I agree with you that not telling customers is wrong, but fees were still in place before that weren't they? Only 1 free withdrawal per month? It should be challenged, but my main issue is the concern of the OP about pinnacle - being that dubious about a book (firstly why deposit in the first place). If the book were to go bust, all the hassle of saving £1000 when you could pay and withdraw or risk losing everything.
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Fees were only in place if you asked for a second or subsequent withdrawal in a calendar month. And I think that was only a flat $15, not a percentage of your withdrawal. I always managed to work with that by not requesting more than a single withdrawal.
I am not aware that the OP had any concerns about the financial viability of Pinnacle before making his deposits.
And at this stage I don't have any serious concerns on that front either, but this sort of behaviour does make one wonder what's going on in their thinking.Comment -
Did a 5 figure payout, paid within an hour. So seems like business as usual. 5 time rollover sucks but their upfront about it( they should allow anyone who deposited before the change to payout after 1 time my opinion.), I guess their sick of paying processing fees or are trying to get rid of people who arb for a living and don't have a bankroll to let money sit. For the average guy who will bet every night for a week or 2 only deposit what your going to bet on your first nights games and you should be alright. Its not like there are 100's of reliable options out there.Comment -
I would imagine that with the prices offered by pinnacle and the type of players they attract, it must cost them a large amount of money processing transactions. It will cost them money to both send and receive payments. By reducing that, it will save them a lot of money. Debit / *********** payments are between 2.5% and 3.5% for a business to receive. I would imagine it maybe similar to send payments back. Looking at this OPs fee of £1000 @ 3% for 1 transaction, the amount pinnacle must pay in card fees must be phenomenalComment -
They probably pay closer to the 1.5 to 2% area, you can grab lower percentages if your volume is big enough. But non the less they do have fees to pay on these transactions, they are trying to reduce the number of 1 and dones they get and create a more loyal customer base I think. It sucks but this has always been the safest place to have a balance I got my payout today without issues.Comment -
No doubt it is a cost which they and all betting agencies have to bear. That is why they all (until now) required you to turn it over once in full before withdrawing. That is reasonable and factored into their business model and margins. Five times isn't.
A 3% withdrawal charge will obliterate their low juice advantage, particularly when compared to Matchbook and for those not paying top commission rates at Betfair.Comment -
It won't necessarily obliterate their low juice advantage, it will still be worth it for regulars who leave money in there. Like dirtdog said above, it's probably to stop people going in and out, but then after what happened with Canbet, globet etc. Depositing, betting and then immediately withdrawing must be on the increase regardless of how highly rated a bookie isComment -
If you place a $5 future and lose the rest, the deposit still won't be zeroed until the future is graded.
That part is 'standard' across bookies that have rules like this.
Sucking people into this rollover conundrum who are not even taking a bonus seems unreasonable though.
I think they mean 5x for a free cashout, and 1x before you can make any cashout..Comment -
At the end of the day it is just the logical consequence of massive abusing of the cashback promotions skrill and neteller were running. Greed eats brain. A lot of guys just think in short-term maximizing their profits without reconsider the consequences. Well now you got your "fukk you" from pinnacle.Comment -
Pinny was always excluded from skrill cashback promotions so no much 'abuse' here.Comment -
From pinnacle
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Please Note
Pinnacle Sports make every effort to ensure our payment processing rules strike a balance between being fair to you the customer, and free of fees, while also enabling us to keep offering the best value odds online. Whenever possible we absorb transaction fees, however failure to meet our industry standard deposit roll-over threshold (five times deposit amount) will incur a 3% processing fee on the deposit and any applicable withdrawal fee.
Clients who do not use our account to account transfer option receive one free withdrawal per calendar month. All additional withdrawals during the calendar month, for any amount using any withdrawal method, incur a fee.
Please see the Payment Options pages of the site for more information on fees.
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Is this new, i didnt see it yesterday if I remember... Its a little bit better but still unacceptableLast edited by SBRAdmin3; 07-03-14, 10:50 AM.Comment -
Doesn't clarify the method of calculating required rollover when a previous deposit is partially but not wholly lost.
Doesn't state the date of application of the new requirement. Nor why we weren't told about it.
I'd never have deposited last week had I known about it.Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 07-03-14, 10:50 AM.Comment -
So now it is 3% fee on the deposit and not on the whole withdrawl if you havent met the rollover? Seems to me pinnacle is getting confused about their own new rule invention.Comment -
You guys need to relax. Pinnacle is #1 for a reason. If u don't want to rollover 5x than pay the 3%.. Don't wanna do that? Go and have fun betting $3.65 at other books.Comment -
Silly response!
They have been the best but this move now puts them clearly behind Matchbook in particular and Betfair for those not on the top level of commission.
But worst of all they failed to communicate the change in rules to customers ahead of implementing it and details still have yet to be communicated. That's stuff you expect only from scum bookies, certainly not AAA+ bookmakers.Comment -
"our industry standard deposit roll-over threshold (five times deposit amount)"
LOL Which industry is that?Comment -
No one from Europe is going to play there now. Sucks reallyComment -
I said much earlier that they are close to closing. Of course everyone says I am nuts. But give them one year and see if they are still around. Where do they get customers from now? No US. No one with half a brain in Europe will bother with these clowns when they can bet and collect effortlessly with no fees.Comment -
WSEX was the best at one time also.Comment -
you are straight up a piece of shit....in no way should anyone think this is at all acceptable, especially considering the OP likes to have decent sized wagers, it would seem pinnacle are definitely having issues if they are having to resort to making money this way....the way i see it they are just shooting themselves in the foot.....Comment -
It is not that they are trying to make money this way. It is their object to keep people from withdrawing money. This way they can use the post ups to operate. Every book that went under did the same. And a lot of books that did not fold still use the customer's money for operational expenses.Comment -
What makes you so sure?
Why not a push to lower the percentage of sharp money betting with them?
Or a bean counter who sees way too many costs of servicing the small timers who feel the need to withdraw and deposit every week.
Could be an angle to get rid of arbers.
Could easily be a simple push to increase profits rather than some panic move to save the business..Comment -
Then you've probably been this dumb for a long time too then. --> "Since when do you increase profits when you decrease volume".
Go ahead. Keep screaming the sky is falling. Could not possibly be anything else. You've been doing it too long to be wrong.
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I agree that this rule is terrible, and they increased to 5 times without telling anyone. I rememeber when I opened my account it was only 1x.I deposited yesterday at pinnaclesports and placed some bets. Unfortunately almost all lost so i deposited again today. Thinking about their rule that you need to rollover your deposit before being able to withdraw i deposited exactly amounts that i wanted to stake ( bet were not all placed at same time,around 30 minutes difference beetwen each bet ) So i rolloed over all my balance actually. All the bets won so i ended up with a nice balance there and decided to withdraw to make a pause. Now i received an email by pinnaclesports that i have to rollover my deposits 5 times
before being able to withdraw without fees. This is completely unbeliaveble.This is my first withdrawal for this month and they want me to pay the withdrawal fee (12 euros ) + 3% of my withdrawal amount as a fee if i want to procces the transaction(the fee should be more than 500 euros according to my balance). This is their email :
Dear Pinnacle Sports Client,
Your withdrawal request was declined. The reason we declined your withdrawal is you made a deposit and are now requesting a withdrawal without rolling (wagering) your deposit the minimum stated on our site, five times.
Please refer to our General Rule 30 where we include information regarding fees that may apply to customer deposits and withdrawals, including that deposits made to an account without rolling the deposit one time will incur both withdrawal and processing fees.
In accordance with our policies, if you proceed with the withdrawal, your account will be charged the standard withdrawal fee. The fee is based on the withdrawal option selected. For the amount of your fee, please review the Payment Options section for your currency.
In addition to the withdrawal fee, you will also be charged a processing fee of 3%.
If you choose to proceed, and accept the fees, please advise our Customer Service Department at csd@pinnaclesports.com.
Kind regards,
Customer Service Department
Pinnacle Sports
EVEN INTERWETEN TAKES 2% FOR WITHDRAWALS PINNACLESPORTS.....TRY TO COMPETE WITH THEM! JOKE!
I suggest you to bet on huge favorites (like tennis 1round) to complete the rollover with little risk.Last edited by SBRAdmin3; 07-03-14, 10:50 AM.Comment -
No book rated A (or B for that matter) has a 5x rollover requirement on deposits.
Pinny (as much as I love them) needs to be downgraded to C or D.Comment -
Folks,
We have a meeting with Pinnacle mgt tomorrow morning for clarification on new deposit rules. We understand a cleaner outline and FAQ will be published then too.
What I can see from their new rules...
- It does not apply unless your deposit was made after the start of this month.
- If you were to deposit $100 and bet $500 there is no 3% fee to withdraw.
- If you deposit $100 and win $10,000 there is no fee to withdraw that $10,000. It's 3% of the deposited $100 ONLY if you didn't bet that original $100 5x for $500 wagered.
- If you lose the deposit, it does not have to be rolled over. Deposit $100 today and lose it, then deposit $100, wager it and win, you only need to roll that 2nd $100 four more times. (If you won $100,000 from the very first bet, you can take that now w/o 3% fee)
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good point,,if you bet 250 k on the superbolw and win ,you should be able to withdraw your money,Comment
