Is Johan Santana still the best pitcher in baseball?

[ryanXL977]

you think the mariners offense is comparable to the yanks? seriously.
i dont blaame pitchers for wins
its not pitchers faults if their closer sucks like the tribes,
wang is equal , if anything, to felix
nobody is scared of wang

[MJFtheGenius]

Felix gives up too many homeruns, If you watched Ryan you would know that.

[ryanXL977]

yet his era is about the same as wangs
so who cares how they score on solo shots or back to back doubles
doesnt matter

[ryanXL977]

watch matt cain pitch. no run support, awful pen
the guy is heads and shoulders better than wan
but he doesnt get wins bc of his pen and offense
so you are going solely off of wins, which is a stat that doesnt matter to me when judging how good a pitcher is

[mobu]

tim hudson.

[austintx05]

tim hudson.

hud is def solid, but some of his best years are behind him. No disrespect, but I don't consider him top 5.

[eidolon]

did someone just put cueto in the top 5?

thats funny

so you don't think cueto is great?
not top 5, how about top 10? top 20? where do you put him?

[austintx05]

so you don't think cueto is great?
not top 5, how about top 10? top 20? where do you put him?

sbr is going downhill, and faster than I thought.

Are you serious? Cueto has made 2 major league starts. Now you want to place him in the top 5?

GET A CLUE

[eidolon]

sbr is going downhill, and faster than I thought.

Are you serious? Cueto has made 2 major league starts. Now you want to place him in the top 5?

GET A CLUE

Have you seen him pitch?
he has been the most dominate pitcher this year. People wont just start teeing off on the stuff he has. He isn't a Todd van popple. The fact you are saying he isnt great, is kind of funny.

[mobu]

respectfully, austintx05, i disagree.

i think he is close to as dominant as peavy or beckett, his numbers on the braves the past fews seasons are less reflective of his pitching then they are of the over-all quality of the roster, up to now. keep an eye on his number of quality starts this year as well. clearly i am a braves fan, but still, he is very dangerous. of course there are the dice-k's, webb's, verlanders, wangs's, etc. of today, but i think peavy, beckett, hudson, halladay, and johan (although it kills me to say it), are probably top 5 imo, but not in that order.

[austintx05]

Have you seen him pitch?
he has been the most dominate pitcher this year. People wont just start teeing off on the stuff he has. He isn't a Todd van popple. The fact you are saying he isnt great, is kind of funny.

no its not funny. YOu cannot put a kid with 2 starts as a top 5 pitcher. You have to be proven. This argument is a waste of my time.

I am not saying he doesn't have good stuff or that he won't be good. But he doesn't belong in this argument right now.

[St. Andrew]

I guess I'm biased. For me the best pitcher is the one I can bet on, turn off the computer, go to bed, and know that when i wake up my account balance will be bigger.

Jake Peavy

Now, what I wish is that the top three moderators of this site would definitively put out the TOP FIVE list of current pitchers, in order, and end the debate. Then we would have no more argument because the gods will have spoken. Mods, do it. Who is the top five? Write it in stone.

[Willie Bee]

this thread shows me how many idiots watch baseball.

i am the most knowledgeable person on baseball at this forum.

The most knowledgeable of a bunch of idiots?

Ladies & Gents, let's see if we can have discussions like this in the future without referring to someone else as a fvcking idiot and other like terms just because of a difference of opinions.

[thegreatdiatchi]

No people like you who would take Escobar over Wang is the reason why Bush is president.

That comment was too much.

[thegreatdiatchi]

SP
1. Peavy (I think he just has the best stuff overall right now)
2. Webb (I think he's turning from a very good pitcher to a great pitcher)
3. Santana (I still think he's a top 3 guy just not the best)
4. Wang (Wang may not be a K King but he's the reason the Yanks made the playoffs last year)
5. Halladay (not what he was a couple years ago but he still is a master of the game)

[St. Andrew]

When healthy, Scott Kazmir and Erik Bedard are lights-out. I would put them in the mix.

[ryanXL977]

the point is, i dont see how anyone can put wang anywhere near the top 5 with his numbers. theonly numbers he has that are exceptional are wins, and any sp on the yanks whocan throw over 5 innings should have 18 wins bc they can hit

i would take kazmir healthy over wang in a second
bedard i would not

[austintx05]

The most knowledgeable of a bunch of idiots?

Ladies & Gents, let's see if we can have discussions like this in the future without referring to someone else as a fvcking idiot and other like terms just because of a difference of opinions.

willie, did I hurt your aggie feelings?

[austintx05]

the point is, i dont see how anyone can put wang anywhere near the top 5 with his numbers. theonly numbers he has that are exceptional are wins, and any sp on the yanks whocan throw over 5 innings should have 18 wins bc they can hit

i would take kazmir healthy over wang in a second
bedard i would not

numbers don't make a pitcher

[The_Kid]

Wait till Santana gets adjusted to the NL hitters. He dominated the AL and they use the DH, so in my opinion, that says a lot because you're facing 9 legit hitters. He's really facing 8 hitters in the NL now because the pitcher is pretty much an easy out, unless you're Micah Owings.

[ryanXL977]

numbers dont make a pitcher is true. i just dont think wang is top 5 and ithink most people would agree. is that false?

[St. Andrew]

Here's how I rank them, if they were all fully healthy:

1. Peavy
2. Webb
3. Haren
4. Bedard
5. Kazmir

[ryanXL977]

johan is still the best til lotherwise proven
every yr he starts slow and every yr he is a killer post asb
i like your list though, i wouldnt put bedard and kaz above johan but i like your list
at least you know wang aint there

[St. Andrew]

johan is still the best til lotherwise proven
every yr he starts slow and every yr he is a killer post asb
i like your list though, i wouldnt put bedard and kaz above johan but i like your list
at least you know wang aint there

Wang is not even in the discussion as far as I'm concerned. On the D'Backs, he would be the number three starter.

[ryanXL977]

i agree
boy did i get blasted for saying that shit

he isnt even top 10
maybe top 15

[Willie Bee]

willie, did I hurt your aggie feelings?

Not sure how Aggies got into this, just hate to see discussions like this turned into "you're a fvcking idiot" posts. Didn't feel like moving posts so early on a Sunday morning and thought I'd appeal to the good senses and decency of the posters involved. Perhaps I was wrong to do that.

Also found your comments about being the most knowledgeable person on this board when it comes to baseball and this thread is full of idiots to be a bit odd and contradictory.

[moneyline]

I agree with Ryan. Matter of fact, I saw Jose Canseco pitch once on ESPN. His windup, delivery and ball movement were all superior to Wang's ...

(think the Yanks could sign him)

[austintx05]

Not sure how Aggies got into this, just hate to see discussions like this turned into "you're a fvcking idiot" posts. Didn't feel like moving posts so early on a Sunday morning and thought I'd appeal to the good senses and decency of the posters involved. Perhaps I was wrong to do that.

Also found your comments about being the most knowledgeable person on this board when it comes to baseball and this thread is full of idiots to be a bit odd and contradictory.

willie, I'm mesing with you as far as Aggie goes, cause that rivalry will never die.

Second, we need a "sarcasm" icon for my baseball comment

[austintx05]

Here's how I rank them, if they were all fully healthy:

1. Peavy
2. Webb
3. Haren
4. Bedard
5. Kazmir

Your list is retarded. The only pitcher who can contest with Santana is Peavy. The bottom 4 on your list are very good pitchers, but Santana is much better by a long shot.

Wang is better than your bottom 3 as well

[ryanXL977]

wang isnt better than haren
wang may be better than bedard

[austintx05]

wang isnt better than haren
wang may be better than bedard

the art of keeping the ball on the ground is lost in today's game. Most care about strikeouts and stats. Wang is very underrated, unlike your intelligence.

[ryanXL977]

again, wang is top 15. he isnt top 10
if that makes him underrated, so be it
you are the smartest person in here you said, so i dare not quibble with you

wang=lowe

[St. Andrew]

Your list is retarded. The only pitcher who can contest with Santana is Peavy. The bottom 4 on your list are very good pitchers, but Santana is much better by a long shot.

Wang is better than your bottom 3 as well

Santana gave up 33 home runs last year, which is more than anyone on my list (by a mile) and is also a big reason why he lost 13 games.

[austintx05]

Santana gave up 33 home runs last year, which is more than anyone on my list (by a mile) and is also a big reason why he lost 13 games.

should we also dig up Peavy's 2006 season?

[austintx05]

this season might be a better indicator statistically as both santana/peavy will be facing the same lineups.