UFC 155: Dos Santos vs Velasquez (Dec 29)

[Vaughany]

[gabe]

Junior has unbelievable takedown defense? I dunno, pally, I've believed it this whole time.

[Dwil125]

What do you guys think about Jds/Cain over 1.5 rounds -125? Or fight starts round 2 -160?

[Digo]

What do you guys think about Jds/Cain over 1.5 rounds -125? Or fight starts round 2 -160?

I really don't think JDS will be able to kO Cain after the second round. Very hard to make a bet for this fight, but i am really confident that this time Cain will try to TD JDS with no mercy. Single leg, Double leg... whatever he needs to make the job.

[Sacrelicious]

Money is on JDS, Belcher, Miller and Wineland.

Wineland is my light bet.

Pounding the shit out of JDS.

Good luck boys.

[Vrakas]

jds will suffer a great beatdown.

[Vaughany]

No idea if true but Bas Rutten apparently filling in for Goldie!...

I guess you all have already heard that I'll be filling in for Goldie with Rogan at 155. It is a real honor to back in the UFC.

god speed.
Bas

[Vaughany]

[PunisherIND]

No idea if true but Bas Rutten apparently filling in for Goldie!...

I guess you all have already heard that I'll be filling in for Goldie with Rogan at 155. It is a real honor to back in the UFC.

god speed.
Bas

I dont know if I can handle rogan and bas.

"bop bop b bop bang"
"OH KIMURA ATTEMPT"

It will be interesting at least

[Vaughany]

I dont know if I can handle rogan and bas.

"bop bop b bop bang"
"OH KIMURA ATTEMPT"

It will be interesting at least

haha

"LIVER SHOT"

"LEG KICK"

"LIVER SHOT"

"LEG KICK"

[PunisherIND]

haha

"LIVER SHOT"

"LEG KICK"

"LIVER SHOT"

"LEG KICK"

lol if there is a body shot ko both their heads might explode.

[bjpenn85]

LOL they describe body shots like theyr penetrating uzi shots.

[Kaladarus]

Velasquez going to give JDS the beating of his life. Just like the last fight JDS only chance of winning is if he catches Velasquez. This happens quite often, but not nearly often enough to not bet Cain here. Cain has advantages everywhere. Striking, grappling, strength, cardio, BJJ, speed and just about every other advantage possible. He felt JDS power last time. All he has to do is avoid the lucky punch and he should have no problems cruising to victory.

[Crassus]

Velasquez going to give JDS the beating of his life. Just like the last fight JDS only chance of winning is if he catches Velasquez. This happens quite often, but not nearly often enough to not bet Cain here. Cain has advantages everywhere. Striking, grappling, strength, cardio, BJJ, speed and just about every other advantage possible. He felt JDS power last time. All he has to do is avoid the lucky punch and he should have no problems cruising to victory.

BJJ and Striking? Reasoning please?

[Sacrelicious]

BJJ and Striking? Reasoning please?

I second this motion.

Rationale please?

[ShotgunRua]

Velasquez going to give JDS the beating of his life. Just like the last fight JDS only chance of winning is if he catches Velasquez. This happens quite often, but not nearly often enough to not bet Cain here. Cain has advantages everywhere. Striking, grappling, strength, cardio, BJJ, speed and just about every other advantage possible. He felt JDS power last time. All he has to do is avoid the lucky punch and he should have no problems cruising to victory.

Striking!!! We're talking about one of the guys with the poorest head movement and general boxing defense in the HW division vs a guy who receives praise from Vitali Klitschko.

[MD]

Striking!!! We're talking about one of the guys with the poorest head movement and general boxing defense in the HW division vs a guy who receives praise from Vitali Klitschko.

This is incorrect. A Judo Chop criticizing his ability to defend strikes certainly doesn't put him in the category of having some of the "worst general boxing defence in the HW division", especially considering it was looking at Cain from the perspective of the notion that he is an elite striker.

In regards to Kaladarus' post, I do think Cain has the BJJ edge, based on his success in grappling tournaments, but that is based as much around our lack of knowledge of JDS's ground game. If it hits the ground, however, don't expect JDS to be able to sweep or submit Cain. Cain will destroy JDS if he takes him down, I think we can all agree on that. Whether or not he can get the fight to the ground is another matter entirely.

[El Nino]

No idea if true but Bas Rutten apparently filling in for Goldie!...

I guess you all have already heard that I'll be filling in for Goldie with Rogan at 155. It is a real honor to back in the UFC.

god speed.
Bas

Will be interesting to hear Bas call an inadvertent groin shot. Ooooooo straight to the pills! Bongada bongada bong!

[ShotgunRua]

This is incorrect. A Judo Chop criticizing his ability to defend strikes certainly doesn't put him in the category of having some of the "worst general boxing defence in the HW division", especially considering it was looking at Cain from the perspective of the notion that he is an elite striker.

In regards to Kaladarus' post, I do think Cain has the BJJ edge, based on his success in grappling tournaments, but that is based as much around our lack of knowledge of JDS's ground game. If it hits the ground, however, don't expect JDS to be able to sweep or submit Cain. Cain will destroy JDS if he takes him down, I think we can all agree on that. Whether or not he can get the fight to the ground is another matter entirely.

This is nothing to do with the judo chop article, which was well laid out. Cain has been tagged and hurt by the likes of Kongo, he throws without covering up, this is obvious from just watching any footage.

It is impossible to know what would happen if they hit the ground. Apparently JDS has a pretty comprehensive BJJ game, it's certainly not safe to assume Cain would be dominant if the fight hit the mat, for all we know JDS may sweep him and dominate from the top- pure speculation, as is the speculation Cain has a significant ground advantage.

[MD]

This is nothing to do with the judo chop article, which was well laid out. Cain has been tagged and hurt by the likes of Kongo, he throws without covering up, this is obvious from just watching any footage.

It is impossible to know what would happen if they hit the ground. Apparently JDS has a pretty comprehensive BJJ game, it's certainly not safe to assume Cain would be dominant if the fight hit the mat, for all we know JDS may sweep him and dominate from the top- pure speculation, as is the speculation Cain has a significant ground advantage.

JDS has been tagged by the likes of Carwin and Roy Nelson, Kongo is a superior striker to both of them.

"Apparently" is pure speculation. Thinking that Cain will dominate if the fight hits the ground is not pure speculation, it's an informed opinion based on their fight histories. That would be like me saying that JDS having a striking edge is pure speculation. Look what Cain did to Bigfoot Silva. I find it hard to believe that you're going to claim that JDS is better off of his back than Bigfoot Silva.

[ShotgunRua]

JDS has been tagged by the likes of Carwin and Roy Nelson, Kongo is a superior striker to both of them.

"Apparently" is pure speculation. Thinking that Cain will dominate if the fight hits the ground is not pure speculation, it's an informed opinion based on their fight histories. That would be like me saying that JDS having a striking edge is pure speculation. Look what Cain did to Bigfoot Silva. I find it hard to believe that you're going to claim that JDS is better off of his back than Bigfoot Silva.

I am not speculating anything, I'm merely playing devils advocate and highlighting that what you are proposing- that Cain has a distinct advantage on the ground- is speculation. I don't know how JDS would stack up with Cain if he somehow gets him down, neither do you- we haven't seen enough to say with any confidence.

You saying Cain has a striking edge would be absolutely retarded, as we've seen both guys standing with a variety of opponents, and they stood with either other and it didn't go particularly well for Cain. Me saying JDS has a ground edge would be equally retarded, not because it's proven incorrect, but because I would be speculating.

If I had to guess I'd say JDS would have trouble if Cain gained a dominant position, but as I said in all previous posts I have no idea if that's actually the case. What we do know is that Cain takes a lot of strikes, and JDS hits hard and accurate. We also know he as very good takedown defense.

All this seems to indicate that JDS is a bad stylistic match up for Cain.

[MD]

I am not speculating anything, I'm merely playing devils advocate and highlighting that what you are proposing- that Cain has a distinct advantage on the ground- is speculation. I don't know how JDS would stack up with Cain if he somehow gets him down, neither do you- we haven't seen enough to say with any confidence.

You saying Cain has a striking edge would be absolutely retarded, as we've seen both guys standing with a variety of opponents, and they stood with either other and it didn't go particularly well for Cain. Me saying JDS has a ground edge would be equally retarded, not because it's proven incorrect, but because I would be speculating.

If I had to guess I'd say JDS would have trouble if Cain gained a dominant position, but as I said in all previous posts I have no idea if that's actually the case. What we do know is that Cain takes a lot of strikes, and JDS hits hard and accurate. We also know he as very good takedown defense.

All this seems to indicate that JDS is a bad stylistic match up for Cain.

So you're saying that because we don't know for a fact that Cain would have a big edge on the ground, it's speculation? What's the point in even discussing fights, in that case? Isn't discerning how two fighters compare in various aspects of MMA how we, you know, handicap the fights? I don't know for sure that Cain would crush JDS on the ground, but I have multiple reasons to believe so, and until I see reasons not to, I'm going to believe that if Cain takes JDS down, he'll annihilate him.

[ShotgunRua]

So you're saying that because we don't know for a fact that Cain would have a big edge on the ground, it's speculation?

Yes, if you don't know something, you are speculating it. Sometimes that speculation is educated, (for example, we've seen both fighters in that position, ideally against similar or even common opponents), sometimes it's not, (for example trying to evaluate how a supposedly proficient BJJ expert would perform against a proven wrestler, when we don't know know enough about the former's BJJ ability/technique.

You believe Cain will annihilate JDS if he gets him down, that's great maybe he will. Plenty of people believe in religious bollocks as well, maybe there's truth in that. Right now I'm not seeing a case for either JDS' inability to work on the ground, or the existence of a divine being.

[Kaladarus]

Cain dominated Nogueira on the feet. Nogueira is a better striker than anyone JDS has beat other than Cain. The competition JDS has had on the feet has been bad. Country, Carwin and Mir are all slow and make perfect match ups for a fast counter puncher like JDS.

Also JDS doesn't kick. If Cain was a smart fighter he could kick and move all day. JDS is not aggressive, he waits for the kill to come to him. If JDS gets aggressive he could get taken down. This strategy will probably not be put in place. We've seen JDS after the first round though. Country and Carwin have bad cardio. Carwin was gassed completely after the first round and JDS was unable to finish. He has a very low chance to finish in later rounds and his gas tank is mediocre at best.

Take down defence is not really relevant when you are a counter puncher fighting guys that are much slower than you with low level MMA wrestling. Especially when you don't kick. JDS previous opponents were good, but all lacked cardio and speed. Something Cain has more of than anyone in the HW division.

[MD]

Yes, if you don't know something, you are speculating it. Sometimes that speculation is educated, (for example, we've seen both fighters in that position, ideally against similar or even common opponents), sometimes it's not, (for example trying to evaluate how a supposedly proficient BJJ expert would perform against a proven wrestler, when we don't know know enough about the former's BJJ ability/technique.

You believe Cain will annihilate JDS if he gets him down, that's great maybe he will. Plenty of people believe in religious bollocks as well, maybe there's truth in that. Right now I'm not seeing a case for either JDS' inability to work on the ground, or the existence of a divine being.

If that's what you believe, then you're entitled to think that. I strongly disagree with you, however. We may find out, if Cain can take him down.

[Sacrelicious]

JDS to win.

[Sacrelicious]

Be highly cautious of over analysis.

We are dealing with two dudes getting into a cage half naked and trying to beat the shit out of each other.

Thought may be dangerous.

[Crassus]

JDS destroyed Carwin in rds 1 and half of 2, when it became clear that Carwin wasn't gonna go down without a crazy fight, JDS took the safe route and cruised to a D win. Carwin does have some of the strongest punches at HW, can't really blame JDS for not finishing.

While this might be the blueprint to beat JDS, what makes you think Cain has the striking to do it? He got outstruck at times by Cheick Kongo and Ben Rothwell...

[ShotgunRua]

If that's what you believe, then you're entitled to think that. I strongly disagree with you, however. We may find out, if Cain can take him down.

I'm not sure how to respond to this. I've spend the last few posts heavily pointing out that where the ground game is concerned I have absolutely no opinion, and you respond with "if that's what you believe"........ For the sake of clarity what specifically do you think I believe?

[Vaughany]

[NunyaBidness]

Here comes the rest:

[Rubber Guard]

Anyone like NOT Miller Inside at -154?

[NunyaBidness]

Me.

You're going to be able to get a pretty similar price on the under, and a better price on miller by sub.

[El Nino]

Here comes the rest:

Pickett as a dog...sign me up.

[Beelzebubzy]

Me.

You're going to be able to get a pretty similar price on the under, and a better price on miller by sub.

I agree

and as always I like not lauzon by dec