5 Dimes takes back $32K in casino winnings

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Dark Horse
    SBR Posting Legend
    • 12-14-05
    • 13764

    #176
    Originally posted by ForgetWallStreet
    The topic of "bad lines" is covered thoroughly in their TOCs. Is the same true of bad payout charts in the casino?
    He did bet into a bad line. I'm just not convinced that a software error is as insignificant as an actual bad line, in terms of human error. There's something called beta testing.
    Comment
    • BrianLaverty
      SBR MVP
      • 07-02-07
      • 2183

      #177
      I hate to give 5dimes any thing to lean... but when slot machines DO fail and payout wrong amount.... casinoes have legally confiscated the money on grounds of machine error. Is this the same thing? Not really.... This seems more like a human error then a computer error... Its not like the machine was paying out the wrong amount. It was paying out what was LISTED.... Player does seem to have a case on that point.



      Also.. shouldn't Tony have at least credited him an amount that he won that he would have won had it been regular payout instead of 397%? Like... he won 32k..... Shouldn't he at least get 25% of that? Wouldn't 8k be a fair payout in this circumstance?
      Comment
      • JoeVig
        SBR Wise Guy
        • 01-11-08
        • 772

        #178
        "Malfunctions void all pays and plays", but malfunction is different than incompetence.
        Comment
        • soxwin1917
          SBR MVP
          • 09-09-08
          • 1188

          #179
          This looks like an easy win for SBR...They can rule in favor of the player and not worry about offending 5 Dimes because the book has already said they won't be need arbitration in this case.
          Comment
          • ForgetWallStreet
            SBR Sharp
            • 04-27-07
            • 342

            #180
            Originally posted by Dark Horse
            He did bet into a bad line. I'm just not convinced that a software error is as insignificant as an actual bad line, in terms of human error. There's something called beta testing.
            They aren't the same thing and 5 Dimes acknowledges this themselves by addressing them separately in their TOC.


            Originally posted by 5 Dimes

            All wagers placed on events with obvious erroneous lines resulting from human error will be graded no action. It is the sole discretion of 5Dimes regarding the partial/complete voiding of parlays, teasers, and IF wagers when a play includes a selection with a line error.
            Originally posted by 5 Dimes

            Individual payouts in the Bonus Casino do not always pay as much as standard casino payouts. Some games have specific options which pay less, so other options can pay more. Players are responsible for checking the payout charts for each game before playing.
            Ultimately, they're going to hide behind this language:

            Originally posted by 5 Dimes

            5Dimes reserves the right to reverse the incorrect application of funds into an account due to human or system/software error. Additional funds that were not intended to be credited into a customer’s account will be reverted upon discovery of the inaccuracy and any additional earnings from those funds are subject to voiding/forfeiture.
            Which is BS because this wasn't a software error.
            Comment
            • hanziman
              SBR Wise Guy
              • 03-11-10
              • 692

              #181
              Ahhh, thanks for brining this up.

              At the very least we see how Tony aka 5dimes operates.

              Staying clear of this shop.

              Thanks!
              Comment
              • soxwin1917
                SBR MVP
                • 09-09-08
                • 1188

                #182
                Originally posted by soxwin1917
                This looks like an easy win for SBR...They can rule in favor of the player and not worry about offending 5 Dimes because the book has already said they won't be need arbitration in this case.
                And I don't mean my above comment to sound like an insult about SBR. They're the gold standard when it comes to helping the player get a fair result.
                Comment
                • topgame85
                  SBR Posting Legend
                  • 03-30-08
                  • 12325

                  #183
                  The settlement option is a joke its all or nothing pay the man or don't. Obviously I say pay him in full but giving him a partial payment is not acceptable either. He may be willing to take that because he knows he has an uphill battle to get it all and honestly I probably would do the same but it does not change the fact he is owed the whole balance. People make mistakes every day in the real world that costs them millions of dollars, their homes, their freedom their families etc. You are responsible and accountable for your mistakes now deal with the consequences. I hope he gets paid in full and buys a sweet ride with a license plate "thxtony"
                  Comment
                  • Dark Horse
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 12-14-05
                    • 13764

                    #184
                    Originally posted by BrianLaverty

                    Also.. shouldn't Tony have at least credited him an amount that he won that he would have won had it been regular payout instead of 397%? Like... he won 32k..... Shouldn't he at least get 25% of that? Wouldn't 8k be a fair payout in this circumstance?
                    Good point. How much did the player win without the wrong payout scale?
                    Comment
                    • WVU
                      SBR Sharp
                      • 02-01-08
                      • 417

                      #185
                      To the OP, nice catch you hit them for about the perfect amount here.

                      Tony, you need to pay the stupid tax here. I would say 5 dimes is fair.
                      Comment
                      • ForgetWallStreet
                        SBR Sharp
                        • 04-27-07
                        • 342

                        #186
                        Originally posted by WVU
                        To the OP, nice catch you hit them for about the perfect amount here.

                        Tony, you need to pay the stupid tax here. I would say 5 dimes is fair.
                        The perfect amount here was probably 0 since it's obvious they have no intention of paying so by taking the shot he just burnt up an out. In OP's defense it's tough to behave optimally in unprecedented situations (390% edge!!!).
                        Comment
                        • Dark Horse
                          SBR Posting Legend
                          • 12-14-05
                          • 13764

                          #187
                          Originally posted by ForgetWallStreet

                          Ultimately, they're going to hide behind this language:


                          Originally Posted by 5 Dimes
                          5Dimes reserves the right to reverse the incorrect application of funds into an account due to human or system/software error. Additional funds that were not intended to be credited into a customer’s account will be reverted upon discovery of the inaccuracy and any additional earnings from those funds are subject to voiding/forfeiture.
                          Which is BS because this wasn't a software error.
                          Human or system/software error.

                          Funny, because I've almost completed a 180 now. lol

                          The player did not act in good faith. And Tony has no right to call him a shot taker, because his casino is like Charlie's chocolate factory.

                          Hard to find middle ground when both are wrong. WVU is probably right by calling on Tony to pay the tax.
                          Comment
                          • LVHerbie
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 09-15-05
                            • 6344

                            #188
                            Originally posted by Bill Dozer
                            Some of you watch too much conspiracy tv.

                            Actually I was saying the opposite. The player is saying the payouts were listed and theorizes that the math was bad. That would be in his favor vs. a malfunction. But again, we don't know that 5D would agree with those facts or the math.

                            Sometimes posters will post all night and get fired up arguing when there isn't anything to argue yet. Sometimes the books fix their decision the next day and other times the book has a fact the player left out that makes the discussion irrelevant. If SBR were to fight for players at face value throwing heymakers, SBR wouldn't have their respect and the line of communication we have with almost all decent books.

                            5Dimes is known for having a ton of options in their sportsbook and in their casino, which they have more than one of... Especially with their unique ways of sports betting. Some of the disputes are semi-new to us and the industry and set a precedent. An example, the player who was able to bet all legs of a unique parlay multiple times to exceed limits over time. 5D was more than certain he knew he was circumventing but paid because his funds were at risk and their oversight. They paid another player $60,000 after mediation this year. The player never posted. 5D has never cheated a player. Even in the WWE wrestling prop's take-your-money-but-youre-acct-is-closed decision, it was fair.

                            We'll discuss with 5D as soon as possible.
                            Unlike the other 5dimes' case, since the error was on a the other end of the paytable (ie on a frequently hit hand) and the payout was so ridiculous high the variance in this case is going to be extremely low and the players funds are never really going to be risk... Regardless, I'm hopeful that this isn't the way you are heading in this dispute, as people who bet bad lines would have a strong argument about why they right to take advantage of a book's JUSTIFIABLE errors...
                            Comment
                            • ForgetWallStreet
                              SBR Sharp
                              • 04-27-07
                              • 342

                              #189
                              Originally posted by Dark Horse
                              Human or system/software error.

                              Funny, because I've almost completed a 180 now. lol

                              The player did not act in good faith. And Tony has no right to call him a shot taker, because his casino is like Charlie's chocolate factory.
                              It's quite obvious that they are addressing account/administrative errors in that part of the terms.
                              Comment
                              • WVU
                                SBR Sharp
                                • 02-01-08
                                • 417

                                #190
                                Originally posted by ForgetWallStreet
                                The perfect amount here was probably 0 since it's obvious they have no intention of paying so by taking the shot he just burnt up an out. In OP's defense it's tough to behave optimally in unprecedented situations (390% edge!!!).

                                You would love to be in this guy's shoes. Anyone would. There are plenty of better or as good outs.
                                Comment
                                • ncsubowen
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 02-12-11
                                  • 1227

                                  #191
                                  All bets are off.
                                  Comment
                                  • roanildinho
                                    SBR MVP
                                    • 06-02-10
                                    • 1320

                                    #192
                                    Pay the man what the fudge
                                    Comment
                                    • the sink
                                      SBR High Roller
                                      • 03-04-10
                                      • 201

                                      #193
                                      Originally posted by ForgetWallStreet
                                      The perfect amount here was probably 0 since it's obvious they have no intention of paying so by taking the shot he just burnt up an out. In OP's defense it's tough to behave optimally in unprecedented situations (390% edge!!!).
                                      matchbook had +88.5 -105 on minnesota against boston in the nba, but I didnt take it and there was 5000$ available...

                                      Should I have taken it?
                                      Comment
                                      • ForgetWallStreet
                                        SBR Sharp
                                        • 04-27-07
                                        • 342

                                        #194
                                        Originally posted by WVU
                                        You would love to be in this guy's shoes. Anyone would. There are plenty of better or as good outs.
                                        I (like many others) have won slightly more than that there over the years, and I've actually collected some of it. He's going to collect 0. How is that better?
                                        Comment
                                        • Kaabee
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 01-21-06
                                          • 2482

                                          #195
                                          at the minimum he should be paid an amount you could expect from a 112.5% payout table since 5dimes did not complain about the paytable in the zabula case. this amounts to about $9200.
                                          Comment
                                          • ForgetWallStreet
                                            SBR Sharp
                                            • 04-27-07
                                            • 342

                                            #196
                                            Originally posted by the sink
                                            matchbook had +88.5 -105 on minnesota against boston in the nba, but I didnt take it and there was 5000$ available...

                                            Should I have taken it?
                                            Matchbook does not profile the same way that virtually every shop does, so it's not really relevant. I'm also not arguing that the OP should have known he wouldn't get paid going in. I was merely pointing out with the benefit of hindsight that 32K wasn't the optimal amout here.
                                            Comment
                                            • WVU
                                              SBR Sharp
                                              • 02-01-08
                                              • 417

                                              #197
                                              Originally posted by ForgetWallStreet
                                              I (like many others) have won slightly more than that there over the years, and I've actually collected some of it. He's going to collect 0. How is that better?

                                              care to wager on this?
                                              Comment
                                              • Monte
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 08-21-10
                                                • 2056

                                                #198
                                                Never fails to amaze me, how Tony tries to make the players look like evil ppl stealing from his candy store aka 5D
                                                When in fact everyone can see that he has the absolute power, the book can do whatever they want with the players.
                                                Locking accounts, confiscate everything, saying piss off @SBR we won't argue about this case (cos that's what he does here, but iam sure money will heal the wounds and preserve them the A+ rating, there surely isn't any shop better than 5D ), and ofc make him look like an asshole.

                                                If this happened at..Pinny...iam sure they would have given him some cash for the beta testing as DH says.
                                                Oh and there the boss wouldn't go on live chat and make a clown of himself, i guess.
                                                It's hard to find a such high rated book that cannot be taken serious at all, hilarious.
                                                Comment
                                                • ForgetWallStreet
                                                  SBR Sharp
                                                  • 04-27-07
                                                  • 342

                                                  #199
                                                  Originally posted by WVU
                                                  care to wager on this?
                                                  Not really. Fair line wouldn't be 0 but would still be much less than a competent person could extract from 5 Dimes in legitimate ways. If casino angle shooting is the OPs only trick then he probably did the right thing.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • WVU
                                                    SBR Sharp
                                                    • 02-01-08
                                                    • 417

                                                    #200
                                                    before we rush to judgement on SBR, let's see if they can get this to a negotiation table. That is what they need to be doing. the faster the better. Get this man his 5k with a nondisclosure clause and look like heros and be done with it.
                                                    Comment
                                                    • LVHerbie
                                                      SBR Hall of Famer
                                                      • 09-15-05
                                                      • 6344

                                                      #201
                                                      Originally posted by ForgetWallStreet
                                                      They aren't the same thing and 5 Dimes acknowledges this themselves by addressing them separately in their TOC.






                                                      Ultimately, they're going to hide behind this language:



                                                      Which is BS because this wasn't a software error.
                                                      Normally I would think it would be reasonable to void out winnings of shot takers due to human error... In my opinion the more important question here is reasonable for A+ book to have this problem in their casino a few days after having another 5 figure dispute caused by bad video poker paytable? (I believe Justin described it as being retarded in having offered the game)...
                                                      Comment
                                                      • bettilimbroke999
                                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                                        • 02-04-08
                                                        • 13254

                                                        #202
                                                        Tell Tony you'll settle for 30k and a blowjob
                                                        Comment
                                                        • wrongturn
                                                          SBR MVP
                                                          • 06-06-06
                                                          • 2228

                                                          #203
                                                          With 390% payout, 5D needs to add a rule that you can not use bots, hands or feet to play this game. Only nose is allowed.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • jesuseatsnubs
                                                            SBR Wise Guy
                                                            • 04-27-11
                                                            • 507

                                                            #204
                                                            m8 .. If i were you I would have kept going till you reached 100k at least .

                                                            then if they decided not to pay you even though you won without using ANY BOTS .

                                                            you could easily sue them and win .. good luck to you though and I really hope you get payed .

                                                            funny how Tony got out of paying $14k .. KARMA IS A BITCH TONY .. u gotta pay up $32k now .. the dude won it legit .
                                                            Comment
                                                            • ForgetWallStreet
                                                              SBR Sharp
                                                              • 04-27-07
                                                              • 342

                                                              #205
                                                              Originally posted by LVHerbie
                                                              Normally I would think it would be reasonable to void out winnings of shot takers due to human error... In my opinion the more important question here is reasonable for A+ book to have this problem in their casino a few days after having another 5 figure dispute caused by bad video poker paytable? (I believe Justin described it as being retarded in having offered the game)...
                                                              I think the big issue here is that they hid behind their terms in the last dispute, and this time their terms clearly state to consult payout charts for proper odds on casino games, so um, what now?
                                                              Comment
                                                              • beanbag
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 01-21-10
                                                                • 2364

                                                                #206
                                                                "Oh boy, here we go again."

                                                                just what i thought
                                                                Comment
                                                                • topgame85
                                                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                                                  • 03-30-08
                                                                  • 12325

                                                                  #207
                                                                  Very disturbing so may people advocate for the settlement. Payment in full or massive downgrade and severe biz ties. Next time one of you guys win and has a dispute should everyone say well give him 20% thats fair? No its bullshit and he should get 100% of owed monies. Setting a precedent where books can call us shot takers and somehow come out looking good by giving us a portion of what is owed is dangerous to say the least. Pay him and move on.... save a bit of face.... if we can not try to beath the books then what is the point? The books currently always have a mathematical edge on the bettor but the second a bettor finds an offered edge they are a scum bag? Then what are the books and casinos who are ALWAYS the benefactors of statistics? You have thousands of people a day playing your games a day at a disadvantage and someone finds an advantage which is noones fault but your own and they are the troublemaker? Get real
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • mighty maron
                                                                    SBR MVP
                                                                    • 04-20-09
                                                                    • 4215

                                                                    #208
                                                                    1. Has anyone reported that 5dimes has added to their accounts after finding an error that overwhelming favored the house? If there were this many errors that are against the house quoted edge, then its reasonable to assume that there were some errors out there that were out of kilter for the house?

                                                                    2. Op has done a lot to respond to questions posed in this thread! He explains his position...he goes to live chat after we request him to; he posts the chat with Tony when we ask him to.

                                                                    3. Op is exceedingly patient and polite in this situation.

                                                                    Where is the companies responsibility in this? I feel for the OP. He has handled this siutation with professionalism and patience. Very interested to see where this goes.
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • secretstash
                                                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                                                      • 03-29-10
                                                                      • 14907

                                                                      #209
                                                                      this is hilarious.. i hope justin7 is on this case.. he seems to really harp down on these books and hopefully isnt influenced on the books rating or their affiliate deal with sbr.

                                                                      -stash
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • BrianLaverty
                                                                        SBR MVP
                                                                        • 07-02-07
                                                                        • 2183

                                                                        #210
                                                                        We are talking about settlement because I think everyone can agree OP will not be getting full amount. Tony is very stubborn, and I have never seen him say something like that and then reverse it. OP can completely forget about getting 32k... he should be more focused on trying to get as much as he can... hopefully more then 5k
                                                                        Comment
                                                                        SBR Contests
                                                                        Collapse
                                                                        Top-Rated US Sportsbooks
                                                                        Collapse
                                                                        Working...