The shuffle is set up to entertain and keep the weak around at ALL poker sites. Biggest thread on the subject is at cardschat which I believe is also the biggest thread anywhere. I did not realize that it happen more towards bubble and not at beginning nor in spurts. I have always paid attention to assorted runs/spurts but have not connected them. This write up will help my game no matter where it originated.
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No it happens all of the time in live games. The only valid point here is that it cannot be mathmatically random, but this is not true in any game. Collusion is the only "conspiracy" and you will not get away with it for very long especially at sites like pokerstars and fulltilt.
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As a winning online player, I can say the OP loses at poker. OP you say it's proven that they use different card shufflers aka algorithms on free poker. Prove it. Some idiot donk even made an e book that claims you should play terrible hands and the sites riggedness will make you win.
Ignore this dumb OP and read David Sklanskys books if you want to be a winning poker playerComment -
Pocket Aces lose to A-3 and pocket K's lose to Q-J in brick and mortar games all the time.
We see a shit load more bad beats online than in brick and mortar games because we see a shit load more hands per hour/day online than we see in brick and mortar games.Comment -
shit load of more hands does not effect that. its all about ratios. If you play 50 hands a hour on brick and mortar and you lose 1 then playing 200 hands a hour you would lose 4 at that rate. That also means you would win 4 times as much and that just don't happen. I am not saying its rigged, its just not randomComment -
calm down guys its just a discussionComment -
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The truth is out there
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If the river suck out didn't exist there would be no money in poker, only Laggish/Taggish good players would win, and it would eventually dried out the games, suck outs are part of the game and is what keeps the bad players coming back, if you want to delude yourself that you play well and justify your losses with theories thats Ok.
It is funny that posts like this are always from losing players,
no winning player that i know of claims that sites are rigged.
And let me define winning player:
positive bb/100 over a sample of at least 70K hands or more.
or positive ROI% in SNG/MTT over 10K tourneys at least.Comment -
There's no fucken way anything live is anything online. People start packing their bags when they have kq vs AA, online, I'm packing my bags when I have AA
they even start packing when the board is Kxx , online, its here we fucken go again.
jews run fucken poker stars, what the **** do you expectComment -
its simple, if online poker was trully random then it would be just a game for fun, not a fat ass world business!! and anotha important thing - how u think they received that licence?? in a basic of random?! dont think so
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if this isn't the dumbest poker thread on the internet it's awfully f'n closeComment -
Whether it's rigged or not, online poker won't ever be as profitable to the skilled player for a variety of reasons. People who claim to be online pro's are either liars or folks who squeak out a slight living from rakeback (we're talking about playing 20+ windows at the same time here).Comment -
Strange things happen, it's normal, it's poker!!Comment -
xi can make a living but sometimes seems like you do not make as much as you shouldComment -
As I think Roxxy noted in another re-posted article, I think good online players at the micro-small stake level should be able to augment their living with winnings/profits and rakeback.
Cheers.Comment -
Good post i assure in the SBR poker i lead -600 in bad beats last week was ridiculous.Comment -
YES.....this is so true and I have been seeing this for a good 2 years now. Very good and I believe to be true post about the "Action Flop" program installed by online poker games. This is no much of a secret amongst us professional live players but it is good you brought this out to the light. UB and Pokerstars have this program i know for sure.
Full Tilt is just a site for suckers who don't jack about poker anyhow....so they probably wouldn't even need this program considering everyone goes all in with garbage on that site anyhow.Comment -
Much more probable explanation:
1) more bad players (in free rolls, for example) = more bad beats.
2) Larger stack sizes relative to the blinds (e.g near the bubble) encourage more loose play/chance taking -> more bad beats
3) Players overestimate the likelyhood of the favorite winning on any single hand. A big favorite is rarely better than 80/20, yet that means 1/5 hands will be a bad beat. (Incidentally, this applies to sportsbetting as well, which is why the public bets the favorite most fo the time.)
4) (most importantly) Memory is selective. A bad beat is 10x more memorable than the 2-4 times the better hand holds up. A really bad beat is 100x more memorable than the 10-20 times the favorite wins.Comment -
First of all point #1 is negligible because deeper into tournaments (ie-the bubble) there are more and more good players left, not bad ones. So blind betting and all-in call station players generally are all but eliminated at this point not occurng more often as you state.
Secondly, if you really think that the better hand holds up at a ratio of 15 or 20:1 to a suck out bad beat hands; on online poker......then you obviously haven't played online poker enough. Try more like 5 or 6:1 ratio at best.Comment -
1) I meant more bad players, in general, not specifically on the bubble. I.E. to combat the donk plays are favored more in freeroll/play money game argument.
2) LOL, did you even read what I wrote??? I said 5:1 for normal bad beat situations, which is basically the worst case scenario for a draw (or almost any preflop allin). Most the bad beat complaints are for situations which aren't even this bad for the dog. These are normally the kind of situations that people complain endlessly about and how it proves poker is rigged, blah blah blah. These happen as they should - a lot.
By a "very bad beat" I meant a situation where a guy is dead to runners. These are more like ~5-10% for the dog typically. So, yeah that corresponds to something in the 1/15 range on average. They shouldn't (and don't) happen very often, but when they do they are extremely memorable. (Incidentally, I saw a guy hit 2 of these in 5 hands or so OFFLINE - guess that proves offline poker uses a rigged shuffle too. LOL.)
P.S. The basic premise of a different "shuffle algorithm" causing different kinds of hand to hit more often is ridiculous. To cause "action flops" to hit more often, they would have to determine the flop based on the hands that stayed in AFTER the betting took place. Sure they is possible, but if it was being done (it isn't) it wouldn't be a "different algorithm" being used.
However, believe whatever you want.
I tend to blame external factors when I lose too - much easier on the psyche that way.
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One more thing, don't you think its a little suspicious that the person who "proved" the game is rigged (the person to OP copy and pasted from) is trying to sell an ebook teaching you to "exploit" these "secrets" when they could be taking their overwhelming evidence to the authorities (or at least a reporter) so as to stop this horrible fraud.Comment -
Yeah its very random. i can predict the future.....
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Kh 8d]
Hero said, "another ****en suck out"
Hero: raises and is all-in
feliuco: calls
feliuco: shows [Qd 8c]
Hero said, "q"
Hero said, "q"
Hero said, "q"
Hero said, "q"
Hero said, "q"
*** FLOP *** [9c 6h 8s]
*** TURN *** [9c 6h 8s] [Qc]
*** RIVER *** [9c 6h 8s Qc] [Ac]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
feliuco: shows [Qd 8c] (two pair, Queens and Eights)
Hero: shows [Kh 8d] (a pair of Eights)
Hero said, "**** you"
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Kd 8d]
Hero: raises 1471 to 2071 and is all-in
Hero said, "Bigger stack will call and suck out"
kkeekkeee: calls 1771
kkeekkeee: shows [8h Ts]
Hero said, "ten"
Hero said, "ten"
Hero said, "ten"
*** FLOP *** [3h 9s 7s]
*** TURN *** [3h 9s 7s] [Tc]
Hero said, "go ****en die"
*** RIVER *** [3h 9s 7s Tc] [4d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
kkeekkeee: shows [8h Ts] (a pair of Tens)
Hero: shows [Kd 8d] (high card King)
I can post hundreds of these in a row, its pointless. If you say, even a blind squirrel can find a nut, well I would bet anyone that I'd get more than 30% right.
Glad I barely play anymore with all the sports on right now to bet.
Suck outs are one thing but predictable BS is another.Comment -
Man you have some anger issues to work out.
I also I think, if you are open to it, the situations you note should also have more detail as far as raises/blinds/stacks/positions because depending on the this info, sometimes it is still correct to play the hands you note your opponents are.
Cheers.Comment -
one of the best posts on this site in a long time thx
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some ppl have become a little jaded and blame it all on being rigged .dont go in with crap and u mont lose with crap,and rigged or not it still takes skill and luck combined to come out on topComment -
its an action flop because it creates so much interest after the flop, and then 3-4 players keep calling any bettors, the pot then builds up beacause everyone has hit big and then by the river someone has the NUTS and by then there rake is bigger than what it would be if only 1 or 2 players hit the flop.......Comment -
I'm telling you, I can do it all day long. I turn the game on for 5 minutes, every minute its a bad beat.
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero [Kh Kc]
Hero: raises and is all-in
Titislb: calls
Titislb: shows [As 5c]
*** FLOP *** [6d 3s Js]
Hero said, "a"
Hero said, "a"
Hero said, "a"
Hero said, "a"
Hero said, "a"
Hero said, "a"
Hero said, "a"
Hero said, "a"
*** TURN *** [6d 3s Js] [Ac]
*** RIVER *** [6d 3s Js Ac] [5s]
Hero said, "I hope all you spics get fucken aids and die"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Titislb: shows [As 5c] (two pair, Aces and Fives)
Hero: shows [Kh Kc] (a pair of Kings)Comment
