BetCRIS deleting wagers when market moves against them

[BigDaddy]

that is the worst analogy in the history of analogys

lol

was thinking the same thing

wtf!

[smoke a bowl]

that is the worst analogy in the history of analogys

Wasn't perfect I get it. However books don't need the OP, the OP needs books. If the OP never made another bet at BetCris, they would not lose any sleep over it. So there is no point in the book helping the OP here when all he was doing was taking advantage of a human error. However if a normal recreational gambler were to make the same wager the book would give him or her the benefit of the doubt. The recreational gambler gets more leeway than the pure advantage gambler just like the good customer at your bar gets more leeway than the guy that comes in for the 1st time not looking to spend any money.

[mtneer1212]

The bad line rule is to prevent a book from being liable for a bet like Cleveland +14, instead of the correct line of Cleveland -14. It was not invented to avoid half-point swings. This is complete garbage by CRIS. They know better.

[smoke a bowl]

The bad line rule is to prevent a book from being liable for a bet like Cleveland +14, instead of the correct line of Cleveland -14. It was not invented to avoid half-point swings. This is complete garbage by CRIS. They know better.

The OP layed -14. Booked meant to go to -14.5 but instead went to -13.5. OP instantly hit it again knowing the book meant to go to -14.5 (he knows because he is not an idiot. he's a professional whose bets get respected every time he makes them). Bet was instantly cancelled. Knowing the OP, it wouldn't shock me if the whole purpose of this thread was to indirectly let BetCris know that they need to come up with a better way to notify players when a bet has been cancelled and i actually agree with that.

[mtneer1212]

The OP layed -14. Booked meant to go to -14.5 but instead went to -13.5. OP instantly hit it again knowing the book meant to go to -14.5 (he knows because he is not an idiot. he's a professional whose bets get respected every time he makes them). Bet was instantly cancelled. Knowing the OP, it wouldn't shock me if the whole purpose of this thread was to indirectly let BetCris know that they need to come up with a better way to notify players when a bet has been cancelled and i actually agree with that.

I respectfully disagree. A "line error" this small means that a book can cancel any line anytime they want. That was NOT the intent of the "obvious bad line" rule.

[smoke a bowl]

I respectfully disagree. A "line error" this small means that a book can cancel any line anytime they want. That was NOT the intent of the "obvious bad line" rule.

I certainly get that. I'm far from 100% that I agree with the cancellation myself. The biggest point I was trying to make in the whole thread is that the OP was misrepresenting the facts saying that the bet was cancelled 7 hours after it was made because the line went to 15.5.

[aylos84]

Not seen the replies to this thread until now. Firstly the only time I seem to come on here is when I'm pissed off at pinnacle or CRIS for cancelling my wagers and given the thousands of bets I make into both places 99.9% of the time I am very happy with the way both books are run. But CRIS are deserving of criticism in this instance.

I made the bet -14 automove to -14 -126. Trader probably messes up and moves to -13.5 I bet again -13.5 bet should stand. If another account bet at -13.5 would this bet stand ????

I'm not looking to deceive anybody here. I made the reply earlier:

"Well I might have been the one that bet at -14 too but still not a bad line." which lets you know exactly what happened here.

A trading error is not a bad line. I occasionally bet the wrong side of a game and then have to eat 5 or 10 cents juice to get off the game. That's just the cost of doing business. When you make thousands of bets or thousands of line moves mistakes will happen. If they moved to -4.5 when they were supposed to be -14.5 that is a bad line. -13.5 isn't the bet should stand period. It's not my job (or anybody else who could have bet -13.5) to work out if CRIS made an error or they want to take a position on the dog. If they had moved to -15.5 instead of -14.5 and I middled out +15.5 after all the books moved to -14.5. Is this a bad line??


Trading a game at -13.5 when the market is -14 is a perfectly sound trading strategy if you like the underdog. The fact that I bet -14 30 seconds earlier should have absolutely no influence on whether this bet stands or not. I know of pinnacle traders moving a line to give customers a better price just after they have bet to try and put them on tilt.

"That bet was cancelled instantly"

When I've had bets cancelled at CRIS before they have a messaging system. And you get a message in your inbox. e.g. bet cancelled. The ticket number shows up in your bet history and shows as no bet. For this bet there is nothing showing in my bet history. No message in the inbox. No email to me. It's like the wager never existed. The first I realized the bet had been cancelled was several hours after the wager had been made when I logged into the website because I had been using the mobile APP earlier in the day. It may have been cancelled instantly but I was not informed instantly.

I called CRIS asking them to reinstate the bet because cancelling a bet at -13.5 after the market moves to -15.5 is total bs. During these 2 calls I was not told the bets were cancelled instantly, in which case I would have ranted about why I was not informed. Instead I was told that their management can cancel any bet at any time. So if happy to make decisions like this I believe they should have no problem answering any questions here.

[aylos84]

"The OP is clearly misrepresenting the facts when he says that the reason the bet was cancelled was because the line moved to -15.5 four plus hours later. He has dealt with BetCris long enough and he knows they do not operate like that. I'm actually surprised that he misrepresented this situation like this with all the success he has had dealing with BetCris in general."

I have a good relationship with all the places I bet at and if there is a problem I will always call/ email to resolve it and only if I believe the decision is unfair will I post here. As soon as I realized the bet was cancelled I called and the tone of my complaint was "You have no right to cancel my bet -13.5 now the market is now -15.5".

I was not told "Sorry sir the bet was cancelled immediately" but instead something like "Management can cancel any wager at any time if they deem it to be a bad line" at which point I told the person on the phone I would be contacting sbr about this.

[pjesnik24]

So now sbr thinks that half a point is a bad line, wow. Good news for bookies, cancel all bets that got the better price than the closing line, that is the new industry standard promoted by the players advocate

[aylos84]

We spoke with management. The reason it hit 13.5 for 20 seconds is the OP had max bet it at 14 seconds before, and the auto line mover erroneously went in the wrong direction; so upon refresh the OP bet it again at -13.5. It was supposed to move to -14.5, where the OP later bet it again for the limit. The bet was cancelled within minutes. The poster knows how the market works, it's not a case where there is a loss of good faith or falling asleep at the wheel --- this had nothing to do with the line movement that took place hours later. It's not worth alienating a good book by doing things that can be perceived as angle shooting or taking advantage of obvious errors.

"The auto line mover erroneously went in the wrong direction." LIES. A trader (human) made the decision to go to -13.5 not the automove.

"The bet was cancelled within minutes." You are saying this. CRIS keeps saying this. I was betting all day and did not realize the wager had been cancelled until 7 hours later. There is no email from CRIS. No message from their internal mail system. The second I realized the bet had been cancelled I was so pi$$ed I called CRIS immediately and when I got the response "Our management has the right to cancel any wager at any time if they see it to be a bad line" I posted this thread about 5 minutes later. I wanted them to reinstate my bet before the game started so this thread never had to appear. If I had noticed straight away I would have posted straight away so you would have had 11 hours instead of 2 to get my bet back!

"It's not worth alienating a good book by doing things that can be perceived as angle shooting or taking advantage of obvious errors"

You're missing the key point here. Before any bets were made the market was blanket -14. I did some analysis, research, used my skill as a handicapper and took a risk. I bet CRIS, Pinny and a couple other places. Moved the market to -14.5.

Why when I was the original person to bet and move the market to -14.5, should I allow some dumbass steam chaser to steal my work and analysis and get on Cleveland -13.5 at a better price than me!

I bet $5k at -14, then $5k at -13.5 and I would have rebet another $5k at -14 if the trader had gone to this price after my -13.5 bet because I am not a fan of allowing steam chasers to jump on my hard work and analysis at better prices than me!!

It's not an angle shoot. F$!k some steam chaser getting down $5k at -13.5 when I just bet a whole bunch more than this at -14!!!!! Again I am simply protecting my work and my analysis!

[smoke a bowl]

"The OP is clearly misrepresenting the facts when he says that the reason the bet was cancelled was because the line moved to -15.5 four plus hours later. He has dealt with BetCris long enough and he knows they do not operate like that. I'm actually surprised that he misrepresented this situation like this with all the success he has had dealing with BetCris in general."

I have a good relationship with all the places I bet at and if there is a problem I will always call/ email to resolve it and only if I believe the decision is unfair will I post here. As soon as I realized the bet was cancelled I called and the tone of my complaint was "You have no right to cancel my bet -13.5 now the market is now -15.5".

I was not told "Sorry sir the bet was cancelled immediately" but instead something like "Management can cancel any wager at any time if they deem it to be a bad line" at which point I told the person on the phone I would be contacting sbr about this.

I certainly can't argue with the point that most if not all books should invest more in customer service. That's a horrible response that you were given.

[aylos84]

So there is no point in the book helping the OP here when all he was doing was taking advantage of a human error. However if a normal recreational gambler were to make the same wager the book would give him or her the benefit of the doubt. The recreational gambler gets more leeway than the pure advantage gambler just like the good customer at your bar gets more leeway than the guy that comes in for the 1st time not looking to spend any money.

You have to understand how bigger bettors think man. Pinny was -14 -110. Everybody else was -14. I bet you and pinny couple other places and move it to -14.5. You just said you would allow the bet from the recreational bettor to stand. As far as I am concerned middlers/ fiddlers/ arbers who never do any analysis or take any risk are a plague and bad for professional bettors. When you move to -13.5 and pinny is -14 -117 these are the first clowns who will be logging in to bet. Which is why I bet it within 14 seconds of my original bet. It's not taking a shot at you. It's simply protecting the value of the bets I had made 15 seconds earlier and not allowing anybody else to profit from it. Why should I allow somebody else to profit from a bet at -13.5 -110 when I was the one who created the small arbitrage 15 seconds earlier by betting Cleveland -14 -110?? Just let some clown come in and steal value that I created??

SBR / smoke a bowl I hope you can acknowledge this and stop calling me a shot taker

[smoke a bowl]

You have to understand how bigger bettors think man. Pinny was -14 -110. Everybody else was -14. I bet you and pinny couple other places and move it to -14.5. You just said you would allow the bet from the recreational bettor to stand. As far as I am concerned middlers/ fiddlers/ arbers who never do any analysis or take any risk are a plague and bad for professional bettors. When you move to -13.5 and pinny is -14 -117 these are the first clowns who will be logging in to bet. Which is why I bet it within 14 seconds of my original bet. It's not taking a shot at you. It's simply protecting the value of the bets I had made 15 seconds earlier and not allowing anybody else to profit from it. Why should I allow somebody else to profit from a bet at -13.5 -110 when I was the one who created the small arbitrage 15 seconds earlier by betting Cleveland -14 -110?? Just let some clown come in and steal value that I created??

SBR / smoke a bowl I hope you can acknowledge this and stop calling me a shot taker

Didn't mean to make it sound like i thought you were a shot taker. I do think you knew exactly what happened though and made a quick decision to bet it again which I can't blame you for when you don't have much time to make a decision on whether or not to take a good bet or not. I know all of this stuff is fine line and like I said, I don't necessarily agree with the cancellation. However I was surprised you made it out like you thought BetCris would have accepted the bet if the line had never gone to 15.5. Now thinking about it more when taking into consideration the response you got from customer service i certainly understand your reaction.

[Cookie Monster]

I think the case is clear. The human operator messed it, typed 13.5 instead of 14.5. That is the clear definition of bad line, offering a price that was not supposed to be. I know, the books usually let stand an small price difference. In this case, a full spread point is worth about 19 cents. Maybe not too much for them to cancel, but they definitely have a case. If BetCris cancelled the bet immediately (ie, not waiting to see if line moves further) I see no problem with the cancel. OTOH, BetCris was wrong by simply deleting the bet instead of the usual message (with timestamp) and showing the bet as cancelled.

The player did not anything wrong. He placed big, saw the price go in his favor and added another max bet. He does not know if someone hammered the other side, so he is not taking a shot. Placing a big bet and hoping for a human mistake it to place more would be an stupid strategy.

[TheMoneyShot]

Wow.... I'm really shocked at some of these posts.... including SBR's.

Regardless if the OP is a "professional" player or not.... and regardless if he knows BetCris's patterns after placing wagers... we are arguing over 1 full point? Are you fukking kidding me? 1 Point is a bad line? Get real.

Op hits a line at -14.... and the line should of went to -14.5 but went to -13.5 instead? That's not the bettor's problem. That's BetCris's problem.


Every poster in this forum.... knows patterns about the book that their dealing with. When you place wagers.... you get the hang of movement. That's apparent with all relations between client and book.

To me... that's not a bad line. I've seen plenty of books in my life time OFF 1 FULL POINT. The issue here is 1 FULL POINT.

Totally disagree with BetCris. They have ALWAYS WELCOMED PROFESSIONAL ACTION. But on this particular issue they don't?

Very unprofessional book and response.

[evo34]

It's simply protecting the value of the bets I had made 15 seconds earlier and not allowing anybody else to profit from it.

Absolute bullshit. "Protecting value?" You saw a bad line and you hit it immediately. You have yet to produce any evidence that the bet wasn't cancelled immediately. If it takes you 7 hours to check your bets, no one else can control that. (Personally, if I'm betting $10k into soft lines, I'm double checking everything and taking screenshots, but maybe that's me).

Of course it was shitty CS for them to not inform you. I'm not fan of Bookmaker's CS or any other book's for that matter. But everything you've said about not knowing it was a blatant error is a flat out lie.

[pjesnik24]

Absolute bullshit. "Protecting value?" You saw a bad line and you hit it immediately. You have yet to produce any evidence that the bet wasn't cancelled immediately. If it takes you 7 hours to check your bets, no one else can control that. (Personally, if I'm betting $10k into soft lines, I'm double checking everything and taking screenshots, but maybe that's me).

Of course it was shitty CS for them to not inform you. I'm not fan of Bookmaker's CS or any other book's for that matter. But everything you've said about not knowing it was a blatant error is a flat out lie.

maybe you can make a suggestion of what evidence would be acceptable by you, how can he prove that? Betcris is in wrong here and they did not provide any evidence that they cancelled the bet prior to big line movements

[jjgold]

1 point difference on 50% of college football games all the time

nba lot bigger spreads so 1 point no biggie

[smoke a bowl]

1 point difference on 50% of college football games all the time

nba lot bigger spreads so 1 point no biggie

This is a big boy thread JJ. Post a video about future SBR posting stars sir.

[evo34]

maybe you can make a suggestion of what evidence would be acceptable by you, how can he prove that? Betcris is in wrong here and they did not provide any evidence that they cancelled the bet prior to big line movements

If your claim is that a book did something blatantly fraudulent (bet cancel hours after big line move), shouldn't you post a shred a evidence that it actually occurred? Everything points to this bet having been deleted immediately and the poster realizing it very late. (The poster has yet to even deny that this happened; he simply uses the Trumpian tactic of suggesting that they might not have deleted the wager right away because he failed to check on it). Doesn't make the book look good, but makes the poster look even worse for trying to mislead people into supporting him.

[evo34]

"Why should I allow somebody else to profit from a bet at -13.5 -110 when I was the one who created the small arbitrage 15 seconds earlier by betting Cleveland -14 -110??"

How would betting big on a -14 line "create an arbitrage" by moving the line to -13.5? The *only* time this would happen at a respectable book would be a manual line moving error, which is exactly what occurred in this case. Your only valid complaint is that you were not informed immediately. The whole load of crap about you somehow deserving to take advantage of a line error because your bet is what triggered the human intervention in the first place is sad. When bad things happen to bad to people...

[TheMoneyShot]

"Why should I allow somebody else to profit from a bet at -13.5 -110 when I was the one who created the small arbitrage 15 seconds earlier by betting Cleveland -14 -110??"

How would betting big on a -14 line "create an arbitrage" by moving the line to -13.5? The *only* time this would happen at a respectable book would be a manual line moving error, which is exactly what occurred in this case. Your only valid complaint is that you were not informed immediately. The whole load of crap about you somehow deserving to take advantage of a line error because your bet is what triggered the human intervention in the first place is sad. When bad things happen to bad to people...

Even though "supposedly" it was a manual line moving error. (That's just the statement given to us by BetCris.) I'm still not 100% sure. Various reasons why a line shifts half a point.

And if a book is arguing over 1 Full point.... which is simply meaningless on a double digit spread.... shows the improper character of BetCris.

[smoke a bowl]

Even though "supposedly" it was a manual line moving error. (That's just the statement given to us by BetCris.) I'm still not 100% sure. Various reasons why a line shifts half a point.

And if a book is arguing over 1 Full point.... which is simply meaningless on a double digit spread.... shows the improper character of BetCris.

You thinking a point is meaningless on a double digit spread shows your lack of knowledge when it comes to sports gambling in general. Again I'm not saying that I agree with this cancellation but I do understand it in this instance.

[TheMoneyShot]

You thinking a point is meaningless on a double digit spread shows your lack of knowledge when it comes to sports gambling in general. Again I'm not saying that I agree with this cancellation but I do understand it in this instance.

It shows a lack of sports gambling knowledge? lol Ok guy.

Go smoke a bowl. It might help you.

[evo34]

And if a book is arguing over 1 Full point.... which is simply meaningless on a double digit spread....

I need to save this quote to use whenever I am asked why squares lose even more than expected (by the vig alone).

[mtneer1212]

I think the case is clear. The human operator messed it, typed 13.5 instead of 14.5. That is the clear definition of bad line, offering a price that was not supposed to be. I know, the books usually let stand an small price difference. In this case, a full spread point is worth about 19 cents. Maybe not too much for them to cancel, but they definitely have a case. If BetCris cancelled the bet immediately (ie, not waiting to see if line moves further) I see no problem with the cancel. OTOH, BetCris was wrong by simply deleting the bet instead of the usual message (with timestamp) and showing the bet as cancelled.

The player did not anything wrong. He placed big, saw the price go in his favor and added another max bet. He does not know if someone hammered the other side, so he is not taking a shot. Placing a big bet and hoping for a human mistake it to place more would be an stupid strategy.

Sorry, that does not constitute an obvious line error. How do I know that another big better didn't come in and punch the other side, and move the market in my favor by a half point? I don't. Voiding due to an obvious line error means having the lines reversed, or having +15 posted as a spread instead of +1.5 (missing the decimal), or something similar. It does not mean half point miscalculations and fluctuations.

[pjesnik24]

I guess SBR and few posters think that bettors should know in which the line will move so that we accidentally do not hit a wrong line by whole 0.5 (not in soccer, not even in hockey)!!!!! REmember that -14 was still available at other sportsbooks. If the guy knew where the line moves all the time he would probably be a billionaire by now just middling his 5000$ bets

[pjesnik24]

Just to correct the statement, bad line was not for whole point, it was for 1/2 point because other bookies had still -14

[pjesnik24]

I need to save this quote to use whenever I am asked why squares lose even more than expected (by the vig alone).

what he probably meant to say that the bigger the spread the cheaper the point

[dirtdog52658]

Sorry, that does not constitute an obvious line error. How do I know that another big better didn't come in and punch the other side, and move the market in my favor by a half point? I don't. Voiding due to an obvious line error means having the lines reversed, or having +15 posted as a spread instead of +1.5 (missing the decimal), or something similar. It does not mean half point miscalculations and fluctuations.

Exactly who's to say when the OP nailed -14 and moved it -14-126 someone else did not come in and take the +14 forcing the move to 13.5. I've seen the OP post on other issues vs Betcris that I agreed with Betcris's position, but in this case they are completely wrong. This is the furthest thing from an obvious line error and needs to be eaten on their end, by far the saddest bookmaking I've ever seen.

[dhristov211]

pinnacle never would do this

[pjesnik24]

Sbr confirms in this thread that if a sportsbook "where the line originates" has a half point difference than other bookies that mostly just follow them or pinnacle that can be declared a bad line. To simplify it, SBR concludes in this thread that everything can be declared a bad line

[pjesnik24]

I would like to bet the game houston-phoenix tonight. 1bet has +12 at +112 while pinnacle has -12 at -112. Could SBR please confirm which is a correct line if any here so that I can safely make my bet, thx.

[dhristov211]

lol

[phil_abuster]

i do have to aqgree here.
Cris should eat their own error on that one -- that is *IF* it was an error.
ok, so i am still feeling my way thru this but if a guy throws down a large bet (5k) on -14 and that causes a book to move its line to -14.5, ok, i get that. but how does anyone know if maybe some guy (or 2) had at that very same moment bet heavily on the +14 underdog ?? surely people bet on the dogs too, yes?!? wouldnt that large underdog bet(s) at the same time have at least momentarily caused the line to DROP to -13.5 ?!??! im saying we don't know it was a human trader error (ie. "bad line"). maybe it wasnt!! maybe it was caused by a dog bet! maybe they saw the moves quickly turn onto the fav and wanted to cancel a wager by a pro bettor who they felt was getting too good of a deal (2 heavy bets at a cheap price on the fav) but they are covering it up by claiming it was a "bad line"