NHL Model - 2014

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  • livan33
    SBR High Roller
    • 12-04-12
    • 112

    #106
    Small world Rich, I'm from Ontario as well. I follow edges at PLP and play Proline daily. I've never gotten into the Props because my impression is that any good edges are LLE pretty early in the morning. Correct me if I'm wrong, as if I am I may look into props more closely.

    You're not intruding at all, and have actually brought up a good point on the defencemen. I hadn't considered that, but you're right, teams that have more offense from their backend may have overinflated Corsi/Fenwick. Not sure exactly what to do about that, but I'll give it some thought.

    I won't get into every detail of my model, as it will be a long post just giving the basics.

    The first part is calculating an expected number of goals for each team. There are two factors which contribute to the Expected Goals. I consider goals at even strength and goals on the power play. I have assumed that short-handed goals are immaterial enough that they can be ignored. Not sure if this is a valid assumption, but it's what I've done thus far.

    Even strength goals are driven by Fenwick. In this post I won't get into exactly how I calculate this portion, but it's basically a combination of Fenwick Close and Fenwick Home/Road, depending on which team is at home and on the road. For the Colorado-Winnipeg game tonight I came up with a 50.1 for Colorado and a 47.6 for Winnipeg. Next I divide the expected number of shots in the game (56) up between the two teams based on their possession stats. So Colorado ends up with (50.1/(50.1+47.6))*56 = 28.72 shots. I know it seems a bit backwards that I use Fenwick to come up with number of shots. As you suggested, why not just use number of shots. As I said above, my thinking was that Fenwick better quantified the factors I wanted to work into my model. However, now I'm even questioning that myself.

    Anyway, that can be debated later. PDO says that in the long run, a team's shooting % + save % should come very close to equalling 100%. Therefore, I have normalized Shooting and Save % for each team that total to 100%. For Colorado Shooting % in this game, I take their Shooting % and combine it with Winnipeg's Save %. Since I've normalized each team's PDO to be 100%, I really could just use a league average Shooting and Save %. However, in some cases it makes a cent or two difference, so I've continued to do this for now. In this game, I have Colorado's shooting % at 8.3%. So their even strength expected goals is 28.72*.083 = 2.38.

    Powerplay goals is based on # of shots for and shots allowed per minute of time on powerplay/penalty kill. I factor in that the home team will have more powerplay time due to the referee's bias to call more penalties on the visiting team. The stat I have seen is that on average the home team will have 2.5 more minutes on the power play than the road team. I use a shooting percentage of 12%. In this game, for Colorado I have 0.814 shots per minute of powerplay time and I have them on the powerplay for 7.5 minutes. So the expected number of powerplay goals is 0.814*7.5*.12 = 0.733.

    So Colorado's expected goals tonight is 2.38 + 0.733 = 3.11
    Using similar logic I have Winnipeg's expected goals as 2.78.

    I then use Poisson to figure out the probability of each team scoring each number of goals.

    P(X=k) = (E(Goals)^k * e^(-E(Goals)))/(k!)

    So, for example Colorado's probability of scoring exactly 2 is:

    P(X=2) = (3.11^2 * 2.71828^(-3.11))/2 = 21.6%

    I do that for both teams, for k = 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7. I stop at 7 since anything higher basically has a 0 probability.

    Then I calculate the cumulative distribution by summing the Probabilities. So, for example, P(X<=2) = Sum(P(X=0,X=1,X=2)

    This allows me to start calculating the probability of each team winning. I do this for each goal amount. So what is Colorado's probability of winning if Winnipeg scores 0 goals (disregarding a tie at this point). It's the probability of Winnipeg scoring 0 goals multiplied by the probability of Colorado scoring 1 or more goals. Or, in other words:

    P(Winnipeg X=0) * (1 - P(Colorado X<=0)

    What if Winnipeg scores 1 goal?

    P(Winnipeg X=1) * (1 - P(Colorado X<=1)

    2 goals?

    P(Winnipeg X=2) * (1 - P(Colorado X<=2)

    and so on.

    I then sum up all those probablities for each team. At this point my sum comes to Colorado at 47% and Winnipeg at 36%. The remaining 17% comes from situations where they are expected to score the same number of goals. For simplicity I divide this amount by 2 and assign half to each team. So my final probablities would be 55.5% and 44.5%. I'm starting to think that assumption is too simplistic though. I'm basically assuming if it goes to a shootout both teams have a 50% chance. I think that assumption may not be valid. Anyway, that's what I'm doing at this point.

    I then translate those percentages into a betting line. So Colorado's line should be -125. If there is a big enough difference between that line and the available line I make the bet (assuming no injuries or other information to consider). In this case, I bet Winnipeg +152.

    I know my model isn't perfect and it has some oversimplifications that I will need to work out at some point. However, I do think it has aspects which allow it to find value. I just have yet to discover if that's actually true since I have never run it over the course of 1 season, let alone multiple seasons.
    Comment
    • richhhh
      SBR Rookie
      • 03-04-14
      • 6

      #107
      Thats awsome your in ontario!!! I am member at prolineplayers site and if you look in the fourm sections youll see my user name all over the place. I was a poster of the month just last month. His parlay maker is incredible useful. Basicly you just just round robin (parlay) all the edges and print the slips at home. It is not uncommon for me to have played 1000 parlays in a week. If you are interested in his site and wanna try it I know prolineplayer would give you a free trial. You gotta see this parlay maker in action it saves alot of work. You literally just open a package of proline slips place them in your printer tray and press print!!!!!!
      The news gets even better. These props I am talking about are a gold mine. I am not kidding. I have tickets on a muitiple basis that have a estimated roi of over 100%. You will not find many post about these in proline players site for the reason that leaking the info of how to calculate these is valuable. There is a good furum (cappersmall) that has a daily thread on props. I talk on this forum daily.
      Take a look at todays prop card (card 37)
      Selection 8 is ana giveways. I calulated a win% of 75% on the over. This would equal a 23.75 percent return on investment as the odds are 1.65.
      Now look at selection 2u(Perry goals odds 1.55)l and 5u(getzlaf assist odds 1.9) on this card. They are both mathimatic edges by themselfs. But correlated together the edge is grows.
      I get up everyday at 430am to evaluate these props. If I find edges worth playing I get them in early. I would bet money that 8o 2u 5u would have reach liability limits by 10am or so as there are many other people doing the exact same thing as me.
      Great post and I have some thoughts but ill wait for later time to post as I just ramble for 15 mins lol
      Comment
      • livan33
        SBR High Roller
        • 12-04-12
        • 112

        #108
        Wow, I never knew the parlaymaker worked like that. I've heard people talk about it, but I didn't know you could just put the slips in the printer. I picked up some props on my way to work this morning. None of the ones I tried were LLE, so maybe on the days I've tried before it's just been bad luck. I can definitely see what you mean with how big the edges are considering the correlation. I'm actually already a member at PLP, just have always more played proline and pointspread. I also hardly ever post there. But as soon as you mentioned that you were from Ontario I remembered seeing you post all the time on that board. Definitely a small world!
        Comment
        • livan33
          SBR High Roller
          • 12-04-12
          • 112

          #109
          Been a terrible two day run, down 7 units over the last two days.

          March 10th: 0-3 -3 Units
          Record: 75-90 +0.64 Units

          March 11th:

          Buffalo +104
          Carolina +124
          Florida -103
          Washington +179
          San Jose -210
          Comment
          • livan33
            SBR High Roller
            • 12-04-12
            • 112

            #110
            March 11th: 2-3 -0.79 Units
            Record: 77-93 -0.15 Units

            March 12th:

            Calgary +154

            Might add one more later
            Comment
            • vitruvian_nhlmlb
              SBR Rookie
              • 03-12-14
              • 19

              #111
              just read that long post above. very interesting way that you decided to come up with your picks. was it a light bulb moment when you decided to do it that way or were you thinking about that for awhile and tried other things that led you to that specific way of model?
              Comment
              • richhhh
                SBR Rookie
                • 03-04-14
                • 6

                #112
                Sup friend!!!! Does your model generally agree with line movements from the opener?
                Comment
                • livan33
                  SBR High Roller
                  • 12-04-12
                  • 112

                  #113
                  Originally posted by vitruvian_nhlmlb
                  just read that long post above. very interesting way that you decided to come up with your picks. was it a light bulb moment when you decided to do it that way or were you thinking about that for awhile and tried other things that led you to that specific way of model?
                  I've felt for a long time that the only way to beat online numbers over the long run is to come up with your own line using a model and then to compare that to the available lines. The difficult part is to develop a model. When I first developed it I quickly found out I was missing lots of things and have gradually added these pieces in. For example, when I first set it up I hadn't accounted for the fact that the home team is likely to get more powerplays than the road team. My model is still missing lots of pieces which could make it more accurate, but it's not missing as many as when I started haha.

                  For me at least, it's a gradual process to refine it. So I guess I would say that using the poisson distribution to take expected goals and translate that into probabilities was a bit of an "aha moment", but other than that it's been quite gradual.
                  Comment
                  • livan33
                    SBR High Roller
                    • 12-04-12
                    • 112

                    #114
                    Originally posted by richhhh
                    Sup friend!!!! Does your model generally agree with line movements from the opener?
                    Hey man, good to hear from you. That's an interesting question, and one that I've considered as well. I haven't tracked it, but my general feeling is this:

                    Pretty much anytime I play a team that is in the bottom 10 in the standings against a team that is top 10 in the standings, the line will move towards the favourite. This means it's best for me to wait until closer to puckdrop. I do, however, find that when my model identifies value in a game between two teams that are considered even, that the line will more often than not move towards the team I'm picking. For example, if I see value in Dallas -110 vs Minnesota, the line will eventually end up at -130 or -140. I think that's a good sign.

                    I'd be interested to hear your thoughts, including why you asked the question. I imagine I know, but I'm curious anyway.

                    I've been reading that thread over at cappersmall. Fascinating stuff and I've played props each of the last two days. Didn't win anything last night, we'll see about tonight. I literally CANNOT believe the giveaways discussion. It boggles my mind. Throughout the day I was reading your posts about how they could offer 1.01 and it would still be value. Then I watched the first period and I counted 10-12 Washington giveaways. I then check the stats and they had given the puck away ZERO times. The part I find most perplexing is that OLGC would offer something that is so subjective. Should they not be in the business of "the sure thing"? How is this to their advantage?
                    Comment
                    • livan33
                      SBR High Roller
                      • 12-04-12
                      • 112

                      #115
                      And then the next question is, if they are going to offer something that is so subjective, why would they not have done their research in order to offer fair odds?
                      Comment
                      • livan33
                        SBR High Roller
                        • 12-04-12
                        • 112

                        #116
                        My final question for today (hopefully), do you feel the edges on PLP for props are accurate? I see some people on cappersmall going against these edges, so it's made me wonder.
                        Comment
                        • livan33
                          SBR High Roller
                          • 12-04-12
                          • 112

                          #117
                          March 12th: 1-0 +1.54 Units
                          Record: 78-93 +1.39 Units

                          March 13th:

                          Phoenix +177
                          Florida +172
                          Edmonton +229
                          Buffalo +190
                          Comment
                          • livan33
                            SBR High Roller
                            • 12-04-12
                            • 112

                            #118
                            Holy crap, what happened to the Florida line? It started to move down so I thought I needed to lock it in, but now it's 50 cents higher than what I got. I don't feel like Tampa or Carolina deserve to be -200 against anyone right now.....and Tampa is now at -245!
                            Comment
                            • livan33
                              SBR High Roller
                              • 12-04-12
                              • 112

                              #119
                              Well the last week has been a disaster. Gone from up around 7.5 Units, to down around 2.5. Depending on how this weekend goes I may take some time off to update my model for the playoffs. We'll see.

                              So far for today:

                              NY Islanders +147
                              Winnipeg +106
                              Nashville +188
                              Calgary +172
                              Colorado +110
                              Comment
                              • livan33
                                SBR High Roller
                                • 12-04-12
                                • 112

                                #120
                                Florida +143
                                Comment
                                • livan33
                                  SBR High Roller
                                  • 12-04-12
                                  • 112

                                  #121
                                  Philadelphia +103
                                  Carolina +192
                                  Buffalo +137
                                  Comment
                                  • livan33
                                    SBR High Roller
                                    • 12-04-12
                                    • 112

                                    #122
                                    Calgary +196
                                    Los Angeles -140
                                    Nashville +158
                                    Comment
                                    • richhhh
                                      SBR Rookie
                                      • 03-04-14
                                      • 6

                                      #123
                                      Sorry dude for my late reply.
                                      Yes the example i used about 1.01 odds really magnifies the absolute ridiculousness of how these props can be exploited. I know exactly why olg made this mistake.They just use average's which would set a accurate line if some buildings did not score these events so dramatically different.
                                      For your question about plp numbers on props. He just started putting props on his site and I do not agree with all the numbers he post. I do excersize caution tho when my numbers stray far from his. The fact is he is a pretty smart guy and better with mathematics then I am. There is also no calculations done with correlation either. Most days you could take 2 numbers which may have little or no value by themselfs but put them on same card and you now have good value.
                                      Comment
                                      • richhhh
                                        SBR Rookie
                                        • 03-04-14
                                        • 6

                                        #124
                                        I did not play baseball props last year. I do not even follow baseball. But I believe olg will offer daily props for baseball and I am planing on learning how to cap these. I heard in forums that these were very exploitable at start of year but by end of year they lowered odds and removed correlation plays and they become much harder to gain a edge. This of coarse I am going to have to verify for myself by gathering threads. This is exactly what has happen with hockey props but as you can see the opportunity's are still there.
                                        Why I mention all this Is that Hockey season is ending and to stay ahead of game I think I am going to focus my efforts into baseball. I believe the secret to success with these props is not so much the math but finding the correct formula to apply the math.
                                        Do you have interest in spending little bit of time each day evaluating baseball props? I have never really worked with anyone with something like this but I see you have the means to apply math and maybe it could lead to profitable journey.
                                        I already did this completely by myself with hockey props and it worked quite well. I was confident it was going to because I tested the results over and over again with data that was not used to get the averages/formulas in the first place.
                                        If your interested let me know. I have a game plan which is pretty similar to how I started hockey props.
                                        Cheers
                                        Comment
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