Shooting at Elementary School in Texas

[guitarjosh]

Im sure it was just as traumatic as if 21 GOP senators had been murdered

Go ahead and prove that the GOP would ban certain guns if 21 were gunned down.

[pavyracer]

How many murders in Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore are committed with AR-15s every year?

I bet the numbers are in the 1% or less range.


It's easier to walk up and kill someone with a 9mm Ruger than it is with an AR-15.

You still haven't answered what will you use an AR-15 for as a civilian. Defend your home or shoot turkeys?

[pavyracer]

It's easier to spot and be very concerned when a weird looking guy is walking near a school carrying a black AR-15 than it is that same weirdo who has 4 handguns and numerous magazines concealed on their person.

So what are you suggesting here. All future mass murderers should be given AR-15s with no qeustions asked so they can be spotted easier before they mass murder people?

Do you know that it is legal with current laws to walk down the street with an AR-15? So what will the police do if someone is walking with an AR-15 that he bought at 17 years old without a backround check but legally? They can't do anything to him. Right now it is not illegal to walk with an AR-15 down the street.

[Mac4Lyfe]

You mean like what happened in 2017 to the GOP baseball practice?

Fortunately, no one died from that incident. If 20 congressman were gunned down like at this school, you better believe we would have seen change.

[pavyracer]

They were taking fire from a deranged democrat firing an AK-47. The House Majority Whip was in the hospital for months. I'm sure it just wasn't traumatic enough.

If he had an AK-47 all 21 senators would have all been dead.

He had an SKS which was a Soviet World War II rifle that fired one shot at a time.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Yeah, the problem is that those neighboring states don't have the homicide problems found in Chicago.

Why are you guys so misinformed? Do you do ANY research? Do you validate what you post. Let's see some surrounding states around Illinois. St. Louis for instance is 3x more murder rate than Chicago. Chicago is 28th. Why do you guys keep using Chicago as if that should be a good reason to NOT have sensible gun laws? Shouldn't it be the exact opposite??

1. St. Louis, Missouri

With 64.54 murders per 100,000 residents, St. Louis had the highest murder rate for any major American city in 2019.

4. Detroit, Michigan

The murder rate in Detroit is 41.45 per 100,000 residents.
In 2019, 275 people were murdered in that city.

5. Dayton, Ohio

The murder rate in Dayton is 34.18 per 100,000. That number spiked nearly 7.8 per 100,000 residents from 2018 to 2019.
8. Kansas City, Missouri

The murder rate in Kansas City is 29.88 per 100,000.
15. Peoria, Illinois

The murder rate in Peoria is 22.53 per 100,000.
19. Cincinnati, Ohio

The murder rate in Cincinnati is 21.1 per 100,000. The murder rate increased in the city by 2.2 per 100,000 from 2018 to 2019.
23. Indianapolis, Indiana

In 2019, the murder rate in Indianapolis was 19.51 per 100,000.


28. Chicago, Illinois

The murder rate in Chicago is 18.26 per 100,000.

[guitarjosh]

Fortunately, no one died from that incident. If 20 congressman were gunned down like at this school, you better believe we would have seen change.

Prove it.

If he had an AK-47 all 21 senators would have all been dead.

He had an SKS which was a Soviet World War II rifle that fired one shot at a time.

SKS are semi Auto. The secret service wrote that he fired 70 rounds from a 9mm and SKS, although I can't find the breakdown, and a CNN link says it isn't clear if he even fired the 9mm. So he fired up to 70 rounds from a rifle that uses the same ammo as an AK47. Go ahead and prove that all the people would have been there if he would have had an AK47.

https://www.secretservice.gov/sites/default/files/reports/2020-06/Hodgkinson.pdf

https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/15/news/sks-rifle-gop-baseball-field-attack/index.html

[Mac4Lyfe]

Need better mental health checks and I'm in favor of restricting gun laws further to those with shady histories or mad violent rambles on social media. 21 and older sounds good to me also just like alcohol sales and gun sales. That's as far as I'd tweak the 2nd amendment though.

Bottom line is you need to beef up security in schools and soft targets in society because guns are never going away in America. That's the only way to help stop mass shootings and limit people getting shot.

My two cents on this subject!

These are all good points Jibbby. Bravo

What do you think about limiting gun manufacturers from pumping out guns like Pez dispensers? Do we really need so many guns? How about stop them from making so many? You agree?

[guitarjosh]

Why are you guys so misinformed? Do you do ANY research? Do you validate what you post. Let's see some surrounding states around Illinois. St. Louis for instance is 3x more murder rate than Chicago. Chicago is 28th. Why do you guys keep using Chicago as if that should be a good reason to NOT have sensible gun laws? Shouldn't it be the exact opposite??

1. St. Louis, Missouri

[FONT="]With 64.54 murders per 100,000 residents, St. Louis had the highest murder rate for any major American city in 2019.

[/FONT]4. Detroit, Michigan

[FONT="]The murder rate in Detroit is 41.45 per 100,000 residents. [/FONT]
[FONT="]In 2019, 275 people were murdered in that city.
[/FONT]
5. Dayton, Ohio

[FONT="]The murder rate in Dayton is 34.18 per 100,000. That number spiked nearly 7.8 per 100,000 residents from 2018 to 2019.
[/FONT]8. Kansas City, Missouri

[FONT="]The murder rate in Kansas City is 29.88 per 100,000.
[/FONT]15. Peoria, Illinois

[FONT="]The murder rate in Peoria is 22.53 per 100,000.
[/FONT]19. Cincinnati, Ohio

[FONT="]The murder rate in Cincinnati is 21.1 per 100,000. The murder rate increased in the city by 2.2 per 100,000 from 2018 to 2019.
[/FONT]23. Indianapolis, Indiana

[FONT="]In 2019, the murder rate in Indianapolis was 19.51 per 100,000.


[/FONT]28. Chicago, Illinois

The murder rate in Chicago is 18.26 per 100,000.

Use a little bit of common sense. Are the gun laws in Peoria Illinois the same as in Chicago? If your argument is that Chicago isn't on an island and people can just drive out of Chicago to buy a gun, why don't those towns have the gun problems that Chicago does? Because the problem is the people, not the lax gun laws.

[Mac4Lyfe]

How many murders in Chicago, Detroit, and Baltimore are committed with AR-15s every year?
I bet the numbers are in the 1% or less range.
It's easier to walk up and kill someone with a 9mm Ruger than it is with an AR-15.

I'm not sure how many but I heard gang bangers are using assault rifles a lot more than pistols. But I don't have any data on that. It's a good question.

But bottom line, a guy using a 9mm is usually not trained well enough to mow down dozens of people in under a minute. But that same novice can do it with an AR. That's the difference. We have to push gun manufacturers to reduce mag sizes IMO.

That is only because the media made the AR-15 the sexy weapon of choice. It much much easier to walk around with numerous handguns concealed on your person than it is an AR-15. And you can deal some serious damage in a room full of people with twin Glocks.
Hopefully these new age emo retards don't pick up on this.
There have been numerous kids that have been recently busted with AR-15s in their vehicles(or homes) that may or may not have been planning on pulling another school shooting, but red flags led to them.

Of course if we ban AR15's, idiots will just go to the next death machine. But you have to start somewhere don't you? They are only using what they know and can get their hands on easily. I'm starting to lean more at restricting guns for under 21 and possibly 25. It seems as if most of these shootings are kids from 15 to 19 or so. But not sure about that either???

[Mac4Lyfe]

Go ahead and prove that the GOP would ban certain guns if 21 were gunned down.

If 21 GOP'ers were gunned down, they couldn't vote and the Dems would have significant control to pass whatever legislation they wanted. Maybe that's what that crazy fukk wanted to do in the first place. Shift the balance???

[guitarjosh]

If 21 GOP'ers were gunned down, they couldn't vote and the Dems would have significant control to pass whatever legislation they wanted. Maybe that's what that crazy fukk wanted to do in the first place. Shift the balance???

Are you talking about that particular incident or what would happen if something like that happened right now? In 2017 the GOP had the House and Presidency, it wouldn't have gotten pushed through.

I would hope the democrats wouldn't be that short sighted if that happened this weekend. If all it takes to ram your agenda through is one nutjob killing 21 senators, then it's inevitable that it would happen to the democrats in the future. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they would.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Use a little bit of common sense. Are the gun laws in Peoria Illinois the same as in Chicago? If your argument is that Chicago isn't on an island and people can just drive out of Chicago to buy a gun, why don't those towns have the gun problems that Chicago does? Because the problem is the people, not the lax gun laws.

My argument is that Chicago is a different problem than these school shootings. So is St. Louis. So why use these inner city drug turf shootings as an example for how or how not to stop school shootings? Gun Laws mean nothing if people can still get easy access to guns. Whether they drive 10 miles across state lines or have their cousin buy and ship a gun to them from 10 states over? You cannot have strong gun laws in Baton Rouge, LA but have none in Houston, TX. People will just buy their guns in Houston.

You can point to the problem being the people all you want but NO OTHER TOP TIERED COUNTRY in the world has this problem. Do you really think people in the US are that much different than in Canada? Do you really think people in Canada don't use social media, have mental health problems, etc.?



Let me ask you a simple question. If I am in a school playground with 100 kids and there's ZERO guns. What is the chance of a kid being shot by a gun in that setting???

Now, what if I give 10 kids guns. What is the chance that a kid could get shot by a gun? Would you agree that there's a chance that someone might get shot?

Finally, let's say I gave all 100 kids guns. What is the chance of a kid being shot? How about 10 kids or more? Would you agree that the chances of a kid getting shot is much more with 100 kids having guns versus NO KIDS having a gun?

This is not rocket science. More guns mean more people shot by guns. It really is not a problem with people. People are the same since Adam and Eve. If Cain had a gun, he would have most certainly used it to kill Abel. The clear problem is that we have TOO MANY GUNS in this country. Why you can't admit that is very strange. You don't believe that? Then give your guns to your little kids and let's see what happens.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Are you talking about that particular incident or what would happen if something like that happened right now? In 2017 the GOP had the House and Presidency, it wouldn't have gotten pushed through.

I would hope the democrats wouldn't be that short sighted if that happened this weekend. If all it takes to ram your agenda through is one nutjob killing 21 senators, then it's inevitable that it would happen to the democrats in the future. Just because they can do something doesn't mean they would.

My point is that both parties are more interested in special interest groups and lobbyist. The Republicans have been paid off by the NRA for decades. It has gotten to the point where it is ridiculous. Yes, the Dems have their vices too. Too many for me to get into. But the Republicans have to eventually make a choice. Do they finally have enough and push back on the NRA selling death weapons that are killing our citizens? Or will they continue to make excuses, give thoughts and prayers but do nothing about this epidemic??? I am fed up. I personally will never vote for anyone that takes NRA money. I can at least start by doing my part. I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Vote these people out of office until we get folks with a spine. Gov Abbott is personally responsible for the last 3 mass shootings here. How the fukk do you allow people, especially young men to buy guns without a license, without training, without background checks, without a health/mental welfare check? WTF was he thinking?? He'll never get my vote again.

[stake1]

Have they released the final ammo totals yet?

[Mac4Lyfe]

Have they released the final ammo totals yet?

Stake - they can't even identify many of the bodies. They were all shot to shreds. Couldn't even identify their clothes or shoes or teeth. The scene was so horrific, they couldn't allow parents to go in there because it was nothing but blood and guts. The ammo totals are going to be astronomical. Totally senseless. How does someone shoot little kids like this? How do you just mutilate little kids like this? People are unwell. They are sick. They are twisted. And we let these very sick people get access to guns. Any gun.

[guitarjosh]

My argument is that Chicago is a different problem than these school shootings. So is St. Louis. So why use these inner city drug turf shootings as an example for how or how not to stop school shootings?

Because we're talking about how impactful gun laws are in reducing gun deaths.

Gun Laws mean nothing if people can still get easy access to guns. Whether they drive 10 miles across state lines or have their cousin buy and ship a gun to them from 10 states over? You cannot have strong gun laws in Baton Rouge, LA but have none in Houston, TX. People will just buy their guns in Houston.

And it's already illegal to use straw buyers, but that doesn't stop people.

You can point to the problem being the people all you want but NO OTHER TOP TIERED COUNTRY in the world has this problem. Do you really think people in the US are that much different than in Canada? Do you really think people in Canada don't use social media, have mental health problems, etc.?

I do think that. Do you think that the people living in South Chicago are much like people living in the outskirts of Branson Missouri, and they're like people living on an Indian Reservation in Arizona?

Let me ask you a simple question. If I am in a school playground with 100 kids and there's ZERO guns. What is the chance of a kid being shot by a gun in that setting???

Now, what if I give 10 kids guns. What is the chance that a kid could get shot by a gun? Would you agree that there's a chance that someone might get shot?

Finally, let's say I gave all 100 kids guns. What is the chance of a kid being shot? How about 10 kids or more? Would you agree that the chances of a kid getting shot is much more with 100 kids having guns versus NO KIDS having a gun?

This is not rocket science. More guns mean more people shot by guns. It really is not a problem with people. People are the same since Adam and Eve. If Cain had a gun, he would have most certainly used it to kill Abel. The clear problem is that we have TOO MANY GUNS in this country. Why you can't admit that is very strange. You don't believe that? Then give your guns to your little kids and let's see what happens.

You're talking about young children, who aren't allowed to buy guns. The Amish are allowed to buy guns. If we took 100 of them and gave them all a gun, how many homicides would we have? Probably zero.


Let me just ask you a question: What are you trying to accomplish banning AR-15s and similar guns? Those are less than 5% of the gun homicides in a typical year, and that's assuming if someone can't get their hands on an AR-15, they won't just get a legal gun and commit a mass shooting. By your own admission, "Of course if we ban AR15's, idiots will just go to the next death machine. But you have to start somewhere don't you?" The left will just keep banning and banning and banning until only the lowest common denominator has a gun, and the rest of us are at their mercy.

[guitarjosh]

My point is that both parties are more interested in special interest groups and lobbyist. The Republicans have been paid off by the NRA for decades. It has gotten to the point where it is ridiculous. Yes, the Dems have their vices too. Too many for me to get into. But the Republicans have to eventually make a choice. Do they finally have enough and push back on the NRA selling death weapons that are killing our citizens? Or will they continue to make excuses, give thoughts and prayers but do nothing about this epidemic??? I am fed up. I personally will never vote for anyone that takes NRA money. I can at least start by doing my part. I know a lot of people that feel the same way. Vote these people out of office until we get folks with a spine. Gov Abbott is personally responsible for the last 3 mass shootings here. How the fukk do you allow people, especially young men to buy guns without a license, without training, without background checks, without a health/mental welfare check? WTF was he thinking?? He'll never get my vote again.

Again, let's use some common sense. If the GOP is just doing what the gun lobby wants because they're getting paid, have the anti gunners like billionaire Mike Bloomberg pay them more.

[Mac4Lyfe]

You're talking about young children, who aren't allowed to buy guns. The Amish are allowed to buy guns. If we took 100 of them and gave them all a gun, how many homicides would we have? Probably zero.
Let me just ask you a question: What are you trying to accomplish banning AR-15s and similar guns? Those are less than 5% of the gun homicides in a typical year, and that's assuming if someone can't get their hands on an AR-15, they won't just get a legal gun and commit a mass shooting. By your own admission, "Of course if we ban AR15's, idiots will just go to the next death machine. But you have to start somewhere don't you?" The left will just keep banning and banning and banning until only the lowest common denominator has a gun, and the rest of us are at their mercy.

Amish people believe in non violence and passive resistance like MLK did. They do not believe in high powered weaponry. Most do not own guns and those that do own long guns strictly for hunting. If Amish people were like the Hatfield and McCoy's fighting over territory, there would be carnage in those communities as well. They had tragedy hit them 15 years ago when that crazy guy went into their school and murdered the young girls.
If we used that same example with Amish kids, I believe about the same number of kids would be shot in that same scenario. Kids are kids. Boys are boys. It's the easy access that has made this a problem. If gang bangers in inner cities never had access to guns they would have had to fight turf battles with dildos or brooms. They only know what they have and you better believe there is a system to get those guns to those inner cities. It's not an accident or coincidence.

You admit that children shouldn't be allowed to buy guns. Why? Because you know like I know that young people are not all there yet. So should we allow 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 year olds to purchase guns? Where do we draw the line? Why not increase the age limit to 21? 25?

I'm not for banning all guns. I'd like to get rid of so many guns in circulation and I'd like to limit gun manufacturers from making so many guns. Start with high powered, high mag guns then work your way down. You already have a gun... great. But why would I want these 18 year old boys to get easy access to guns too? No way. Stop selling them, especially to that group. Might solve these school shootings and maybe reduce shooting in the inner cities although that's a different problem.

I do not think the left is intent on getting your gun. I have not heard any of those politicians say ban all guns. I'm kinda to that point though. Not people that currently have guns but let's put a 10 year ban on any new guns. Screw these manufacturers like they're screwing this country. Go peddle their death weapons to some other country.

[Mac4Lyfe]

Again, let's use some common sense. If the GOP is just doing what the gun lobby wants because they're getting paid, have the anti gunners like billionaire Mike Bloomberg pay them more.

I wish we had laws in place where congress could not take a dime of lobbyist, special interest money. They should not be able to earn nothing more than their annual salary. Then we'll see who really wants to run for office to make a difference vs all these fukks that only run for the money and the power. All of them are corrupt, both parties. It's all about the dollar. They don't care about us or our kids.


This shooters mother just gave the weirdest comments I've ever heard. WTH? She said she has no words, she didn't know what he was thinking but he had his reasons for doing what he did but please don't judge him. I only want the innocent children who died to forgive me. What do you tell their families. Forgive me, forgive my son, I know he had his reasons. What reasons did he have? To get closer to those children instead of paying attention to the other bad things. I have no words, I don't know.

Someone was translating and maybe they misconstrued some words but to say he had his reasons for killing those kids? Don't judge him? Forgive me, I know he had his reasons???

[TheMoneyShot]

The fighting back and forth on this??? It's one of those things in which it's always going to happen. We hope it doesn't happen.

You're trying to analyze what a psychopath is thinking about when he feels his life is bearing down on him? You'll never find a logical answer or explanation. A psychiatrist with open arms would say... bring him to me. A spiritual person with open arms would say... bring him to me. Both answers could be right... they also could be wrong.

It's not uncommon for a human being to feel powerful.... and rageful picking on someone younger in size..... likewise... the same could be said for a human abusing an animal of a smaller size.

Banning guns is the most comical and ridiculous thing to do.

Even if you set up guards at a school... let's be even more reasonable... 1 guard to every school. Do you think that guard would be 100% focused and alert? Like a Robocop? lol Everyone makes errors in the workforce... people also study patterns. If a high school student wants to send a message across..... guard or no guard.... he's going to do it. That's not going to detour anything.

[Jayvegas420]

More american children were killed at school this year than all american service members combined. Congratulations USA....Afghanistan is safer than your schools

[BOA12]

More american children were killed at school this year than all american service members combined. Congratulations USA....Afghanistan is safer than your schools

Add this as another W contribution. And Medicare Advantage. And a Privatized War On Terror. The Southern Strategy's Greatest Tragedy.

[manny24]

Dude you have no fukking life at all. Is there ANYTHING that anyone says here that you can agree with one iota? It's hilarious reading you reply to every single post you don't agree with with answers you can tell you pull right out of your ass. Reading you go postal on everyone comes off like you wrote a paper in college about gun control and are just spouting off all of the stats you cited. Even posts that you begrudgingly agree with, you still find a way to insult the poster. I can tell just by the way you talk to people that you're about 1/10 as smart as you think you are. Ironically, I just wasted three minutes of my life typing this fully aware that you are just going to turn around and call me a dumbass in ten different ways. At least I can admit that I am fallible and not a know it all little asshole like you. Get a fukking job man.

Mac is like player's talk amber heard with an eating disorder

mostly lies and made up scenarios with a bucket of chicken wings hanging from his neck at all times

[TheMoneyShot]

Mac is like player's talk amber heard with an eating disorder

mostly lies and made up scenarios with a bucket of chicken wings hanging from his neck at all times

sometimes you have to say to yourself... am I dreaming?? When you read any response from MAC. lol it's like.... who is this guy? Did he get dropped on his head when he was little?

[Crusherrr]

It's clear we need to do something. We can't have kids get slaughtered in our schools like this time and time again. Or people shopping for groceries at the store, or people going to the movie theater. It's got to stop and both parties need to figure something out here. Other countries don't have these problems. They don't have mental health issues, too? Enough is enough.



Problem is we have hundreds of millions of guns. So we are probably never going to see any change in our lifetime.

[Chi_archie]

Yeah, the problem is that those neighboring states don't have the homicide problems found in Chicago.

I think the majority of neighboring states have a city with worse murder per capita most years.

think flint, gary, south bend, milwaukee, st. louis, KC ect.

Iowa would be the only state that doesn't have a city with very similar murder rates.

I don't think gun laws are near the top in the MANY variables with inner city gang crime

but why does everyone think Chicago gun laws are so strict. I got my guns about a decade ago shortly after they changed some laws.

Have they made the laws more strict again?

[TheMoneyShot]

It's clear we need to do something. We can't have kids get slaughtered in our schools like this time and time again. Or people shopping for groceries at the store, or people going to the movie theater. It's got to stop and both parties need to figure something out here. Other countries don't have these problems. They don't have mental health issues, too? Enough is enough.



Problem is we have hundreds of millions of guns. So we are probably never going to see any change in our lifetime.

What have we done to prevent these incidents at a movie theater? A security guard and a metal detector will stop it? Just use the backdoor in the alley. Again, it's very tragic... but there's nothing that can stop a maniac.

What I've found interesting.... why hasn't this happened at a college football stadium? College basketball arena?? Pro football stadium? How come no one has ever tried? Kind of mind boggling. What's really holding someone back? Yet... they will pick on a high school... or an elementary school. It could happen anywhere at any time.... there's nothing you can do to stop it.

If there really was a way to stop it... a plan would have been put in effect 10 years ago.

[Chi_archie]

What I've found interesting.... why hasn't this happened at a college football stadium? College basketball arena?? Pro football stadium? How come no one has ever tried?.

good question. It does seem that people have tried or plotted. but been thwarted. Wasn't there a dude at the all star game plotting a big thing a few years back that was arrested?

biggest reason would prob be motive right?

typically with a mass spree shooting. there is anger+mental instability= a target. So with schools we have the bullied kids that hate their high school experience and want revenge. or we have a person that hates gays, christians, muslims, blacks, republican baseball players.

a sports game would be more random targets.

Opportunity. Only so many big games in stadiums. whereas a school or grocery store is basically everyday for many many hours.

we don't have to talk the differences in security and proximity of actual law enforcement.

but yeah if someone wanted to just kill randomly to see what kind of body count they could stack up, and hated all people equally. a world series celebration parade would be best.

we don't see that kind of terrorism/hate as much though unless it's foreign, and those tend to be bombs, airplanes, jewish space laser

Did we ever get a real motive on the Vegas concert shooting false flag operation?

[Rich Boy]

Solution is easy, move to Canada, never heard of a school shooting here.

[pavyracer]

Solution is easy, move to Canada, never heard of a school shooting here.

Every country that has good Healthcare and no guns given to idiots is not having mass murders. Proven over and over again.

[TheMoneyShot]

biggest reason would prob be motive right?

typically with a mass spree shooting. there is anger+mental instability= a target. So with schools we have the bullied kids that hate their high school experience and want revenge. or we have a person that hates gays, christians, muslims, blacks, republican baseball players.

a sports game would be more random targets.

Did we ever get a real motive on the Vegas concert shooting false flag operation?

I agree with you 100% Archie. Clearly someone was bullied. Any kind of school represents what that person went through. It's sad that innocent children lost their lives.... were never given a chance to grow up and experience a fulfilled life.

That Vegas situation was terrible too. If it was a false flag.... that was very extreme. I haven't been to Vegas since the incident... did hotels install body scanners? I wouldn't know. That entire Vegas situation was well thought out.... even for just a regular Joe. Seems like he needed plenty of "inside" help.

[JIBBBY]

As long as schools in America continue to be soft targets these shootings aren't going away!

[risKingDigits]

NPR radio is suggesting this was a race motivated killing. How clueless do you have to be to comprehend, the gunman (not white) lived in a community that 80% identify as Hispanic or Latino. It’s called demographics. He didn’t seek out a region or people that were different then his environment. It was a crime of rage not targeting.

The article was grasping at similarities between this and Buffalo. Of course they make a point to state the shooter in Buffalo was white but say nothing about the ethnicity of the Uvalde. shooter.

[manny24]

coroner reporting shooter was a covid death