Best player of all time King James or The Black Mamba

**DOM-Ganador** · 01-30-20, 07:14 PM

Originally posted by Chi_archie

See another complete snub for Moses Malone and his 3 MVPs

No snub Chi. I would listen to an argument for Moses. I listed 11, so I guess he could bump Chuck or Doc, but to me, that's where it would end.

**d2bets** · 01-30-20, 08:12 PM

Originally posted by JIBBBY

All star appearances Kobe wins over Lebron..

Defensive player of the year awards also..

Kobe Bryant has made a total of 12 All-Defensive teams, more than any other guard. Ben Wallace, who has won four NBA Defensive Player of the Year Awards in five years, has been selected into the All-Defensive first team five times in six selections.

But Lebron is also far from done.

**deadphish** · 01-30-20, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by deadphish

my fave NBA moment of all time. i remember watching it live & freaking out.
i think there is only 1 other moment that outshines it...care to guess?

too obvious...still thinking....or dont care?

**JIBBBY** · 01-30-20, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by d2bets

But Lebron is also far from done.

True but the Kobe vs Lebron argument is right now..

Lebron could have a career stalling injury soon you never know? Hell he could blow out Achilles just like Kobe did as a Laker.. That would set him back a few years like it did with Kevin Durant now in the stat box numbers..

You get up in age injuries start happening just ask Steve Nash and Karl Mallone when both were wearing a Laker uniform..

**shadymcgrady** · 01-30-20, 09:56 PM

Surprised that nearly no one does their homework. In light of Kobe's tragedy you'd think more would actually read or listen to his interviews and quotes. Sadly no one in here has conveyed his views, only their own.

Kobe valued championships above all else, that's not to say he didn't care about individual accolades bc he did but never at the expense of a title. Rings was all he cared about winning not MVPs or allstar appearances etc.

But he would also be the very first to admit that just bc titles were his goal doesn't mean it's the end all be all universal measuring stick for player greatness. A title doesn't diminish how great of a basketball player a legend was and he's even said as much in multiple interviews. Sure a guy like harden may look like a clown next to Kobe based on personal goals but that doesn't diminish hardens skills as a player only as a competitor.

The same argument goes for his desire to stay with one team his entire career. Just bc it was a priority for him doesn't make him any better or worse than say a LeBron or Durant or whoever that chose to do things differently.

Greatness is greatness. Kobe achieved his goals of winning chips and being able to sit at the lunch table with Michael and magic. Literally his words

**stevenash** · 01-30-20, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by deadphish

too obvious...still thinking....or dont care?

Too obvious.
Jordans shot over Ehlo.

**Bostongambler** · 01-31-20, 12:02 AM

Michael Jordan

Thread Closed!!!

**gojetsgomoxies** · 01-31-20, 12:19 AM

i saw kobe 8th or 9th in bill simmons greatest 100 ever....... it was bill's greatness pyramid, but maybe from 2010. not clear if the site was updating some statistical measure to bring it up to date

statistically on basic offensive efficiency or wins above replacement, that is way way too high a ranking...... kobe was nine-time all-defensive first team. and 3x second team all defensive... and i would almost guarantee that isn't fully reflected in WAR estimates.

W/48 and even total WAR (kobe had very long career) are not that impressive... but again, maybe defense isn't rightly reflected.

there are many guys below kobe i might think of taking over him......

it seems like the top 6 all-time (again long retired) are locked in.... jordan, russell, kareem, magic, bird, wilt...... so kobe makes starting lineup if you don't have russell/kareem out there together. fyi, tim duncan is #7

**gojetsgomoxies** · 01-31-20, 12:20 AM

Originally posted by JIBBBY

True but the Kobe vs Lebron argument is right now..

Lebron could have a career stalling injury soon you never know? Hell he could blow out Achilles just like Kobe did as a Laker.. That would set him back a few years like it did with Kevin Durant now in the stat box numbers..

You get up in age injuries start happening just ask Steve Nash and Karl Mallone when both were wearing a Laker uniform..

lebron >>> kobe today, right now

**deadphish** · 01-31-20, 12:26 AM

Originally posted by stevenash

Too obvious.
Jordans shot over Ehlo.

great moment...but no.
again, it outshines "Bird steals the ball" IMO.

**blankoblanco** · 01-31-20, 12:31 AM

Okay, dudes, everyone with a brain knows it's MJ over both of these guys, you don't have to post it for the 30th time. Just address the actually interesting debate which is your own take on Kobe vs Bron

Nobody cares that you're the 20th person to say it's Jordan. Yeah, we literally all fking know. Make your case for Kobe vs Lebron

**deadphish** · 01-31-20, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by blankoblanco

Okay, dudes, everyone with a brain knows it's MJ over both of these guys, you don't have to post it for the 30th time. Just address the actually interesting debate which is your own take on Kobe vs Bron

Nobody cares that you're the 20th person to say it's Jordan. Yeah, we literally all fking know. Make your case for Kobe vs Lebron

coin flip IMO.
neither has had a "playoff moment" that compares to a certain somebody that outshines the Bird steal.

**THE_RUDESTER** · 01-31-20, 01:20 AM

Kobe is Jordan 2.0 James plays a different style of ball compared to the 2 GOATS.

**asiagambler** · 01-31-20, 01:52 AM

Originally posted by deadphish

coin flip IMO.
neither has had a "playoff moment" that compares to a certain somebody that outshines the Bird steal.

Lebron's block ?

**19th Hole** · 02-01-20, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by Booya711

Let’s all chip in and get big bear a one way ticket to China and then one helicopter ride when there....lets cover all bases

~~~~~~
Only if the flight to Wuhan is aboard a Boeing 737 MAX!!

**d2bets** · 02-01-20, 06:57 PM

Originally posted by THE_RUDESTER

Kobe is Jordan 2.0 James plays a different style of ball compared to the 2 GOATS.

Kobe was a Poor Man's Jordan. Kobe had the attitude and drive, just not the talent and skill. Kobe's shooting percentage in his best season was worse than Jordan's shooting percentage in his worst. And of course it wasn't for lack of volume on Jordan's part.

**JIBBBY** · 02-01-20, 07:43 PM

Originally posted by Bostongambler

Michael Jordan

Thread Closed!!!

Agreed...

**byronbb** · 02-01-20, 07:46 PM

goat no but kobe was a better clutch player, kobe killed so many of my bets with dagger 3s from out of no where.

**Big Bear** · 02-01-20, 08:44 PM

Michael Jordan’s legacy is tainted IMO b/c he has been such a disaster as an owner

**Bostongambler** · 02-01-20, 09:20 PM

Michael Jordan

Thread Closed!

**JIBBBY** · 02-01-20, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by Big Bear

Michael Jordan’s legacy is tainted IMO b/c he has been such a disaster as an owner

Same could be said as Magic Johnson as a coach then.

**cincinnatikid513** · 02-01-20, 10:04 PM

**d2bets** · 02-01-20, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Big Bear

Michael Jordan’s legacy is tainted IMO b/c he has been such a disaster as an owner

Nonsense. Two different animals. Is his legacy also tainted cuz he sucked at baseball? And golf? What he did on the court speaks for itself and can't be erased.

**d2bets** · 02-01-20, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by JIBBBY

Same could be said as Magic Johnson as a coach then.

Right, and it's silly. Two different animals.

**stevenash** · 02-01-20, 10:39 PM

Originally posted by JIBBBY

Same could be said as Magic Johnson as a coach then.

Same can be said for the entire Clipper team.
Oh wait, they never won one.

**Swaggy P** · 02-01-20, 10:47 PM

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Allen Iverson

Top 3 players of all time.

**Bostongambler** · 02-01-20, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by Swaggy P

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. Allen Iverson

Top 3 players of all time.

WTF??? Iverson?

Good luck with all of that.

**Bostongambler** · 02-01-20, 10:51 PM

Michael Jordan.

Thread Closed!!!

**Chief Wahoo** · 02-01-20, 10:54 PM

Is list serious? Isiah way better than Hakeem, Barkley and Doc.

Originally posted by DOM-Ganador

If you take the greats from the bygone era (pre 1978) out of the equasion, my top 3 are embedded in granite.
1) MJ
2) Magic
3) Kareem

4 through 10....any of these guys have a legit argument:
Bird, Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem, Barkley, Doc, Shaq, Duncan...…

I am a Boston guy, been around for all these players. Obviously love Bird to death, but Magic was simply better.
Shaq only guy on the list to me who actually could have given MJ a battle at the top if he had more mental toughness and less shenanigans.

**stevenash** · 02-01-20, 11:12 PM

Top five in my lifetime (this does not include guys like Russell and Chamberlain etc)

MJ
Bird
LeBron
Kobe
(I have six that I could insert here)

**deadphish** · 02-01-20, 11:40 PM

Originally posted by deadphish

Originally Posted by 4sees
Bird stealing Isiah's inbound and getting it to DJ with time expiring,

my fave NBA moment of all time. i remember watching it live & freaking out.
i think there is only 1 other moment that outshines it...care to guess?

only a few guesses...nobody got it.
Miller Time at MSG has to be the most unreal/shocking comeback in NBA playoffs history...

**DoubleR90** · 02-01-20, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by Big Bear

Lebron James or Kobe Bryant

who is the best basketball player of all time?

It terrifies me that we now have a generation of adults that clearly don't comprehend how ridiculously dominant Michael Jordan was. Shame on you for this thread

**JIBBBY** · 02-02-20, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Bostongambler

WTF??? Iverson?

Good luck with all of that.

Michael Vick would say the same about Iverson being one of the best ever. The little guy was tough.

If either Iverson or Vick put in the work that Jordan or Kobe put in just maybe both would have been top 5 in each profession..

Iverson was all heart but destroyed his body and never really put in the work.. Michael Vick in the NFL the same and he went to jail for pit bull fighting...

Micheal Vick 30 for 30 just came out Part One.. Solid check..

**stevenash** · 02-02-20, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by DoubleR90

It terrifies me that we now have a generation of adults that clearly don't comprehend how ridiculously dominant Michael Jordan was. Shame on you for this thread

Bear can’t help himself.
He’s an idiot.