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed title "pope."
Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Luke 22:24-26; Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18; 1st Corinthians 3:11).
Note: Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."
610
The kissing of the Pope's feet
It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9).
709
The Temporal power of the Popes
When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He himself refused worldly kingship. (Read Matthew 4:8-9; 20:25-26; John 18:38).
750
Worship of the cross, images and relics was authorized
This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused to pluck the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time.
Such practice is called simply IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severely condemned. (Read Exodus 20:4; 3:17; Deuteronomy 27:15; Psalm 115).
788
Holy Water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest, was authorized 850
The veneration of St. Joseph began 890
The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV 965
Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV
Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Romans 1:7; 1st Colossians 1:2).
995
Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed
Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. (Bull, or permit to eat meat), some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Read Matthew 15:10; 1st Corinthians 10:25; 1st Timothy 4:1-3).
998
The Mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory in the 11th century.
The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Read Hebrews 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14).
The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII
Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (Read 1st Timothy 3:2,5, and 12; Matthew 8:14-15).
1079
The Rosary, or prayer beads was introduced by Peter the Hermit, in the year 1090. Copied from Hindus and Mohammedans
The counting of prayers is a pagan practice and is expressly condemned by Christ. (Matthew 6:5-13).
1090
The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona in the year 1184. Jesus never taught the use of force to spread His religion 1184
The sale of Indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin.
Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic and it was the protest against this traffic that brought on the Protestant Reformation in the 16th century.
1190
The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III, in the year
By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during Mass. The Bible condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Read Luke 22:19-20; John 6:35; 1st Corinthians 11:26).
1215
Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council
The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Read Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; 1st John 1:8-9).
1215
The adoration of the wafer (Host), was decreed by Pope Honorius
So the Roman Church worships a God made by human hands. This is plain idolatry and absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Gospel. (Read John 4:24).
1220
The Bible forbidden to laymen and placed in the Index of forbidden books by the Council of Valencia
Jesus commanded that the Scriptures should be read by all. (John 5:39; 1st Timothy 3:15-17).
1229
The Scapular was invented by Simon Stock, and English monk
It is a piece of brown cloth, with the picture of the Virgin and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on naked skin. This is fetishism.
1287
The Roman Church forbade the cup to the laity, by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance
The Bible commands us to celebrate the Lord's Supper with unleavened bread and the fruit of the vine. (Read Matthew 26:27; 1st Corinthians 11:26-29).
1414
The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence
There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins. (Read 1st John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Romans 8:1).
1439
The doctrine of 7 Sacraments affirmed
The Bible says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper. (Read Matthew 28:19-20; 26:26-28).
1439
The Ave Maria, part of the last
It was completed 50 years afterward and finally approved by Pope Sixtus V, at the end of the 16th century.
1508
The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority with the Bible
By tradition is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus bitterly condemned them, for by teaching human tradition, they nullified the commandments of God. (Read Mark 7:7-13; Colossians 2:8; Revelation 22:18).
1545
The apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent
These books were not recognized as canonical by the Jewish Church. (See Revelation 22:8-9).
1546
The Creed of Pope Pius IV was imposed as the official creed 1560 years after Christ and the apostles
True Christians retain the Holy Scriptures as their creed. Hence their creed is 1500 years older than the creed of Roman Catholics. (Read Galatians 1:8).
1560
The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX
The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior. (Read Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47).
1834
In the year 1870 after Christ, Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility
This is a blasphemy and the sign of the apostasy and of the antichrist predicted by St. Paul. (Read 2nd Thessalonians 2:2-12; Revelation 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18).
Many Bible students see the number of the beast (Rev. 13:18), 666 in the Roman letters of the Pope's title: "VICARIVS FILII DEI." -- V-5, I-1; C-100, I-1; V-S, I-1; L-50, I-1; I-1; D-500, I-l — Total, 666.
1870
Pope Plus X, in the year 1907, condemned together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church
Pius IX had done the same thing in the Syllabus of 1864.
1907
In the year 1930 Pius XI, condemned the Public Schools 1930
In the year 1931 the same pope Pius XI, reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "the Mother of God"
This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in the year 431. This is a heresy contrary by Mary's own words. (Read Luke 1:46-49; John 2: l-5).
1931
In the year 1950 the last dogma was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII, the Assumption of the Virgin MaryComment -
Your understanding of the Bible is very poor.
It is a fact that without Mary’s divine motherhood, there is no incarnation of Jesus, who is God incarnate. The divine person of Jesus, being consubstantial with the Father, now having two natures, the divine and human, is not made manifest to the human race without the Blessed Virgin Mary.Comment -
I'm starting to believe you Catholics might be right.
I'm at least going to meet with the priest that was one of my professors and see if he can answer any of my questions. Ill be honest, I don't know much about Catholicism. Many Protestants argue against it without having much knowledge about it other than what they are told at their protestant church and that its bad. If you want to know the truth, you should at least look into it, and not making any promises but I'm open to what I may find.Comment -
by John MacArthur
One of the major, early catalysts in the Protestant Reformation was a book by Jan Hus, a Bohemian Christian who preceded Martin Luther by a full century. The book was De Ecclesia (The Church), and one of Hus’s most profound points was proclaimed in the title of his fourth chapter: “Christ the Only Head of the Church.”
Hus wrote, “Neither is the pope the head nor are the cardinals the whole body of the holy, universal, catholic [i.e., true] church. For Christ alone is the head of that church.” Pointing out that most church leaders in his era actually despised the lordship of Christ, Hus said, “To such a low pitch is the clergy come that they hate those who preach often and call Jesus Christ Lord.”
Hus’s candor cost him his life. He was declared a heretic and burned at the stake in 1415.
More than a hundred years later, and already at odds with the papal establishment, Martin Luther read De Ecclesia. After finishing the book, he wrote to a friend, “I have hitherto taught and held all the opinions of Jan Hus unawares; so did John Staupitz. In short, we are all Hussites without knowing it.”
As the head of the Roman Catholic Church, the pope is often called the “Holy Father” and the “Vicar of Christ”—names and roles that only apply to God. He claims the ability to speak ex cathedra, exercising Godlike infallibility to add to and augment Scripture (Revelation 22:18). He wields unbiblical, unholy authority over his followers, usurping the headship of Christ and perverting the work of the Holy Spirit.
The Reformers understood that and declared it with unashamed boldness. As Martin Luther wrote to a friend, “We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and real Antichrist. . . . Personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other obedience than that to Antichrist.”Comment -
Matthew 11:28-30 clearly says:
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.Comment
